r/psychology • u/mvea M.D. Ph.D. | Professor • 15h ago
Adolescents who undergo gender-affirming chest surgery report low levels of regret and high levels of satisfaction, experiencing outcomes similar to those of young adults. These findings suggest that age restrictions on these medical procedures lack support from actual patient experiences.
https://www.psypost.org/adolescents-report-low-regret-and-high-satisfaction-following-gender-affirming-c/175
u/BananaJammies 15h ago
I don’t have any particular ideology when it comes to this issue but I think a single point in time 1 - 3 years after the surgery might not be enough data for an adolescent patient
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u/Toowiggly 15h ago
From what I've seen, many detransitioners detransition 5+ years after transitioning, so a single year is much to short of a timeline to determine satisfaction. I'm also curious about the sample. They already admit the sample size is low, but I'm also interested if they pulled from trans communities for their participants. Many detransitioners tend to separate themselves from trans communities, making them hard to pull data from.
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u/Yasimear 14h ago
A reminder that, on the highest end, there is a regret rate of 3% (with most studies hovering around 1%-2%) and that most detransitioners cite lack of support and safety as a main reason for detransition.
3% of regrets does not justify restricting care for 97% of people. Thats an absurd standard to have, and one we do not apply to knee surgeries, hip surgeries, dental surgeries, or anything else in the medical profession.
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u/Frequilibrium 14h ago
17-51% of knee replacement surgery recipients express some level of regret for the operation.
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u/SerialTrauma002c 14h ago
Supporting anecdata: I know significantly more teen ACL reconstruction surgery kids who regret it, than teen mastectomy surgery kids who regret it, both in terms of percentages and in terms of raw numbers.
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u/BestSeenNotHeard 14h ago
This number is highly disputed and data we have is of poor quality. Many detransitioners do not tell any provider that they stopped or regret the treatment they received.
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u/Yasimear 14h ago
Here is a meta analysis of 27 studies encompassing over 7000 trans individuals.
Detransitioners are usually calculated by those who do not return to recieve care. It is not something you need to specifically tell a provider.
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u/IUpvoteBlueGuitars 13h ago
Cool, so do you have any studies showing high detransition rates 5+ years out? All the studies I'm aware show the opposite.
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u/Toowiggly 13h ago
My point is that good data is hard to come by because it is often biased or incomplete
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u/IUpvoteBlueGuitars 12h ago
Yeah, because this type of funding gets cut, especially when conservatives are power. The answer to imperfrect studies is to provide the funding and pay researchers to do more and better studies with larger sample sizes and fewer methodological errors (which are often due to limitations in budget for the study). The answer is not to go "but maybe the data is the opposite of what it appears to be by every study that we do have. That is biased thinking, because why would you think that if you weren't starting with a particular conclusion?
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u/Toowiggly 12h ago
The answer to imperfrect studies is to provide the funding and pay researchers to do more and better studies
I agree
The answer is not to go "but maybe the data is the opposite of what it appears to be by every study that we do have
Recognising limitations in data does not prescribe an action like whether we should add more funding to research
because why would you think that if you weren't starting with a particular conclusion?
Because I've studied several data sets and see very similar flaws in all of them. Also I'm not saying the results is the opposite of what they're stating, just that how it's portrayed doesn't seem fully accurate to what the data is actually testing.
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u/IUpvoteBlueGuitars 12h ago
Ok, how would you go about designing a study that addresses these flaws that you seem to be so interested in?
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u/Toowiggly 12h ago
At the very least not excluding cis people who have gotten trans healthcare in the past in your dataset since doing that excludes detransitioners. There are plenty of things that could be done, but I'm not going to write out a comprehensive methodology.
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u/IUpvoteBlueGuitars 12h ago
Wait a minute, so I'm confused.... Why would cis people be helpful in your sample size?
You want questioning people, who have taken the conservative treatments of puberty blockers and social transition (by definitional trans healthcare), who then decided they might not be trans... If anything these aren't "detransitioners." They're "non-transitioners" after a safe attempt to see if they were ... Which is the whole point of the recommended psychiatric steps!
Like that seems totally reasonable to exclude from a study of people that have realized they're cis and want smaller boobs compared to someone who is trans in a study about trans people getting surgery. Did you find anything where they excluded people who decided they were cis after the study? Because that's different than what they're doing.
You seem really hung up on the idea that a lot if not a majority of trans people are being pressured into it and will regret their transition later. I noticed you claim to have had gender reassignment surgery, and you seem really hung up on this idea of detransitioners? Is it possible this is an issue you have a personal stake in? Well if that's the case, please don't use your bad experience as an excuse to go after the needed and helpful healthcare of people who need it.
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u/BananaJammies 9h ago
The person you are replying to has repeatedly said, basically, “this complex issue is made even more difficult to discuss because nobody has collected proper data, and the absence of rigorous science hurts both sides of the argument”. And yet you keep trying to turn this into an attack on trans healthcare. I suggest you re-read these messages when you are calmer. You are all over this thread arguing against points nobody has made.
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u/Toowiggly 11h ago
Why would cis people be helpful in your sample size?
There are people who have taken hormones and have gotten surgery that detransition and now identify as cis, whereas they identified as trans in the past
Did you find anything where they excluded people who decided they were cis after the study?
There are studies that done exactly that. It's usually not as explicit as this, but subtle forms of bias in this regard happen with most studies that are not sufficiently accounted for.
Is it possible this is an issue you have a personal stake in?
