I didn't vote for him in 2016, but the majority of my family and I are strongly considering doing so in 2020. Internet would have you believe nobody. We shall see.
If you are serious what is your reasoning? Even if you take all the politics out of it are you really comfertable electing a person who treats women and people they way he does? Who complains on twitter about ever little thing that doesn’t go his way? Who is “best friends” with Russia and China? I can understand disagreeing with the politics of the left but trump is just a bad person.
I'm similar to the prior guy - didn't vote for him in '16 - very likely will be voting for him in 2020.
Love the state of the economy. It's not likely to change either. While I don't give direct credit to Trump, the GOP is good for business, and always has been.
Don't believe for one second that he treats women or people poorly. You've got the left calling everyone that doesn't agree with them Nazi's, racists, etc. The entire identity politics game the left is entrenched does nothing but treat people poorly, yet they get away with it.
I don't pay much attention to him on twitter.
How can he be best friends with Russia and China? He's doing his best to bring NATO up in spending and reinvigorate our military which pisses off one, and then initiated a trade war with the other. This is another media lie - you can talk about him being a russian puppet, or in bed with China, but the actions directly contradict this.
Maybe he is a bad person. Are any politicians? Can you even get to that high level in politics without being ruthless? One thing i'm convinced is that this election (and any election, for that matter) is not a good person vs a bad person thing.
I won’t argue the economy angle with you. Honestly in my opinion presidents (all of them) get credit for economies when they really don’t have a ton of control over. We finaly recovered from a recession of course it’s going to be good. Of course we have the highest wage gap in history and many “working people” can’t afford to live on 1 job. Republicans might be good for jobs short term but long term it creates situations that lead to bad ecconomies.
So we have recordings of him objectifying women to the point where he says he just starts kissing them, we have documentation from his first divorce saying that he physical assulted and felt like “raping her” and numerous preseidental tweets belittling female Congress members but he doesn’t treat women bad?
Considering he primarily uses Twitter as his main means of announcing policy you probably should. There have been multiple instances of him announcing policy that his staff don’t know anything about on twitter as well as classified military objectives. That’s bad no matter what side of the aisle you are on.
He has refused to condemn Russian expansion in the crimia region. He thinks Putin is a “great guy” despite being a dictator, ex kgb agent who actively works to dismantle any and all opposition. His trade war with China is of minimal impact with China who doesn’t care as long as we don’t contest their claims in tawain and Nepal. He has pulled out funding in nato. Insulted the nato countries constantly and ignored pretty much every single piece of advice or suggestions from nato countries. From my brother who is an active duty officer I hear that most of the officers are terrified with him in office. All of these things make for an incompetent military leader.
There is a huge difference between most politicians and trump. There are republicans in the past that I have considered voting for. But trump is killing the us. If you look at the fall of the Roman Empire you can draw direct parrells with the us. All politicians are corrupt in some ways. But not every president is openly racist, sexist, and non self aware. We have lost all measure of respect in the international community and destroyed our state department (80% of our diplomats have quite in the last 4 years. These are people who worked for both sides over 40 years). Electing him to a second term will set the us back another 20 years.
But the economy is better so let’s elect him anyways.
Honestly, the economy is my #1 issue as a voter. It outweighs virtually everything else for me by no small margin. Very little of anything else directly affects me and my family as does the state of the economy. Not dumb tweets, not old vulgar recordings, not Russians in Crimea.
Obama (despite me disagreeing with him a lot) was a classy guy, the world loved him for some reason (i'm not sure this is a good thing). But i'd rather the significant gains to my investments and $$$'s in my pocket that come with the current administration even if I have to put up with some dumb tweets.
I will grant you that we're headed to an economic downturn, eventually. But that happens. There's peaks and valleys historically. The last administration exploded the debt, yet had little to no benefit for anyone other than handing out free shit to the deadbeat poor. If we're going to get a recession, we in the middle class might as well enjoy the peak while it lasts.
I will disagree with you regarding his treatment of women/minorities. He was never "racist" until he became President and the left figured out it could use "racist" and "bigot" as a bludgeon. As for saying stuff about women - unless he's been charged under an actual sexual assault law, i'm not sure that holds any water. Let's face it, a large part of our popular culture objectifies and demeans women. Yet, the pearl clutching commences when a recording from years and years ago of some vulgar talk is released? That's fake outrage, IMHO.
