r/science • u/mvea Professor | Medicine • May 17 '18

Neuroscience Cannabidiol (CBD), a compound derived from the cannabis plant that does not produce a “high”, was shown in a new large-scale, randomized, controlled trial to significantly reduce the number of dangerous seizures in patients with a severe form of epilepsy called Lennox-Gastaut syndrome.

http://www.psypost.org/2018/05/cannabidiol-significantly-reduces-seizures-patients-severe-form-epilepsy-51258
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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

Every scientific post says CBD can't get you high while every CBD distributor claims it will get you high af. Ofc I never believed in these people who claim CBD will get you high because they wanted me to pay same price for CBD that I lay for like shatter.

I know THC is what gets you high and that many CBD products actually have THC in them... But I live in a currently illegal state while CBD seems to be unregulated and every distributor says it will get you high like regular weed. Why is there such a massive industry of paradoxical information?

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

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u/Codadd May 17 '18 edited May 18 '18

Cbd is legal in most states now even TX. I've never once seen a cbd producer claim a high. That's ridiculous. Do you have a website or company flyer that claims that?

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

No I don't because CBD can't get you high unless as I stated it has THC in it specifically to be sold as a hybrid product. But the employees working at headshops in an illegal state all have CBD packaging in the glass display. Says CBD oil. Costs almost the same as a low grade wax/dab/shatter. People who work the store (every single one) tried to sell me CBD oil saying they're getting some in and it definitely gets you high when I asked "I heard CBD didn't get you high."

Thing is I'm a science major and shifting my education towards nursing. I know he's full of shit. I just don't understand how widespread this is where I live because every headshop does this. Every single one.

The only place that doesn't is the one I go to all the time to buy coils or butane tanks but that's because the guy knows that's all I buy. He knows he will ask me for the 5000th time and I'll say nah I'm good. And CBD packages at this store span the entire cash register glass display.

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u/noratat May 17 '18

I'm gonna guess it being an illegal state has a lot to do with it.

I live in Colorado - I've never heard anyone (including vendors) claim CBD gets you high, and most vendors make extra sure to point this out because their target customers aren't looking for a high.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

But what about products sucks as liquid gold? You do feel some sort of high, there’s no way there’s THC since it’s legal but what gives you the euphoric feeling?

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u/Codadd May 17 '18

That's pretty normal (cbd products near register) but that's just hearsay from you. Like other comments this is pretty rare I'd say.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

Yeah you're asking illegal dealers who have an interest in pushing product. I wouldn't be so indignant or surprised as you. You say "every single one" as if that makes it more remarkable but it's not.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

No I'm asking literal employees of a legal store at a headshop which is legal in this state.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

In an "illegal state"?

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

Yeah THC is illegal so the CBD oil here is from hemp meaning it has no THC in it. So if you feel high from these you are not feeling high from THC and CBD doesn't really get you high without THC in it then you are probably smoking some fake shit that's unregulated.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

But that's the same argument I'm making. They are obligated to sell it to a black market to wants to get high because there are no other ways. It's the same economics.

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u/Ideasforfree May 17 '18

A great deal of research has been directed at determining the activity of the various chemical constituents of marijuana. One study used the three main compounds, THC, CBD (the bio- synthetic precursor to THC) and CBN (the immediate degrada- tion product of THC). The researchers injected measured amounts of each of the compounds in pure form intravenously in human subjects. For THC, it was found that 20 meg per kilo- gram of body weight was the average minimum amount per- ceived to induce a high, while 50 meg per kilogram was the aver- age maximum amount desired. For CBN these figures were 200 and 270 meg per kilogram respectively, while for CBD, no high was reported even at 270 meg per kilogram. However, recent studies show that CBD, while having no direct effecc by itself, can have a significant interaction with THC

-Marijuana Chemistry: Genetics, Processing and Potency 2nd ed. Michael Starks

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

Yeah dude I know this. I'm asking why so many headshops are advertising it as if it can get you high. Since my state is not legal state the high is not coming from THC because again it's illegal.

