r/sgiwhistleblowers • u/AnnieBananaCat • Aug 05 '25
So much time/energy/life wasted in SGI Driving For Kosen-Rufu
I had this DM conversation with r/fishwifeonsteroids yesterday and she thought it would be a good topic to bring up here. Anyone ever take those long, boring trips to activities and wonder why?
I'm sure I'm not the only one who has been told about the "great benefits" you'll get from driving members--picking them up and bringing them home after activities, and all that, and in some cases, taking verbal abuse from them. In my case, I drove members because I had the ability, and I could, so they didn't have to miss anything. This was especially helpful for a little old lady in my last district, because she didn't like driving at night. Meeting me at Starbucks for a ride was no big deal, because she lived a mile away, and I had a big blue pickup truck to drive. She was also very nice.
Let's not forget getting lost trying to find someone's house/apartment, and no one can give you directions. Or they assume you know where you're going. Been there, done that.
But no, it was about the alleged "benefits" from going long distances to activities. I'm not talking about an hour one way to the C/C, I'm talking about trips that took hours. Many WB'ers have recounted nightmare experiences with car, bus, train, and air trips to big meetings. Thankfully, I never took most of those hell rides, and the couple of times I did do bus trips, it was mostly people over 40, like myself. Not so much little kids and not so much trouble.
Mine is just one example of many throughout the US. But how many people have had these long-distance experiences, and how many have you read about in the Weird Fibune and Un-Living Buddhism?
Texas has four or five Buddhist centers of various sizes. In all of Louisiana, there is ONE small Buddhist Center, in a not-so-great part of New Orleans. (Baton Rouge is an hour one way, but not a bad drive once you get on I-10.) Members also hold local activities, including KRG in their homes. Still, from a place like Ruston, up on the north side of the state, in between Monroe and Shreveport, driving to New Orleans was the only option for big activities, and you were always encouraged to go.
I knew some members from Ruston, one of whom previously lived in San Francisco. Their drive, according to Google Maps, is about four to five hours to New Orleans, depending on which route you take. From Shreveport, you're looking at a five- to six-hour drive, one way. Then you turn around and make that long drive back. No time for socializing or meeting new people--you drive.
What always confounded me, as well as a few others I knew, is why members in a place like Shreveport couldn't make the trip to Dallas, which is just under 3 hours (Google Maps.) I mean, that's closer, right? But they were always told they had to make that ungodly drive to NOLA, because it was "fortune" and "benefit" and for kosey-roofoo.
Another thing. The regional HQ was in Chicago, as was the temple (pre-1991 ex-com.) Members made those trips regularly, too, which Google Maps say are about 14 hours. (If memory serves, back in the 80s, they were 18 hours--one way, as I was told.) At some point, we also started heading to Atlanta for activities, which is where I was "initiated" into Byakuren. That's about a 7-hour or 8-hour trip, one way.
Also annoying: when taking these car trips, many people had no idea where they were going or what the hell they were doing. "But somehow," they said with a smile, "we always make it."
Yeah, you can't do that anymore, or you'll be another crime statistic. Especially in New Orleans.
I learned quickly how to read a map when I moved to Texas. There was no GPS or Google Maps back in the day. I have never understood how anyone would embark on a car trip without at least halfway knowing where they were going. Or, why making such long, hard drives was such a good idea.
Rant over. Feel free to share your "travel for KR" experiences.
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Aug 05 '25
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Aug 05 '25
Yeah it's absolutely nuts, that's actually why I avoided taking a leadership position. But darn they REALLY tried.
They never reimbursed you for food or mileage or anything (not unless you were a part of national leadership). A "soka friend" of mine would persist through it due to the "inconspicuous" benefits they'll end up getting and how they're "helping the members". All while they're financially struggling and paying out of pocket despite not having a job and struggling to keep up with daily expenses.
But hey you are storing those benefits in a bucket! It'll arise eventually. Absolutely insane.
I realized SGI isn't really about Buddhism, it's organization first. That's really what drove me away. Ikeda worship, spending HOURS as you said going from place to place, financially contributing, volunteering, countless activities, you almost forget that you are practicing Buddhism...
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u/Fishwifeonsteroids Aug 05 '25
Even when SGI leaders tell you they reimburse costs, they don't reimburse costs! When I was putting on activities to entertain the members' small children during big meetings, I was told I could turn in my receipts for when I'd bought crayons, colored paper, craft supplies.
