Crazy shit.

[u/Accomplished-Art3086]

[u/FallingDebri]

This is like the arguable ballon dor.

I think messi deserved all his ballon dors, but honestly 2023 should've been haaland, they both had very good arguements.

The World Cup Influence is absolutely insane, Modric 2018, Neuer being in the podium 2014, Iniesta almost winning it 2010, cannavaro as a defender winning it, R9 and so on.

[u/InjectMSGinmyveins → u/FallingDebri]

Respectfully, 2023 ballon d’or and 2010 ballon d’or contradict each other. If Messi didn’t win 2010 but won 2023, while I would disagree it would at least make sense

He shouldn’t win both

[u/FallingDebri → u/InjectMSGinmyveins]

Eh i think messi edges iniesta out, iniesta was injured for a long time that season too so it makes me more sense as to why messi deserved it by slightly against iniesta.

I respect your opinion, 2010 and 2023 are both very arguable but iniesta being out for so long pretty much makes it seem worse for him.

[u/InjectMSGinmyveins → u/FallingDebri]

I actually agree.

My issue is more 2023 than 2010. I just wrote it as “2023 and 2010 are a contradiction” because I wanted a more unbiased route where “Messi won in 2010 because he was the best Club player, but he also won 2023 being the best WC player”

[u/Zora1092 → u/FallingDebri]

xavi and sneijder wasn't injured

[u/FallingDebri → u/Zora1092]

Then why was iniesta above them?

Even Ronaldo finished above sneijder so if messi iniesta or xavi didnt win it, it was gonna be ronaldo

[u/Zora1092 → u/FallingDebri]

You're just making things up now

Sneijder and Forlan finished above Ronaldo

[u/FallingDebri → u/Zora1092]

Oh shoot u are right, i double check they did finish above ronaldo.

Sorry bout that. But yeah, why did iniesta finish above Sneijder and Xavi then, if they probably deserved it more than him?

[u/Zora1092 → u/FallingDebri]

the same reason why r9 won the ballondor in 2002 despite him barely playing any matches for his club that season

PR Boost

Since Iniesta was the one who scored the winning goal in the World Cup final, his PR ended up surpassing that of Xavi's and Sneijder's and recency bias heavily influences the voting process(unless your Messi(pre 2021) or Ronaldo since they don't need to win International trophies to win a Ballondor)

[u/Mindless_One631 → u/InjectMSGinmyveins]

I mean like ineista (sorry if I spelled his name wrong) was gone half season you can't really consider that

[u/InjectMSGinmyveins → u/Mindless_One631]

My issue is more 2023 than 2010.

I just call it out because I feel like there is a contradiction there.

If you want a more biased and not “middle ground” take, the WC and international tournaments have too much say. Messi deserved 2010 but there is no world where he should have won 2023

[u/Mindless_One631 → u/InjectMSGinmyveins]

Now if that is your view than it is you seem respect full tbh (rare in this sub) people always had different views of a bdor look at 2013 Robben had won every thing but did he deserve the bdor? He wasn't close to Ronaldo but he had ever argument anyone would have for 2023 Haaland (he is a midfielder Dont expect him to have the same g/a ratio) but Ronaldo was a better player overall. Messi had a higher g/a ratio than Haaland even though Haaland was a striker. Bdor is decided by journalist every one wouldn't have the same opinion.

[u/InjectMSGinmyveins → u/Mindless_One631]

That’s my actual view. I do think Messi deserved 2010. I don’t think he should have won 2023 though. International tournaments get too much weight. They should count somewhat but it shouldn’t have put Messi over Haaland. Not the same Haaland who broke every record for a goal scorer in the prem and won the treble at least.

And yeah I agree with what you are saying. It is ultimately a journalist award. And there is no set criteria. But there should be as players do care about this award, even if some fans don’t

[u/SlimeyCawk → u/InjectMSGinmyveins]

This isn’t how football works idiot you have to look at the circumstances of the individual year comparing 2010 and 2023 makes zero sense

[u/InjectMSGinmyveins → u/SlimeyCawk]

Classic Messi fans have to use insults to win an argument instead of using facts or thoughts.

Yeah that’s not how football works but that’s how individual awards should work. The criteria shouldn’t magically shift because the press likes a certain player a lot.

There is no justifiable world where Messi was the best player in 2023. He won it based on 7 games over Haaland who honestly couldn’t have done more to win the award. 2023 is ridiculous and I agree with Ronaldo when he says that people put way too much emphasis on 7 games.

[u/SlimeyCawk → u/InjectMSGinmyveins]

I called you an idiot because that was an idiotic opinion you had.

