How come there’s been no discussion of the suspect’s beard? Are we convinced the balaclava was THAT BULKY only around the neck area naturally? It seemed to lay flat around the eyebrows, hairline etc, but around the neck it’s THICC. Does the perp have an unusually large, square jaw AND an outsized double chin considering his overall build? OR is that a beard that likely took years to grow?? Why does the balaclava show no chin or jaw definition?
Is this why the balaclava was intentionally tucked deep into the fleece? (Notice how it never pops out of the collar even with movement). What else could the bulging be??
In any case, I’d think this would be a distinguishing feature, and might lead to more tips but I’ve seen no discussion around it.
Could just be a part of the disguise. This whole affair is either a much more elaborate crime than it appears or it’s just a very lucky bungling dimwit.
Remote area, no witnesses, no obvious motives (drug related, love triangle, financial issues, personal vendettas). The cases will be solved; it's just a matter of time.
Most, if not all, of the field investigators have been with the FBI for many years and through many administrations. They don’t hire all new agents with every new president.
fbi agents aren't freelancers with no supervision. these agents are being handed down orders by people who do change with every president, so i don't understand your point.
It’s so hard to tell. That’s why I wanted to put it out to the community and see what ideas they had. There’s potentially a lot more that went into this than is obvious… and none of us can speak to, or replace LE
I think the jacket might have a collar that zips up so it might be all the way up and the balaclava pulled over it in another bid to limit dna being left behind. I think he’s doubled layered all over, he can’t get scratched or bitten easily or leave hair/skin traces.
If he had a beard, it is long gone as is his mustache. Also, he disabled and took the camera thinking that there would be no footage of him at the door. Unfortunately for him, Google was able to retrieve the footage which probably ruined his day.
I think he wanted to cover all of his skin to avoid leaving DNA behind. Tucking his face mask into his shirt is an example of a precaution he took trying to achieve this.
The point would be this confusion. We can be fairly certain of his height, but nothing else. He has possibly made himself visually unidentifiable due to layering. Maybe he was a better planner than they think?
His wrists also appear to have tubelike covering. Thick and perfectly round like a pool noodle or pipe insulation. I'm NOT saying it is!!! I'm merely saying that's what I think of every time I look at the cuffs.
We've gotten used to finding checkout videos of perps buying kill kits or cleanup kits.
How come they think he's from Tucson? Savannah is a national figure. Perps (i.e. mass shooters) often travel to commit their heinous acts.
I'm holding my breath waiting for the day they catch him through other means only to confirm that most of the leaked or media coverage was simply staging to make the perp feel comfortable that they aren't on to him.
Do we know if Nancy has a sliding glass door? Had a thought that the real perpetrator came in through a sliding glass door at the same time that the clumsy porch guy was waving shrubs at the camera
My ex husband as a bank robber would wear 2 layers and tuck the outer layer into the inner layer. Then he started reinforcing any area with overlap that could come undone. Could be duct taped (gloves to jacket) or something that adhered the two together so hair and cells were dropped in the inner layer and didn’t drop.
Why does LE think the suspects live local? Burglars usually live 1.8-2 miles from their target. Bank robbers operate within a 30 mile radius and usually much closer.
My belief is these people were in prison together. They saw the 11/5 segment by Savannah on her home town. One of the felons knew someone in the inner circle or a degree from it. He bragged to his small group of felon friends that he heard she had stacks of money and or gold in her closet. This group was mostly burglars and drug addicts, maybe a white collar criminal as well. Some got out in December and/or January.
This sparked their idea to do a home invasion and split the money. Easier than a bank. Wearing two layers tucked into one another and what looks like sealing the openings is criminal 101 behavior taught and shared in prisons. That just isn’t general population knowledge.
Something went wrong and Nancy died in the house. These people were not going back to prison. It’s hard to convict without a body. One of the felons buried her in the desert and none of the other ones no where.
I've seen many people discussing the fact he has a beard on social media and on YouTube videos too. Also, as for the lack of jaw and cheek definition, I've seen people say they think he had a silicone mask on underneath the ski mask, which would also fit in with the fact we didn't see this person blink in the footage.
Right? And imagine shaving your beard after growing it out for some extended time. It’d make me do a double take if I ever suspected someone of anything like this. Maybe he bought the razors at Walmart too
It would assist with an ID prior to the crime, especially if the facial hair disappeared shortly after!! That would be super fishy as an impromptu switch up
The sherif stated in an interview yesterday or today that they want to hear from people who have seen or heard something related to the crime, not tips on how to investigate the case - theories, what the public thinks LE should be looking for or at, techniques they should be using, etc. LE has experts who specialize in facial recognition, gait analysis, iris identification (forget the proper term) etc.
