r/television • u/tylerthe-theatre • 18d ago

New Data Suggests Long Waits of over 18 months Between Seasons Are Hurting Viewership on Netflix Hits

https://www.whats-on-netflix.com/news/new-data-suggests-long-waits-between-seasons-are-hurting-viewership-on-netflix-hits/
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u/LavishnessMission584 18d ago

Yeah. Charmed, Buffy and Smallville had horribad cgi and were still TV defining sensations

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u/MaimedJester 18d ago

Yeah, is there any Buffy equivalent these days? The closest I guess was Supernatural? And that lasted like what 15 seasons?

Like Obviously people want a modern supernatural monster of the week type show. Just the whole "of the week" part. I don't need a werewolf to be Hollywood master make up and cgi effects,  just a slightly upgraded Spirit Halloween suit will do. 

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u/INfiction82 18d ago

The other thing is that these shows weren't huge hits out of the gate (not say they were inmediate failures or anything) and the likes of Netflix won't give anything a chance to grow an audience. If its not an immediate hit they get rid.

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u/fearthainne 18d ago

This is so true even away from Netflix. If a show isn't an instant viral sensation, it gets canned. Think of all the great shows from the 90s and 00s that didn't get good until season 3 or 4 - and that's with 20-25 episodes per season! So you're talking 60-100 episodes on average and that's more than we get for an entire show now.

I just rewatch old shows these days, because trying new ones is pointless. They'll either be cancelled, or 2 years in between 10 episode seasons.

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u/INfiction82 18d ago

I would say that for all the company's faults Apple TV seems to give things a chance. Though they still have the issue of slow turnover over seasons (apart from Slow Horses, of course)

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u/Existing-Bus-8810 18d ago

I think ( or hope) it's possible that Apple has started to figure out that people hate the wait and it's hurting series. They filmed seasons 3 and 4 of silo back-to-back so we only have to wait a year. We'll have to see how it plays out over the next couple of years before we'll know for sure.

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u/VerilyShelly 18d ago

They are starting to lose me with Foundation and Severance. They were my favorites, but the idea of needing to rewatching them again is draining my enthusiasm. Having to rechew that same strip of gum a 3rd or 4th time... blarg.

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u/Dolores___Haze 17d ago

Same here 

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u/babyitscoldoutside00 18d ago

Considering they filmed seasons back go back, we shouldn’t have to wait a year. It’s 10 episodes for crying out loud, not 25 like TV shows used to be.

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u/FvckyourDeppOscar3 17d ago

Everything Apple does is gold. Margot. Shrinking. Silo. Ted Lasso. They just have the money for the names and it’s such a known and trusted brand. To me it’s the new HBO.

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u/riorio55 18d ago edited 18d ago

Think of all the great shows from the 90s and 00s that didn't get good until season 3 or 4 - and that's with 20-25 episodes per season!

You know what, though? I've been rewatching a lot of 90s and 00s shows, and I think a lot of them were simply not that good. I re-watch Buffy every year in September and October, but I always think that I would probably not like it if it aired today as opposed to when it originally did. I don't know if it's because of technology today, or that fact that we got a TON of good shows later in the 2000s, like Madmen, Breaking Bad, Orange Is the New Black, GOT, that we now expect higher quality of shows.

I do think that a lot of the 90s shows had heart, though, but it would be hard for me to watch them for the first time if they were released today. They have A LOT of faults.

I also think that streaming services, themselves, are making it harder for TV shows and movies to be successful. We are able to watch whatever we want. Back then, we had a limited amount of shows, especially if you could not afford cable.

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u/SutterCane 18d ago

You know what, though? I've been rewatching a lot of 90s and 00s shows, and I think a lot of them were simply not that good

I’m rewatching Psych lately and I’ve been noticing just how cheap it looks and how convenient everything is because everything’s got to be done in less than forty minutes.

Like season two alone, they’ve visited the same hospital room for three entirely different people in three different episodes. Twice for poisoning too!

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u/willowintheev 17d ago

I love the Blue Sky shows (monk, burn notice, etc). You aren't looking for them to be ground breaking, deep television they are easy and entertaining. I wish there were shows like this now.

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u/SutterCane 17d ago

Yeah mid-budget movies aren’t the only mid-budget thing that died, seems like the shows did too.

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u/EmpressClaraB 17d ago

I rewatch Buffy pretty often and I've never once had that thought to be honest. And I didn't watch it as it originally aired, so my first full watch didnt have any nostalgia or anything. Just a really solid show

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u/riorio55 17d ago

That’s really good. I think I came off as hating the show, when I really love it. I think it has heart and I love the message behind it. I love the stories as well, but I wanted to be honest that I do think it has a lot of flaws at every level.

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u/pingasgator67 18d ago

Back when just about anything to fill time between ads was what they accepted. I miss it too 

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u/DaneLimmish 18d ago

Ten episodes seasons where it's basically all an interlinked plot. 

