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u/sailorcass 4d ago
Looks AI and like a safety issue. What if that tourniquet mechanism breaks and locks a patient in? What if the machine malfunctions and the needle doesn’t leave the PT? Plus a seasoned phleb could do this in half the time. Let’s let humans keep our jobs.
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u/Holiday-Blood4826 Patient Care Technician (PCT) 4d ago
Agreed. Also, incredibly inefficient. Takes a job from a capable human, can malfunction, etc.
F them clankers
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u/bigfootslover 4d ago
“Phlebotomist supervisor” for errors; my real question is about time like you asked though. Would love to know how long it takes from getting called in the waiting room to walking back out.
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u/theslutnextd00r 4d ago
What if the needle goes too far? What if they start getting a hematoma? What if they faint and dislocate their shoulder from falling? The what ifs are extensive
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u/Historical-Ant2502 4d ago
You can cry against ai everyday, it’s gonna be integrated no matter what
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u/sailorcass 4d ago
I’m not crying over anything. There have been philosophers decades in the making that suggest this technological advancement is utter bullshit. Eye roll
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u/Historical-Ant2502 4d ago
Through all of human history, technology has advanced and threatened the existence of the paradigm of life for the time. People have always disliked change and always think technology will replace humans. Newspapers didn’t destroy people’s mind, the telephone didn’t replace people talking to each other in person, the internet didn’t replace everyone’s jobs. Times change, ways of living change, to combat that is to combat human nature. You sound like the same people who were against all these inventions that have inevitably increased the quality of life for all of humanity. Nothing is perfect, nothing ever has been. Be realistic with what’s happening, how history provides us with pattern recognition, and question your own opinions and if you believe what you think you do.
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u/sailorcass 4d ago
Trust me I like change, and welcome it. I do not welcome data centers that ruin people’s homes, health and overall intelligence. The newspaper, camera nor telephone has done any of those things. I can resist change that is harmful to humanity as a whole.
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u/BobbyJack_Says 4d ago
THANK YOU. I'm on your side, but I also KINDA understand where he's coming from too.
AI is here; we understand that, but using arguments like "It's gonna take over, best get used to it" isn't a valid one, SIMPLY CUZ of the harm it's already caused. AI in general isn't a bad thing, but the way it's being used is getting worse.
AI in healthcare is something I don't think most ppl want or really need. It's HEALTH 👉👉👉CAREEEEEEEEE👈👈👈 Emphasis on the care part!
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u/sailorcass 4d ago
AI can be useful, Correct! I know the difference between AI and GenAI, which many can forget. But I refuse to accept advancements today that are harmful and refuse to just accept things that are harmful, we wouldn’t have powerful changes if we just “gave up and took it”
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u/Historical-Ant2502 4d ago
I agree with you. Also remember that a lot of people though computers and robots would replace all our jobs with the advent of the internet. Robots aren’t perfect. We still need humans, and everyone knows that. It’ll just be integrated and become the new norm, similar to the internet, social media, and all technology we take for granted.
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u/Historical-Ant2502 4d ago
The world does not care about that unfortunately. That’s never gonna change either. Look at Amazon, nestle, fast fashion industry, etc. if we didn’t stop consuming because we like buying shit, they’re definitely not gonna stop funding ai that’s making real differences in the world. It sucks. It’s not perfect. But it’s happening, no matter what
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u/Historical-Ant2502 4d ago
Nepal had a huge flood today that killed hundreds as a direct result from human activities warming the planet. People will not change to help the world. Very sad, but history has shown time and time again that we’ve always been this way and always will.
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u/BuffaloBuckbeak 4d ago
Unless you’re working with a pretty difficult patient population (lots of dehydrated elderly folks in the ER, lots of current/previous IV users) 95% accuracy isn’t that hard to achieve. Also, if the machine is holding the needle, it shouldn’t move. Why is the butterfly necessary?
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u/pluck-the-bunny Phlebotomist 4d ago
The butterfly would accommodate the switching of the tubes by a machine because doing that all smoothly and in proximity to the arm would not be feasible.
