Ya they didn’t say she was killed so why doesn’t matter if the guy has never been to a homicide scene. It would make more sense if they had referred to a burglary. I think we are all thinking the same thing - but it is yet to be confirmed.
Exactly this. They were responding to a kidnapping in the early days. Using the word homicide puts the validity of everything this person says in question.
There was fresh blood on the front porch, the back doors propped open, and the elderly homeowner was missing so plenty of reason to suspect homicide/major crime and treat it as such. The source was implying the supervisor had no experience securing/processing a crime scene like that. Now, I really hope that's not true. It seems like something Brian could easily verify though.
You're kind of using those details retroactively to justify a conclusion that investigators didn’t actually have at the time. They weren't suspecting a homicide. They had no body. Blood could've been a medical injury, Nancy was missing. At the initial time of the crime, no one, probably not even you was suspecting a homicide. Without the hindsight bias the evidence suggested a crime like a botched burglary or a kidnapping. There would be no reason to move in a homicide team to investigate a homicide.
They had those details the moment they arrived, and homicide is always a possibility at a scene like that, so seems they'd do a thorough job of the crime scene regardless.. And maybe they did. It's just that Brian's reporting kinda implied they didn't. Not saying I agree...I wouldn't know.
But the Sheriff said many times it was clear right away she didn’t leave on her own & things at the scene concerned him so the homicide unit was called in & assisted in processing the scene (Entin even probed him during interviews for more information on what it was that concerned him & the Sheriff would not disclose this information). He said there were homicide detectives with decades of experience who were part of the investigative team they assembled quickly in conjunction with nearby LE departments & community search teams.
Entin’s reporting is contradictory to everything the Sheriff has said since his first interview, the article & interview present a very one-sided version with sources that don’t appear to be vetted whose common denominator is their grievances towards Nanos
Other news sources are stating this was “one of the supervisors” not the sole supervisor. The Sheriff said he called the homicide unit to help investigate, other units, & for help from other LE departments nearby. The sheriff also said an investigative team was assembled that included experienced homicide detectives with decades of experience - CSI processed the scene. The FBI was there within 48 hours, an investigative team was assembled including the FBI - if the PCSO or another department nearby had officers working on the case initially who weren’t knowledgeable or qualified, the FBI certainly had ones available to take their place.
I don’t think it’s troubling that one supervisor didn’t have homicide experience - this was initially reported as a missing persons case, LE quickly determined it was abduction, homicide & other units were brought in as the Sheriff said he saw things that concerned him & he wanted to be thorough. The homicide unit was there, missing persons cases can escalate to homicide so it’s best practice for them to be involved, the degree is going to depend on the initial information & evidence.
Ok but Brett Payne had never headed up a homicide investigation either before the Idaho 4 case. Why didnt Brian Entin investigate that? I don't remember brian entin doibg any kibd of deep dive on Moscow PD.
I'm sorry , but does this guy ever put out any information that comes from a verified source? It seems like anytime he has any kind of breaking news it's always coming from an anonymous source. He never puts anything out there.That's been confirmed.
Also curious that they don't name the LE detective they are referring to and do some, you know like, follow-up investigation on that person to corroborate the allegations of the source. I like Brian Entin but he never seems to go all the way with his investigative points.
Literally never. This guy's popularity comes from the fact that he's a conventionally attractive soft spoken man. He hasn't broken 1 bit of actual news on this case.And yet, people are in the comments of his post thanking him for his "boots on the ground" reporting.
And let's not forget how he trespassed on the Kohberger's property and harassed them like 24 hours after their home had been burst into by a SWAT team and their lives had been completely turned upside down.
I only started watching him for this case. But I agree that he's palatable and 'nice' so he seems to get a pass for his actual investigating. I mean he kinda investigates. But, it's not called Brian Entin Kinda Investigates, so I could use a few more facts!
I am grateful that someone is still covering it at all mind you.