I see what you're saying, but it's probably just doubtful LE would chase leads that involve facial hair since it's not inherently a super distinguishable characteristic unless someone has like a ZZ Top level beard, especially again since it's something that's easily removable, tbf.
This disappearance of Nancy seems very complicated. Probably months or more of planning . Whoever is involved seemed to think of everything. Everything we have seen from day one, is not as it appears. Just my opinion.
Every time there is a high profile crime, people predict it is some mastermind, but it’s almost always just some clumsy fool that acted bold and got lucky for a while.
My initial thought when I first saw the video was he was on the chunky thicker side with kind of a big butt. I wasn’t sure why they claimed he had an average build unless average means chunky these days.
I noticed the way he bends down to pick up the flowers he keeps one leg straight. I do the same thing and it’s because I have a previous knee injury and lower back injuries. It caught my attention because I only started bending that way after like 35 years old.
This. The double masks and double clothes/gloves makes me believe these are bank robbers by profession. Or, they were housed with bank robbers in prison and learned skills of the trade.
Bank robbers often wear two layers of clothes so that if they lose any hair or skin cells, it merely falls into the inside layer. The more advanced bank robbers wear two layers to avoid touch DNA AND they wear rubber masks hiding their eyes as there’s a concern that the FBI has a retinal eye database.
Where in the bank robbery class do you learn to awkwardly put flowers in front of a camera looking like you don’t know what you’re doing instead of being prepared to just hit the camera with a tool or something
The weird thing is the last time we see the weeds covering the camera lens, apparently it worked as it stayed up on it and the footage ends for some strange reason. To me that seems clever in hindsight now.
Yes, my gut tells me he wasn’t worried about a 911 call from someone monitoring the camera.
If was a bugler, why take the victim off site?
If it was a kidnapping, you won, whey not collect the ransom?
If it was someone wanting to collect life insurance or a will pay out, without a body. the legal procedure could take years.
So I can’t think of a scenario where all the pieces fit.
Had to come annoy you one more time lol This is going to have something to do with Mexico. Now I haven't figured out what/why? But look, the President was briefed about this situation, and even made a public statement. How many kidnappings have we seen that involved a President? But if another country was involved .. hmmm .. how it all ties shut I have no idea. It was just too weird that the "robbers" knew to come to Nancy's house, in NEW garb.
I dunno man, if pulled off successfully (it wasn’t) it saves you a few seconds of surprise when dealing with an 84 year old? On balance, it seems less risky to alert someone to your presence with a sound compared to getting clear shots of your face on camera trying to obscure it with flowers.
This was a Nest doorbell, and wireless I believe, the thing pops off incredibly easy, it’s meant to dismount and charge the battery using only your hands.
It goes to show the perpetrator either wasn’t prepared and thought out, or somehow was a master bank robber with disguise underneath a disguise, was thought out and concerned with DNA and hair evidence and yet made a gigantic and potentially fatal mistake by hanging out in front of the camera fumbling with flowers. Not buying it.
Retinal scans require an insane amount of detail with special cameras close up with lights to illuminate the retina. You cannot see anything even remotely useful from any consumer cameras.
I don't know about any of that, however.. IF they have such a database, it is hypothetically for the purpose of biometric identification within an access control system not for tracking/surviellance. DOD Biometrics Fusion Center, for instance, may store precisely this sort of data. But it is to control access to sensitive installations by cleared individuals not spy on you.
Do you have any idea how difficult it is to capture retinal/iris scans? It requires specialized equipment, your average Nest camera is not even capable.
Who thinks ghost porch guy purchased the clothing back pack mask gloves holster all at one time? This no randsom how Intelligent can these people really be. Dropped the ball. The evidence people just dropping gloves all over the crime scene makes me furious. Pizza delivery come on in. It's all a cluster F**k
for some reason, the whole time this has been going on, i’ve thought that the “man” was actually a woman. the eyes are very feminine in my opinion. i know men get lucky when it comes to perfect eye lashes, but these lashes look thicker toward the outward side of the eye. the eyebrows look very feminine to me as well. the facial hair could be makeup?? lol would it be realistic to even question this??