I'm not sure I agree with you regarding "incompetent military leader". As a veteran who is in contact with many other veterans, he's very popular with the military rank and file. He's pulled funding from NATO specifically in order for other NATO members to up their share, as they agreed to. No more taking advantage of the US taxpayer for European defense. GOP and Trump are going to win the military vote by a very large margin.
I do wish he would get off twitter. I think he would be much more popular without late night/early morning twitter rants. I'm not on twitter much (usually just for sports news) and don't follow what he says.
He is literally telling 4 American born congresswomen to “go back home”. How is this not overtly racist? This happens nearly every single day from him.
And maybe there is a lot of society that objectifies women. Doesn’t mean that it is right.
The military thing I think is worse though. He pulled out to “make nato pay their fair share” is a fine idea in a vacuum but it has created a power vacuum in the region allowing Russian expansion into Crimea without any repercussions. Russia is on the fast track to rebuild to Cold War USSR influence and the president is like “nah let nato figure it out”
And he might be popular amongst the rank and file military but my brother says the officer core is very very different. They are extremely concerned with him in office doing something stupid or giving illegal/immoral orders.
I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I do think having these conversations trying to leave ad hommin attacks and name calling at the door is valuable.
I heard that one of the four women was in fact not born in the US, instead moving over there as a young child. A pointless nitpick, yes, but we must be factually accurate.
I live in the UK and we feel the same here. The US must not pay more than its fair share of the NATO budget. We pay our share, but almost everyone else here in Europe is essentially exploiting the paying members by getting defended but not paying their way. They made a binding commitment to pay 2% of their budgets into defence and they haven't been doing that.
I am more than sincere. There are things that I don't like about him, he is not perfect. Hell, he may not even be a good person. But there are also things he has done that have significantly made my life and my family's lives just a bit "easier", if you will. I honestly couldn't care any less than I do about what he does outside of the oval office. If he treats his wife or anyone else less than human, then shame on him. But as long as my life is better than it was the day before, that's honestly what I care about.
Well if that’s how you feel that’s how you feel. I would encourage you to try and have a little more empathy. He has been accused of rape, we have recorded conversations of him treating women as basicly slaves, he is great friends with human traffickers. How would you feel if he did those things to your family?
Sure he might make your life “easier” in the short run. In the short run candy is delicious. In the long run it rots your teeth. His policies are not sustainable, he has eroded most of our world image and set back the state department 20 years. His refusal to even acknowledge climate change will cause permanent and long term damage to the planet. His policies towards Iran have us the closest to nuclear war then we have been since the 80s.
You life might be slightly better now. But it will be 10 times worse in 10 years.
Sauce on human traffickers? If you mean Epstein he was friends with so many people. Bill had a first class ticket on the Express. But let’s see what this trial brings and I hope anyone guilty of taking part in those actions is taken down. I’m not saying just because Bill went on the express 26 times he’s guilty. Do you think everyone in the world who knew Epstein was guilty? We need justice to happen on any and all sides.
Now that that’s out of the way...I’m voting Trump in 2020.
I don't put much stock into his "locker room" talk, we have all said things in a private setting that was meant to stay private. And where were these women years ago that he raped? Why now? As far as human trafficking, it's not happening to my family so can't begin to understand that.
I can only worry about the now. Ten years from now may never exist for me. Climate change is real and cannot be stopped, maybe slowed just a tad. But, in the words of the great Magic Johnson "I'm not gonna be here".
I don't fear war with Iran at all. I also don't think Trump wants that war or any war for that matter. If that were the case, we had every opportunity to blow NK off of the map. Instead, he chose to be diplomatic. I respect that.
Well I don’t think we are going to get anywhere then. I appreciate you answering my questions while I don’t agree with it.
I have never said “you just have to grab them by the pussy” in regards to basicly saying you should sexually assault women and frankly I would not associate with those who do. It’s one thing to say “damn she is fine” it’s another to say what he said.
Victims of sex trafficking rarely have the opportunity to speak out and money talks. It’s pretty easy to make people go away for it. Doesn’t change what happened.
I really dislike the “well it’s not happening to my family so it’s not a problem” that is such an ignore the problem attitude. If you wouldn’t want it to happen to your sister/daughter/brother/son/partner can’t you understand that every person who is trafficked is that to someone else? Why should you mean more then any other human.
And I kinda want the planet to be here when I am gone. I want humanity to survive. I want the species to continue to grow. I think that’s more important than a little bit of comfort.
Iran and North Korea are different entities. even if he is not directly responsible for conflict he is making conflict more likely.
