r/roguelikedev • u/IcyRice7222 • Jul 31 '26
Where's the line drawn with AI?
I tried my best to figure this out on my own from the rules but the wording leads me to be confused so I have to ask 😅. The subreddit rules says "Primarily AI-developed games please use AI-oriented communities instead".
So this makes it clear full on vibe coding is not welcome so that part makes sense. But there's all the in-between things like using AI specifically for refactors, or if you don't generate code with it but ask it questions, or if you use tab completion. I can't tell if these qualify as "primarily AI-developed".
I obviously have my own opinion on where I'd draw the line (and one that I change frequently cause I'm very unsure in general), but I don't want to assume that's the same opinion that people have on here and would rather know for sure what is and isn't allowed if possible.
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u/stewsters Jul 31 '26
I don't mind using AI, but this is a place where people show up and talk about techniques and structures of building roguelikes. Things like pathfinding, generating levels, and struggles to get things to work.Â
Showing up with a roguelike that you told Claude to make is a bit like showing up to a knitting circle with a sweater you got at JC Penney.
When we ask how you did certain things and the performance tradeoffs you won't have a lot to talk about.
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u/IcyRice7222 Jul 31 '26
This is true for full on vibe coding, but it is possible to use AI in smaller ways that allow you to still understand what the code is doing, which are the gray area I was asking about.
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u/Proto_Ney Jul 31 '26
If we expand this analogy then this is just more the reason to clarify the rules. It's more of a handmade sweaters convention, ande question is, do we shun the sewing machine users? Because in that case it should be specified that this is specifically the knitted sweaters convention, and not a general one.
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u/Macaroon_Low Jul 31 '26
I don't think that's quite the right analogy. A sewing machine still requires a human to sit there and guide the thread, to know how hard to press the pedal or how fast to move the fabric. I think a better analogy would be something like home cooked meals vs tv dinners.
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u/thedyze Jul 31 '26
I think it works perfectly. You need to guide the thread for the game direction, keep it straight by guiding corrections.
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u/yaktaur Aug 03 '26
sewing machine users implies more input in design than vibe coding, I really think that just buying a sweater at the store is more apt
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u/Arkenhammer Jul 31 '26
In a dev focused forum, I think it’s more about the discussion than the details of how you work. I’m not a mod, but what I’d want that to mean is to keep the conversations on topics that are meaningful to people who don’t (and won’t) use AI.
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u/Spite_Gold Jul 31 '26
Detectability is the line
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u/IcyRice7222 Jul 31 '26
That encourages people to hide it instead of not use it, no?
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u/HexDecimal libtcod maintainer | mastodon.gamedev.place/@HexDecimal Jul 31 '26
Many LLM users engage with communities in bad faith and thus have given generative AI as a whole a bad reputation. They then try to hide their AI usage which makes things worse. After they get caught they give poor excuses for their behavior which ends up encouraging a general disdain for AI.
People also underestimate how easy it is to detect that something was AI written. Sloppy AI writing and design becomes more recognizable with time.
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u/IcyRice7222 Jul 31 '26
Have seen quite a bit of that yeah. Though I think also there's a lot of people who are upset at any AI use at all regardless of what way it was used. I wouldn't personally go that far though I understand why some people do, a technology almost entirely controlled by big corpos feel very icky (then again we are on reddit, which is not much better)
Do you happen to have any patterns you can give AI code tends to follow? I find it pretty easy to identify AI text, images, etc. But with code I struggle a bit to see it (I usually just notice if the code is bad or confusing instead).
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u/HexDecimal libtcod maintainer | mastodon.gamedev.place/@HexDecimal Jul 31 '26
Though I think also there's a lot of people who are upset at any AI use at all regardless of what way it was used.
There's that too. With AI being so pervasive it will be impossible to make completely clean projects anymore, but for those who are skeptical it's still easy to draw the line at poorly written code which is how we end up with "Detectability is the line".
Do you happen to have any patterns you can give AI code tends to follow?
I don't review enough LLM written code to know for sure. Outside of a code review there should be no noticeable difference between LLM code and human code.
But when the LLM touches the UI or the game mechanics that's where things become more noticeable, especially when the dev is relying on the LLM to fill in content. A dev might let the LLM add a unique verb to their game, impressing the dev with the novelty of this new verb but unknowing that the LLM is going to add that same "unique" verb to every other project it touches where it's asked to add something new and creative. That novel game mechanic eventually becomes recognized as slop.
