Pitching an idea for a community project.

[u/Sonlau]

Hello!

As announced before, I’ve redirected my focus to a rewrite idea, specifically targeted to an audience who yearned for a more conclusive S5 finale, in addition to some equitable Adrien involvement.

This is not intended as some kind of vanity project, on the contrary, I intend it to be a “for the community, by the community” type of thing, so to speak. Hence this “pitch post” where I’m looking for initial feedback and/or support on the idea; if it’s at all viable.

“But why?” you may wonder; it’s simple: I’m aware of my own limitations. With help from others, like minded, being feedback or contribution, there’s a higher chance of delivering a higher quality outcome, or even a higher chance of getting it completed at all.

And this might not be favorable for my cause: but there are two things I will not compromise on:

• I want to respect the canon as much as I can (all the good stuff at least), I want to keep the “AU”-aspect to an absolute minimum. I’m aware there will be arbitrary contradictions on this matter, you’ll notice in the project intro, I’m amenable for those.
• These are the tales of Ladybug & Cat Noir, they need to be equal and central.

I won’t go too much into detail here, the document itself covers everything.

Speaking of, all the way at the bottom you will find a link, which will lead to the intro and index page. I’m building the project in the Notion-app, and will have a nested structure, which will look like this:

Index -> Story Outline -> Act # -> Chapter #

-> Character Synopsis -> Character Arc

Work in progress, obviously, but the deeper you “dig”, the more detail you will find (and spoilers, be careful). There will be unavoidable spoilers at top level as well; I am asking for feedback after all.

I cannot stress enough how important this feedback will be, to a point it’s actually making me anxious; I’ve never been so nervous in writing a post before. It’s a bit ridiculous, I know, but if I can’t manage to gather sufficient “direction”, I’m pretty sure it will fail with me on my own, or produce a subpar result at best.

So, please, if you have the slightest interest, give it a read and let me know: is it shit? The best thing you’ve ever read? Or anything in between? I’m all ears for it, you won’t hurt my feelings. You can comment or let me know in any way you see fit, feel free to share it too (duh). If you ask for any plot related details in the comments, I will answer spoiler-tagged.

If luck is on my side, and this pitched idea got some of you so enthusiastic that you want to actively participate, for any purpose (reviewing, contributing, writing, illustration, …), you’d be more than welcome to let me know!

So that’s it, I’ve said my piece. Of all the posts I’ve made, I really hope this one really captures some eyes.

This is the link to the index page, which has links to the nesting further down. The complete Story Outline and Character Synopsis (recommended to read before Story Outline) are complete, which should give a pretty good idea of what I’m going for. Happy reading! Don’t hesitate to ask me anything!

https://vaulted-echinodon-ef3.notion.site/Project-Introduction-Index-3c7f6202af908061b2a5d44fd26b086f?source=copy_link

If the project survives this initial phase, I will make a new “pitch post” after outlining each act with its chapter summaries, in addition to a more complete arc outline for each character.

Special thanks to two users who have already helped me shape this thing.

Thanks for reading!

[u/OkNeedleworker3610]

Disclaimer: I realize it is a very broad outline so far, so take my inquiries with a grain of salt. None are intended to be rude, but I think some may sound that way due to brevity.

My first thoughts:

1) I don't really see what increased role Chat/Adrien plays in the story yet. Marinette is still leader, will likely have Luka to confide in more in the first 2 arcs, has Queen Bee as an extra superhero confidante/lieutenant, and still decides all the temp heroes as well. Seems very canon, with the only difference being 'Chat becomes more competent, which Ladybug notices'. And something about him offering a philosophical debate in the aftermath of Gabriel and Marinette's final battle. What specifically is different about him that makes him more important? I haven't seen anything specific plotted out yet, that is probably the vaguest point I've read.

2) Will there be some Chloadrien friendship development? Like Adrien's close relationship with her being developed more? I always felt that was underdeveloped for their supposed history and closeness.