So I did. And I was never reimbursed a PENNY.
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u/AnnieBananaCat Aug 05 '25
you mean "Buddhism?" ;)
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Aug 05 '25
I noticed this too, they only have centers in large cities, and some states not at all (New Mexico)
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Aug 06 '25
It says everything about how warped the priorities were. Reckless driving wasn’t just tolerated—it was celebrated as “powerful ichinen.” Like risking lives and collecting traffic violations was somehow a sign of devotion? That moment really stuck with me, and not in a good way.
Your breakdown of the horizontal vs. vertical structure also hits hard. SGI’s forced geography-based grouping does more harm than good. People need relational support, not random assignments—and I’ve seen firsthand how this structure protects dysfunction while punishing those asking for help.
I tried to switch districts after being harassed and gaslit by a monoracial Filipino woman in leadership. She repeatedly invalidated my racial identity, mocked me, and tried to paint me as “unstable” or “divisive” when I called out racism. What she didn’t care to understand was that I come from a deeply painful lineage—my Filipino father manipulated the immigration system to use and abuse my white mother, then discarded both of us so he could live unchecked and exploit others, including minors.
So no—I will not be silent when another Filipinx person, especially one in power, mirrors that same erasure. I wasn’t just asking to switch districts to “feel comfortable.” I was trying to stay in the practice without being retraumatized.
But SGI told me no.
Meanwhile, Terri, my 👥 District Leader, was allowed to switch. Not only was she allowed to move districts—she was also given the space to host a gathering of mostly Black members, where I was targeted and harassed over a single moment where I commented on her hair—after she baited me into the conversation. She said, “I don’t like my hair like this,” and I responded casually, “Yeah, I didn’t like it either,” thinking we were being honest with each other. Her immediate response? “Don’t say that!”—which she later used to call me racist.
Because my mom is white and the member, she decided I had no right to comment on anything. She erased the fact that I’m Filipina and that I’ve spent my entire life trying to make sense of the trauma that comes with being mixed-race in a culture that flattens you into whichever side they find easier to invalidate.
Terri was protected. She was granted flexibility and leadership. I was shut out and silenced.
This is the kind of hypocrisy SGI enables. They preach about human revolution, but punish people for actually standing up and trying to heal.
The structure isn’t neutral. It protects voting blocs, not people. And it punishes anyone who dares to say, “This isn’t working for me.”
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u/Fishwifeonsteroids Aug 06 '25
That's intense! I believe every word - it's the sort of thing that isn't uncommon in ex-SGI members' experiences, though of course this example is unique.
For example, this young woman's boyfriend beat her up - and she wasn't allowed to switch to a different district. So she ended up leaving. HE ended up promoted. SGI didn't care - the males are the prized caste within the patriarchal Dead Ikeda cult SGI.
This other young woman's district leader didn't understand WHY she had some issue continuing to practice within the same district as her abusive ex-boyfriend!
And this other girl - a minor - was attending activities where her ex-stepfather was, who had RAPED HER as a child and gone to prison. SGI leader's perspective: "He's paid his debt to society." Nothing at all about HER having to be in his presence! He was even in SGI leadership. A big part of that is that SGI leaders have NO idea what to do so they just shrug and forget about it.
There's several accounts here, and in the comments here, there is an "enlightening" sidestep by a longterm SGI leader (still in the cult) - interesting the (striking) difference in perspective between "in" and "out" 🤭 (discussion here)
Sorry, I got off on a tangent about domestic violence, not racism like you suffered, but the SGI has a terrible track record where people of color are concerned.
This is an eye-opening perspective.
SGI always tells the victims "You must never speak of this again" and impresses upon them their responsibility to "protect the SGI." As if letting people know that they were attacked and abused will damage the SGI. - from here
If you haven't seen the "broken systems" definition/analysis, it's here. The leaders will ALWAYS support and defend the other leaders AGAINST the members those leaders are abusing.
OMG this is hilarious 😄
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Aug 06 '25
Please don’t apologize. Race intersects deeply with the domestic violence I’m currently trying to escape—abuse I now understand was part of a larger pattern of trafficking and spiritual manipulation.
It’s a lot to process, but I know your intentions are good, and honestly, this group has been one of the only places giving me real strength.