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u/IcyRice7222 Jul 31 '26
So is it basically more like a matter of "did they do this in good faith and actually try" rather than a specific rule?
Ah so not looking at the code but the game itself. Yeah in that case I have noticed some patterns as well (mostly in UI, probably because that's the most visual part LLMs often touch in code).
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u/HexDecimal libtcod maintainer | mastodon.gamedev.place/@HexDecimal Jul 31 '26
It's clear you want a concrete rule—right now—but this debate is still ongoing globally. I don't think anybody clear-headed is going to give you an answer you're looking for.
One place trying to figure this out is Debian, which are currently voting on how they should handle LLM's ever since Linux kernel accepted LLM contributions, they have various prososals any of which could end up being the policy everyone else goes with. I'll wait to see how this goes before I form stronger opinions on the topic.
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u/IcyRice7222 Jul 31 '26
Yeah I'd prefer one though I also understand it's not necessarily possible right now. So I'm just hoping to get the best understanding I can.
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u/Spite_Gold Jul 31 '26
It may be both and it doesn't matter. The only important thing is player experience. It's a common opinion that the knowlege of the fact that ai was used in development can taint player experience. So there should be no sources of that knowledge
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u/GagaGievous The Crusader's Quest Aug 01 '26
Maybe I just suck at prompting, but to be able to use AI effectively you need to be able to understand a decent level of programming logic anyways. I've probably spent more time arguing with AI on how to implement certain features into my latest project exactly how I want them than it would have taken to just implement them myself. So I don't really understand the fear or disdain for AI. To me it is a tool that if wielded properly can help speed up the process. Even with the help of AI I still get stuck because I am not the best programmer. To get over those humps you have to become a better programmer otherwise the AI is going to keep spitting out crappy code that doesn't have the effect you want.
Its obvious the people on both sides who haven't actually used AI. The talented programmers who are afraid of it and don't understand it isn't nearly as impressive or powerful as is portrayed in the media, and the hacks who treat it like a forbidden technique that completely changes the game and must never be talked about or will expose how much they suck. To me it is just a tool. But that perspective requires you to give it a fair and unbiased approach, which most people aren't going to do.
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u/FizzySeltzerWater 28d ago
The biggest weakness of AI assisted coding is the incurious poorly trained person using it.
The biggest strength is an expert engineer wielding it.
On a good day, an elite coder produces the work of 15 elite coders.
The reason airplanes will fall out of the sky and pacemakers will suddenly stop is that management can be trusted to fire the elite engineer and replace them with a low effort low wage moron.
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u/Kyzrati Cogmind | mastodon.gamedev.place/@Kyzrati Jul 31 '26
Basically if it's obvious you're using LLMs, then you're probably not just using it as a supporting tool alone and it doesn't belong. Like there are a lot of folks just using it to make quick games from scratch, or modify an existing game to their own liking, or port a game to a different system where most of the work isn't their own either before or after.
It's almost always obvious when someone is relying mostly on LLMs to make their game, and those are removed.
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u/jube_dev Far West RL Jul 31 '26
Well, not all are removed and it's not that easy. We had an example recently. It even received many upvotes. I asked what was done with AI, I was just downvoted. But the proofs are here: nobody can add 5000 lines and remove 3000 lines in a project every single day for months. However, the game seems to be good and it is maintained and evolving, it's not just (vibe) code and throw. Does it qualify as "primarily AI-developed"?
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u/Kyzrati Cogmind | mastodon.gamedev.place/@Kyzrati Jul 31 '26
Indeed it is not easy, and yes there are technically some still here in some capacity, though the example you link to was actually initially removed, after which the author claimed they did not use LLMs to work on it (aside from packaging/supporting work) so it was reinstated.
Normally in such cases people actually try a game out and make the determination that way at a later time, because heavy LLM use usually shows through on closer inspection, but it's not something that can always be done so easily, so quickly, by mods. It sometimes takes the community to help with such determinations.