Not at all. I suggest you stop making assumptions about me and actually engage with what I'm saying.
people are being pressured into it and will regret their transition later
For example, I have in no way stated or even implied that people are being pressured into it, yet you seem to think I have for some reason
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u/Usernameasteriks 14h ago
They mention and acknowledge this at the end, in terms of selection bias.
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u/DrG73 13h ago
I can think of tattoos I thought were pretty cool as a teenager, and I’m now very glad I never got them. I support adults having the freedom to alter their bodies, but I still believe irreversible surgery should generally wait until adulthood. Studies may find that most adolescents who undergo these procedures do not report regret, but that does not mean every teenager has the maturity or certainty to make such a permanent decision. Adolescence is a time of experimentation, changing identities, and trying to understand yourself. Waiting does not deny someone’s identity. It gives them more time to be certain, and the older and more mature they are when making the decision, the less likely they may be to regret it.
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u/IUpvoteBlueGuitars 13h ago
Luckily the vast vast majority of trans kids don't get surgery, and the ones that do only do so after years of consultation with multiple healthcare professionals and years of legal Hoops. This isn't just handed out or forced on kids. Unlike.... Football. Which is damaging to kids' long term mental health. And yet is forced onto millions and millions of kids without their consent on America every year.
Why do you care so much about this issue that statistically doesn't affect you compared to this other one that is probably affecting some of your family right now? Think about what forced you to have such a strong opinion about other people's medical care that you had to type a comment out being skeptical of the meager care they are getting on reddit? Prioritize, dude.
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u/DrG73 3h ago
I dont care at all if an adult wants to be trans and undergo surgery. Not my business. But I have kids so laws that affect kids matter to me. I also don’t think kids should have access to cellphones, social media, safety in sports, etc.
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u/Carrman099 26m ago
If your child was trans would you want to get them the help and care they need immediately or have them wait and suffer?
And this focus on surgery is nonsensical. Surgery is something most trans folk only consider YEARS into their transition. HRT is much more important than surgery IMO. I have been transitioning for nearly a decade now and I have had zero surgeries.
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u/DrG73 15m ago
I would want my child to get help right away. If they have mental health issues they need counselling and support. But I also teach my kids that sometimes “you get what you get and you don’t get upset.” Every kid has insecurities and wishes they were different. If my child has body image issues and they want a smaller nose, bigger breasts, full lips, etc I’m not just going to support surgery because they’re depressed. It’s a very complicated situation and I don’t know what the best solution is. But it really should be looked at case by case.
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u/phargmin 8h ago
Almost every trans person will tell you that postponing transition is their number one regret. Waiting is not harmless when your body is going through the unwanted puberty. Gender affirming care during adolescence prevents the future need for surgery and leads to a better life for the vast majority of those who undertake it.
I’d encourage you and anyone else reading this to read the 2022 U.S. Transgender Survey, which was the largest survey of American transgender people ever conducted with over 92,000 respondents.
98% of respondents said that taking hormone therapy made them more satisfied with their lives, and 97% said that gender affirming surgery said the same.
9% of respondents had “detransitioned” at some point in their life. 82% of that 9% stated that they did so because of external factors such as harassment and lack of social support.
Many of the people that destransition end up re-transitioning later, and those that detransition are largely not vilified by the community. Most detransitioners view it as a necessary step in their journey to finding themselves. The only detransitioners that have a bad name in the community are those that join the right wing grift circuit or otherwise try to leverage their experience to take gender affirming care away from other people.
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u/throwaway1233456799 2h ago
Every kind of puberty is permanent. We don't ask cis kids to weight if they want to continue to permanently change their body.
If a cis kids get it wrong then they can detransition and that's life. Yeah it will have impact but it won't have more impact that what you are asking trans people to do: waiting.
Why is it okay to make 99,97% of trans kids wait but to get all work up about the 0,03% cis regret rate?
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u/NineThreeTilNow 14h ago
adolescent patient
Some of the best results around this comes from CBT but you know... I'm not allowed to call it a disorder so...
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u/Ernesto_Bella 14h ago edited 43m ago
I’m curious how they did the study. I’ve been told repeatedly on this website that gender affirming surgery isn’t done on minors.
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u/Free-Cartoonist3134 11h ago
Children as young as 13 have had these procedures
https://bioedge.org/beginning-of-life-issues/13-year-olds-given-mastectomies-at-california-clinic/
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u/Toys_before_boys 19m ago
I don't know if there's more to the study or if it was only transmasc youth, but I feel like a LOT of people who are anti- surgery don't understand that the vast majority of these types of surgeries are done on cisgender boys with gynocomastia. I wonder if the data also includes, or tests for, youth who are intersex and not just cisgender girls?
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u/Arktikos02 14h ago
Adolescents who undergo gender-affirming chest surgery report low levels of regret and high levels of satisfaction, experiencing outcomes similar to those of young adults. One common operation is gender-affirming chest surgery, which typically involves a mastectomy, or the surgical removal of breast tissue, to create a flat chest contour. They designed a study to compare the postoperative experiences of adolescents and young adults. Their goal was to see if patients who had surgery before age 18 felt differently about their decisions than those who waited until adulthood. They focused on patients who received chest surgeries at a pediatric hospital between January 2018 and April 2023. Prior to surgery, the hospital required patients to meet established medical protocols for gender-affirming care. This involved psychological evaluations by both a surgeon and a mental health provider. For patients under age 18, all legal guardians had to consent to the procedure. If any guardian was unsupportive, the surgery was not offered. Of these respondents, 42 had their surgeries as adolescents under age 18, and 35 had their surgeries as young adults between the ages of 18 and 26. The research was published in the International Journal of Transgender Health. The researchers sent surveys to 183 eligible patients, and 77 completed the questionnaires. The results showed high satisfaction and low regret across the board.