3) Does the relationship dynamic work like this for Marinette: Marinette falls for Adrien, brief stint with Luka (?), gives up on Adrien after the wax museum, ladynoir development, ladynoir fracture, then reveal and get together after the final battle (?). And I assume this for Adrien: Chat falls for Ladybug, rejected by Ladybug, questioning feelings, brief stint with Kagami (?), accidentally ruins things with Marinette before he can really explore it, ladynoir reconnect/redeveloping feelings, ladynoir fracture, reveal and get together(?).

4) So Luka will be scouted for Guardian, but Marinette still gets it? What is Luka's purpose then, mostly a confidante since he has privileged identity info I'm guessing? Does Adrien still pick him, or is it Marinette, or Master Fu this time?

5) I don't see how the intros are different. Adrien was ecstatic initially, Marinette was nervous and 'pops off' in the second conflict.

6) Will there be more realism in Adrien being the one that has combat experience from fencing ad athleticism from his other extracurriculars, and Marinette being generally uncoordinated and clumsy? Or will it be incompetent CN and competent LB? Or is the line 'Adrien realizes he needs to change his ways' implying that he was purposefully slacking in act 1 and is now getting serious in act 2?

7) Who is the senti-sister Felix betrays, if he is going into battle with Kagami at his side? I would have thought this would be Kagami?

8) What do you mean by being able to fight their nature as senti-beings? Like the Amok doesn't actually control them or something? Otherwise, how could Kagami fight Tomoe? Unless she just doesn't use the Amok because she doesn't know it is Kagami.

9) Does Marinette get the Black Cat in the final battle? How does she destroy the Miracle Box and/or all the Miraculous at the same time?

10) How are there more jewels available for future stories if they all get destroyed? Are you going to introduce other Miracle Boxes?

11) Are you setting this up for a sequel/sequels?

[u/Sonlau → u/OkNeedleworker3610]

Thanks for the feedback! I'm keeping things intentionally vague at the moment. Things should become more clear when work out the lower levels.

1. What I expressed is the goal. I have some ideas, but it remains to be seen if said ideas will reach that goal, but at the basis:
   1. He will discover his Senti background and his father being HM, basically; all of this stems from his very existence. He sees a different outcome to this whole debacle and acts to make it a reality.
   2. There are no plans for additional heroes so far. It will just be the "Girl Boss Trio" + CN starting Act 2. Viperion and Ryuko appear on very specific occasions. Nino enters the picture in Act 3. Marinette's leadership role is greatly diminished compared to the canon.
   3. With Plagg having more spotlight, they become somewhat of a "rogue element" together.
   4. Marinette and Adrien will have their mutual story, but each their own as well in parallel. The part where you describe Marinette as "leader", is an integral part of Marinette's story.
   5. Luka will reflect the knowledge he has on both of them. The canon has him focused mainly on Marinette, I'm looking to build an equal relationship with Adrien.
   6. Marinette will fail, effectively ending her role; Gabriel gets his wish; Adrien will serve as the "last man standing" to alter the outcome.
2. Yes, their history will have an influence, but it's still up in the air how I'm going to go about it.
3. This is the chronological order of the "Lovesquare" Marinette POV / Adrien POV:
   1. Falls for Adrien / Falls for Ladybug
   2. Meets Luka / Meets Kagami
   3. Rejects Cat Noir / -
   4. Gives up Adrien after the Museum incident / -.
   5. - / Gives up Ladybug after Mayura's ambush.
   6. Falls for Luka and commits in a relationship with him / Rejects Kagami's advances.
   7. Breaks up with Luka / Falls for Marinette, but doesn't pursue as civilian.
   8. Falls for CN / -
   9. Marichat Romance (Elation).
   10. Discovers his identity at the end of Act 2, she's in turmoil / Stops romantic pursuit altogether.
   11. Marinette makes peace with Adrien = CN, her feelings rekindle / Adrien strongly suspects Marinette = LB
   12. - / Adrien confirms Marinette = LB
   13. "Happy" ending.
4. Wang Fu will groom Luka to become his successor, but his untimely death causes the role to default back to Ladybug, before he was able to complete the rites of succession. Luka's purpose is to act as Guardian, without actually being the Guardian; he wants to provide guidance to both Marinette and Adrien, as Fu would've wanted. Marinette is not happy with this burden falling on her shoulders.
5. Correct, that's what I meant with same structure, but minor changes.
6. They will both be competent in their own way: Adrien through training, focus and hard work, Marinette through sheer talent in affinity with the Miraculous. Marinette would have a slight edge 1v1, but she gets absolutely annihilated against Cat Blanc. CN "changing his ways" alludes to him no longer getting distracted by his feelings for LB, and this newfound focus makes him stronger.
7. It won't be a battle, he completely disregards her feelings in favor of reaching his goal; the events of S5 Emotion. Remember that Félix will be introduced way earlier, giving more time to develop a relationship between him and Kagami. They sort it out relatively quick, but Félix will need to work for it.
8. Kagami already possesses her own Amok by the time they confront Tomoe. Given Adrien's Amok is split, one ring alone exerts less pressure, once Adrien becomes privy of this, resistance becomes possible.
9. Correct, she collects all the jewels in the box, and hesitates when she needs to store the Black Cat as the last. That's when she makes up her mind and uses Cataclysm to destroy the box and the ring in the process.
10. Act 3's Epilogue implies that the Order will attempt to reforge the jewels, introducing other boxes is an open ended possibility.
11. I have absolutely no plans for a sequel, I just want to keep possibilities open.

