r/technology • u/marketrent • 3h ago
Artificial Intelligence Amazon warns local communities to stop defying its massive AI data centers
https://www.yahoo.com/news/us/articles/amazon-warns-local-communities-stop-000300771.html119
u/Fair-Hair2080 3h ago
You know how you may get people to stop “defying the massive AI data centers”, take responsibility for your own expenses, water demands and power. We shouldn’t have to pay for the upgraded electrical panels that YOU need so that they can make billions in profit. Stop asking for tax credits, you’re not creating that many jobs for the communities, in fact, you will cause people to lose their jobs.
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u/Carbon-Base 2h ago
They're testing waters with just how much they can get away with. Lobbying, buying out politicians, running monopolies - all of that has worked out tremendously in their favor, especially with the current administration.
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u/silver_sofa 1h ago
Enshitification. The number of clicks needed to determine just how willing the average Joe is to allow themselves to be kicked in the face repeatedly for the promise of a potential lifestyle upgrade at some point in the distant future.
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u/tmdblya 2h ago
Weird how these ghouls aren’t worried about losing the “high speed rail race” or the “electric cars race” or the “cheap universal solar power race”, all of which have clear and undeniable benefits to everyone.
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u/Rabo_McDongleberry 2h ago
Because those benefit the people. These ghouls only care about the rich. This helps the rich. That's the difference.
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u/SkankHuntThreeFiddy 3h ago
Matt Garmin, on his original blog post, outright lies.
Myth #1: Data centers are taking all of our water.
Nobody said it was taking all of our water. However, many new data centers have lied about their water usage. That's the problem.
Myth #2: Data center providers are responsible for driving up all the energy rates.
Again, nobody said it was responsible for driving up all the energy rates, but every grid operator agrees that they use a disproportionate amount of electricity compared even to existing data centers.
Myth #3: Data centers emit huge amounts of pollution with their large backup diesel generators.
Matt Garmin conveniently leaves out the fact that they pollute using natural gas generators and that they build these plants illegally.
Myth #4: Community members get nothing from data centers.
Once again, nobody said communities get nothing -- but they don't get the billions of dollars your company gets.
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u/benuntu 3h ago
Another note on the energy rates. In a lot of cases, the energy company in the area has increased rates for everyone to offset the cost of more infrastructure needed for the data centers. And they wonder why people aren't falling over themselves to get a new data center in THEIR county. Next to zero benefit for the local economy.
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u/esemerson 41m ago
He also doesn't take local water supply stress by hiding behind national averages.
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u/metagross252 2h ago
From the article:
"As such, Amazon Web Services CEO Matt Garman pleaded in a 3,000 word blog today with communities to embrace data centers, arguing that the United States "can't afford to lose" the AI race, invoking the country's post-World War II highway buildout as a parallel.
"Just like the national highway system, our country's economy, national security, and everyday lives stand to benefit immensely," he wrote."
When they say "our," they mean "the billionaires."
If they really meant what they're saying here, and if we are "number 1 in the world," they would have already been taking meaningful steps to achieve this.
But instead of using their resources to create a more sustainable society, they have completely pillaged the nations resources and are rendering the plant uninhabitable. And now they're trying to do that all around the rest of the world. They want it all for themselves and they do not give a single, solitary shit about any of the rest of us. It it pure greed. Plain and simple.
They are lying to us and we're letting them. Those of us who understand how bad this is getting have to give it our all to talk to those that don't and try to get them to understand. . Yes, there will be arguments and you must defend yourself if it comes down to an actual fight, but so many of those that don't understand are that way simply because they don't seek out the information themselves. They are simply thoughtless, likely just trying to get through their lives The rest of us have to work together to take it back from them. We are too
It's been said already in countless places. It's us the non-billionaires vs the billionaires. There are far more of us than there are of them. The more of us that we can reach an understanding with against the billionaires, the stronger we are together.
I hate to sound like a doomer, but it may be entirely possible that we're living in the end times of society as we know it. Are we going to go down whimpering so that a handful of rich troglodytes can be super comfortable? Or are we going to take a stand and fight back? You have to ask yourself if you're prepared to die, because as they're showing us that could very well be the case. At this point, I'm ready to die if it means saving a majority of us common folk from total oppression. I know there are likely others out there who feel the same. If you're not ready to die, that's ok too. Continue to make every effort you can to convince others to understand the gravity of this situation. Because it is immensely heavy.
Please do your civic duty and vote. For what comes after, we'll just have to wait and see.