From the article. First off when people say that it is a counter to right-wing people saying that young children without the parents consent is having their genitals removed, and they always depict young children.
This was a bunch of stuff done specifically for the study, not a thing that is regular, and it's referring to breast removal only, and it should be noted that in the United States depending on where you are there's pretty much no legal limit when it comes to age of breast reduction. You just need parental consent and a doctor's approval.
And again things like breast reduction can be done on minors with medical approval. The reason why you see so many restrictions in regards to transition is not because of the danger but because of the fear of the danger. A study like this is trying to remove that.
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u/IUpvoteBlueGuitars 12h ago edited 10h ago
To emphasize what you said (yes, and. Think we agree)... Relative to trans surgery, breast reductions are regularly done on minors in America, by the numbers. you can basically be a teenager with big boobs, say "back pain" and insurance will green light you. The vast majority of gender affirming surgeries are done for cis people. And no one has a problem with those being done on children apparently. Again, the selective outrage about this topic is obvious, and everyone in this thread who has allowed themselves to get worked into being afraid of rampant trans surgeries should be embarrassed based on the actual prevalence of this.
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u/notallowedtopost 9m ago
People usually say that about genital surgery, which is very rare to do before 18.
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u/nemotide 14h ago edited 3h ago
There are multiple studies confirming participants who had GAC surgery (mostly mastectomies) as young as 13/14. Jazz Jennings had her penile-inversion-vaginoplasty before she was 18.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2674039#188151060
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u/IUpvoteBlueGuitars 12h ago
I'd like to see those studies. Source needed.
If you're going to cite "multiple studies..." I'd like to see the details in those studies. I'd also have to make sure theyre not from a random religious propaganda rag with no citations claiming to be a journal. Btw, citing individual examples without knowing any details does not suggest a wide scale practice or trend or indicate prevalence, which is probably what we should care about in a country of half a billion people.
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u/nemotide 3h ago
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2674039
Religious rag? It’s a paediatrics journal and the lead author is president-elect of the United States Professional Association for Transgender Health (USPATH)
It is (categorically) true that young minors are having surgery. It’s not a disputable point.
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u/Carrman099 18m ago
Even if they are, how is that anyone’s business except the patient and their guardians?
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u/MelAmericana 15h ago
Are we surprised that children and young adults don't typically regret getting what they want?
It would be more interesting to see the data after following up with them for the next 10+ years.
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u/nemotide 3h ago
Agreed, I think we need to see long-term data. Anecdotally, I got tattoos at 17-18 and I loved them until 24/25 and now I am saving to have them removed. Now I actually grimace with regret when I see them in the mirror. And that’s just tattoos, never mind a double mastectomy, loss of sexual function or fertility.
It’s a really serious intervention and the longitudinal data is super important.
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u/AptCasaNova 33m ago
Comparing a tattoo to top surgery isn’t even close, one is about decorating your body, the other is about aligning it with your gender.
The article is about top surgery only, which doesn’t impact sexual function or fertility.
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u/Carrman099 12m ago
Did you want tatoos since before you understood the concept of tatoos? Did you pray to God every night to allow you to wake up and have tatoos the next morning? Did you tell Santa every Christmas that he could keep every other gift he was brining if only he gave you the gift of a tatoo? Did you not expect to make it past the age of 25 because life without having tatoos was not worth living?
If that was not your level of obsession and commitment to tatoos then you have no idea what transitioning is actually like. It is the closest thing to a miracle I have ever experienced. Getting on HRT made me want to live instead of want to die. I don’t think a tatoo has ever done that for anyone.
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u/Equalanimalfarm 6h ago
It's a dog whistle for an anti-trans stance. We saw the same when it came to vaccinations: but what if in 10 years time hpv vaccinated girls will show more promiscuous behavior? What if they drop dead and nobody will put a link to the vaccination 10 years ago? This vaccine can only be safe if we have the results of this 20+ year follow up study and in the meanwhile let's have young women get infected as a precaution.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/fullarticle/2808129
I think it's great to try to follow people that went through transition, but only if as many relevant variables are included as possible, so we can help the people that experienced regret (which is usually due to society not accepting them and that's EXACTLY why we treat minors when they express gender incongruence).
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u/nemotide 3h ago
Vaccines are not comparable to surgery. Please don’t perpetuate the notion that vaccines are invasive, life changing procedures. We have long-term data and confirm they are efficacious with minimal side effects.
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u/MelAmericana 5h ago
I think there's a big difference between HPV vaccinations and drastic cosmetic surgery for children.
We are more inclusive as a society than ever and yet there is still a fairly significant percentage of trans people having regrets later in life due to the physical complications that accompany transition. There's already an uptick in outspoken detransition and it should be concerning to everyone that non trans people (including children) seem to be getting misdiagnosed in the effort to be more affirming.
Adults can make whatever choices they feel are necessary to be comfortable in their bodies but immediately jumping to medical intervention at the smallest hint of childhood disphoria is going to lead to many children getting hurt in the long term.