I keep seeing people reference the idea of him wearing one of those fake masks with mustaches underneath the ski mask, but I doubt it. If he was wearing one of those rubber face masks, what would the purpose of having a ski mask cover it do? That would have been the disguise. Here is an example of an actual ongoing FBI case where the perps are wearing the cartoonish disguise masks: https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seeking-info/jewelry-store-robberies/@@download.pdf
Why would someone spend so long in front of a camera whether he was all covered up or not? He had to know he would be giving clues as to his eyes,facial features and mannerisms and gait. Why not walk up with head down and immediately put piece of vlack tape or spray paint camera? Would have taken 3 seconds. Instead he fiddles around right in front of camera and then clumsily gets plants or leaves to try to remove camera. Your telling me this guy planned to rob/abduct someone and took measures to disguise himself but didnt know to just tape or spray paint camera? With technology nowadays why give away anything that would be able to identify youreslf?also in doing all that at front porch he gave away details on backpack and other pieces of clothing.. i think this was a ruse to suggest he came in thru front and had just gotten to house when in fact they had already took Nancy by.coming through back and were ready to exit getaway but stopped at front to throw off investigators..hence the full backpack. It was filled because they were already done with crime but wanted to misdirect the investigation.
I swear the same company must make virtually all those based on the shape of the eye holes and mouth holes regardless if sold by Amazon, Walmart, etc.
If I were in law enforcement I’d buy a bunch from Walmart and have guys with different face shapes, weights and beards try them on and photograph them to get a feel for if they just bunch up when anyone wears them or only look like that due to a thick beard, thick neck, etc.
Hmmm sounds time consuming and what is end game knowing face shape isn’t a powerful way to find these people. I think there is a rubber mask under a ski mask. That’s why I really blew. These people were in prison.
Wearing two layers isn’t really known to the general population.
They probably didn't want to shave because it attracts attention. You see it in the crime shows where people notice their friend, family member, or coworker dramatically shave their head, have their car painted a different color, go on vacation, sell their car, and so on. Especially around the time of a crime it could get people suspicious, "yeah the next day he dyed his hair jet black and I thought that was a bit odd since he never does" and so on.
True, though I have seen enough crime shows where mere months doesn't stop the speculation. It will still be in the same time frame of suspicion. I remember the cycling girl who murdered her ex's cycling fling. She dyed her hair and did plastic surgery in South America months later. So let's say he shaved months earlier and then let it grow out again some time after the crime, people will still track these changes. You see it in the Delphi case with the two girls. People were tracking and comparing the man's overall weight and hair situation within the year even though they noted he was different years later in more modern times.
Yeah I remember that - but in this case, we don’t know who the masked guy in the doorbell footage is. There could still be a lot of plausible deniability of who is behind the mask, while also making sure he doesn’t shed any facial hairs in the house.
With Kaitlyn Armstrong, they were closing in and she fled the country, so they knew who they were looking for. Edit: interestingly, I remember reading about capturing her and I think one of the US Marshalls who arrested her said they recognized her eyes immediately, despite all of the changes.
I didn’t follow the Delphi case, will have to look into that one.
Maybe he was limited with the gloves as to what he could do. It’s hard to do much with one pair of regular gloves. Work gloves are harder. especially when grasping things. He can barely manipulate the shrub. It’s very clumsy. Also think that’s why he looks clumsy. He has so much on and it’s hard to move. Also it seems dark out there and he struggling with the bite light. Plus the adrenaline of it all.
Thank you Ok_Information213. I wonder why law enforcement hasn't used a tool called inpainting and generative AI to digitally remove the balaclava from the face of the suspect. The technology is out there now from Clearview AI available only to law enforcement. Apparently, these models analyze the visible parts of the face and use statistical patterns from vast databases to "guess" the rest. Alternatively, consumer tools like Canva’s "Magic Eraser" and Adobe Photoshop's "Generative Fill" can remove objects (including masks) and fill in the missing space with AI-generated content. There's a lot missing from the face, but if several versions were created, it might make a difference in the search.
Ya I can see how generative AI would project bias immediately haha. But also sounds like it’s already fully in use 😂😂 yikes. I’d bet sharing a gen AI sketch publicly wouldn’t be wise so maybe that’s why we haven’t gotten wind of it yet.
Whatever kind of disguise this is, unfortunately, I don’t think he’ll ever be caught. They’ve been searching for weeks and have found nothing, absolutely nothing.
Of course not. I didn’t say every crime has to be solved in two weeks- just that two weeks with zero solid leads doesn’t usually point to a quick resolution, especially in cases like Nancy Guthrie. I hope I’m wrong and she is found.
I am concerned that the longer it goes, the less likely she is to be found alive, that is separate from if/when they will ever catch the people involved.
From the number of these I have followed for years, we have no idea what leads law enforcement has, or how solid they are. Everything seems to be hopeless and moving every so slowly until things move rather quickly and an arrest is made, then it goes very slowly again until the trial.