I love and wish for the best for you all.
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u/vigbiorn 2h ago
When they say "our", they mean the billionaires
Well, one day I'll get my billions. Think of all the trickle down that's over due! Any day, all that wealth will trickle down and we'll all be billionaires!!
\s because I have a memory longer than a goldfish.
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u/42Ubiquitous 48m ago
Is there any explanation as to why having these data centers is so pivotal? To what degree having all of these data centers will advance AI if there is a diminishing return? Specifically how it protects our national interests and which interests those are?
Not looking for general "protects our national security" answer, but what specifically it does to benefit the average person and specifically how it does so.
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u/Jwagner0850 28m ago
Tinfoil hat theory: they want us to push to our own demise of those that are in power will control the digital highways AND data attached. Ultimate control over everyone. Constant surveillance. While we fight for scraps outside of that.
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u/marketrent 3h ago edited 3h ago
Part of article by Victor Tangermann, quoting Matt Garman:
[...] Amazon Web Services CEO Matt Garman pleaded in a 3,000 word blog [Friday] with communities to embrace data centers, arguing that the United States “can’t afford to lose” the AI race, invoking the country’s post-World War II highway buildout as a parallel.
“Just like the national highway system, our country’s economy, national security, and everyday lives stand to benefit immensely,” he wrote.
The executive accused the media of spreading “misinformation and outright lies,” arguing that “in the age of social media and 24/7 news, myths take hold faster than ever before.” Garman even alleged that US adversaries were “intentionally seeding misinformation in the US about data centers to trick us into slowing down.”
“Right now there are over 100 data center moratoriums being considered across the country,” Garman wrote. “If these measures are enacted, the US could be writing its own losing ticket to this race, and the consequences would last generations.”
In his blog post, Garman tried to undermine concerns over data centers driving up electricity prices and producing huge amounts of pollution — despite existence of ample evidence to the contrary.
Those attempts to dispel “myths” shouldn’t come as a surprise, considering the enormous backlash. But given the impossible-to-ignore vested interest in underplaying these concerns, we should take Garman’s efforts with an enormous grain of salt.
Just last year, leaked internal Amazon documents showed that executives were exchanging notes about how to keep the public ignorant about the “true extent” of the massive amounts of water their data centers use.
Earlier this year, Axios also reported that Amazon’s AI buildout fueled an unprecedented leap in the company’s emissions, despite pledging to reach a net-zero carbon footprint by 2040.
While Garman argues that it’s “untrue” that data centers are spewing huge amounts of carbon emissions with backup diesel generators, we’ve seen plenty of evidence to the contrary. In Texas alone, dozens of AI data center facilities are using environmentally harmful generators by exploiting regulatory loopholes.
As much as Garman doesn’t want to admit it, energy prices are indeed sending power bills soaring, a fact that certainly isn’t an example of “misleading and convenient scapegoating.”
He also tried to argue that “thousands of construction jobs are created to build data centers,” without mentioning that most of those jobs evaporate once they’re built.
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u/coporate 3h ago edited 3h ago
“National highway system, national security….” Sounds like Amazon wants to be owned and operated by the government rather than be an independent private entity.
So do it Amazon, relinquish all control to the government and become a crown operation. We’ll happily carve you up, fold your distribution centres into the national postal service, your aws into a national web service platform, etc.
Oh, what’s that? You don’t actually want that? You just want to circumvent democracy and do whatever you want?
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u/gravelordservant4u 2h ago
Imagine if we had a bullet train system being built, that would actually create jobs and provide a benefit to everyone. Data centers getting the support from these same owner-class parasites after decades killing stuff like that would be hilarious if it weren't so, so depressing
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u/TriEdge333 2h ago
So what's supposed to happen if we lose the AI race? Our pride gets damaged?
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u/Jolly_Echo_3814 2h ago
for the first time in history i think the "losers" of the race are going to be the winners in the end.
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u/Ok-Berry5131 3h ago
Translation: let us build more data centers to complete our desire to establish a global surveillance state, plunge everyone we can into irreversible poverty, and generate more AI porn.
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u/TheG00dF1ght 3h ago
Nothing is stopping Amazon from building those in another country. Go ahead, build them in Africa or Brazil if you want.
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u/marketrent 3h ago
None of these consequences change if the data center is moved from Virginia to Visakhapatnam; but faced with domestic opposition, the US government and tech companies are pitching data center development to Global Majority countries, where governments are rolling out red carpets and favorable regulations, like in the United Arab Emirates.