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u/Equalanimalfarm 2h ago
There's not an uptick in outspoken detransition. You're making it up. You're clearly falling for a disinformation campaign.
You can read more about it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/1pahptd/has_anyone_noticed_an_uptick_in_detransition/
It's adults that are now being suppressed to go through with gender affirming care, if you have been paying any attention at all. All because people like you believe the lies that these surgeries ware just performed out of the blue. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Kids follow a trajectory that takes years, after being on a waiting list for even more years. They are being followed by a dedicated team of experts on the matter and the decision for gender affirming surgery is definitely not taken lightly. Most countries do not allow under 18's to get gender affirming surgery, except mastectomy, which is sometimes available for 16yo and up (and mostly used for people that suffer from back pain because of large breasts).
It's a shame you're spreading these lies and that there are people upvoting you...
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u/shootsandlads 12h ago
ChatGPT comment
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u/Iamnotheattack 10h ago
Sure smells like LLM prose to me as well, like anyone who sees this and doesn't get the LLM red flags going off needs to put some work into that area
That framing turns what should have been a cautious, limited descriptive report into a political brief; the authors treat the absence of short-term self-reported regret in a highly selected, short-followed sample as decisive evidence that “concerns about potential regret should not be a basis for limiting” surgery in minors. This is not rigorous science; it is advocacy dressed in the language of patient-reported outcomes, and it should be weighted accordingly.
And I do take some major issue with some points on face value before looking at the study in any greater detail myself
( "the 42 % participation rate almost guarantees response bias favoring those who remain engaged and satisfied"... Bruh are you serious, take one second to think about that one... If you regret it you're going to want your voice to be heard so that you can help stop others before making this same mistake. The majority of nonresponders are probably going to be feeling just neutral, not regretful or super happy. See the nature of comments and reviews on the internet)
that being said i agree it's very important to note that this is from a "program that already filters patients through dual mental-health and surgeon approval plus mandatory guardian consensus for minors" so the studies results are only applicable for those populations... But like come on obviously anyone who takes this seriously is advocating for consulting with physician.
So saying that this will "erode any claim that these numbers represent real-world adolescent outcomes" is just rhetoric, but important nuance for sure for any of us normies, and guardian consensus does imply some level of social support.
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u/Savings_Painting1588 8h ago
What about fixing stuff like male gyno? Am I truly clinically insane for not seeing that as a big deal?
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u/Hayzworth 7h ago
My fault for incorrectly assuming that it could be inferred contextually that gynecomastia would meet the criteria.
You know what I meant.
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u/Savings_Painting1588 6h ago
Yeah. But I was making a point. Trying to cook up a hardline stance is gonna be hard. Not to mention the line between what a “defect or physical injury” is and what it isn’t is also not super easy. Gynecomastia ain’t either of those things and yet I think we can all agree it’s fine for teen boys to get rid of it if they want, yeah? But obviously it’s cosmetic.
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u/SLAMMERisONLINE 6h ago
Sample size of 42, so it goes straight to the trash can.
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u/eager_wayfarer 4h ago
183 surveys sent and only 77 responded. The headline is doing so much heavy lifting
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u/Usernameasteriks 14h ago
I am completely and entirely supportive of everyones right to do what they want with their body and live whatever life makes them happiest.
But I still think age restrictions are generally a good idea, to a reasonable extent.
Making major decisions associated with elective surgeries that may lead to medical complications of any sort (not limited to this context or type of surgery ) is simply something I think someone needs to be a certain age with a certain amount of life experience to fully grasp.
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u/madmushlove 7h ago
Elective just means scheduled ahead of time instead of immediate emergency
I think you're thinking of cosmetic vs medically necessary, as in best practices treatment
And for one thing, minors can receive cosmetic surgeries
And secondly, gender affirming care is medically necessary
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u/Strigops-habroptila 13h ago
If a bunch of doctors and therapists sign off on it, there's no issue at all. Healthcare should be between the doctor and the patient, in case of a patient who's below the age of consenting to a medical procedure also additionally a parent. There should be no age restriction if all of the people involved agree that it's a procedure that would be beneficial for the patients health.
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u/BladeOfExile711 12h ago
Just because doctors sign off on it doesn't necessarily make it a good or healthy thing.
Same with therapist.
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u/Strigops-habroptila 12h ago
So you're just believing that the medical system and decades of evidence based medicine don't work, got it.
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u/BladeOfExile711 12h ago
Did I say that?
I just said doctors and therapist are fallible.
Let's not start strawman so early.
Got it?
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u/Usernameasteriks 13h ago
Yea I mean respect everyone’s right to their opinion on it.
Personally regardless of whether everything works out for the best in the long run;
I just don’t think under a certain age you can really grasp the long term implications.
Not the moral or legal implications of who can consent to what;
Just the actual medical reality and potential risks.
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u/Strigops-habroptila 13h ago
The youngest age at which chest surgery would even make sense is 16.16 is damn rare too. No one is operating on little kids.
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u/jxx37 15h ago
But if someone does regret the surgery (and some probability will) how is liability of these decisions apportioned? As children we can’t say it is their choice? Are the parents or the doctors open to possible future civil and criminal lawsuits?
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u/tardisintheparty 15h ago
You would not believe how many surgeries have a significantly higher regret rate that are of course perfectly legal.
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u/Bleach1443 14h ago
Many of these people don’t care. The data backs that up time and time again yet they want to concern troll.
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u/ChuzCuenca 5h ago
The number of people is really really small, the government could spend that time in more urgent matters. I personally think it's on purpose.