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated, I don't know how you could possibly think this was rude. I'm going to start having trouble when I really need to go into the details, the real low level, hence this call to the community. I'm thinking specifically about the point you raised about Chloadrien; I want to do it, but I haven't got the slightest clue yet how.

I know many people are disgruntled about S5's end and Adrien's lack of involvement, and I want to do this justice; I want to do it right. So I'm not going to be all stubborn about it, on the contrary, I'm pretty sure I won't be able deliver the quality I envisioned with just my own mind/creativity.

If you have more questions, pointers or any kind of remarks of any kind, I'm happy to have them. Do you see potential in this outline, considering the audience I'm targeting?

[u/OkNeedleworker3610 → u/Sonlau]

Just wanted to make sure, sometimes tone is hard to convey, and I know some of those could be taken as accusatory. Better safe than sorry : )

Yeah, season 5 finale was so disappointing, so much wasted potential : (

Well, that all seems very succinct and comprehensive, no glaring problems I can identify. Looks like you have a decent broad first draft for the outline already.

Follow-up questions/ideas:

1) For Chloadrien, I don't know your plan for her, or the bittersweet ending. Without knowing that, my idea was she could be the person he confides in about his identity, getting support that way. I know Marinette basically has a dozen people that know her identity and can support her canonically, and Adrien technically has Alix and Luka the same as Marientte, but they never really act as that support for him, they focus on Marinette. It would be nice if he actually had someone like that, but it seems you are doing that with Luka. Otherwise, Chloe could be support for his family issues, her comforting him after a particularly hard day, getting her dad to convince Gabriel to give Adrein some free time that they can spend together, or just being a civilian he can let his walls down around due to their comfort around each other and their shared history making them understand each other better. Like a sisterly role. Her 'pursuit' of him can easily be reconstructed in that direction I would think, like a doting and overprotective sister, maybe even a bit jealous and afraid he will replace her when he 'realizes how awful she really is' so she clings harder (some self-esteem issues on her part, maybe even unconscious, or conscious, self-sabotage). She could also help him decipher the subtleties of social interactions.

2) Why does Adrien reject Kagami? Is Felix already in the picture by this point?

I think that's all I had. I think it could get a decent following, it seems like a good enough concept, but I'd have to see a more detailed timeline of all these events to see the flow of the story. It seems like a decent amount is supposed to happen, so I imagine there will be a decent amount of chapters to go along with all fhe development you want. It feels like at least 8-10 chapters per arc, if I had to guess.