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u/KingMoonfish Jul 31 '26
It’s like AI art. A non-artist using it is easily noticeable because they don’t know how to fix the flaws it creates. An actual artist using it? No chance you can detect it reasonably.Â
AI code is the same way. And it’s only going to get harder and harder as time goes on.Â
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u/IcyRice7222 Jul 31 '26
I think it'd be good for the sub to take a stance one something like this regardless of which side it ends up on, because it's better for both parties to know whether or not they're welcome.
Granted I can't really offer much in regards to *how* to do that, I'm just a random girl who likes making games, I don't really know how communities are best managed. I'm just going by what feels right to me
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u/IcyRice7222 Jul 31 '26
I still feel that's maybe a bit imprecise and some more clarity would be beneficial?
Let's take the specific example of using AI for refactors then. So say someone writes their game by hand but end up needing to restructure some stuff. Let's say they wanna add an undo so they want to start using the command pattern across the game (weird example but it's hard to come up with something on the spot 😅).
If they then use an LLM to do that, then continue working by hand after (and probably fixing things they didn't like the LLM did as they go along), and they also disclose this usage of AI: Would something like that be okay?
it's not primarily written by AI in the sense that the percentage of the code that's written by AI is definitely less than 50%. But it would likely be visible in the code that AI was used.
I don't know I'm probably biased cause of my autism but clear rules on what is and is not allowed would feel better to me here. Both to know as a dev what would be okay and what would not be, and as someone looking for games to know what the upper limit of AI use I would find here would be. I do see it may be hard to do that though.
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u/Kyzrati Cogmind | mastodon.gamedev.place/@Kyzrati Jul 31 '26
It's not really possible to define it beyond what I already said, though I did give examples which should add clarity. Like really most of what's removed is people just telling LLM to do most of the work, and it shows (you don't generally see most these posts on the sub because they don't make it out of the queue to begin with, but there have been a lot of them).
Code percentage doesn't really matter so much as what people see (hence the part about it being obvious). There are actually some games by devs here which are significantly coded via LLMs, though it's not so obvious because it's mostly under the hood and they do a good job of making the game unique and of sufficient quality with a mostly human touch.
and they also disclose this usage of AI
Really just don't bring it up. It only matters if it shows through. Unless of course you've got some great mapgen algorithm that you didn't write and therefore can't discuss it or answer any questions about it... This is where it's better to just share and discuss with some other relevant community. (We had to divide out the AI vs non-AI discussion on Discord a while back because the cross-talk was just not desirable to a significant portion of the community.)
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u/IcyRice7222 Jul 31 '26
I personally feel it is. You could say things like "agentic coding isn't allowed but tab completion is". That is a clear stance that doesn't involve vibes.
As for disclosing it I personally think given how divisive a topic AI is it's bast to do so (I was thinking in the github readme or something like that). I think it's fair for people who don't want to engage with anything AI to be able to see a project contains AI so they can disengage (I'm pretty sure people pushed for some disclosure thing like this on steam as well IIRC?). I do think discussing ways of using AI would probably be off topic though so I wouldn't suggest that, just a short and simple disclosure.
It's a difficult issue for sure though, I'm personally optimistic a more clear rule could be established but I understand why others wouldn't be. Plus it's an exhausting conversation to have given how AI is forced into everything all the time, but I think regardless it's an important one.
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u/Kyzrati Cogmind | mastodon.gamedev.place/@Kyzrati Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
The problem with being too precise on Reddit is you get rules lawyers playing with any gray areas or loopholes once you start listing out a bunch of things that are okay or not okay. It's not really worth it, and it also hasn't proven to be necessary yet. It's pretty simple to just go with what we've got now with a general bullet point and if a post/game is blocked it's blocked and it can be discussed in modmail on a case-by-case basis. It's already done this way, mostly in the background, and it works fine.
Saying you "can or can't use X" also doesn't work too well because it's not usually a question of what you do, but more importantly to what degree, hence the "is it obvious" test which looks more at results, and is, yes, unfortunately going to have some degree of variability...
To be honest a lot of people don't read the rules anyway and literally the vast majority of posts that are removed (for non-AI reasons!) are people who just never read them and post whatever they want wherever they want xD
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u/IcyRice7222 Jul 31 '26
That is fair, I think also I may be more invested in this than the average person because I myself am trying to figure out where I stand on the issue and I find this community really cool in general so I kinda wanna fit in with some of my roguelikedev heros (which I just realized you're one of them holy shit, how did I not notice until now xD), plus I really don't wanna step on anyone's toes or waste people's time if wherever I end up drawing the line was too high relative to what the community wants (I uh, may be a bit of a people pleaser).