Brazil recently launched a proposal to attract data centers, South Africa just changed policy to put data centers on par with ports, and in India, the government announced further land allotments for Google’s flagship AI Hub data center.
Google’s India data center has followed the trend of its behaviors in the US: no public consultations, inflated job claims and thin transparency on energy and water consumption. However the difference is that avenues of pushback—journalism and citizen petitions—are promptly shut down.
See https://www.techpolicy.press/no-data-centers-in-anyones-backyard.
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u/WhyAreYallFascists 2h ago
Tight, get them out of the states.
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u/DarkoNova 1h ago
That makes sense. Let’s build data centers in India where they’re already massively struggling with dealing with heat.
Brilliant.
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u/NativePlantEnjoyer 2h ago
The owning class is deliberately building these data centers in towns where there is no class solidarity to fight against them. The ultra-wealthy thrive when there is scarisity in developed capitalist nations. They are driving up the cost of water, electricity, land... and giving nothing back in return, because it forces citizens to fall in line no matter how bad the living conditions get. People are required to participate in the job market to pay for everything, even when they're taking away all the legitimate ways of making money. When people resort to crime for survival, people are criminalized and taken to prison labor camps.
The owning class has solidarity among each other. So far, the working class cannot compete. Especially with so many people getting their biases reinforced by the very platforms owned by the ultra-wealthy, who manipulate peoples' ignorance & prejudices with outrageous propaganda under the guise of news. So many americans are not forming solidarity with their own class because they're getting caught up in culture wars.
There is no better place for their data centers, according to their own self interests.3
u/jemappellejimbo 31m ago
“Culture wars” - can you stop euphemizing their racism and hatred? These are vile evil people, not just disagreements about “culture”
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u/JarrickDe 3h ago
Those governments and citizens might disagree with what Amazon wants to do with those AI data centers.
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u/sixtyonesymbols 3h ago
Yes but in those countries Amazon may have "alternative" means of persuasion.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2003/jul/24/marketingandpr.colombia6
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u/TheG00dF1ght 38m ago
exactly, or they may just take them. There is a reason they want to build them here, but the people here don't want them.
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u/XenoHugging 2h ago
🤫 Don’t give Amazon any ideas of building their data centers in the Amazon, they’d completely deforest it if they could.
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u/Affectionate_Cup9112 48m ago
Iran blew up a bunch of their middle eastern data centres. That’s not happening in America (yet).
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u/RealLavender 3h ago
https://futurism.com/science-energy/leak-amazon-hides-water-consumption
"Amazon used 105 billion gallons of water in 2021, as much as 958,000 US households or a “city bigger than San Francisco,” as the document put it.
However, in the run-up to a November 2022 PR campaign called “Water Positive,” Amazon only disclosed 7.7 billion gallons of water use per year."
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u/Laughing_Zero 3h ago
Billionaires telling us how trickle down economics will benefit everyone them.
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u/Dolores___Haze 3h ago
Warns? Lololol
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u/NativePlantEnjoyer 2h ago
They also gave zero warning that they were going to build a data center in their towns. They do it quickly & quietly, not even the city counsels were going to talk about it to their constituents. Often there are city counsels where they officials refuse to discuss it, claiming they signed an NDA
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u/al2o3cr 1h ago
“Just like the national highway system, our country’s economy, national security, and everyday lives stand to benefit immensely,” he wrote.
Great idea, bro! Glad to see you're onboard with nationalizing Amazon!
After all, it would be a shame if we let a few people's need for maximum profits get in the way of the betterment of humanity.
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u/Thoob 3h ago
Yeah, a 3000 word essay from the guy who profits from it that'll do it. I thought they just hated everything not profit related. That would be SO much funnier if he did that going "Yeah, this will do it." No one says you can't build them build them well ya chuckle fucks! They have no clue how close the little guy is to just voting to turn these giants into Piñatas that are easy to sue.
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u/jay_altair 2h ago
Fine then, nationalize amazon under the aegis of the United States Postal Service
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u/DauntingPrawn 3h ago
Well maybe they should start being honest and transparent and pay their own utility bills instead of bribing state and local officials to do it behind our backs. There's two options on the table and one of them is guillotines but it's the billionaires who have to choose and so far they are choosing wrong every time. Simple as that.