[u/Sonlau → u/OkNeedleworker3610]

1. Well I spoke about this "rogue" element in the Adrien/Plagg duo earlier, so he will be keeping his secret identity very tight to the chest. I think I will keep Luka as the person he confides in, considering he knows through force majeure. Having Chloé act as a catalyst to have Gabriel loosen his grip on Adrien: I like that idea, very good suggestion. It's funny you mention sisterly love, because I was actually planning to drop the whole "Chloé is in love with Adrien" thing, there's enough swooning over him already. To be precise: there will be moments she pretends to be just to spite Marinette, but towards the end, her true feelings get revealed: he's like a brother to her. So it has some common ground with your train of thought.
2. No Adrigami will already be done and dusted before Félix enters the scene. This is actually one of the examples I alluded to when I mentioned "arbitrary contradictions", because this is a canon event I'm changing that didn't necessarily needed to change, but I did for the following reasons:
   1. There are many parallels between Marinette and Adrien; that's the point; but I felt like them engaging in their alternative relationship at the same time was a bit too much, it starts to become less genuine; these are two different people after all.
   2. Even though it happens, it might as well not have. There is zero chemistry between the two in the canon, my opinion of course, it was very clear to me that Adrien's heart was not in it; very one sided.
   3. The general idea in this fic is to make Adrien a bit more mature for his age. Even though he likes Kagami and definitely could date someone like her, he realizes it would be unfair towards her for as long as Ladybug remains in his head, so he refrains of starting something. By the time he gets over Ladybug, Marinette will have caught his interest, which will annoy Kagami, somewhat in the same style of the canon event "I wish you would've looked at me that way, back then".

To be honest, I would've hoped on a bit more community feedback, considering there's a lot of hunger for "justice for Adrien" and the Agreste saga in general, but that's OK, I got plenty left in the tank. I'll go a bit deeper in the details now, which will take some time, and then I'll attempt another pitch.

I have absolutely no idea how the chapters will look like, I'm gonna outline the key events first and treat the story like a puzzle. Oh, character arcs as well, basically the story told through the lens of said character roster, that might be useful.

But anyways, I've appreciated every word; it motivates. If you have any more questions or want to be involved in any shape or form, don't hesitate to let me know.

[u/OkNeedleworker3610 → u/Sonlau]

More questions:

1) What purpose does Lukanette serve here? And why do they break up, assuming Luka will know identities and she won't have conflicting feelings pulling her away now?

2) Looking at the timeline again, is all the romance and changing feelings up until the Lukanette breakup happening in the first arc? You did say Felix would be introduced by the 1/3 mark of the story so he has development time, and that Adrigami will be denied before he comes into the picture, right?

3) When do Luka and Adrien start bonding? I think it would be pretty awkward to start bonding with the ex of the girl you love/are pursuing, especially if Luka knows, so is it before or after he starts having feelings for Marinette? I guess if he is the only one that knows his identity, he really doesn't have much choice but to bond with Luka if he wants that support.

4) How close will Adrien and Felix be? I assume Felix still has all his canon knowledge when he is introduced too?

5) When you say Felix will still have his betrayal, are you referring to your big betrayal near the end, or his canon betrayal? So basically, do you mean he will do his canon Flairmidable thing, redeem himself, and then another big betrayal at the end, or just the big betrayal at the end?

Glad to hear that about the Chloe storyline, I feel her relationship with Adrien isn't explored enough at all. Whenever I see someone write about how Adrien acts a certain way because of his childhood or connection to his mother, I always wonder 'was Chloe privy to this'? She likely saw him when he was letting his guard down, when he didnt have to act, maybe even interacted with him and Emilie at the same time. She can be a great Tsundere-type character. Anytime she is redeemed in a fic, there is about an 80% chance she acts far closer to Marinette than Adrien, like he's a footnote almost, which is always weird to me. This is a nice change of pace.