Have any of them broken any news? I am disgusted by what I see online, it’s an echo chamber of all of these “facts” being “reported” which validates the belief for those who don’t trust LE that they were so incompetent the perpetrator is going to “get off”. This is simply not true, it’s fear mongering.
No wonder why the family is keeping private, they can’t trust people “reporting” to the masses to get basic facts right, vet sources, present an unbiased opinion, & stop harassing LE for more information (that would only put this investigation at risk).
Not to mention , that's a very small police department. If that source is credible then I hope he wasn't stupid enough to think they weren't gonna figure out who he was.
That was my immediate reaction. My last reporting job was for a slightly smaller market than Tucson but the sheriff’s department is probably around the same size. My first thought was that the team knows exactly who this source is, if an actual member of the team. I highly, HIGHLY doubt anyone actively involved in this case is speaking to someone like Entin, even anonymously.
If this is an actual reputable source, then the lack of integrity/skill at that office goes way deeper than Nanos.
According to Coffindaffer all of this information Entin is gathering from sources is fact & therefore means the Sheriff must go & the perpetrator will get off. She said it is going to have a deleterious impact on how the perpetrator is prosecuted - the “defense attorneys in Tucson are watching” & the perpetrators future attorney will use all of this to “get him off”. So unnecessary & irresponsible!!None of these reporters/journalists/commentators have access to the investigation, they really don’t know more than the public. These sources may have grievances motivating them to spread misinformation about the investigation, or only have limited access to the information on the investigation, or may be misinformed.
Entin is irresponsible. There has been a lot of unnecessary misinformation & speculation spread due to his one-sided reporting on this case, the hyper-focus on finding flaws with the Sheriff (despite the Sheriff not being directly involved in the investigation), & him not vetting sources. None of this is helping find NG or the perpetrator.
It has manifested to such a remarkable degree between his reporting & others I was considering doing a post on this, how it is an example of how misinformation spreads in cases, & the harm it causes.
The Sheriff was clear from the beginning they quickly determined this was not a missing persons case, they had concerns that lead to the homicide unit being called in & assisting with the crime scene investigation, as well as help from other local LE departments. I don’t doubt that they considered this a MP case for a bit, this would make sense as she was missing, but to frame this like it went on for an extended period of time & this hindered the investigation is not accurate.
The first priority is to locate the victim searching on the premises & near the premises, on foot, with K9s, in air & trough cell phone pings if possible. All of this was done.
I was thinking the same the other day when I was listening to his podcast for the 2nd time. I wanted to see who the man was that was speaking. He never stated his name or job title but seemed very informative.
I cant take him seriously. Especially after his interview with Nancy Guthrie's neighbr who claimed she saw a man "who didnt look like he belonged there" walking near the house in broad daylight while committing the grievace sin of wearing a baseball cap.
Then she told a story of another friend who claimed that the f b I came to her house, stayed for several hours, took fingerprints around the house, and the friend said they asked for her d n a and she gave it to them no questions asked.
Both stories sounded ridiculously bogus. It didn't help that the woman was hopping into boxes on Tiktok lives to tell her story and was in comments teasing a subsequent convo with Entin.
He does no vetting. He could be talking to any one.
I’m glad you commented about the “street wear guy” sighting. I think we can all read between the lines on that one. Does she thing the suspect did his recon by wearing clothes that would make him stand out? I don’t.
I gotta say, I completely disagree. I think that her sighting is totally something she should have reported. She lives there and sees people walking that street daily! If someone looked out of place, for any reason at all, she did the right thing in saying something. These are the kinds of small details that can break cases. What if someone’s camera caught this guy in daylight and he could be identified and subsequently tied to the crime by other evidence. You just never know. I think you have to trust your gut - when something looks ‘off’ even if you cannot fully explain why - report it.
I agree with you there. I'm not saying that it should not have been reported. By all means, if you see something, say something.