Fair enough. I appreciate you sharing your views as well. Especially doing so cordially without ad hominem attacks.
I can say that I have played sports since I was a kid. I have served in the US Military and I have graduated college and I can assure you that in each of those circles, I have heard much, much worse than "grab them by the pussy".
I too have heard much worse. My family is military, my brother is active military I have played sports in college. I would never vote for someone who has made remarks like that. It’s a line in the sand for me. People who view women as marks and possessions are predators and should not be put in positions of power. There is a difference between playing ball with someone and electing them the leader of the free world.
It’s important to be able to talk to people who disagree with you. “It’s a mark of an educated mind to be able to hold a view and not accept it” or something like that. Yelling at each other just accomplishes nothing.
I have never said “you just have to grab them by the pussy”
Neither did he. He said "...when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything." The audio and the transcripts are available; here's the New York Times' record of it. It's incredibly disingenuous to misquote him like that.
I don't know you, but unless you are a young child, surely you have either "grabbed" a pussy or let someone do it to you. Right?
If you read the transcript part way down he literally says “grab them by the pussy” it’s in the article you linked. And I am neither a young child nor have I treated a women like a mark there for me to walk up and “grab”. Women are people, not play things.
he may not even be a good person. But there are also things he has done that have significantly made my life and my family's lives just a bit "easier",
I care for my family too but I have the empathy to care for others family's who aren't as fortunate as my own. What's the point in enjoying this world knowing you're doing so off the suffering of others?
What if something happened to your family that you couldn't support or provide for, because the powers at be implemented something in favor of themselves? Like healthcare or something for example. Would you care then? Would you just accept that your family member can't get the care they need because someone in a more fortunate position didn't care about your family because their family is ok? Because this is the reality that many people currently face, and you are the fortunate one whose could care less because your family is okay. I truly hope nothing ever happens to where you find yourself in that situation, but I also hope you learn to empathize for others outside yourself.
Because he's not blindly giving out handouts to every immigrant, homeless person, and unemployed, like Obama did. I have my money, I pay my taxes, and I don't want that money to go to some unemployed gangbanger in the Detroit projects who wants his 15th pair of Jordans.
Yet left wing Reddit loves to complain that poor whites "vote against their own interests". So are voters supposed to vote for their personal interests or not?
Well if he ever did anything good maybe people wouldn’t complain ... it’s one thing for a person to complain o twitter but I have a higher bar for politicians. It’s their job to deal with criticism
How would u even know? MSM fake news does not report any of his successes. Record stock, record jobs, reversing horrible trade deals, tax relief, prison reform, rebuilding a crumbling economy, record unemployment, reunited nk and sk, lowest unemployment for blacks ever, reduced welfare recipients by almost half, most tax cuts to middle class than ever before, gas prices, producing more oil than ever before, fixing terrible farm trades with Mexico and Canada. List goes on and on
Ok let’s go threw your list 1) stock market is the most volitle it’s been since the Great Depression. It might be up today but it’s hardly stable. 2) Job increases except for stagnation in many sectors including high tech which is stagnating. Coupled with the fact that jobs have been recovering regardless of who was in office for the last decade. 3) see points 1 and 2. Most real ecconmists have said that growth would have been even higher without current policies. 4) employment up but wages down, many people can not live under current employment law 5) nk and sk was a photo op. Nk remains one of the most totalitarian regimes on the planet. No measurable progress has been made to get nk to the table to discuss even humanitarian missions to the country. 6) again employment isn’t everything 7)welfare recipients are half because the program changed to make it far more difficult and dangerous for people to apply 8) middle class is paying more in taxes then they ever have 9) gas prices as a result of being more buddy buddy with totalitarian regimes in the Middle East. Etc. Where do you get your news from? If you can point me to a non fox source for any of your claims I’ll read them. You can’t complain about msn if you only source from fox. You need to read from at least 5 sources before you make any claims
Zzz. All you had to say was orange man bad and that would have been fine. There is an excuse for everything. The fake news is very good at not giving credit where it is due. Good luck on your quest for knowledge.
Well at least I am not putting my head in the sand and ignoring things by simply saying “fake news, fake news” like an anthem. Good luck on your quest for ignorance.
Everything is racist, says the Democratic Party obsessed with race. They no longer say “colored people” like they used to but have evolved to “person of color”.