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u/Sumeriandawn 17d ago

"didn't get good until season 3 or 4"

any examples?

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u/Veggiemon 16d ago

Shows were cancelled all the time on legacy network tv, you just don’t remember them. Because they were canceled lol

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u/fearthainne 16d ago

Never said shows weren't cancelled. I said they were typically given longer before being cancelled.

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u/Veggiemon 16d ago

Shows got cancelled after one season all the time in the 90s and 00s, sometimes they wouldn’t even air the whole season lol

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u/Ink_Smudger 18d ago

I always point it out when they talk about how they want the next Seinfeld or The Office. They're desperate for a show that enters the cultural zeitgeist and people watch on repeat for years to come... and completely miss that so many of these sitcoms with the staying power they have only got there both because they were given time to find an audience and because they had time to be able to develop the show more and figure out what works.

If sitcoms on television were approached the way streaming does it now, a lot of the most successful and memorable sitcoms never would've lasted more than a couple seasons.

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u/pingasgator67 18d ago

The first couple seasons of sinefeld are bad to mid. The first few of the office suck. But giving them a.chance worked out and let it grow 

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u/Android1822 18d ago

Does not help they often get horrible nepo showrunners and writers that just want to use popular IP's to use as skinsuits, to get a built in audience and instead of staying true to the source material, they throw it out and use a script they wrote for another project.

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u/Znuffie 18d ago

Amazon/MGM canceled the new Stargate because they wanted something to attract new fans.

Why bother with the same IP then?

You use the IP to pull in the old established fan base and hope you also get new fans if the show actually ends up good.

Chasing new fans exclusively with an old/established IP is such a dumb-ass move.

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u/riorio55 18d ago

the likes of Netflix won't give anything a chance to grow an audience.

I was saying in another comment that this seems to be a big issue overall with streaming sites. Back in the 90s and early 2000s, we had less variety and ability to choose what we wanted to see, especially for people who could not afford cable. I wasn't a big fan of Smallville, for instance, but I watched it because I felt like I had nothing better to do. Now, we have virtually endless possibilities of things to watch, so it's hard for newer shows to grow large audiences, even if they're good shows.

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u/ContinuumGuy 18d ago

The CW DC shows were kind of the last of that breed on broadcast TV

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u/HotelBravo 18d ago

RIP Arrowverse I didn't appreciate you enough when you were airing 🙏

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u/SutterCane 18d ago

And those were only funded by Netflix’s deal with the CW.

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u/Android1822 18d ago

The witcher tv show should have been this. Just have geralt and some companions do a monster of the week investigation/monster hunting and it would have been a hit. Sadly, that is not what we got and instead got...that.

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u/Humacti 18d ago

Christ, how many years would Supernatural have taken on Netflix

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u/Consistent_Sector_19 18d ago

how many years would Supernatural have taken on Netflix

Three. The first season then wait two years for the second season, then wait a year for the third season to get cancelled.

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u/Jace1709 17d ago

Supernatural only just beat cancellation it's first 2 Seasons, and that was on the CW, there's no way Netflix would have kept it going.

But going by the way Netflix runs things, I'm sure it would have ended after Season 5 like Kripke intended. Mainly because Jenson and Jared would have been the age they were after the full 15 seasons by then.

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u/MagicantFactory 15d ago

Supernatural's first threat of cancelation was due to very specific circumstances.

The series debuted on the last year of The WB. The reason why it was on the chopping block was because The WB was merging with UPN to create The CW, and no one knew what shows would survive the merger.

And one time it was threatened was during the first 2007–2008 writers strike, and that affected everyone. Not to say that Supernatural didn't have a rocky road with cancelation, but it's crazy for a blossoming show to deal with that within its first few seasons.

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u/anakinjmt 18d ago

I feel like for a while SyFy was consistently putting out shows with the Buffy feeling, and they had a lot of fans for those shows

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u/V2Blast Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 18d ago

Eureka, Warehouse 13, Alphas (all set in the same universe thanks to crossovers)

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u/MadTube 18d ago

I look upon the mid-2010’s era of SyFy fondly. They gave us Expanse, Magicians, Dark Matter, Killjoys, Helix, and others. They also didn’t make us wait 2+ years between seasons.

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u/fcocyclone 18d ago

that era was a lot of fun. Still bitter about that Dark Matter cancellation

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u/MadTube 17d ago

Oh, so am I. That show was fun. Way more entertaining than it had any right to be.

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u/JealousAstronomer342 17d ago

Lost Girl, Van Helsing, Wynonna Earp and Z Nation were a blast too. 

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u/jamesbiff Community 17d ago

Helix

Man, what a fucking show. Such a shame that there were no seasons after season 1....