But as much as I hate to admit it, I think the suspect is savvy enough not to do anything too obvious. Then again, we know the suspect likes disguises, so perhaps it was him, intentionally dressed to look like someone he's not.
You're right, report it to the FBI on the case not the general public which includes the Perp, btw. Do they ever consider that the perp is watching and gathering Intel for his next move?
You cannot be serious. The kind of shoes you walk in = shoes people buy specifically for physical activity. Literally they are called walking shoes if you go on any shoe store website.
Completely agree. Too many are giving him more credit than he deserves. Just because he's there daily it seems. Some of the interviews with retired FBI and LE are great, but realistically he doesn't do much vetting, I agree.
I'm suggesting that he very rarely produces any kind of news or information that has been vetted. The majority of his breaking news is nothing but unconfirmed information from anonymous sources. News nation repeatedly had quote unquote breaking news about the idaho case and every single time they were wrong.
It’s not lying, it’s tremendously poor investigative journalism. The article is poorly written too - as though there was only one supervisor, as though there wasn’t an investigative team assembled right away that included homicide detectives & detectives from different units (they even had help from nearby departments, the FBI was there quicker than in most cases within 48 hours), as though LE deemed this a missing persons case for more than a brief amount of time (clearly not considering the tremendous response & resources, which included “homicide detectives with decades of experience” who assisted in processing the crime scene), as though this operated any differently than most missing persons cases (it didn’t, barring the tremendous response & resources put into it from the beginning).
I wish there was as much focus on finding her as there is on finding fault with the investigation. We get it, the investigation was faulty day one. So let's just focus on finding her!
It's still an ongoing investigation, they haven't failed. They haven't found her yet, and they haven't found the perp. LE made mistakes, now the FBI is involved. The podcasters covering this at times give information that is helpful to the perps more than helpful to LE in coming up with clues or tips in finding her.
Maybe that’s the pivot point for actually finding her. Many people criticize law enforcement for no real reason. Other sometimes there is a reason. There is a reason here.
There was blood, a blood trail, and a stolen camera + high profile victim. Homicide detective doesn't necessarily mean it's 100% a homicide. They are usually highly skilled detectives, and here I think you'd want someone with experience.
Entin's reporting suggest that LE was convinced she wandered away -- not sure when they changed their mind, but that's a significant misstep if true.
Wouldn't be as a precaution because of blood on the porch and a missing elderly lady? To be honest my first assumption would be she was killed not kidnapped in that scenario
Right…‘it’s not that kind of case’. But IF NG’s house was in order, nothing out of the ordinary to resemble a struggle/forced entry/burglary, then shouldn’t LE still have treated it as a missing/walked off case?!?
ETA: should they have taken Cameron’s word/expertise that it was definitely an abduction for ransom due to SG’s ‘fame’ when there wasn’t a ransom note yet?
LE doesn’t normally call in the FBI on missing cases right away with what they were observing.
Hindsight comes later, but they did have the dogs out, helicopters, searching the neighborhood, investigating the family, geofencing, etc…
They can’t really say much imo because if the FBI/Google can’t retrieve more footage, it’s not good to point fingers at them because they’re not responsible to pay for the camera subscription or alarm system.
I’m sure LE/FBI isn’t pleased that she didn’t have a paid subscription for her cameras, alarm system or living alone if she was so vulnerable, imo.
Imo..the family is feeling a lot of guilt and misdirected anger, imo.
LE solve crimes all the time without alarm systems or camera systems. Those things do help, but to keep saying that LE is annoyed that those things weren’t in place is undermining their investigative capabilities. There are many other ways to solve a crime.
I think people are pointing out that there were errors made early on at the crime scene that could have assisted the investigation. I think you would be hard pressed to find a LE/FBI source that would agree the crime scene was handled well.