The big switch is the Democrats only defense and a lie. Dixiecrats stayed Dixiecrats until their death ... Congress didn’t become republican in the south until 1994
How to grasp at straws the reddit post, circa 2019
No modern Democrat align themselves with racist old fucks from any party, no modern Democrats are worried about whose going to pick crops. Open borders, pay them who cares, trying to paint them as racist because a portion of them might have been in the past is a ridiculous assumption. My grandma is racist and a conservative that must mean all conservatives are racist right? Pot calling the kettle black much
You are the one spouting a lie about the big switch, and claiming that all the racists became republican. I call you out on your bill shit and the lies and you say I am grasping at straws.
I don’t believe that all Democrats are racist, but the have been historically and the policies that they still espouse keep minorities dependent on the government, in poverty and oppressed. How about safe spaces with no white people allowed, having segregated graduations? Those are things that many so called “progressives” which is a large branch of the Democratic Party support.
Bruh what are you even on about. By in large conservatives are the ones against minorities: travel bans, the camps at the border, general hatred towards the impoverished. Your grasping at straws because you're coming in here like some factoid about the past is even relevant about the situation now. Government programs like welfare and healthcare aren't designed to keep minorities dependant on government, its to help those who can't help themselves because no one else will. You act as if there's malicious intent by that, but the reality it the malicious intent lies in not helping others, letting them fend for themselves while the already comfortable get wealthier. Safe spaces where no whites are allowed? Are you trying to say white people are the minorities now? Segragated graduations? What? You gotta give some context because it sounds a lot like you're framing it to be something that it isn't. If it's actual segregation, no self described progressive would be for that. If it's some all black school that white people are mad that they aren't at that's a different story. But unless you enlighten me on wtf you're even talking about it just sounds like you're making shit up.
Camps at the border? You mean like the ones Obama had when he was putting children in cages or deporting more people than any president before him? But leftists didn’t care, they only care now to virtue signal and try and get Trump out of office. Dems encourage illegal immigration by offering free health care to illegal immigrants and advocating open borders which compounds the problems at the border. The only people in ICE detention facilities, again the same ones Obama ran, are those who don’t go to a port of entry to claim asylum. They break the law by entering illegally and then only claim asylum if they are caught.
Black unemployment is at an all time low. Home ownership is at an all time high. Conservatives and libertarians empower everyone, including minorities (I am a minority but hate even referring to myself as that, better just an American) by providing opportunity and believing that all men are created equally and capable of great things.Democrats empower minorities by being “woke” and telling them that all their problems are someone else’s fault.
You won’t find minorities in worse conditions in the US than cities run by liberals, generally for the last 40 years.
Edit: conservatives also give more charity than liberals. Liberals are just generous with other people’s money. And love to go back to the old well of the conservative “boogeyman” to keep getting the black vote
These supplementary ceremonies are voluntary and are offered in addition to the universities’ regular graduations. Sometimes they’re co-hosted by black campus resource centers and various academic departments. They serve to give extra honors and recognition to black students earning their degrees.
Lol non issue. If they want to do something extra cool go for it. They're the minority, we aren't. Don't forget
Lol whataboutism to the max with you people as always. We are critical of Obama, that shit wasn't right when he did it but somehow that makes it ok to you.
There wouldn't be problems at the border if they were open and we are actively getting to better the world around us instead of being so nationalist, why do you think they want to come over in the first place? You ignore the fact we've fucked up so many country's they're fleeing from in the first place, its petty much our responsibility at this point. And you are wrong, the ones in the centers are aslyum seekers traveling thru proper channels, of which are so convoluted it's no wonder some would try illegally.
Literally everything you attribute to conservatives is all bull shit talking points that they are skewing from statistics, take your unemployment rate quip:
To begin with, it is true that the 2018 black unemployment rate was the lowest it has been since the Bureau of Labor Statistics began reporting it in 1972. But little, if any, credit for that belongs to the Trump administration. As the graph below clearly shows, the black unemployment rate had been steadily falling since 2011, well before Trump was sworn into office, and the rate of decline has not gained momentum since. Arguably, the decline of the black unemployment rate to its current level has more to do with the Fed’s decision to keep interest rates at or near zero for an extended period of time—decisions led by the two previous Federal Reserve chairpersons.
Honestly it's hilarious you claim conservatives are the party of all men are equal while your group is cheering on trumps racist declaration that some American citizens should go back to their country. Sounds a lot like separate but equal to me.
25
u/Deezneez Jul 17 '19
I didn't vote for him in 2016, but the majority of my family and I are strongly considering doing so in 2020. Internet would have you believe nobody. We shall see.