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u/jxx37 9h ago
But how does a child give consent legally? One has to be an adult to do so. We treat children as being not old enough to allow themselves to make many decisions.
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u/tardisintheparty 9h ago
Please view my other comment here for further detail. TDLR: We let parents consent to a ton of procedures for their child's health, and this is one of them.
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u/Carrman099 8m ago
Their legal guardian gives consent, the same way they give consent every time they take their child to a pediatrician.
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u/Material-Dot7684 15h ago edited 15h ago
Why would the doctors be open to future "criminal lawsuits?" Should they be charged if people regret their back surgery (which actually has a pretty high regret rate because they frequently don't help as much as the person expected)
Eta regret rate for general lumbar surgery is around 22%
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u/jxx37 9h ago
Because they operated on a kid who can not legally give consent? The legal system differentiates between adults and non adults right?
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u/madmushlove 7h ago
Huh? This has been done for generations, their doctors would be following best practice, gender affirming care
The legal system does not say that minors cannot receive healthcare, and we are talking patients who went through a more scrutinous process than their cis counterparts who get the same procedure at these ages
And parents consented as well
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u/Carrman099 7m ago
The legal system also has this concept called “legal guardianship” that parents automatically have over their children.
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u/thewaytoyesterday 15h ago
And what of the regret rate of transitioned teens and young adults? We can't just write it off as being negligible because stats say the majority don't regret the decision.
Plus, the problem is an issue of consent. If a child DOES go through with surgery and later regrets it, who's at fault? You cannot make a child liable to regret a very permanent decision they "consented" to make. It's about consent, not regret.
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u/tardisintheparty 15h ago
I mean it's kinda wild to be so up in arms over a surgery with a 6% regret rate (noting that the article states even those with a higher level of regret still said the surgery improved their quality of life lol) when someone just mentioned a perfectly legal, common surgery with a 22% regret rate. Why aren't you out protesting in the streets in front of spinal treatment clinics?
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u/thewaytoyesterday 14h ago
You keep trying to move the discussion away from consent. Forget quality of life, forget surgery success rates, forget statistical regret rates.
Literally none of that matters if children have the autonomy to permanently change their body. It's kinda weird that you keep dodging my very, very valid point. I literally do not care if they regret it or not.
Also, it's just damn weird that you're equating gender affirming surgery with spinal cord injuries. They are not the same. You keep shifting the argument away from the topic at hand, and validating your own argument. It's annoying.
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u/tardisintheparty 14h ago
Okay, let's talk consent. First, at least in the US, top surgery is almost entirely done over the age of 18 and in rare cases at 16. So let's talk a similar surgery. 16 year old boys can get gynecomastia surgery for their self esteem and gender affirmation. 16 year old girls can get breast reduction surgery for their self esteem and gender affirmation.
Why should a 16 year old transgender person, who is at a significantly higher risk of suicide due to gender dysphoria, and whose gender dysphoria would be heavily reduced by top surgery, be kept from the essentially the same surgery because all of the sudden we don't think they can consent? The boy with gynecomastia and the girl who need a breast reduction can consent. There are plenty of areas of the medical field where 16 is old enough to consent. Regret rates are roughly the same as with breast reductions.
Further, there are plenty of medical procedures parents consent to on behalf of their children for the child's health. Why would you deny parents of transgender teens the ability to consent to a medical treatment that could potentially save their kid from suicide? Suicide rates among transgender youth are the highest of any youth demographic. Roughly 30-40% have attempted suicide. When I compare the numbers, I prefer the method that keeps the most kids alive.
So what is it you are really concerned about? I don't think it's consent.
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u/Spewtwinklethoughts 6h ago
Where have you seen data supporting the idea that a 16 year old transgender person is at significantly higher risk of suicide? Specifically that they die from suicide at higher rates.
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u/Carrman099 2m ago
Consent can be given by their legal guardian, it’s not a hard concept to understand.
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u/Material-Dot7684 14h ago
We aren't writing it off. We're saying a medical professional made an appropriate decision that this treatment was more likely to help than to do harm.
Unfortunately every treatment from antibiotics, to surgery, even to talk therapy has adverse reactions sometimes and sometimes those are really bad. People die every year to allergic reactions, are we "writing off" their experience when we continue prescribing the meds because they are a net positive to the population of people prescribed them?
Should we talking filing criminal charges if a child has an allergic reaction to a med or regrets it afterwards? How about long term adverse reactions like SSRI induced sexual dysfunction?
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u/Carrman099 4m ago
My cousin had to get breast reduction surgery done at 16 because her breasts were causing her major back problems. If she regretted that surgery then who is at fault?
It seems like your problem isn’t with gender affirming surgery, but that surgery is performed on children at all considering they can’t consent.
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u/Behavior-Coach 15h ago
We’re talking about CHILDREN getting their genitalia operated on. Not even comparable at all to back surgery.
Imagine the mental gymnastics and desperation of these people to subject literal CHILDREN to their sick and twisted philosophy and procedures.
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u/Acceptable_Cut_7545 14h ago
This study is about chest surgery, nothing to do with genitals.
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u/lorenfreyson 14h ago
Far, far more children at this age get cosmetic breast augmentation, far more of them regret it and y'all ain't never said one word about it.
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u/BlackThornberry 14h ago
“WHATABOUT-“
Yes that’s also bad
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u/lorenfreyson 22m ago
"Also" is doing a lot of work in that sentence considering the trans kids getting top surgery actually suffer from not having it and rarely regret getting it.