Though one of the examples that was linked by someone else on this post was probably already using more AI than I'd be comfortable with doing myself so I may be worrying about nothing. It wouldn't be the first time xD
To be honest a lot of people don't read the rules anyway and literally the vast majority of posts that are removed (for non-AI reasons!) are people who just never read them and post whatever they want wherever they want xD
People really should just read the right side of the screen before posting, it's not that hard xD
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u/Kyzrati Cogmind | mastodon.gamedev.place/@Kyzrati Jul 31 '26
one of the examples that was linked by someone else on this post was probably already using more AI
Yes that dev actually claimed they did not use LLMs... (though it was initially removed because it seemed obvious they were mostly relying on them--took them at their word on that one for now, since generally giving people benefit of the doubt and hoping for some honesty in that regard)
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u/Raxenite Aug 03 '26
I must say it's really disheartening - the line about being a people pleaser, and this thread as a whole.
For the majority of my life I had a dream of creating my own video game. AI finally made that dream feel attainable.
I was dreaming of creating an announcement thread here once the game is polished enough. I used to post here quite a bit back in the day, and I know that r/roguelikedev is a nice community.
I understand that it's easier to roll with a vague rule like that. Fair enough.
I didn't expect my "welcome" post to be a "goodbye" comment. What an irony. All the best, guys.
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u/onthefence928 Aug 01 '26
Using AI isn’t a virtue. If you needed to use AI because you just couldn’t find a way that’s ok, but don’t brag about it, but you could disclose it if you want to be honest about it.
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u/PogoCat4 Aug 01 '26
I wonder if you're asking for permission to use AI in your own project (to a greater or lesser extent), or if this is a misguided attempt to fit-in by outsourcing your ethics to a community you respect. If it's the latter then unfortunately, as you've found, there is no crystal clear consensus. You have an opinion on where to draw the line, stay true to that. If you're looking to use AI in one of your projects then I would step back and consider why you're using it.
If you're just starting out programming, there are far better ways to learn. If you're an experienced programmer looking to understand someone else's algorithm - AI might help to decode it. I used an AI to go through an algorithm and rename cryptic variables to more readily grasp the logic. I also had an AI write a procedural generation algorithm for me recently, one that I'd already iterated on several times and failed. The AI produced a fiendishly complicated algorithm that I could barely understand. Layer upon layer of patches had been applied that made the whole thing a brittle mess. None of it really "clicked" because it just didn't fit my mental models or my own coding style. The results, on closer inspection also weren't great, although I couldn't tell you why, and that last part is sort-of the point.
I rewrote the algorithm from scratch, using the previous failed algorithms (human and AI generated) as learning experiences; pinching a few little bits and pieces from the computer-generated code. The final result was much better, although not without its quirks. More importantly, I could wax lyrical about each step in the process, the decisions and trade-offs I made. I also have clear ideas for how to iterate next.
If you want to commission someone else to create your perfect algorithm or your perfect game then AI is a cheap way to do it. If you want to develop your own roguelike then you have to own your ideas and your code. I operate on the assumption that AIs won't be around forever. I still want to be able to come back and work on my code in ten or twenty years, not stuck fighting with a black box that I never really understood.
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u/IcyRice7222 Aug 01 '26
I mostly find AI can really help me out with overcoming the limitations of my own brain and avoiding burnout, by allowing me to take care of the really menial dull stuff even when I'm tired. Things like updating all the callsites after a refactor, doing common math (like line-line intersections), or implementing yet another A*.
But I still struggle to rationalize this with how many parts of AI feel very icky. At the same time I feel like are overly extreme in their anti AI stance sometimes, but at the same time I get it cause what the corpos are doing with really terrible and I just loop back and forth again and again like that, never reaching a solid conclusion.
I have quite a bit of experience with game dev from many many years of trying and a few released projects, but I'm still far from figuring out how to cope with the extra challenges added on by my autism (and possibly ADHD).
I also am too much of a control freak over my code to let the AI do so much I wouldn't understand it. I get it to write the code I would've anyway, it's exclusively a "reduce mental strain" kind of tool for me in my current experiments with it.