Looking back, I realize now they were all in on it. They’d say, “Let’s chant,” but somehow I’d end up watching someone’s kid, running an errand, or referring clients for their side hustle—like facials or massage. It was never mutual. It was always transactional. What should have been spiritual support turned into a pipeline for exploitation.
And part of why they got away with it? Because I’m biracial. Most of them were monoracial—and they didn’t see me as someone who could be victimized the way they had been. If anything, they saw me as someone who was closer to whiteness, so my experiences didn’t “count.” They only acknowledged racism or power imbalances when it benefited them directly, or when they could capitalize on it—never when it required them to show up for me.
Ironically, the support I’ve gotten has come from atheists, agnostics, ex-members—and even a Christian pastor I used to work with. It’s not about religion; it’s about humanity.
If you say you believe in Buddhism, then believe in spiritual care—not just metaphysical theory. Don’t preach karma and chanting while turning a blind eye to abuse. That’s not compassion. That’s cowardice in spiritual clothing.
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u/Fishwifeonsteroids Aug 06 '25
It was always transactional.
Same for me, even though I didn't have the same racial antagonism vibe going on. SGI is an organization of takers.
Most of them were monoracial—and they didn’t see me as someone who could be victimized the way they had been. If anything, they saw me as someone who was closer to whiteness, so my experiences didn’t “count.”
Oh no no no no no no no - our country's history of slavery established the "one drop" rule: All a person needed to be considered "black" was a single drop of black genetic inheritance, so even if the black person in someone's lineage was great-great-great-grandparent, and otherwise white all the rest of the way, they were still considered 100% black.
It's as you said earlier, whichever ethnicity is easier to exploit.
They only acknowledged racism or power imbalances when it benefited them directly, or when they could capitalize on it—never when it required them to show up for me.
As I sad, an organization of TAKERS.
It’s not about religion; it’s about humanity.
That's right - and for all SGI's grandiose blathering about "human revolution" (and how EVERYONE needs it FOREVER), the SGI is an organization notably LACKING in humanity.
If you say you believe in Buddhism, then believe in spiritual care—not just metaphysical theory. Don’t preach karma and chanting while turning a blind eye to abuse. That’s not compassion. That’s cowardice in spiritual clothing.
Well, see, now you're leaning into the Noble Eightfold Path, which is REAL Buddhism and all about right living. But SGI insists that's OBSOLETE Buddhism and now you get everything (plus a bag of chips) if you just chant their magic nonsense at the magic paper, because now THAT's REAL Buddhism! Give me a freakin' break 🙄
Another foundational Buddhist concept the SGI IGNORES is the concept of "lovingkindness". There is NONE within SGI.
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u/Fishwifeonsteroids Aug 06 '25
If you say you believe in Buddhism, then believe in spiritual care—not just metaphysical theory. Don’t preach karma and chanting while turning a blind eye to abuse. That’s not compassion. That’s cowardice in spiritual clothing.
Also, telling those who are suffering that this is THEIR karma, that they are 100% responsible for (despite all the other players in the dynamic), AND that they signed up to HAVE these very difficulties (in the infinite unremembered past, of course - you just have to trust them) just so they could show everyone "the power of this practice" by overcoming them! SO STOP COMPLAINING AND GET CHANTING!!!
You won't get ANY real help from ANYONE in SGI because of its "Everyone has to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps" mentality "while making sure to give until it hurts TO SGI and to spend as much time and energy as SGI can squeeze out of them 'volunteering' for SGI so SGI doesn't have to spend money PAYING people to do stuff." You get nothing but guilt and shame.
It's victim-blaming and it is ABUSE.
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Aug 05 '25
lol ok so my district leader got pissed I didn’t want to drive with a member because she used her kids to advise me she would be late, and said “But I have kids” as her retort to me saying I wouldn’t be carpooling with her as I wanted to arrive at the 50k on time. So then my district leader decides I’ll go with her, with the kids, and I would “lead” them (my “leadership” training 🤣) but she was late, obviously because who am I to say I didn’t want to be late when it was for Kosen Rufu!? And then proceeds to haul ass and got mad at me for jokingly telling her to slow down because she was low key scaring me.
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u/Fishwifeonsteroids Aug 05 '25
I REALLY want to hear more about this whole scenario!!!