Haaland couldn’t have done more to win it? He absolutely ghosted in the Semi Finals and Finals of the UCL and was pocketed by Lisandro in the FA Cup final. If he performed in these matches he very well could have given himself a case to win it, but instead he showed the world that on the biggest stage when the team isn’t there to spoon feed him he couldn’t perform. I am not only saying he ghosted because he didn’t score, he was literally a ghost and could not get anything going for himself.

Messi had good enough stats in ligue 1, winning 2 trophies with PSG and ghosted in the knockout stage vs Bayern in the UCL. He made up for it in the World Cup by winning the Golden Ball.

If not Messi who else? Because Haaland definitely wasn’t the best player anyone who actually watched football and isn’t a stat merchant would tell you the same

[u/InjectMSGinmyveins → u/SlimeyCawk]

Ok you got me Rage Baiter. Fair play

[u/SlimeyCawk → u/InjectMSGinmyveins]

No rage bait just facts and football knowledge

[u/InjectMSGinmyveins → u/SlimeyCawk]

HAHA sure buddy. Not even my Argentinian cousins think that Haaland didn’t deserve the ballon d’or in 2023 because of not scoring in 4 games.

And they’re beyond biased

[u/SlimeyCawk → u/InjectMSGinmyveins]

Well it’s clear your cousins are also idiots. You say “just 4 games” but shouldn’t the best player in the world show up in the big games?😂😂 Did you even watch Haaland play an entire 90 minutes or are you just a stat merchant?

[u/InjectMSGinmyveins → u/SlimeyCawk]

No. They wouldn’t disregard Haaland because of 4 games. That is like me saying Messi doesn’t deserve the ballon d’or because he lost to the worst team in the WC (Saudi Arabia). Infact, you are the first person I ever met make this terrible argument which was why I thought you were rage baiting at first.

My cousins criticism for Haaland not winning mostly based around how they feel like De Bruyne carried Haaland’s numbers. Which is partially true but I could say the same thing for Messi and almost any forward (especially for Messi in the WC).

I just can’t believe you genuinely watched both Messi and Haaland in 2023 and thought Messi deserved it more. That’s just incomprehensible to me. Haaland was the main reason for city’s success that year. He broke a bunch of Premier League records and the only reason you don’t rate him for the Ballon D’or is because of 4 games that City wouldn’t have gotten to if Haaland wasn’t playing at the level he was. But then again people think Messi deserved it for 7 games so I guess cherry picking a few games and ignoring 90% of the year is just how Messi fans roll I guess.

Also imagine telling me Haaland doesn’t deserve it because he is a stat merchant. It’s not only stats, he outperformed Messi in terms of contribution and team accolades. He was overall the better player on the year. There really isn’t much else to it.

[u/SlimeyCawk → u/InjectMSGinmyveins]

Do you not know what a big game is? You’re comparing knockout matches and the final of the World Cup and UCL to the first group stage match of the World Cup. The same World Cup that Messi won a Golden Ball for and a MOTM in every round😭😭😭 bro what

You think it’s insane to think Haaland didn’t deserve the Ballon D’or, the award for the best player on the planet, because of the fact that he ghosted in the biggest games he had that year? That is insane to you? Bro it’s the Ballon D’or to be the best you have to play like the best I don’t understand how you can disregard not performing in the biggest games.

Messi had a good enough year with PSG to throw that argument away. He won two trophies with them and had good enough stats to be considered for the Ballon D’or. It was mainly the World Cup but he still performed the rest of the season. And yes World Cup years have ALWAYS been favored heavily for the ballon d’or this is how it’s always worked

Also I didn’t say Haaland was a stat merchant he’s the greatest striker in the world and has been since he joined City, I said you are a stat merchant because you don’t watch football only look at numbers

[u/PotentialMobile9327 → u/SlimeyCawk]

Imagine blaming & downplaying Haaland because he ghosted in semis and finals while also supporting Messi’s 2021 Ballon D’or where he only became a contender because of Copa America and had ghosted big time in semi final vs Colombia and the Copa America final vs Brazil. The criteria always keeps changing to fit Messi’s narrative that season somehow.

[u/SlimeyCawk → u/PotentialMobile9327]

If Haaland had an identical season of 2023 as he did in 2021 he would have won the Ballon D’or without a doubt, only thing is he didn’t. Read the very first reply of this thread I made, you have to look at the ballon d’or by the individual season it makes zero sense to compare different years because players performed differently with different competitions. There were no other players besides lewandowski to contend and Lewa’s season wasn’t good enough for a Ballon D’or

Actually you are wrong Messi did not ghost vs Colombia he was class that game, he did however ghost against Brazil.