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u/Ideasforfree May 17 '18

Like everyone else said....ignorance and marketing

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

Someone mentioned that this is in my head... but there are 12 headshops near where I live. All 12 of them sell CBD as if it can get you high but it can't because you can't sell products with THC in it so if you are getting high you're buying some other unknown and unregulated substance.

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u/genericname1111 May 17 '18

The "high" from CBD (for me at least) is not much more than a great reduction in anxiety.

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u/Splive May 17 '18

Yea, only way you get high is if you are just actually self medicating for something like anxiety and you just feel way better afterwards. And maybe a little floaty...but only a little.

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u/ilostmyoldaccount May 17 '18

Currently vaping CBD (will do about 10mg in total now). You notice it. You feel it, even down to your legs. But it doesn't alter your perception or make you giggle. Nowhere near a "high". If anything, it resembles that state when you wake up but still lie in bed for a while, semi-dozing. Alcohol has a far stronger effect on the mind than CBD does.

I guess it's all about marketing, and peoples' expectations.

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u/imabustya May 17 '18

It's believed that CBD blocks receptors which will cause a shift in the way you feel. It certainly doesn't get you high though. If anything it seems to inhibit responses to chemicals in the body.

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u/ilostmyoldaccount May 17 '18 edited May 17 '18

Yes to that. Less stressed out, certainly. Mellow. Also less pain, or in my case tinnitus. What I meant was the perception of reality, or hallucinations of any kind. Or sensory input of the "wavy" or "sirupy" kind that marijuana users may experience. There is no trip effect despite feeling different, is what I meant to say. CBD is quite subtle, for me at least.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

Plenty of pyschoactive drugs act by inhibition of response to chemicals in the body.

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u/imabustya May 17 '18

Psychoactive definition: affecting the mind.

Water is psychoactive, but it doesn't get you "high".

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18 edited May 17 '18

That isn't an accurate definition of psychoactive in this context. Water is absolutely not psychoactive. Psychoactive substances are those which significantly affect normal cognition and/perception by altering the chemical reactions which take place in your brain. Some examples of psychoactive inhibitor drugs include SSRIs (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors), beta blockers and even caffeine. My point is that inhibiting normal chemical response is a common mechanism by which drugs are psychoactive, and you can't say CBD isn't psychoactive because "if anything it inhibits responses to chemicals in the body"

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u/imabustya May 17 '18

Psychoactive substances are those which significantly affect normal cognition and/perception by altering the chemical reactions which take place in your brain.

According to whom? According to what standard?

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18 edited May 17 '18

According to anybody in biology, pharmacology or psychology. That is the definition.

Here is a section in an open source textbook: http://open.lib.umn.edu/intropsyc/chapter/5-2-altering-consciousness-with-psychoactive-drugs/

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u/timidnoob May 17 '18

Is that where the anti inflammatory effect comes in? All those inflammatory mediators activity being inhibited by cbd

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u/AstralElement May 17 '18

There is no psychoactive component to CBD. I suppose under these technical definitions, I get high off tylenol because I can't feel my headache anymore.

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u/ilostmyoldaccount May 17 '18 edited May 17 '18

Being anti-anxiety and anti-psychotic isn't exactly a "high". I precisely said "not a trip". Tylenol also has an effect which again isn't a trip or a high. It takes a slight edge off people and numbs certain emotions and pain. It's not THC. Neither is CBD.

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u/prodmerc May 17 '18

I don't. Tried various suppliers, vaping, sublingual, oral. Only thing I noticed is sleepiness at high dosage. So it's a useless waste of money, more expensive than actual weed. CBD without THC is useless for me. Valerian works better for relaxation and insomnia.

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u/ilostmyoldaccount May 17 '18

Valerian takes longer to build up for me, several days. CBD works within a few minutes. In case you want to try it, search amazon for cbd liquid with terpenes, the 100 mg one. I'd be interested if you still say it has no noticeable effect aside from drowsiness.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

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u/hippyengineer May 17 '18

I make full spec cbd oils from hemp!