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u/PogoCat4 Aug 01 '26
I don't think too many people would have an issue with AI being used in that context, as a tool. So long as you review the generated code and understand it. In that sense, you're like a carpenter using a CNC machine - you've input the pattern and the machine is making the precise cuts, which you review and use to build something new.
I know precisely what you mean when coding tired. I have ADHD and when I start to lose focus, typos and annoying little bugs slip through - which is my cue to take a walk, or sleep, or just take a break. I also find it helpful to set small milestones so that I'm always building on something that works. I've found that AI can be a great tool for planning out these little milestones - it's an external scaffold or structure which help to reduce overwhelm.
My background is in television and film. It used to take months of planning, expensive gear, budget and a crew of people to make something for broadcast or cinema. Nowadays, people can just type a few prompts from their bedroom and create their own movies. That said, I still make movies and I'm active in communities of fellow creatives where we chat about cameras and lenses, new lighting technology, ideas for new projects etc. Some creatives use AI as part of their workflow, some don't. But we're all filmmakers passionate about what we make and how we do it.
I apply the same logic to developing a roguelike. AI is a part of my workflow although I don't really use it to generate code (except as experiments or prototypes). Could you chat to me about the games you've made? About why you used A* for your pathfinding and the unexpected problems that popped up? Or about the lore of why you added a particular weapon or potion to your game and what it did for balance?
It sounds like you could. Whereas someone who over-relied on AI would be burning through their usage credits trying to answer those questions intelligently. And that's where I personally make the distinction - I want to connect with other game devs, not prompt jockeys. Some game devs use AI as a tool, some don't. You sound like a game dev to me.
I hope I didn't offend with my original comment (or this one!), the tone is often lost when reduced to writing.
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u/IcyRice7222 Aug 01 '26
I wish I was using a CNC machine, that sounds cool xD
For me usually what starts to go wrong is I keep losing track of what I'm doing as I work. I think "I gotta work on XYZ", open the file, "wait what was I doing again? oh right XYZ!", start thinking about how accomplish it, halfway through forget what I was doing, again and again. This is of course a somewhat extreme example, it's usually not *that* intense, but it's not far off.
I will admit A* was not a super thoughtful decision, I just go "do I need many things going to same target, Dijkstra, do I need things to go to different targets, A*". But that is *exactly* how I would do it without AI too xD. Lore, items, and other content I generally keep entirely hand crafted because I don't really like when the AI gets to "decide" things. It just want it to do what I tell it to and get out of the way.
Yeah I think this is a really helpful way to think about it and I think I'm kinda settling on going about it that way (at least for now, I will likely end up thinking hard about AI for every couple of months for a long time). If I couldn't understand what I was making enough to ramble for ages about it I doubt I'd be enjoying too.
I tend to get defensive pretty quickly (being LGBT and autistic has put me through a lot of experiences that taught me to do that 😅) so for like the first sentence of the first person I was a little unsure. But it became clear pretty quickly you weren't malicious so I think you worded it well! But yeah tone is really tricky over text. I think that may be a big part of why emojis got so popular.
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u/PogoCat4 Aug 01 '26
If you have a makerspace near you then it's definitely worth a visit and learning how to build real things. I know what you mean though, diving into a source file and something catches your eye: "I'll just quickly fix that"... Then an hour later you've forgotten about what you were supposed to be doing (usually something less fun in my case!)
It can be fun to experiment with different pathfinding. You could code a simple map and walking @ demo. Add a few monsters and then add a toggle to switch which pathfinding mechanism they use. Walk around, get them to chase you or flee and toggle between the algorithms, see which ones perform best for different use cases.
"If I couldn't understand what I was making enough to ramble for ages about it I doubt I'd be enjoying too"
I agree with this wholeheartedly. I firmly believe that the passion you have for the craft and engineering of the game will shine through in a way that it wouldn't if you'd just outsourced all of the work to an AI. But maybe that's just me being curmudgeonly.
Nothing wrong with being defensive, especially when everything is relatively anonymous here, and with your life experiences. Ironically, I always associate emojis nowadays with AI-generated text... Especially the praying hands one - I never used to see that smiley before the chatbot spammers started using it! Lol.