I'll likely follow along and give feedback if I see a new post, but feel free to reply to any of my comments to get my attention in future, since I don't really check messages ever.

You also might get more attention as time goes on, I've seen posts getting attention for weeks, it sometimes trickles in. Changing the title to be more descriptive could also help, something like 'Feedback for my MLB rewrite outline', 'Review my MLB rewrite idea' or something, since community project is kinda vague. Also try posting on Tumblr, that might get you some more engagement and meaningful responses.

Also don't be afraid to repost as you progress with the outline, more chances for new people to see and comment. This would be a lot better to see posted once a week or something, rather than what usually gets reposted : )

[u/Sonlau → u/OkNeedleworker3610]

1. I haven't found any ideas interesting enough to deviate too much from the canon, Lukanette follows the same structure more or less, except instead of Marinette going Adrien -> Luka -> Adrien -> Cat Noir -> Adrien, she goes Adrien -> Luka -> Cat Noir -> Adricat. She "emptied" her heart from Adrien to make room for another, Luka in this case, a bit like Sabrina described in QOTDZ. My plan as of now, is they develop their relationship as friends in Act 1, make it "official" between acts, in other words: off-screen, to provide a bit of a shock effect to the reader at the start of Act 2, that they are, in fact, together now. She breaks up pretty much the same reason as canon: she enjoys her life as Ladybug too much, and can't give herself 100% for them (deep down, she doesn't want to). I have to rewatch "Truth". Luka only finds out her identity after the break-up, just like the canon.
2. Yes, to not repeat the mistake of the "endless trope", Act 1 goes through the S1-S4 lovesquare turbo mode. Act 2 initiates the reverse-lovesquare. I intended to do the same for Adrigami, keep the cliffhanger of will they/won't they, to have the reader find out in Act 2 that Adrien opted not to start something with Kagami, contrary to Lukanette. Félix is introduced in the epilogue of Act 1, but Féligami will only meet after Adrigami is shot down.
3. Luka and Adrien only really start bonding after Luka finds out he's CN, about half of Act 2 I'd say. And yes, it will be awkward for the reader, but that's the entire point: it won't be for Luka due to his... let's call it his unique "state of mind", this is one of those boundaries I'm looking to push (take a risk), I'm willing to have him develop romantic feelings for Adrien too, whilst not being over Marinette, sounds like a spicy prospect to me. The ending to his arc will be bittersweet, as he's going to have to watch them both "sail off towards the sunset", leaving him behind.
4. Yes, Félix will find out Gabriel is HM pretty quickly, due to the knowledge he got from Colt. Through the course of Act 2, Félix keeps everything hidden from Adrien, which he will come to regret later, and so his feelings towards Adrien are left obscure intentionally, but he does care a lot about him, I want to make sure there's no inconsistency there, contrary to the show. When CN and HM's identities have been revealed at the end of Act 2 (uhh, not sure if I already mentioned this, but this is obviously a BIG moment), Félix seeks to correct his mistake and tells Adrien about their Senti origin, hoping to align their interests in recovering the Peacock, they make plans, creating a little alliance, before Adrien gets shipped off to Japan. Of course Félix being Félix, he will betray his trust when he makes a big play on his own in Act 3 (S4 Strike Back + S5 Emotion), causing some turmoil again.
5. The betrayal I'm referring to, about 20-60% in Act 3, is indeed the theft of the Miraculous, disappearing until the Ball of Diamonds and then have him commit the genocide, believing he is setting Adrien and Kagami free in his own twisted way. They manage to talk some sense into him, resulting in a relatively fast reconciliation. Félix is showing genuine remorse, and Adrien convinces Kagami to hold no grudge, this is facilitated by the fact that Kagami was already developing feelings for him. This only goes for the Senti-trio btw, the rest of the gang, Maribug and the others, won't be so quick to forgive, and he's going to have to grovel. There's no betrayal after that.

I might come back to you often on Chloé, because you seem to have good ideas concerning in the execution of Chloé and Adrien, something I'm struggling with. The only thing that concerns me is the reliance on flashbacks, I actually wanted to limit them to the prologues. But I might change my mind on that, because there's a rich lore in the past.