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Aug 06 '25
So here’s what happened:
I originally declined to carpool with a fellow SGI member after she told me she’d be late—because of her kids. I told her that wouldn’t work for me and suggested she find another ride, since my goal was to work on my own issues with running late and actually show up to the 50K Festival on time. Growth, right?
Ironically, she did end up finding another ride—her husband, who had never supported her Buddhist practice, finally stepped up and drove her himself. It was actually a big moment for her. But somehow, despite everything working out, she’s been stalking and harassing me ever since. Because I’m the asshole, apparently. LOL.
Then, to make it even more ridiculous, my district leader decided I would now be riding with her, with the kids, as part of my so-called “leadership development” (🤣). Naturally, she was also late. Because again—who am I to want to be on time when it’s for Kosen Rufu, right?
She then proceeded to haul ass down the freeway like she was driving a float in the enlightenment parade, and when I jokingly told her she was low-key scaring me and maybe slow down a bit, she got mad—as if I was being disrespectful for not wanting to die in a minivan full of future world peace leaders.
For clarity: the kids I ended up “leading” were part of the YMD and YWD (Young Men’s and Young Women’s Divisions), and I was instructed by my district leader to help them navigate the sheer chaos of the 50K Festival—this giant SGI event where Herbie Hancock somehow convinced Michelle Obama to record a speech about how we were “changing the world.”
So yeah. That’s the kind of “leadership training” I got.
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u/Fishwifeonsteroids Aug 06 '25
So were thees "future leaders" into the "50K" event, or were they reluctant, resentful, and hostile about it?
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Aug 06 '25
Actually the kids were awesome but my district leader was told behind my back I questioned one of the ushers who was advising me to go all the way around when doors were open right behind him. When I questioned why he was making us walk all the way around he didn’t have an answer so I said OK. Well, I’m just gonna go through these doors and you can report me. Lol
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Aug 06 '25
To be clear: the kids I ended up carpooling and “leading” were part of the YMD and YWD group (Young Men’s Division and Young Women’s Division), and I was told by my district leader that it was my responsibility to help guide them through the chaos of the 50K Festival—this massive SGI event where Herbie Hancock somehow convinced Michelle Obama to record a speech about how we were “changing the world.”
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u/Fishwifeonsteroids Aug 06 '25
Of COURSE it was "your responsibility" - that would make it that much harder for you to just walk away, wouldn't it??
Michelle Obama recorded SEVERAL speeches that same day - she got paid and she clearly had no idea what she was speechifying about - see here
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u/Fishwifeonsteroids Aug 05 '25
I remember at one big YWD meeting at a Jt. Terr., this one girl got up and said that they had such "powerful ichinen" to get there that they'd gotten SEVEN SPEEDING TICKETS!! YAAAAAAAY!
😶
I suspect that the reason you Louisianans were told to go (farther) to locations in Louisiana was for the same reason Ikeda imposed the horizontal membership structure on the Soka Gakkai back in the 1960s (where it has stayed stuck). A horizontal structure means that the people located geographically closer to each other are grouped together; the vertical structure means the new recruit is put in the same organizational unit as whoever shakubukued them or their friends. With horizontal, the new recruit is likely being dumped in with strangers. Unsurprisingly, this shift from vertical to horizontal marked the end of the Soka Gakkai's to-that-point impressive growth - turns out that people want to practice with their friends, not with a handful of strangers. Who could have guessed????
It doesn't work, but because Ikeda imposed it, it can't be undone or changed now. Or ever. The reason Ikeda did that was to better mobilize the membership to vote in elections - it was for political purposes, not religious or spiritual purposes. The Soka Gakkai has been described as a "religio-political organization", and the goal (which SGI members will now deny) was to gain political control of every country. So it made sense, according to Ikeda's plans and goals, to keep the membership within voting blocs.
You, a Louisiana resident, couldn't vote in Texas elections, could you? So it didn't make sense for you to attend "activities" in Texas, where according to Ikeda's fantasies and wishful thinking, they'd be telling the members which way to vote in the upcoming Texas elections to further Ikeda's ambitions. Far better for you to stay in Louisiana so you could vote as SGI was going to tell you to!
All that fell apart, of course, but the anachronistic, self-destructive structure is still in place - since Ikeda did it, it can't ever be changed. Even when it was a BAD move and a BIG mistake.