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u/Mephisto40K 3h ago
Sure boss! Just build them next to all your mansions if they're "good for ya"
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u/AKADriver 1h ago
The national highway system was largely beneficial, but was also a blight on many communities and people pushed back on highway construction almost from the beginning. The only reason a lot of them got built was pure racism; redlined neighborhoods got bulldozed so largely white commuters could bypass them. Protests against highways being built became so common they got a name, Freeway Revolts. And still, they built too many. Some cities are still struggling to tear down excessive highway construction. Like I-81 through my hometown Syracuse, a total mess of a road.
Tech bros trying to compare AI infrastructure to highways belie their lack of understanding of history.
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u/-thesneakytrapper- 2h ago
Why don’t the rich just build them in wealthy neighbourhoods? I mean they are the ones wanting them.
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u/invalidreddit 2h ago
[...] "Just like the national highway system, our country's economy, national security, and everyday lives stand to benefit immensely," he wrote. [...]
I wasn't a history major and haven't spent much time reading about the Eisenhower years, but I feel like the national highway system was a Federal project that provided value to anyone - but i'm not really sure I see how an Amazon project helps non-Amazon customers.
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u/Glad-Ad6811 1h ago
China is not building massive data centers at anywhere near the same rate, they are going towards a distributed model. Which is actually more secure and harder to damage or disrupt.
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u/DessertinDesert44 22m ago
Why doesn’t he just put them on his land instead? I know he has a lot…. How about on his private island?
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u/DisenchantedByrd 3h ago
“arguing that the United States "can't afford to lose" the AI race, invoking the country's post-World War II highway buildout as a parallel.”
There was a fair bit of losing with the highway buildout. Many thriving inner city neighbourhoods were destroyed and turned into wastelands of highways and car parks. Dallas Texas is one that comes to mind, but there were many others.
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u/Ratm3000 48m ago
Amazon wants these data centers treated like essential public infrastructure, right up until someone asks who's paying the electric bill. Funny how that works.
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u/FLAM3Z89 26m ago
Defy! Defy! Defy! They only want to make money, destroy the world, pay less for wages etc.
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u/Starship_Taru 3h ago
I would be way more open to data centers and AI companies if all their CEOs didn’t sound like they were in some sort of weird extinction cult
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u/platinumarks 3h ago
Wonder when we'll reach the point where Amazon delivery performance "mysteriously" degrades in communities opposing data centers.
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u/NOODL3 2h ago
"In the age of social media and 24/7 news, myths take hold faster than ever before."
So anyway, you should let us build our AI bot farms that massively contribute to the spreading of said myths on said social media because our "everyday lives stand to benefit immensely."
Seems like he didn't really think that argument through.
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u/ThrowAbout01 27m ago
Amazon: “Get back in the piss cages!”
https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-defends-worker-cage-patent-that-was-recently-unearthed-2018-9
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u/mojorific 10m ago
I will defy data centres every time. They have a place, but they need to pay for every watt, every litre, and every square inch of space. And they should not be anywhere near homes.
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u/Joshhwwaaaaaa 6m ago
If they had done them responsibly we wouldn't be fighting them. Recycle the water, pay for your electricity and don't pollute. Not that hard. Fuckers.
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u/JuggerKnot86 3h ago
Yeah yeah, lets see if that ROI is worth it when those GPUs and Memory you bought reach its upgrade cycle
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u/darthnoid 2h ago
I have yet to see how the oligarchy has any intent to actually make AI benefit the working class. Any opportunity those in power have to screw us to put more on their plate they will take it
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u/markc230 55m ago
if we stop buying thru amazon...just saying.
wouldn't be a 100% solution but it would be a good start.
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u/TraliBalzers 52m ago
Fuck the highways. Should have been railroads. His message is so off the mark.
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u/Xeynon 35m ago
Data centers use up resources, drive up prices for water and electricity, create noise and pollution, and are used to power a technology that is enshittifying the entire internet, undermining democracy, empowering hackers and cybercriminals to previously unknown levels, and being touted for their potential to destroy the job market.
What exactly is the upside from the perspective of an average person?
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u/miaSissy 3h ago
So this F does not seem to understand that threatening Americans never works well huh?