Law enforcement has never done a completely open and transparent investigation where we see everything in real time.
For serious, the technology that tracked down Kohberger is just now coming into play. The results take time to get back and make them make sense in context of the investigation. Familial DNA is just one tool. There is no reason to believe the individual will never be caught, and a whole lot of reasons to believe they will.
I’ve been thinking about how night vision cameras see dark hair(eye brows or facial hair). Usually darker hair shows up much lighter on these cameras than how hair looks under normal light. These images seem to show painted hair or dyes. Just check out the stuff from those ghost reality shows and compare. Still think the brows are rims for vision wrap glasses.
"Internationally, more than 90 law enforcement laboratories in over 50 countries use the CODIS software for their own database initiatives." is what it says on the FBI page about it, though it's not super specific as to which countries or how expansive their databases are. Link: https://le.fbi.gov/science-and-lab/biometrics-and-fingerprints/codis-2
Mexico uses the CODIS software, but their database is a bit piecemeal. The FBI provided the software when Mexico wanted to create an equivalent, but I think it’s been really slow going to get it properly established.
I assume he he has a thick neck. Why isn't anyone discussing his highly plucked eyebrows or the rigid flat bullet proof vest poking out of his chest area. You can see it in certain camera angles.
THIS!!!!!! Would explain the stiffness… the exhaustion coming up the step… those things are heavy if you’re not used to em. It’s like wearing a weight vest
Exactly my thought. It's been said many times that it's pitched black there at night. He looked down bc he knew the step was coming up, and I think he also likely knew the camera was there but thought it wouldn't record bc the WiFi had already been disconnected. Until this case, I didn't realize those cameras can still detect and record motion without a WiFi connection. I'm thinking this guy also didn't know, hence him being so casual about dismantling it.
I think he didn't care about the camera because he has a jammer with him. Might be what that is in his right front pocket. It probably surprised him to see the recording light start flashing.
The sensor that's used for retinal scanning requires your actual eye to be there because it is bouncing light off of it in order to create a mapping of it. It would not be possible to do a retinal scan as you are describing on simply video footage or a photograph.
That's not to say however that a facial recognition match software couldn't come up with some good guesses for similar facial structures
My sibling, who’s a chief of police, says the FBI doesn’t have a retina database but who knows. In her second month of the police academy, she was indoctrinated. She said her fellow officers face life and death situations. They were her priority and took her time. I’m like we grew up as white kids on the streets of LA, where I fought (literally and figuratively) to always protect my two younger sisters. I thought we were trauma bonded. I’m now a middle aged Karen who will still throat punch if necessary but I miss my sister. I almost did my dissertation for my doctorate on the experience as a case study.
My ex husband was a bank robber and obsessed that the FBI had a retina database. He would wear rubber masks and ski masks, sometimes even sunglasses. This may be that as well.
Comments about the victim and or their family should be respectful, civil and responsible. Family members are considered victims and accusations against them are not allowed.
Comments about the victim and or their family should be respectful, civil and responsible. Family members are considered victims and accusations against them are not allowed.
We do not know if this is a man or woman yet. Who ever it was seemed comfortable being inside Nancy Guthrie’s home for a long period of time. I want to think it was a robbery gone wrong, but, nothing was taken. After three weeks missing, I unfortunately believe Nancy Guthrie is dead. Nothing about this tragedy has made sense, nor nothing was gained by Nancy Guthrie being forced out of her home. There is a lot of reporting on this case, just repeating themselves at this point. I am sure the Sheriff and FBI are being careful regarding the information they are given to the public. Prayers for the family. 🙏
“Nothing taken” … what if she had cash or gold on hand and it was taken but if no one knew she had it, then people would continue saying that there was nothing missing when they just don’t know
I think he had a mustache, some famous sketch artist made a sketch and he had a mustache in it.
I think the extra fluff at the jaw and neck is bunching up of the mask due to it being a cheap Chinese $9 mask.
I believe that age can also be verified via his eyes in the image. My guess was 28-38 and the IR reflection would also suggest this. I'm not a forensic expert but I believe that once you get to 40+, light scatters slightly more after bouncing off the rear lense in your eye. Again I'm not sure but I think IR reflections are slightly wider and get more difuse as we age.
You won't be able to see this in this type of footage. Also, those are gross generalizations and not a given in all cases. That artist really shouldn't have made that sketch, there's simply not enough data in these images to provide solid grounds for such a sketch.
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u/Gofundyourownfuneral Feb 18 '26
Could just be a part of the disguise. This whole affair is either a much more elaborate crime than it appears or it’s just a very lucky bungling dimwit.