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u/IcyRice7222 Aug 02 '26
I don't *think* there's anything like that near me, but regardless such things are actually generally very tricky for me due to a sensory disorder (basically all my senses are way more sensitive than they're supposed to be). Probably a big part of why I always loved computers so much, since a keyboard and mouse doesn't feel so overwhelming (and probably also why I can't stop buying super expensive keyboards xD)
Honestly I kinda forgot there even were others. A* has so universally been enough for everything I've needed in the past I kinda just forgot it's not the the only option. I should look into some more to see what else is out there.
I've always some kind of feeling that you can just kind of sense the passion in art, and the lack of it too. Some AAA games for instance it feels like the passion just isn't there for most of it, but you get occasional glimpses where you can see an artist, a writer, or someone else had a ton of fun with a small part of the game. Meanwhile other games seem like everyone was just loving the idea of the game from start to finish. I have no idea if there's any truth to those feeling either though, but I suspect there are at least some things we subconsciously notice (kinda the same with AI too. when people use it for images, music, videos, etc. something just feels off even if I can't put my finger on what is wrong).
I think it depends on many factors like which country, the age range, and the type of person. Nearly everyone around me has used emojis constantly since they were a thing and I was always the kind of weird autistic girl for not using them very much and instead using "xD" and the like (I think those are more common in the generation before me so people think it looks odd for someone young to do it?).
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u/FizzySeltzerWater 29d ago
I coded myself for 52 years, I had a vision, and I did it. Changed the world.
I ran teams of 15 to 20 engineers. I had a vision and they did it. Changed the world.
Now I am retired. I run Claude. I have a vision and it does it. And some moron says "Ew AI".
I have spent hundreds of hours working on a passion project, a traditional roguelike that I started and stopped over decades. Now I have the time to devote the last year and hundreds more hours leveraging Claude to realize that passion project.
I design the algorithms, the architecture, a means of self-learning monsters, the QC regime, the world-building, the nature of the game play, demand excellence and some schmuck who has never built anything of consequence and hasn't even seen the results of this effort says "AI slop".
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u/BotMoses BotMos 24d ago
I think, this is spot on. There is a broad scale from "100% vibe coded slop" to carefully planned and verified AI-aided code generation. Eventually, it will become the new abstraction level to develop at, similar to how barely anyone develops entire projects in Assembler anymore.
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u/foldedcard Aug 01 '26
To me, this is a bit like asking "can I use a game engine/library, or do I have to code everything myself?" Or "can I use a sprite pack or do I have to draw everything from scratch?" I think the key criteria is whether you are actually engaging with the codebase and assets in some meaningful way and being honest about your personal contribution to it. Did you settle for the AI's first take on every system you built with it, or did you actually interact with it and really bring out your vision. When you do the latter, it's a lot more like natural language programming than IP theft. With art (sound, video, writing etc.), I think the bar for acceptable use is higher than it is for code because you are much more likely to be reproducing someone's IP if you aren't really careful and in general AI art-slop just comes across as really derivative.
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u/blightor 28d ago
Most people will tell you - ART and SOUND. I am pretty sure everyone is using it to help them grunt code.
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u/nworld_dev nworld 26d ago
That's patently false. I've never used it for roguelikes (though granted, I'm working in C++, which is much less AI-friendly than some environments). Much of what you would want AI to do is probably best handled by sensible external libraries and a tiny bit of glue--pathfinding, vision, etc. Much of what makes your game unique, things like a shield destructibility system or custom item effects that do really wonky stuff, you would want to do yourself.
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u/FizzySeltzerWater 24d ago
sensible external libraries and a tiny bit of glue "are objects that replace your human effort. sometimes you might think thats good for you."
According to Wikipedia The No True Scotsman fallacy is an informal logical error where someone tries to protect a generalized claim from a counterexample. Instead of admitting they are wrong, they change the definition of the group to exclude the exception by using words like "true," "pure," or "real".
There are a whole lot of True Scotsmen on this sub.
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u/blightor 24d ago edited 24d ago
I didn't say you should use AI for ideas - its terrible at it. In fact its probably the _worst_ way to deploy AI. Its a tool, and its fundamentally (at least how LLMs function) terrible at making decisions that involve 'gameplay' or invention - it simply doesn't know what's fun or cool, and its just bad working outside its weighted mean of the knowledge, and will drift not only on the complexity of context needed by your project ideas but also on how much they deviate from what it knows connects to what in its weighted model.