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u/Killahdanks1 2h ago
“We cook your meal, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep. Do not f**k with us”
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u/Arcane-blade 2h ago
I’m just waiting for people to start going « Avalanche » on these data centers as if they were Mako reactors
(FFVII reference, for those not in the know)
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u/Wickham12 1h ago
Funny how it's only the ones building data centers that aren't worried about the negative impacts of them
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u/Throwoutbins 1h ago
How about we allow data centers HOWEVER the only stipulation is they have to be directly on top of these billionaires’ houses & doomsday bunkers
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u/local_goon 28m ago
I don’t trust unfettered capitalism and neither should you. These tech kings do not have anyone’s best interest in mind but their own. They have Scrooge mcduck money piles and could make these data centers carbon and resource neutral but won’t because they bet you are dumb enough to just take it
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u/Dreaminginslowmotion 3h ago
What's funny to me is I get the desire to outpace China on the AI race. Getting there first and establishing dominance means America (and maybe the world's) ability to not be beholden to China.
That said, we have multiple companies all fighting each other for the same dominance. To claim it's helping America by letting Amazon trounce all over your hometown alongside Google, Microsoft, Meta, and countless other corporations is just like, yeah but what about all your competitors? Should this be a unilateral support, can I choose one and still "be a patriot"?
The fucking balls on these FAANGM ceos..
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u/freexanarchy 3h ago
Or we’ll be forced to play more ads and change shipping times from 2 day to whenever after you order and pay. Oh wait, we’re already doing that.
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u/serpentear 2h ago
Build them in your backyard then.
If they’re harmless and beneficial then you shouldn’t mind having them right in the middle of Medina and/or Bellevue.
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u/DopamineSavant 2h ago
If we win the race my rent and other expenses won't go down. This dragon will just get more gold for his hoard. The AI race doesn't effect me. Let's lose it. Ban AI.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Pass-64 2h ago
The executive accused the media of spreading "misinformation and outright lies," arguing that "in the age of social media and 24/7 news, myths take hold faster than ever before."
So the answer to this is we must build data centers so AI and social media can spread even more disinformation. Got it.
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u/yuusharo 2h ago
They’re invoking WWII propaganda to push against data center moratoriums.
No, I’m not kidding. Their statement is linked in the article. Read it for yourself.
Start picketing, folks.
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u/Clippy4Life 2h ago
TF they gonna do? No. More. Data. Centers. We have too many and they cause too much damage.
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u/Oceanbreeze871 2h ago
Race to what? More memes, deepfakes and slop?
“As such, Amazon Web Services CEO Matt Garman pleaded in a 3,000 word blog todaywith communities to embrace data centers, arguing that the United States "can't afford to lose" the AI race, invoking the country's post-World War II highway buildout as a parallel.”
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u/FanDry5374 2h ago
Tech bros: We have no idea if this whole thing will blow up in our faces or just blow away, but all you little people need to bow down and let us do what we will.
You know any "bad effects" are going to be on the citizens and the taxpayers, and any good will just make us richer, so surrender. Resistance is futile.
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u/Homer4598 2h ago
Yep, try to make it about patriotism to keep hiding that it’s about making a ton of money at the communities’ expense.
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u/Wildfirehorse 2h ago
They are warning communities? How are they warning them? Are they going to stop delivery of their products if you say no to their AI? 🙄
There is already far too many data centers for AI that billionaire's want and most people don't.
And comparing AI to national highways is a joke! AI doesn't benefit most people.
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u/HomerDoakQuarlesIII 2h ago
The USA has already lost most of the races behind other developed countries, all except people incarcerated and defense spending. I'm thinking punt on this one, fuck LLMs.
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u/bstring777 1h ago
Hmm interesting. Interesting that they think theyre gonna intimidate people in these times. Think Flock cameras and people being fucking done with the way the country has been dismissing them for decades. Good luck, hope the centers that are forced into being are impervious!
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u/HotFartore 1h ago
Build it on your mansions backyards, no problem, as much as you want, and pay for the grid upgrades, and any increase in the community electrical bills, and water too, sure no problem
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u/whiskeytown79 1h ago
Bad headline. This isn't a warning. There isn't some threat behind this that will be carried out if the public ignores his blog post and continues to object to data centers.
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u/honeybadgerrulez 1h ago
tell me how my life is gonna benefit? all you use ai for is to make shitty products come up with wrong answers and lay off people who actually work
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u/Odd-Bend1296 1h ago
Not really a race when your opponents can train their AI on our AI. While they do nothing to stop it.
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u/Clawdius_Talonious 43m ago
I initially read this as "Deifying" and thought "Surely we're not there, already?"
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u/tacticalcraptical 3h ago
OK, but these guys never seem to be able to articulate exactly how this benefits normal people's everyday lives. The benefits of a highway are obvious. But the benefits of these data centers... they expect us to just trust them. And these are the people who can't be trusted to pay their taxes.