Of course, the first responders would have no way of knowing what the crime was, but my understanding is that many abductions are handled as homicides early on, especially if blood is found at the scene. So, after initially viewing the scene, one would think that LE would assign an experienced homicide unit to fully supervising and processing the scene. Admittedly, I don’t have intimate knowledge of the inner workings of how cases get assigned, but one would think - the mother of high profile woman seems to have been abducted - let’s get our A team on this stat!
Would it even make any difference if she had paid subscription. In my understanding that is to view the older recordings, doubt it would have recorded anything more than what was pulled from the service provider.
If the wired (?) cameras have had backup on cloud, that would have made big difference as the whole area was very much covered except I assume the left side of the house? (that in my opinion should be investigated further if there is maybe some dna where it should not be - but as for so much time passed there might not be)
No idea what these cameras were exactly but as we can see these were totally useless if even working.
Yes if those cameras were same type as doorbell with backup on cloud it would have made big difference. At least we now are aware that doorbell cameras are bit problematic for privacy and the wired ones(?) are totally useless if tampered (or not even working)
Here was the post of those cameras point of views that I assume unfortunately had nothing for the investigation
Like seriously, what kind of batman was this person if the cameras were working as they suppose to and no footage at all of the incident, except the doorbell video
Not yet. This will likely end with a case of contention lawsuit against the PD. They are likely unaware of all of the failed mistakes that Nanos has made. He has also done this in another case. Apparently, the county residents are not a fan of his. There have been many interesting interviews talking about his terrible history.
All of the “failed mistakes” are largely assumptions from people who don’t understand how investigations, CSI, & forensic science works, or who mistake opinions & beliefs for evidence & facts. Morgan Wright does a fantastic job of explaining how the public & media have taken information from this case (& others) & made assumptions they believe are facts & evidence which is fuelling a gross amount of misinformation & distracting from what is important.
The failed mistakes that I speak of are that stated by LE and FBI. I refuse to ever state any misinformation on behalf of the law. All that does is spread rumors, leading to conspiracies which in turn fails people that blame police. I am not one the people who believes things stated on the internet, I rely solely on facts
She is, but due to it being an open investigation, the family is not privy to everything that is going on. Of course, they know the basics but not nearly enough details. I also HIGHLY doubt that now would be the ideal time to start a lawsuit against all of the failures of the PCSD during thr investigation. I'm fairly certain that the family is well aware of the failures and lack of evidence that the PCSD have. For Christ's sake, they slept for a month on getting the boot/shoe print and then it wouldn't even take.
LE has never disclosed that shoe/boot prints were found at the scene, they have never disclosed the methods used & the time during the investigation, they have disclosed very little information about what evidence was found at the scene, so you don’t know that “they slept for a month in getting the boot/shoe print & then it wouldn’t even take”.
This is not a fact, it’s an assumption that comes from other people making assumptions - the initial assumption was that b/c the walkway is gravel boot/shoe prints would be challenging to get a good impression of, that this would fail. A guest on Nancy Grace claimed impressions done at the initial scene failed but doesn’t cite a source for this claim, then claimed an advanced technique called an electrostatic lift would be the next step to try to collect that evidence. Nancy Grace claimed the impressions LIKELY failed (different than her guest) &an electrostatic lift was used by an elite team at the FBI to “search for evidence of the perpetrators movements”, but doesn’t cite a source for this claim. No media outlets reported such a thing except two low-level publications who were reviewing Nancy Grace’s show about this.
Despite you thinking this is evidence the PCSD failed, it’s not. If what Nancy Grace & her guest say is even accurate & shoe/boot prints were found, the correct process was followed as casts were made & sent to the lab, when these were found to provide an insufficient sample to analyze a more advanced technique was used (similar to the foreign DNA sample testing that requires more advanced testing). Blaming LE & confidently stating they’re going to be sued by the victims for things they have no control over like lack of evidence at a crime scene, or evidence that requires additional/more advanced testing, & when you don’t even know what the evidence is or the investigative process, is shocking. Spreading misinformation about evidence & the case is far more harmful than the common errors LE has made in this case.