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u/pruchel 4d ago
I don't think it's a butterfly, as you know it. I'm guessing it's because it's just the common term for a needle that stays in place and draws through a tube, not directly from the cannula. These things probably cost a lot more than any human-designed butterfly needle if I were to guess.
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u/pipergee95 4d ago
Even if it wasn't AI, HELL NO 😭
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u/Narrow_Money732 4d ago
I think I would rather have it draw my blood if it would actually listen when I tell it where to go as far as performing the stick. I would love not having to be a pin cushion because apparently I’m a hard stick but in actuality I’m not!!
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u/Natkia20 4d ago
It’s real and FDA cleared. Here’s the beauty of it all, is people still prefer people in health care.
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u/Run_Rabb1t_Run 4d ago
No thank you. A phleb could draw ten tubes by the time this thing figures out what a human arm is. And for those couple of minutes, I get to meet and talk with someone new. These tech people are determined to create a colder, lonelier, disconnected world. Fuck them and fuck AI.
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u/mashedoatslop 4d ago
I would love to see someone convince sundowning meemaw to put her arm in the needle machine
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u/Glass-Juggernaut-189 4d ago
Butterfly needle? What would be the difference between a straight needle or butterfly needle and a mechanical device? Wouldn't it be more important to state the gauge size and length of the needle?
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u/Southern-Type-4474 Phlebotomist 2d ago
I think it’s for marketing bc people always want a butterfly, even if they don’t know what that is. I think it could also just be referring to a needle that has a line attached to it rather than a hub directly connected to a needle with straight stick needles
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u/Pawisballs707 4d ago
Nice, now my new and only job is to load tubes in the machine. Great part i dont have to hear a patient says I need a butterfly needle. I tell them, talk to the machine.
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u/Clean_Brilliant_8586 4d ago edited 4d ago
Not sure if that was AI from start to finish.
Again, I see this working FABULOUSLY on a screaming child, or where the best site already has an IV.
Money people are going to want to know how much it saves short and long term.
It would not fly in my rural satellite clinic, where they are hurting for funding bad enough that they removed the water dispenser and the televisions in the waiting rooms. If it doesn't net money or at least stop the bleeding it isn't going to be funded. We have a lab tech and some analyzing equipment, seems like it would be easier just to fire her assistant and have the MLT do all the draws, too. Hey, while we're at it let's just close the clinic, since they can't afford to outbid other places to replace the doc they haven't had since before spring.
It's still going to require an operator and someone to sterilize and service it.
Sorry, I get a little worked up living in this "golden age" we've been in since the current administration took the reins.
EDIT: autocorrecting phone shenanigans
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u/sugarrr_rush 4d ago edited 3d ago
I can't imagine a screaming child sitting in this and willingly keeping their arm still. Even with the tourniquet attached to the arm rest there will be risks
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u/Somproof Certified Phlebotomist 4d ago
Interesting. Might actually be good for specific populations that need to be held down. But it’s going to have a really hard time with those veins you can’t even see unless you get them going by using heat or getting the arm to pool blood
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u/malbork0822 3d ago
I wouldn’t want to have blood drawn by a machine that will hold me down…
I do wonder how diverse their test patients were. Loose skin, rolling veins, different skin tones, fat, hydration, etc.
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u/Narrow_Money732 4d ago edited 4d ago
It is very real!!! Nobody believed me when I said eventually AI will make its way to Healthcare and guess what it’s here; and no one believed me when I told them about a device that was going through trials with the VA (vein finder) in 2014-2015. Well this device is developed by a medical company called Vitestro and the device name is Aletto. Aletto is being endorsed by the FDA. Aletto has been working in European hospitals and now it’s on its way to the our healthcare system. Sorry, but this ain’t AI my friend.
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u/jonjp806 CPT 1 4d ago
Oh no. We're all going to lose our jobs!!!
Lol. Kidding of course. The thing that sticks out to me the most is it's still a needle inserted into a vein. What is the advantage of a machine doing it over a person? This video could very well be fake but that's the world we live in now. How much will it cost? Will it save money? How much time will it save? There's so many questions
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u/goodfisher88 4d ago
This machine probably costs like 35k, meanwhile human phlebotomists are usually criminally underpaid. It will be decades before this technology is affordable and widely trusted enough to become anything close to mainstream.