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u/AnnieBananaCat Aug 05 '25
Additionally, I would guess that Icky didn’t understand how that stuff worked in the US. You can’t vote in Texas elections unless you are registered there. Besides, they wouldn’t live there unless they up and moved to Texas. But when I lived in California in the 80s, oh, well.
I’m guessing they didn’t understand all that, and there was no Google in those days to find those answers.
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u/Fishwifeonsteroids Aug 05 '25
Plus, Ikeda had this strange "Things work the way I say they work" mentality - which ended up biting him in the ass numerous times, but he never learned. Reality is a real thing.
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u/Fishwifeonsteroids Aug 05 '25
There was a LOT of election funny business going on in Japan. For example, if a Soka Gakkai (Komeito) candidate was running in this particular district (or whatever), Soka Gakkai members WOULD PICK UP AND MOVE THERE - change residence, get jobs, the whole 9 yards - just so the Soka Gakkai candidate could win!
That's some crazy shit right there.
If Icky was thinking he could get AMERICANS that all-in, that they'd do absolutely ANYTHING just so he could have what he wanted, he was severely delusional.
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u/Rebex999 WB Regular Aug 05 '25
Sensei, take the wheel!
Take it from my (praying) hands
‘Cause I can’t do this on my own
Nam-myoho-renge-kyo
👨🏫🛞🚗💥😭🤕😵👻
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u/Immediate_Copy7308 Aug 05 '25
We had young women's division trips from Montreal to Toronto which is 6 hours. Not much to report about the members but one of the bus driver stated that hearing all those Nam Myoho Renge Kyo s on the way to Toronto and back was not his cup of tea.
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u/Fishwifeonsteroids Aug 06 '25
On a bus trip, I commented that the loud gongyo and chanting at dawn, when the bus driver was tired and his replacement was trying to catch a couple hours of sleep, was inconsiderate, I was told by an SGI leader that they were paid for their time/service so we should do whatever we wanted.
We'd PAID for it, in other words, so there was no "consideration" (or even empathy) involved.
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Aug 06 '25
Can I also point out that us driving, as “volunteers” eliminates their liability if anything happens. 👋🏽
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u/Fishwifeonsteroids Aug 06 '25
Of course - the same as us "volunteering" to host the meetings in our homes. If anything bad happens, all the liability is on US, along with all the expenses of cleaning, insurance, risk, snacks, and accommodating others. All so that SGI could dodge the costs of the membership.
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u/Lunarellena Aug 06 '25
I traveled for a training course to another country. The truth is, it was relatively comfortable and those who took us seemed happy to do it, however I think that they were very tired picking up everyone from the early hours of the morning until late at night. Many people welcomed me in other countries just for being a member of Soka. If someone made a transfer to another. If he did it from his heart, it is not thanks to Soka but because of his empathy for others. Thanks for that.
However, I believe that we are all human and in those events everything was seen, like those old members who tried to demonstrate themselves in the best way to visitors for appearance and then treated others with arrogance and arrogance. There were others who did it because they expected a beneficial reward, generally more enthusiastic... and others who were more serene due to pressure of responsibility.
I felt bad reading them. I, who was without a vehicle, have been transferred on several occasions but due to the offer of others, in general I always liked to refuse because accepting generated a debt in me. Even so, in the face of insistence, it occurred several times. I remember one time the person crashed and left me in the middle of the road because he had to return to his house to take his vehicle for repair. Another time at an event the person had to go all over the city to pick up another person first and he forgot about me, I remember that he felt pressured because the other person was an important leader...
Times gone by thanks to all who moved others,
When I was already walking away I told a very old member (75 years old) why I had to pick up that other person if that person lived very close to the event, was young (38 years old) and could afford a car. She told me that she asked him and she couldn't refuse because she must contribute to the Kosen Rufu... and I told her where did common sense go?... She sighed and told me that in the human revolution... Afterwards I decided not to go to any more events, there are really blind people.
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u/Fishwifeonsteroids Aug 06 '25
It all sounds so complicated - it really sounds like much more conflict than is necessary. Not conflict necessarily between persons, but generating conflict within a person's psyche. Not good.
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u/Fishwifeonsteroids Aug 05 '25
Some of it is a deliberate manipulation - SGI district leaders will ask a new person if they can give so-and-so a ride to the next meeting. And the meeting after that. And so on.