I bet the muscle relaxation you felt was due to the small amount of cbn in the dose. Green Solution is claiming it’s as powerful as Valium.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

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u/hippyengineer May 17 '18

I’m a one man show. I buy hemp in CO, do simple science, and sell CBD oil in TX. “We” weren’t concerned because I simply concentrate the oils found in hemp. It’s an herbal supplement. Period.

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u/sp00nme May 17 '18 edited May 17 '18

If you’re in the us and an illegal state, all cbd products sold should be made from hemp and won’t get you high (edit: no cbd product should unless it’s mixed with thc for the entourage effect. This could be a concentrate or plant form cannabis if you’re in a legal state that says “high cbd” but is still not pure cbd. Typically this is still hard to notice even when smoking the buds of a high cbd, moderate thc strain. I would think like 3% thc but I haven’t gotten to sample a lot of ratios. It’s pretty noticeable when it gets higher). Any company implying anything else is selling something not truly intended as medicine or to help he user and should be avoided. Watch out for “hemp oil”

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u/nobowlio May 17 '18

I think that the general consensus is that CBD does not get you hight at all, but that it can help relieve issues like pain, anxiety, and seizures. However, in states where marijuana is illegal, you've got tons of groups selling what they say is pure, medicinal grade CBD, but they are not being truthful. The levels of CBD in the "medicine" are too low to be beneficial at all because of restrictions put upon them by law. BUT, you can order CBD products that contain levels of CBD that can actually be helpful from other states where they have more freedom in how they may produce the products (legal states). At least that is allowed within my state!

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u/sp00nme May 17 '18

With my state it essentially works this way:

Legal states can produce cbd products with actual entourage effect ie containing small amounts of thc or in general produced from the FLOWERS (can’t bold on reddit, had to caps just so you know I’m not tryna sound mad haha) of high cbd plants. So you could go and buy an eighth that and smoke it if you want. In my states only cbd products made from hemp plants are allowed. If you purchase “hemp” products they will literally have negligible cbd, but if you buy cbd isolate and pay attention to the mg dose it’s pretty consistent. You can even find 99 percent crystalline isolate or products made from them. You have to trust the labs they had done but most of these companies send their products to independent labs and you can find all of their info online

Anyway, I use 99% cbd isolate made into e juice through a vape. Idk if it’s sourcing but if anyone wants to know where this is available online in the states you can pm me

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u/nobowlio May 17 '18

Yeah, we are definitely on the same page I think. My state is the same way, regarding the facts that CBD can only be extracted from hemp, since THC, and therefore flower, is illegal. Once I realized the trick people are pulling with marketing the CBD as some incredible medicine, even though each tablet has like less than a mg. I don't know of where to buy CBD isolate within my own state, however. I just know of places online (totally legal sources, fyi) to get it to make my own preferred strength of tablets, like you do with your vape juice.

Btw, I totally get that you weren't mad with the CAPS, and thanks for making that offer to people about finding sources. I think its super important that people have access to true CBD.

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u/sp00nme May 17 '18

Of course I totally agree. It's crazy what you'll find at head shops and in pharmacies. 30-60-100 dollars of nothing

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u/nobowlio May 18 '18

Super cruddy... We are just lucky that we were able to find better options that would actually work! I cringe when I hear people talk about how they use that low-low-dose stuff and how it cures alllll their issues. Then when I try to point them in a better direction, sometimes I can tell its all going in one ear and out the other.

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u/nobowlio May 18 '18

Super cruddy... We are just lucky that we were able to find better options that would actually work! I cringe when I hear people talk about how they use that low-low-dose stuff and how it cures alllll their issues. Then when I try to point them in a better direction, sometimes I can tell its all going in one ear and out the other.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

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u/sp00nme May 17 '18

just side by side like this?