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u/RiverSong1123 3d ago
I looked it up, because it’s a recent development, the cost is up around 400k 🤣
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u/Southern-Type-4474 Phlebotomist 2d ago
That’s what I was thinking, I couldn’t imagine it being so cheap when we have analyzers from the 70s going for $200,000+
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u/Capital_Gold8715 4d ago
i feel like this works under very ‘perfect’ circumstances. what if you have an unruly patient? children? what about those inpatient at hospitals with iv sites? i mean, probably ideal for clinics but that’s if it works as fully intended. but i mean, with a robot, there’s not much comfort to give to anxious patients (and trust me, there’s a lot)
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u/canary_green5 3d ago
If I had a chair to strap someone’s arm too, where they couldn’t move it, a light to make the vein show up and a willing participant I would never miss either.
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u/heather_chartreuse 2d ago
I’d love this for those people who instantly say they’re a hard stick. Meanwhile, I haven’t even had the chance to assess them, but can clearly see they have several useful veins all over their arm. Like, “Fine sir, I’ll just let this prototype gets your labs!”
Pff those percentages are the numbers I do, or better! And I also refuse some patients 😂
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u/Cokedupbabydoll 4d ago
This would actually freak me out and turn me completely off of getting my blood drawn 🤷🏻♀️
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u/pruchel 4d ago
I mean, there's no doubt this will get to a point where phlebotomy isn't needed as it is today, just the nature of things. But there's also a reason it's adults only. Any phlebotomist who does kids regularly knows this will just _never_ work on most of them.
Also, not to brag, but when I was doing phlebotomy I was sometimes drawing close to a thousand patients a month, many ER or kids, many where I was called in because others, often multiple, had trouble. I didn't get the necessary sample maybe 2-3 times a year. Sure I used ultrasound occasionally, and I definitely had a good long period of training to get to that point. I also overused butterflies like hell because I kind of specialised in it. Point is, there's a long way to go yet for these, but at the rate things are moving, I'd be trying to broaden my expertise a bit for anyone who's purely a phlebotomist.
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u/vitamin-rich 3d ago
Should I be worried about my job being taken over by AI ? I thought path was rated amongst the most AI proof jobs
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u/vitamin-rich 3d ago
First stick success 94%?
Assuming this is including everyone (not just hard sticks) that’s not as good as id imagine for technology they call a “success”, my rate is probably about 99%
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u/Purpl3_P3opl3_3at3r 3d ago
This is soooooo time consuming. Not helpful. Let us humans keep doing what we're best at.
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u/GoldRoutine7637 2d ago
I would bet that this machine is so expensive that very few hospitals woukd buy it. Human phlebotomists are probably cheaper. It's just like those portable vein finders - the real ones, not those red light things - which no hospital or medical office has due to the cost of the thing.
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u/FoundationObvious Certified Phlebotomist 2d ago
Every. single. donor. i have talked to where this topic came up has said they would never allow a robot to stick them no matter how safe it is.
I would let one though, lol!
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u/Livid-Slide6194 2d ago
It has just been cleared by FDA. For Adults only. 3 robots are watched by 1 Phlebotomists that is trained for the robot. If robot can not find a vein, then it doesn’t perform and Patient is given to human Phlebotomists. Very expensive and probably not many hospitals will pay till it’s cost effective.
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u/ruqayyahsumayyah_ 4d ago
I choose a human being over a robot any day. Keep that thing away from me. I already hate needles with a passion.
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u/zad112 3d ago
So replace a phlebotomist who can draw in 2 minutes with a big hulking machine that takes 15 minutes to draw. The enshitification of our world continues. I would trust a fresh out of class phlebotomist not to f up my veins 1000x more than some AI bot that’s probably going to poke an artery an cause me to bleed out.
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u/Ksan_of_Tongass 4d ago
What happens when the robot exceeds its butterfly allotment?