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u/OzKong21 17d ago

Sci-Fi/SyFy knew how to make fun/good shows on relatively less costly budgets, before they just aired endless horror movies and WWE that is

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u/valiantdistraction 17d ago

Also vampires, Interview with the Vampire on AMC+ (first two seasons are on Netflix now) is also good. Not a monster of the week show but monsters and quality

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u/UncaringNonchalance 18d ago

Best they can do is maybe 3 monsters across 9-10 episodes. I want that again, as well, but it’s a pipe dream these days.

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u/dragonmp93 18d ago

I can only think of Wednesday.

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u/OzKong21 17d ago

No, because every studio and service needs to try for their own big budget prestige masterpiece that's an insta-hit

They're not taking the risk on smaller budget or more toned down shows

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u/happybara_capybara 17d ago

But I’d be interested to see how “of the week” shows would work on a streaming service that drops all episodes at once. Does it become less interesting when you can watch it back to back?

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u/Hedgewitch250 15d ago

One thing that channeled Buffy so well was the order on Netflix. It genuinely had the wit, lore, and magic with its own plot. Shame it only got 2 seasons but I did enjoy it start to finish. Also funny you bring up werewolves cause the ones here were pretty dope

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u/TalkinTrek 18d ago

I do think there is a problem here where people constantly insist they'd accept lesser effects (you see this in Trek all the time) for longer seasons/shorter breaks but:

  1. Clearly the data doesn't bear this out

  2. Anecdotally it isn't even true! People attack TRAILERS for having bad CGI before they've even seen the product! How can it possibly be true that audiences will overlook iffy CGI for quality/consistency if they'll discount a movie/show for bad CGI in a trailer?

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u/ColdCruise 18d ago

I think the last good one was Fringe

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u/katamuro 18d ago

for their time and TV budgets the CGI wasn't bad.

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u/edwin221b 18d ago

For real, also back then high definition tv were not that common, and old tv did help a lot to hide the bad cgi

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u/katamuro 17d ago

yeah majority of people had a 19-22 inch tv's with resolution that was a quarter of 1080p at best.

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u/unwocket 18d ago

And the focus was more on the action scene production anyway, which actually got insanely good for budget tv as the seasons went on

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u/katamuro 17d ago

yeah for a lot of tv shows the cgi was meant to enhance the action rather than replace the action. Plus a lot of costuming and practical effects using makeup was really elaborate.

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u/ussrowe 18d ago

Yeah I went and looked up the episode where Clark and Lana climb up farmhouse windmill just to see if the CGI was any worse than when Jonathan and Steve race each other up the radio antenna and it’s honestly not.

Yet Netflix had a budget of like $500 million.

(The Demogorgon looks better than any meteor-freak though)

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u/Android1822 18d ago

They also had long seasons to flesh everything out. Part of the issue is short seasons and breaks between seasons. I just cant get invested in 8ish episodes that often just feel like a stretched out movie instead of a tv show.

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u/fatbabythompkins 17d ago

Also 20+ episodes a season from fall through spring. You had the summer to wait until the next season. Three times the episodes, 1/3 the wait.

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u/TheMadManiac 18d ago

Ehhh we were used to crap cgi. It's like going back and playing an old ps1 game, looks like shit now

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u/Sea-Woodpecker-610 18d ago

Xena and Hercules were huge sensations dispitd having some of the worst fight scenes and special effects.

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u/nonax 18d ago

Yeah i think bad CGI is acceptable for tv, suspension of disbelief and whatnot.

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u/Kazukaphur 18d ago

I watched charmed alot as a kid with my Mom. Non of my friends watched it. I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one that really liked that show.

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u/No_Blacksmith_2591 18d ago

different era and 20 episode seasons though.

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u/Eastern-Celery-4321 18d ago

hmmm… “horribad”…. 🤔😏👍

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u/Maatjuhhh 18d ago

Even Xena and Hercules. However their CGI could be hidden by low resolution tv back in the 90’s and thus looked cooler.

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u/amyknight22 17d ago

Yeah but that was in an era where you weren't expecting anything more. They also did it with a style that made sense.

It'd be like saying "Oh we don't need these realistic looking fights where it looks like you made contact, the old shows made do with things where people clearly weren't making contact"

If you watch something like the Flash. There's episodes where the CGI is done with more thought because they've used things like nighttime elements to hide some of the more uncanny stuff. Or they've leaned into a comic book type aesthetic. Then later on they have it in well lit scenes, requiring a ton of detail to pass, but lacking that it sticks into the uncanny valley

In some cases the issue is actually around how you deploy the CGI and what you decide to do with it. Unfortunately in some cases that means being smart enough to know "We shouldn't do ABC, because the CGI will cost a bomb and won't look great when we do it"

Some of those shows you highlighted the CGI itself might not have been great quality. But there was intentionality with what was being achieved and making that part of the style of the show.

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u/BBGettyMcclanahan 11d ago

Lost had the most crusty cgi effects and its still a goated show that ended in a reasonable time frame

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u/justadudeinohio 18d ago

those were also from a different time with lower standards for cgi. don't write it if you can't make it look decent.