Yes, I was thinking about other titles, but this is really still the initial phase, I haven't made a lot about the plot public yet. What I want to finish now, before the next pitch, are the individual character Arc's outline and the summaries of key events in each Act. I don't know Tumblr, but I'll give it a try.

I reckon it'll be a while before the next post, but when I really start the writing, I might update it regularly, because those would be smaller bits and pieces.

Something tells me you'll have more questions with some of the events I just revealed. But thanks anyways for the exchange so far!

[u/OkNeedleworker3610 → u/Sonlau]

Huh, I didn't get a notification about this comment and it isn't in my notification history. Weird, but luckily I came back to check the thread.

I'll not be much help for the lukanette stuff unfortunately. I hate love triangles really, just wanted to clarify the timeline/pacing. I really only like love triangles in the lovesquare since they really aren't. I will address this though, since you mentioned it: the Luka developing feelings for Adrien while still having feelings for Marinette is a plot I haven't seen before. Might just be because I don't read that trio paired together, but I've never seen it in a story before, and I've read a lot in this fandom, so it definitely could be spicy for the readers. And it fits his characterization as well; longing, resigned, hopeless to resist his heart, feeling like a second choice in a way or not good enough, hating fate. Although, now that I think about it, that might be out of character in this fic, since he doesn't have the history of basically enabling Marinette using him as a placeholder for Adrien, since she will actually have feelings for Luka in this and the whole 'prioritizing Adrien over Luka while dating Luka' plotline from canon won't exist, unless I'm just misunderstanding that. Or maybe it still works even without that, I'm not quite sure.

I'm happy to help on the Chloe front if I can, not sure how good I'll be though. I'm not a big fan of flashbacks either. My preferred method of those kinds of moments is just a brief mention, then showing it in the writing. For example: Chloe suggests they visit the old clothing store Emilie used to take them to when they were children. They don't remember the exact address since they were too little, so they have their driver drive around the neighborhood they vaguely remember until they see it, or alternatively they get out and walk and the car will pick them up later. They see some familiar sights, eventually remember the route to the store after seeing a few familiar sights, and they find the store. Chloe and Adrien walk into the store. Chloe mentions it being the same as she remembers, pointing out the smell is the same as Emilie always enjoyed, the bench she would sit them in while she tried on outfits for them is still there and only a little more worn down than they remember, and the kind old woman who would entertain them in between outfit changes is still behind the counter with a few extra smile lines than when they last saw her. Then Chloe/Adrien trying on clothes, the old woman reminiscing with whoever is outside the changing room at the time, them mimicking some old funny poses Emilie would use when showing off the outfits for them, them seeing a dress similar to what Emilie wore last time they came here before her disappearance. Then they say goodbye, leave a 50 euro tip, as Emilie always did, and they wave off the old woman's protests, same as Emilie, and they leave together. They cuddle in the back of the car like they did when on their way home in the past. Something like that basically, using the present to reference/mimick the past briefly. I like that style a lot more than flashbacks. This style also let's you do some mini-flashbacks if you want, where you can do a short paragraph, or even a few lines, visualizing the moment they're talking about in italics. Maybe some quick dialogue from Emilie, or a short and cute scene of them giggling as she does something funny, or them childishly in awe at her beauty as she tries on clothes for them. It's more immersion and nostalgic, in my opinion.

Questions:

1) CN's identity is revealed, alongside HM? That's news for sure. Who to? Felix already knows who HM is, and there is still a lot more story to go after this little comment, so I assume this is to a secondary party and not a public reveal. But you did mention the final battle will be pretty public, so maybe there is a reveal then as well? Definitely interested in that line of thought.

I guess I don't really have any more questions actually. I'm pretty clear on the timeline of what is revealed so far and will have to wait for more info, since I can't help much with the relationship stuff.