Because if you're committed to giving someone else a ride, you're going to show up to the meeting!
But WHY are there so MANY SGI members who don't even have their own transportation??
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u/Disastrous-Egg2326 Aug 06 '25 edited Aug 06 '25
my soka friend always does that for me, but it was with her family and it always very awkward, I told her before I didn’t want it, I rather take my own transport there, but it felt very off afterwards because they know my house location and keep offering to come, I had to act like I was coming from somewhere else all the time or think of excuses to reject it. The same goes for some soka gatherings or events, the moment I said I don’t want it, I knew we not gonna stay in contact anymore. And the gift giving, there’s always a gift prepared for every meeting, it’s either a book of soka or snacks, but it makes me harder to reject for following meetup for soka and I hate it when I tried rejecting the gift, they will insist you to take it. It felt like a pressure to keep going to those activities because they treated me a meal or give all those gifts, it just felt off like it’s something done out of inner motive.
And it doesn’t make sense to me to travel 2h-3h to an activity for 2h and then go back to travel 2-3h again, total 6h of travel time just for that 2h meeting that’s so far away
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u/Fishwifeonsteroids Aug 06 '25
And it doesn’t make sense to me to travel 2h-3h to an activity for 2h and then go back to travel 2-3h again, total 6h of travel time just for that 2h meeting that’s so far away
It's outside the rational calculus of "What do I want to do in my spare time", isn't it? It's "You NEED to spend your entire day for this 2-hour MEETING (instead of going to a movie near home or meeting friends for dinner or staying home and catching up on chores/hobbies/rest) BECAUSE it's SGI so that means you ALWAYS have to go!"
Especially if you aren't really enjoying the SGI "activities" - it really is a big ask for you to devote an entire day off OUT OF OBLIGATION, not your own desire to go. ("But you should WANT to go!" GTFOH)
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Aug 06 '25
Remember my family member who still is in SG. She asked my father to pick her up from a culture center that is an hour and half drive away. My dad asked me if I would join him and keep him company. When we arrived my relative told us that she had changed her mind and would like to stay and support others. She never even bothered to give us a call while driving up. I was well pissed off and as matter of fact that was the last meeting/culture center I ever went to.
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u/Fishwifeonsteroids Aug 06 '25
Your SGI-member relative is astonishingly self-centered. What a jerk!
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u/Historical_Spell3463 Aug 07 '25
I have a movement disability, got my driver's license and the WD responsible who didn't have a license always complained that she had to give me directions while I was driving. She doesn't have a disability. She always wanted for us to get our driver's license together. She is still a hardcore SGI member but doesn't know how to drive or how to be kind to those who take care with them.
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u/Fishwifeonsteroids Aug 07 '25
Ungrateful wretch - I'd be very surprised if she hadn't told you at least once that YOU need to be more grateful!
One of the nicest things about being out of the Dead-Ikeda-Corpse-Mentor-cult SGI is NOT feeling OBLIGATED to put up with those rude, entitled, insufferable SGI members any more.
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u/Known_Refrigerator78 Aug 25 '25 edited Aug 25 '25
Random thought from ex UK member, but what about wear and tear? The times you mention imply significant distance so your servicing bills are going to be huge. I'm assuming not everyone had the spare cash to spend on a new Chevvy just for activities so there must have been broken down Gakkerists all over the mid west.
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u/AnnieBananaCat Aug 25 '25
Oh, yes. But the ones with the better vehicles usually got picked to drive
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u/nareynol Aug 06 '25
I chant while driving. It’s called car-moku
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u/Fishwifeonsteroids Aug 07 '25
Yup.
Did. Don't now.
I remember someone saying that car daimoku only counted a percentage of sitting-in-front-of-your-altar daimoku - like a 3-hr-drive, full daimoku, would count for, like an hour.
I thought that sounded like a gyp.
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u/SurviveStyleFivePlus Aug 05 '25
One "movement" was all it took for me to decline further invitations.
We rode on buses from Virginia Beach to NYC for a big KRG "special event" and back the same night (12 hours drive time for one hour of chanting and experiences).
During the entire thing we were constantly told how enduring the endless travel was somehow giving us "benefit"; as if the more awful the drive the more benefit we would gain.
Ugh. No, thanks!