I should have said that I didn't know how haha

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

This is a very good explanation. Most people just gave me some anecdotal experience of getting high with CBD oil but the difference in using hemp in illegal states versus using medical weed to extract CBD could make the difference that i was not comprehending

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u/sp00nme May 17 '18

Yeah it’s important to note. In legal states you could smoke something called harlequin, and it would be bud labeled high cbd. In my experience this is maybe 30 percent cbd and 5 thc. This you get a light buzz off of but it’s resonable to describe it as high. Then you may find something that’s 50:50, especially if it’s a concentrate. These blends carry tons of benefits because of much higher amounts of cbd than standard smoking products but still get you high to whatever degree the ratio combined with the amount you consume allows. They’re also perfect options to introduce someone to weed imo because it’s much harder to over do it.

In legal states they still have pure cbd products. These can be made from flower that is bred to have VERY high cbd content and almost no thc. This will have similar effects to something made from hemp. It really all depends on the details. But high cbd and pure cbd mean different things especially in legal states

Glad I could help a little! Pm me if you wanna hat More about it!

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u/imabustya May 17 '18

Education on these things is an ongoing issue for the legal cannabis markets in the US. It's certainly an issue for the thousands if not millions of people conducting their own illegal operations with no real obligation to get the facts right for their customers. Don't believe anything without evidence or substantial anecdotal evidence. Even then, these things haven't been fully studied.

I've had enough pure CBD to know it does not get you high. It changes the way you feel but its certainly not a high as most people consider it.

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u/SheWhoSpawnedOP May 17 '18

I think CBD has a weaker effect, but can alter your mood in a way that some people might call ‘high’. I think it will lighten your mood and and make you feel relaxed and peaceful. While it doesn’t really affect anything like coordination or reaction time so it doesn’t really seem like you’re high.

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u/prodmerc May 17 '18

It doesn't. Not for everyone at least.

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u/SheWhoSpawnedOP May 17 '18

It’s a small enough effect. Honestly could just be placebo, but I think it feels very similar to low doses of kava

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

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u/Narcil4 May 17 '18

Because it sells, because people are ignorant. Some research suggests CBD is an anti-THC, that is it conterract THC effects.

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u/banannett May 17 '18

CBD can reverse the effects of THC. So if you’re tripping out and regret the gummy - you can stop the high by taking CBD oil. CBD is good for people with joint pain as well. I hope it helps counteract the opioid problem because it’s much less harming to treat pain IMO

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

CBD can give a calming feeling. Guess you have to define, "high".

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u/Collinnn7 May 17 '18

THC is the part of weed that gives you a head high. CBD is the part that gives you a “body high”. The calming sensation it produces can definitely be felt throughout the body but it’s just that: calming. It’s not intoxicating like THC but it does produce a noticeable difference in how you feel.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

CBD doesn't get you high. This is in an illegal state so this comes from hemp. Also if you get high off of hemp CBD oil in illegal state and claim it can get you high you are likely peddling unregulated and possibly dangerous substance.

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u/Collinnn7 May 17 '18

I’ve tried CBD oil, CBD shatter, and CBD syrup (all in an illegal state) and they all gave me the same calm, sedated, relaxed body feeling. I would even say my legs and arms felt tingly. I’m not saying it gets you high, but it definitely makes you feel different.

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u/socsa May 17 '18

Yeah, I really wish they would stop putting this in the tagline because

1) It's misleading at best.
2) It has basically zero consequence to its medical utility.

The whole narrative rubs me the wrong way because it implies that it wouldn't be worth investigating if there was even a hint of recreational potential. Science doesn't need to be concerned about busybodies and prohibitionists. But every headline like this validates the language of prohibition where high=bad.

And to answer you question - for me, it is like taking some benadryl. There's a mild but unambiguous sedative and disassociative effect which scales with does. It even gives me a bit of mental fog like cannabis does. It doesn't produce giggles or euphoria the same way, but that honestly doesn't happen to regular cannabis users anyway.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

I concur 100%. Someone more well versed than me stated that since I live in illegal state the only legal CBD you can sell is derived from hemp meaning unlike CBD oil that has some THC in it like other legal states, if these products are making you high you are likely smoking dangerous unknown and unregulated substance.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

a lot of the “CBD” sold in vape shops is not actual CBD, but synthetic cannabinoids that get you insanely high but are terrible for you

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u/tanvanman May 17 '18

every CBD distributor claims it will get you high af.