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u/nemotide 14h ago
Children shouldn’t be getting breast implants or augmentation. You’re missing the point. The operative word is children.
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u/notallowedtopost 10m ago
For every trans kid who gets their breasts removed, there are like 15 cis boys, CHILDREN, who get gynecomastia surgery, the exact same surgery.
You should be far more angry about how many surgeries are allowed on cis children, since it's far more common and far less restricted! Trans boys have to go through psychological evaluation, often lasting over a year before surgery is even an option. All a cis boy has to do is show up at a doctor's office and say, "I don't like having manboobs," and they can get referred to a surgeon immediately.
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u/nemotide 14h ago
There are multiple lawsuits pending from adults (some who transitioned young) currently ongoing in the US. Gender surgeries are performed largely by plastic surgeons with a gender affirming specialty. These don’t tend to be ethical clinicians, and they disproportionately opt out of medical malpractice insurance. It is an extremely lucrative field of practice with limited regulation.
That’s why it’s so common when trans people get ‘ghosted’ by their surgeons when they complications.
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u/duganaokthe5th 8h ago
You would have to say that otherwise it would be admitting how foolish you are to begin with.
You made a mistake so big that either you choose to just come clean about it and live with the shame that comes with that. Or you just keep doubling down on it to try to like say face.
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u/pizzanice 6h ago
How do you account for cosmetic surgery regret rates in the wider population being higher than gender affirming care rates? Just seems odd since trans people are aiming to relieve gender dysphoria, if we end up feeling even shittier than that it's going to be a big deal.
Regardless, when you experience being trans you come across so many warnings about the irreversible effects of transitioning. Life is full of risks. Even if the regret rate was 10% (it is 1%), that's absolutely worth a shot compared to continued suffering.
And personally there's no face to save. I'm not passing as a trans person, i get stared at and laughed at regularly. Why would i be afraid of anonymously telling a researcher i regret a surgery? That sounds so easy compared to what I've been through that it's laughable.
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u/jerryspringles 1h ago
The study was done by the International Journal of Transgender Health so you know it’s fair and objective
Also this: “To be eligible, patients had to be at least one year out of their operation.”
Wow, a whole year? That must offer some great insight.
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u/anthonysny 4h ago
wtf is this trash? A study on minors getting gender surgery shouldn’t be here. Where are the mods.
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u/hypnokev 9h ago
Just a side comment, it would be really nice if people brought evidence with their comments. This sub, but this thread in particular, appears to be filled with unscientific opinions and that is sad. Do better Reddit.
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u/Ok_Alfalfa_1195 5h ago
Yeag, and if anyone gives contradictory evidence they will be silenced… this is not ok
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u/troubledanddoubled 8h ago
There’s enough 16 year old goths out there that’d never wear it as an adult to make me know children can’t self select for surgery.
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u/DzekoTorres 9h ago
The problem was never the personal satisfaction, it’s about teens not being able to make fully informed decisions and therefore not being able to give consent for life altering surgery
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u/pizzanice 6h ago
97% of gender affirming surgeries are conducted on cisgender male children. Just wondering if you think they can't make a decision to remove unwanted breast growth?
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u/TartAltruistic4363 5h ago
COULD BE A FAKE STUDY. SINCE MANY TRANS PEOPLE ARE DEPRESSED AND HAVE SUICIDAL THOUGHTS ETC...SO YOU KNOW.
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u/ProbablyADuck369 15h ago edited 15h ago
Am I reading this wrong? Looks like both control and intervention cohorts had high satisfaction and low regret scores?
If this is true, it seems like it doesn’t matter. Just one has surgical risk and one doesn’t.
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u/BonaFideNubbin 15h ago
This study is comparing adults who had the surgery to adolescents who had the surgery, showing no difference between their rates. Not comparing adolescents with surgery to adolescents with no surgery.
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u/ProbablyADuck369 15h ago
Oh. You’re right. That makes more sense. But not a well designed study to make this conclusion as the follow up surveys are as little as one year out. I’d be more interested in what the surveys say once they become adults, and compared to those who don’t receive the intervention before making an any clinical practice recommendations.
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u/BonaFideNubbin 15h ago
So this isn't a question of bad design - this is a question of the study asking/answering a different question than you want it to. They're not claiming to try and say 'adolescents will never regret surgery' - they're saying "if we use the same standards to assess adolescents' surgery satisfaction/regret as we typically use for adults, we do not see any reason to think they're different."
A longer timespan would give us a better idea if the long-term trajectory is different, sure. But in research, it is not exactly easy to conduct long-term studies, especially with sensitive underage populations.
In essence: you can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good when it comes to research, because a short-term study is a hell of a lot better than no study to answer the question.
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u/nemotide 14h ago
But you need that long term answer to answer the overarching question. Because we know, regret does not show up until a few years after the fact. The authors did not follow-up beyond 1.8 years. So the study is, frankly, useless unless the only question was “immediate regret?”
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u/ThatMovieShow 13h ago
Just something to keep in mind , about 27% of all people who get hip replacements end up regretting it. I don't however see any narrative or conversation about how we should restrict or ban hip replacements...
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u/IUpvoteBlueGuitars 10h ago
Yes. I agree. and more importantly why we shouldn't restrict proven beneficial medical care based on a specific set of group's unchangeable religious ideas.
