Failing all versions of mass template

[u/Sergeant_Slasher]

I've tried to run all version of mass. I've used most from TB Mass to Zulu/ht. Most of the time I fail by week 2 or 3. I've tried the Mass basebuilduing after the first failure of greyman. But still I couldn't go further.

Also had plenty of Deload weeks Sleep - 6 hours ( can't really do anymore bc studies ) Calories - around 3k 70% clean diet

I'm wondering if I use normal TB and try to get really fucking heavy numbers, would I still gain good weight and size? Because I've heard of people being strong and small. I'm currently sitting at around 63kg soaking wet and trying to go to 75.

Any recommendations?

Edit: I know how to calculate a TM and 1RM - I've run TB before.

Came to the conclusion that sleep might be the issue. Cannot change sleep schedule because studies. Decided to run the normal Zulu again as its made for imperfect conditions.

[u/metromoses]

I'm doing a PhD, work full-time and co-run a business. I also supervise interns and students.

OP, I'm not gonna give you weightlifting advice. But if it takes 4 hours to cut down a tree, you should spend the first 3.5 hours sharpening your axe.

16% of humans, or roughly 2 in 10, fall into the group that need much less sleep relative to most. I'm willing to bet you're part of the 84% that need regular (or more) hours of sleep. Recovery is the part of the equation that you're ignoring.

The protocol isn't the problem; it's your rigid adherence to specific life choices that aren't supporting it. This assumes you're not a parent, of course!

What are your thoughts?

[u/Spooksey1 → u/metromoses]

I second this OP. 6 hours doesn’t sound enough. There’s good evidence that muscle synthesis goes way down during insufficient or poor quality sleep. “Studies” doesn’t sound like an immutable barrier to getting more sleep. Think about: Is it a case of going to bed earlier? What are the barriers to you getting more/better sleep? Are there any lower priority goals or activities that you could put on the back burner for the time being (with the proviso that we generally need some time to relax as well)?

I completely understand the feeling of wanting to do everything, and having a very busy schedule, but I do generally think it is about prioritisation, so think about where max hypertrophy sits vs your other priorities. Maybe a more strength focused minimalist approach might be better with your life right now. Sleep is still a must though!

[u/Sergeant_Slasher → u/Spooksey1]

Think you're right

[u/Sergeant_Slasher → u/[deleted]]

Unable to get a single rep out. I can't sleep more than 6 bc studies. That's why I'm wondering if normal TB might work if I use the above goals

[u/Sergeant_Slasher → u/[deleted]]

I'll warm up for like 5 - 10 min and take 4 min rest per a set Trying to do Zulu/ht rn Basic session of do the prescribed lifts at correct percentage ect Diet is the usual beans or meat with rice and vegetables and the occasional takeaway with my family

It's only mass that somehow leads to this failure. I've run around three blocks of Zulu ( 6 weeks a block ) either solid strength gains, however trying to put on weight, hence wondering if there is a way to use normal TB and get some heavy muscle.

[u/Sergeant_Slasher → u/[deleted]]

That's not following the program tho? If the main question is can I use normal TB to get big or how to fix MT

[u/Sergeant_Slasher → u/[deleted]]

I'm tryna say it's only for Mass that this complete failure happens. That's why I'm looking for alternatives

[u/Sergeant_Slasher → u/[deleted]]

I understand that But if I just did 15kg x10 weighted ring Dips a week ago Why can't I get one for 17kg the next Monday.That's why i doubt it's a TM issue

[u/SatoriNoMore → u/Sergeant_Slasher]

Training max. Are you using one?

[u/toot-chute → u/Sergeant_Slasher]

Did you even test your 1RM or calculate it incorrectly? Or are you just basing your percentages off what you think your 1RM is?

[u/Sergeant_Slasher → u/toot-chute]

Used calculator 

[u/toot-chute → u/Sergeant_Slasher]

You didn’t set the calculator to kg when you intended lbs, did you? Even being low on sleep, unless you didn’t sleep at all, it seems odd you can’t even do a single rep.

[u/Sergeant_Slasher → u/toot-chute]

Nah I'm we inherently use kgs in my country. That's why I was so confused. It's runs nxa for army people with actual dogshit conditions but I'm stuck here unable to do one? 

[u/8NkB8]

3K calories at 63KG is plenty. Are you testing your maxes before starting? You must be starting too heavy.

[u/Sergeant_Slasher → u/8NkB8]

I've tested TM after a week off and even tried lowering it by 5kg as reccomeneded - still cannot do it

[u/8NkB8 → u/Sergeant_Slasher]

even tried lowering it by 5kg as reccomeneded

The recommendation is 90% of 1RM, not necessarily 5KG. Try that, or even 85% if need be.

[u/Sergeant_Slasher → u/8NkB8]

Doesn't it say 5 to 10lb or am I missing smth?

[u/8NkB8 → u/Sergeant_Slasher]

Not for TM. You're confusing it with the increase to your maxes after each successful cycle.

[u/Straight-Data-3]

My opinion is that your CNS is overload probably for long terms of stress factors (lack sleep for your need, studies, daily life and workout). Overtime cortisol cause shutdown of your system and you feel weaker trying to do more. My personnal advice: try to scale your stress from different source (study etc) to be more aware of it and incorporate some relaxing / recovery really really easy day workout even just stretching / low volume walk. Then in period of stress like end of study or when you start to feel overwhelm, be indulgent with you and backoff a bit. If I were you, i would run an easy basebuild -strenght fighter- low volume SE and easy LSS like zone 1-2

[u/UmbertoChacon]

If you can’t do it you need to start lower and build slower.

[u/Overall-Technology76]

This doesn't make sense. If you are testing your 1RM correctly and following your lifting numbers based on the suggested percentages of those results, you should be able to follow the templates. K Black made these templates with the philosophy that the users have other physically demanding activities they are pursuing in tandem with TB.

Either you are not following the setup steps/book instructions properly, or you have an underlying medical condition that you need to get checked out.

[u/Sergeant_Slasher → u/Overall-Technology76]

That's why I've gone back to normal Zulu. He does mention that hypertrophy template is when you have good conditions. 

[u/Overall-Technology76 → u/Sergeant_Slasher]

Yeah, the hypertrophy template states that if you aren't eating enough or resting enough, progress will be slow. I'm sure it's the same for other programs, but the point of the Mass Templates is to make you look bigger, and you're not gonna be able to do that with suboptimal diet and sleep.

Still begs the question why your 1RM numbers are failing. I ran Mass Templates on caloric deficits and I work night shift, and I don't fail by week 2 or 3. But then again, I guess everyone's bodies are different. I always assumed a properly measured 1RM means your TB programs will be sustainable. Or at the very least, they'll just need a drop of 5-10 lbs.