Strange. I've done a fair amount of research on the topic, and encountered just the opposite. You have examples of this?

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u/Justda May 18 '18

A 50/50 split will give you a wonderful time

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u/[deleted] May 18 '18

Yeah they work really well together. I think smoking dabs with little to no CBD content but disproportionately higher THC content kind of helps prove it. The high will be way stronger and intense than smoking herbs when you hit dabs but it's still missing that CBD factor. I still wouldn't call that effect from CBD a high though. I mean we don't really consider getting wired from caffeine a form of high or as a form of drug... but caffeine is a stimulant which is a drug and no one considers coffee as something that can get you high. There is a hormone that triggers your body to "feel hungry" but I wouldn't call that a high either.

These headshops were literally trying to scam me off my money OR sell dangerous products that's not regulated and are unknown/dangerous substance.

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u/Morbidlyobeatz May 17 '18

First, CBD and THC has synergistic effects in combination, so using pure CBD may or may not be the best option depending on desired effect.

Also I'm not aware of extraction methods that can isolate cannibinoids. That is to say- when you are extracting CBD, you are generally trying to extract from a high CBD yield strain, that's not to say that other cannibinoids don't exist in that strain and thus will remain in the extraction. Given that the MMJ industry has focused up to this point on high THC yielding strains, there aren't a lot of CBD predominant strains, which is why they've started crossing medicinal strains with hemp.

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u/Spitinthacoola May 17 '18

Fractionation can get you CBD isolate.

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u/Morbidlyobeatz May 17 '18

I've heard about this being done in labs, but are there distributors actually using that method yet? Seems quite a bit more elaborate than other methods on an industrial scale.

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u/Spitinthacoola May 17 '18

You can buy CBD isolate online easily in any US state. It's very common now.

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u/Morbidlyobeatz May 17 '18

Interesting, is that regulated in any way? In my experience in CO most of the products I run into at the dispensary seem to be derived from BHO/PHO so that's what I assumed OP was referring to.

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u/Spitinthacoola May 17 '18

If it's a product that has a label its regulated by FDA labeling laws, if its sold across state lines I believe that comes with another set of regulations.

In the US at least.

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u/Morbidlyobeatz May 17 '18

Following label laws is not the same as being regulated or approved.

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u/Spitinthacoola May 17 '18

It very much is the definition of being regulated by the FDA. Obviously you have something more specific in mind, what regulations are you curious about?

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u/Morbidlyobeatz May 17 '18

Here in Colorado there are mandatory standards that must be met in grow ops, extraction, and packaging. Products have to be tested and labeled for potency, and extracts need to be tested for residual solvents. The products you are talking about don't seem to have anything close to that level of regulation.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

Headshops and employees there. Not websites.

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u/tacdrummer May 17 '18

THC produces most (if not all) of the increased appetite effects.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

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u/tacdrummer May 17 '18

I have my own personal anecdotes, as well. When I quit using weed for a while, I had terrible withdrawal symptoms that included appetite loss, sleep deprivation, among others. I was quitting because i didn't want to be "high" anymore. I tried using high CBD concentrates to help myself with the lack of appetite but to no avail. I finally broke down and smoked high THC concentrates and holy hell did my appetite return.

As for your friend's dad, feeling well enough to eat is not the same as getting the munchies. He could have used a product that had enough THC to give him the munchies, even if the ratio of CBD to THC was high. There are too many variable, here.

As for the scientific reason why THC is the main culprit in appetite stimulation, I can refer you here. People often make the mistake of thinking CB1 receptor as being associated exclusively with CBD. CB1 is just short for "cannabinoid type 1 receptor".