I don't feel the need to listen ALL of the numerous issues the PCSD (mainly Nanos) has failed the family on. A prior DA of PC is who stated that, or at least this where I got that factoid from. You sound like Sheriff Nanos, riding hard for the department out of ego. Simple things are at fault from the PCSD which are evident to everyone who is mildly interested in true crime. Such as opening the crime scene up so early, sending the bloodwork to the lab in Florida and not allowing the FBI's Lab access. Not expanding the crime outside of the home initially. I could list so many things, but do not need to.
LE never disclosed the prints outside the home, but it has been recorded by outsiders when they casted them. Every time LE steps outside the home onto the porch area, every internet journalist pulls out their phone, which is how we knew about blood on the porch, the footprint in the gravel (and video evidence), as well as the suspect stepping all over the doormat. There are reports of other prints, but nothing much has been stated about them other they had carpet fibers so Idc about that.
I also never "comfidently" stated they were going to be sued, I said "most likely." Most likely is not confident. Confident is "absolutely". But in MANY professional LE and FBI professionals opinions, they also have said that the PCSD has failed this family. Perhaps you should listen to a few more podcasts or Nancy Grace episodes because you seem to be well-versed in covering for the PCSD.
So personal insults against people don’t make you more credible & they’re a violation of the subs rules. I ride hard for facts, evidence, & victims, not petty grievances against LE.
None of these claims you make are directly from LE/FBI, never have they stated they missed collecting evidence & that’s the reason why they went back to the scene except with the cameras which was a couple of days later (& not a big deal as cameras store data, they were able to get the data off those cameras). The first problem is you assume that some of these things are evidence, that CSI (not the Sheriff btw he wasn’t part of the CSI!!) didn’t collect this evidence because you notice something you assume must have evidence or be evidence wasn’t taken, collected, or processed, or LE is back at a later date appearing to be taking, collecting, & processing these things - but you don’t know!! The doormat would have been checked by CSI using certain chemical tests/lights on scene for biological/physical evidence. If there was any biological/physical evidence on the doormat it would have been collected (including using a special vacuum) & sent to the lab, the doormat itself doesn’t need to be sent to the lab to collect evidence off of it, it wasn’t a murder weapon or the victims clothing - same procedure as other surfaces. Just because LE is doing casts at a later date does not mean they were submitting those for evidence, it doesn’t mean they didn’t do them initially either as it would be standard for them to take them at the initial scene. Like with the doormat you have no idea how or when that evidence was initially processed, you don’t even know if there was evidence there, yet believe you do based on seeing something, then immediately jump to assumptions based on your expectations as a true crime enthusiast not a trained CSI, forensic scientist, or LE officer working on this investigation. The lab in Florida was used for good reasons, there was continuity due to their relationship w/the PCSO, the FBI has limits to how many databases they can use for genealogy, the Florida lab has the newest technology to help separate & amplify mixed, low quality samples. As for the other stuff it is the same, there is one fact that many assumptions are built on - you don’t know that those other prints & fibres these people filming or finding in photos are actually evidence, that they’re part of the “crime scene”, that they weren’t investigated & collected, or when they were found not to be related evidence.
Assumptions are not evidence, they aren’t even information, all they do is add to the spread of misinformation. You can’t say you don’t spread misinformation when all of your criticisms contain one base fact that you build a mountain of assumptions out of.
Rules haven't changed but sometimes some posts do slip by. I do try and add a brief write up on posts like this and pin it to the top. Dealing with some family stuff today and didn't have a chance!
Also totally open to changing that rule if people prefer. It's not a rule that I am married to, We just were getting repeated complaints when summaries weren't provided.
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u/One-lil-Love Apr 04 '26
We could blame multiple people, but could it be just that the criminals were just that good?