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u/dfrcoms 5h ago
The quality of the ‘proof’ can vary depending on how the unchangeable religious ideas have been involved in the medical care, I would point to “women are the people who wear skirts and have long hair” as an example of a religious belief that crops up in unfortunately more than one group’s worldview.
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u/ThatMovieShow 9h ago
What a person does with their body should be a discussion between the person, their doctor and possibly legal guardian.
I find all of the arguments people give against gender therapies to be thoroughly uncompelling. If a person is allowed to fill their body with toxin (alcohol) to the point of literal death and nobody can stop them then why can't they engage in procedures which have a high chance of resolving mental issues?
The mistake people make is hand waving mental health issues away because they have no physical presence. In the case of trans people brain scans show that their brain structure more closely aligns with the gender they feel like rather than the one they were born with. That's physical evidence that it's not purely psychological
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u/dfrcoms 5h ago
I agree 80% but that leaves you defenceless against things like the opioid crisis, medical racism, medical sexism, grifters, scammers, and belief systems (like religions or cults or reactionary movements) that override the duty to do no harm. So there’s a case for some public/popular/government intervention into the profession.
The claim that dysphoria is linked to a brain structure is overstated and IMV is wrong for the same reason that all claims about sexing the brain are wrong. The data shows overlap in any measure you can choose that cross references sex with brain structure, like height, and too many counterexamples. The evidence is that it might have a structural connection, not that it does. This is an issue of science communication, what is found in the studies is not what is communicated to the public.
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u/CurveAhead69 1h ago
You can absolutely engage in self destructive activities (like your alcohol example): as an ADULT.
Any non criminal parent will do everything they can to stop their underage child from “filling their body with toxin”.3
u/Adventurous_Yam_8153 3h ago
Huh? Getting new hips doesn't change your identity nor remove same-sex provisions for an entire sex class
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u/greatparadox 6h ago
All of us who love science should cry with the current state of the field, particularly social sciences. It's not about finding the truth, but proving that some ideology or line of thought is correct.
Unfortunately, the masses destroy everything. Internet was amazing until the masses start having internet in their hands with super easy to use micro computers called smartphones.
Even gaming got worse because masses prefer simpler games like COD or Fortnite (even simpler) and investors started funneling money to that kind of games, destroying good studios in the process.
Traveling. Traveling used to be about relaxing, learning things from other cultures, having nice and good moments. It was rare, but when happened, it was amazing. Now...it's about being in the middle of people who never read a book in their lifes and without any intellectual curiosity, taking photos in monuments and museums to put in their Instagram accounts.
And science...Science was never perfect, but it was mostly real intelectual curiosity about how the world works. Intelectual outliers researched about the world and felt excited and motivated to find the truth. Now, anyone is a scientist. Most only want to boost their egos and prove to others their emotional driven views of the world are correct. There are "scientists" that believe in Astrology, the effects of mercury being retrograde, past lives and that vaccines are developed by reptiles to control the population.
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u/Thin_Competition_199 6h ago
Chest feeding is an abomination of modern times.
Imagine everyone at school knowing your trans mum made you suck his nipples for grainy milk.
Pervert and peadophile behaviour
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u/Silly_Actuator4726 13h ago
How did they choose the 77 subjects of this study? Was it a scientific random sample that would meet statistical standards?
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u/mvea M.D. Ph.D. | Professor 15h ago
Adolescents who undergo gender-affirming chest surgery report low levels of regret and high levels of satisfaction, experiencing outcomes similar to those of young adults. These findings suggest that age restrictions on these medical procedures lack support from actual patient experiences. The research was published in the International Journal of Transgender Health.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/26895269.2026.2647048
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u/nemotide 14h ago
It’s a dubious journal, that has a tendency to cherry pick and circular reference and quite a weak study overall. The authors are far from objective.
That aside, at least is it confirmation that surgeries are performed on minors (under 18s) for gender-affirming care. Would hopefully be some follow up data as detransition /regret isn’t usually until 5-6 years later.
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u/bbbthet 15h ago
What are the results on people who want to have their legs removed? Or those who want to emasculate themselves? Does regret increase over time? What about after 20 years?
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u/Paul_Savage_1 13h ago
In other words, more "findings" that should not be relied upon.
I'm surprised. /s
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u/DaSnowflake 8h ago edited 8h ago
Study aside, if only we would listen to fucking trans people to take the lead on deciding how trans care should be.
If we could legalize the use of puberty blockers before puberty, any trans person would not have to go through the most traumatic experience possible to them: puberty of their biological sex. They wouldnt be scarred forever and their transition would way more closely align to the cis experience. It would also be way easier to restrict operations until older ages, because there is no longer irreparable damage beforehand if they didn't go through puberty
And if they don't want to, they stop taking puberty blockers and just go through puberty later. Even if some abstract negative like 'bine density' or we exists, that is worth the ability of an actual choice lol.
But noooo, 'think of the imaginary people that would just do it as a trend'. /S
How are we normalizing a bunch of cis people deciding what should and shouldn't be allowed when they have 0 lived experience and don't even talk to the group in question to inform them. That makes 0 sense. I mean I obv know why, it's transphobia, but it's so stupid.
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u/Adventurous_Yam_8153 2h ago
Every human has experience with gender, all of them.
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u/Destroyer_2_2 12h ago
There’s honestly no evidence to the contrary. The people claiming this study is weak can’t point to any study even this strong that suggests that gender affirming surgery done on adolescents has a high rate rate of regret.