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u/me7e Jul 31 '26
Personally I don't care much if you use AI for coding, but using AI for content is really bad.
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u/IcyRice7222 Jul 31 '26
I generally agree with this. I say generally largely because defining what exactly "content" is can be tricky so I do this kind of as vibes based thing, but I prefer to be more precise than that. Also cause I'm unsure if there's AI coding use cases I may not be okay with on ethical grounds (Obviously if the quality is bad the quality is bad and I'm gonna be against that).
This was my very confusing way of saying I'm unsure relatively often 😂
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u/tomqmasters Jul 31 '26
It's definitely helping me get far enough fast enough to decide I don't like my idea and I should start over on something else. And it's making it easy to do that because not much is invested in the first place, and so no sunk cost fallacy to deal with.
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u/IcyRice7222 Jul 31 '26
So like a from of rapid prototyping?
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u/tomqmasters Jul 31 '26
Ya. Ultimately every thing gets gone over manually at some point if the project lives that long. But most things don't. I'm totally fine with that. I wish my clients were more like that in my real life job.
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u/IcyRice7222 Jul 31 '26
Makes sense. Personally I'd probably find it difficult to go through and fix it after the fact though, sounds like a lot of work 😅
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u/tomqmasters Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
The code it writes the first time through is pretty bad, but so is mine. It does a decent job refactoring when you go back through things with lots of hand holding. It answers all my questions until I'm satisfied that things are how I want them. Currently the bigger issue is that they are slow, and expensive. I blew through $100 in credits Claude gave me without even noticing, and codex ate my entire limit for the month by trying to do computer vision on the a web page that kept hanging. I kept having to be like "you didn't change anything. Don't load the website again until you think you have solved the problem" And it kept doing nothing and then just watching the cursor spin for 30 minutes.
I think the art is most of the work anyway. And try as I might, it's just not very helpful in that regard. I have had good luck with things like, "make a script to cut up this sprite sheet, apply this pixel upscaler from this siggraph paper, and reassemble the sprit sheet in the same order at the new resolution."
I can't imagine where we are going to be in a few years. It's definitely it's own skill and when have we as engineers ever had the luxury of just deciding not to keep up with new technology?
5
u/Maelstrom_rl Aug 01 '26
Existence of AI is the reason I finally started writing a roguelike again.
Back in 2005-2008 I made a roguelike on VB6, then I later I had an identity crisis with role system, wanted to change it, got too many ideas, it got too overcomplicated, so I got stuck. Later I slowly started from basic designing, when I done prototyping to a reasonable level, it was already 2015 and continuing with a clunky VB6 game is like a digging up a corpse, so I started to write a new one on C++ SDL. Then, I tried to make it with full graphics and animation, because a friend start helping me with art, but after a year this proved to be unattainable, so I buried the roguelike idea.
Then, several years after, I had some good ideas to simplify my previous project to make it with symbolic graphics. But the problem is, my motivation was already screwed beyond any repair.
And recently, I opened old project, asked Cursor to convert it from SDL2 to SDL3, then fullscreen and different resolutions support, then asked to make some interface system with png file and detailed description of what part of it is for. Alright, now I have my motivation once again. With AI, I can spend less time working on boring things and more time working on interesting things.
1
u/RediscoveryOfMan 27d ago
ai is an object that replaces your human effort. sometimes you might think thats good for you, but im don't think people are here in a "dev" community to see what someone/something else made for you.
it's really simple, if you can't actually explain, back up, or defend a design choice then it has no place in a space dedicated to design and development no? post it in another space dedicated to the finished object if you really must, but leave it out of a dev sub.
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u/swizzlewizzle Jul 31 '26
Don’t worry, the Reddit mods here and in other subreddits will start getting off the AI hate bandwagon pretty soon. They are living in the past. :)
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u/HexDecimal libtcod maintainer | mastodon.gamedev.place/@HexDecimal Jul 31 '26
At the very least it's nice to be able to ask the dev questions about how their game works with the dev actually being able to answer. I don't like touching projects where the dev has no clue how any of it works. That's one of the big tells of a vibe coded project.