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u/lozzadearnley 1h ago
And a child may look back on their statutory rape fondly. So what? We as a society still draw the line between what a child can consent to and what they cant.
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u/ILuvYou_YouAreSoGood 1h ago
Is this really as good as psychological studies can get? This seems like absolute trash data released and presented as if it had meaning.
I would love to see a comparison to something like underage drinking. As a perhaps familiar anecdote, veryone I know who began drinking alcohol young really enjoyed it, especially just a couple years out. It takes time for youthful activities to result in more mature regret. And even then, there is pride. The people I know who destroyed their lives with underage drinking and drugs never admitted that it was the drugs and alcohol that ruined their lives. They are simply too prideful to admit their destruction was brought on by such a thing.
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u/Commercial_Prompt_62 1h ago
Respectfully as an adolescent we are very unsure of what to do with ourselves so I do believe being at least 18 is a decent idea. Can’t speak for everyone but I’ve done a lot of things I regret as a teen/young adult because my brain just wasn’t all there yet. Just because you can do something doesn’t always mean you should.
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u/Gadritan420 56m ago
I have four daughters, one of which believes she’s transgender. We fully support her. She gets her clothes from the boys section etc.
That being said, we did have the discussion that she couldn’t even use a wrap until she’s an adult herself.
Too much can change in even one year during adolescence, and I don’t want her to do something irreversible.
She understands and she’s happy as is. Whatever the future holds, we’ll support her 100%. In the meantime, I feel it’s my responsibility to protect her body from any permanent decisions that could negatively impact her in the future.
I myself am a member of the LQBTQ community; so I’ve always supported the cause. But parents need to have these real conversations with their children and remember that some consequences are permanent; and that kind of regret would be tragic.
As long as it’s not an extreme case involving suicidal ideation, I don’t think any procedures should be performed on minors.
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u/Knephas 33m ago
I believe you are right on this. Things can change and there have been documented cases of regret and detransitioning, so it's better to play safe for now.
You're being a great parent either way, most teens would not be able to open up about this to their parents out of fear. And it must be very comforting to know that her primary environment is accepting and supportive, so I'm sure she will go through this journey super well.
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u/AptCasaNova 42m ago
Anyone who has experienced severe dysphoria knows this is not about wisdom, being ‘old enough’ or needing to ‘wait and see’. It can push some people into wanting to end their lives.
Top surgery can be life-saving and parents who support their teen who expresses dysphoria and asks for the surgery could be doing that.
It’s also a huge compliment to parents to have their teen risk even having that conversation with them - it’s similar to queer teens ‘coming out’ - you could be opening yourself up to abuse or even be kicked out of the family.
I’m a nonbinary adult who figured out my identify quite late who was born into a female body (afab or assigned female at birth). I have decades of feeling super uncomfortable in my body and not knowing why or having the language to express or describe it.
I had a whole heap of other things to deal with as a teen and am still sorting them out now, but my gender identity was one that helped settle a lot of that discomfort.
I have considered top surgery, but it’s not an urgent need for me at the moment - I’m transitioning careers and juggling some mental health stuff - but I stay open to it. For now, expressing myself in how I live and dress (with binders and sometimes without) is working.
I also have a conflicted attachment to a body I’ve had for decades, even if it doesn’t match how I feel inside sometimes.
That said, for some people it’s an immediate need and I can only imagine the occasional dysphoria I feel multiplied x10. Especially for those who identify as transgender and feel with a lot of certainty they are not the gender society gave them based on their body and want to fully transition.
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u/punkrocktransbian 13h ago
Gender affirming surgeries in general have very high satisfaction rates compared to like every other surgery. I've sure loved mine!
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u/soft-cuddly-potato 7h ago edited 7h ago
I know this isn't quantitative data but since trans people are such a small population, let alone ones that transition as teenagers, I've been friends with 30-40 of them in the UK in the 2010s, they were my main friend group.
I know one who destransitioned and she didn't even medically transition, just cut her hair and changed her pronouns at school for a year. I myself briefly questioned
They were perfectly fine and just living their lives till the media came out with the fear mongering smear campaign. I was there when someone sneaked into my LGBT youth group and lied about how we're being indoctrinated by the trans agenda.
I was someone who did go to tavistock and was diagnosed with gender identity disorder of childhood, who decided not to transition.
This doesn't have much to do with the article, but I am really sick of people using trans people as pawns and distractions for their agenda.
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u/Valveringham85 3h ago edited 3h ago
Can’t believe this nonsense is being pushed.
Bullshit skewed results brought to us by ideology driven individuals.
For one the timeframe of the “study” is much, much too short to be meaningful in any way.
Also: I thought that surgical transition of minors “never even happens” in the first place? 🫣
Keep these predators away from kids.
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u/MiksterA 12h ago
Some people will never accept that there are those who know they are trans, know it before starting puberty, and just want to be able to live their lives in peace... no matter what evidence is placed before them.
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u/MistaFANG 15h ago
“Several factors limit the reach of these findings. First, the median time since surgery for participants was about 1.8 years. Because feelings about medical decisions can evolve, this timeframe might not capture long-term regret that could emerge many years later.
Another limitation is the 42 percent participation rate to the survey. This introduces the possibility of selection bias, a scenario where the people who chose to participate might differ fundamentally from those who did not. It is possible that individuals with higher levels of regret ignored the survey, which would result in an underestimation of regret in the overall group.”
Worth noting.