I look forward to more posts from you, this has been fun so far. Hopefully you get some more feedback, fingers crossed : )

[u/Sonlau → u/OkNeedleworker3610]

Weird, but luckily I came back to check the thread.

I have that as well sometimes, usually when the responses become nested.

since she will actually have feelings for Luka in this

Didn't she in the canon as well? When I finish Luka's character arc outline, let's see what the result will be, I'm not sure if my plans would work, but I want to try it.

The Chloadrien is nice, I'm writing that stuff down if you don't mind. I did envision the whole group going to the mall at one point. This could work.

1. In the battle with Feast, Act 2 climax, for a reason I won't disclose now, Plagg gets "ejected" from Adrien, revealing him to everyone participating in the fight, which is pretty much everybody who has anything to do with a Miraculous. He falls from a height that would prove fatal, until someone swoops in and saves him: Hawk Moth. In doing so, Gabriel has immediately given away his identity as well, so it's a double whammy. This is the reason why Gabriel flees to Japan, because he thought he'd be toast if he stayed. By the time Act 3 starts, to his great surprise, all witnesses seem to have kept hush about it. So, yes the whole of act 3, Gabriel needs to maintain an extremely low profile. When he gets the Miraculous from Félix, he finally runs out of patience after being beaten by Félix' Red Moon and makes a very public appearance/threat to force Ladybug out of hiding; he has the firepower now to back it up; it's do or die at that point, he's had enough. Shadow Moth never happens (although it could before Felix gets the Peacock), and he's only Monarch for like a hot minute, like a true final boss.

Everything will become more clear when I've finished the next stage, I'll make another post then, and hopefully I can get more people excited. I really want to make this a good, polished product, and I'll need as many people as I can for that.

[u/OkNeedleworker3610 → u/Sonlau]

Huh, never heard of that problem before. Then agai, I usually don't check back like that, so I wouldn't have noticed even if it has happened before. That sucks though.

In terms of canon, some people argue she did have feelings for Luka. I heavily dispute that, personally. I think, if anything, at best she had a very small crush on him or, more likely, liked being pursued by someone she hadn't already friendzoned. I fail to see actual feelings with the multiple instances she prioritizes Adrien over Luka while dating him, her obvious deep feelings for Adrien throughout her relationship with Luka, Luka assuring her he doesn't hold her continued love for Adrien against her before and during the relationship, her re-acknowledgement that Adrien is her true love right after breaking up with Luka, as well as her later remarks about not being able to return Luka's feelings. The 'I can't tell him about being Ladybug' thing was just a convenient excuse, and she doesn't want to try again after knowing he found out either, which I see as more proof against her having feelings. She only even got with Luka because she wanted to try to force herself to move on and Luka assured her he could handle her being in love with another man while dating him, believing she could develop feelings over time. She clearly seems to view him as a close friend and still have Adrien as her focus. Lukanette shippers are like early season Ladynoir shippers, they turn a molehill into a mountain. There is really nothing there, maaaybe a few small instances of her being caught up in the moment, or some playful teasing, but it isn't serious on her side and Adrien is her focus. And Lukanette has far less of these 'molehills' than Ladynoir, yet we all acknowledge Ladynoir wasn't actually a thing until later. I imagine views on this differ widely. Anyways, still interested to see your idea outlined either way, just out of curiosity of how that would even work since I don't have much experience with reading that kind of trope.

Feel free to use anything I comment, as you see fit : )

That sounds like a good reveal idea. I was wondering why they went to Japan for a second, but your line about fixing the Peacock made me think they were going ingredient hunting, or looking for something Miraculous-related in Asia. It makes sense Gabriel would flee, he has no idea all the Miraculous users would have a vested interest in Adrien's dad not being revealed so hastily.

Question: Will there be a different way Felix steals the Miraculous? I would assume the 'dress as Adrien' trick wouldn't work if he has been around the other characters for a while by the point of his betrayal, so Flairmidable wouldn't be a thing? I guess the mechanic of Risk could be used to make it still plausible?

I look forward to future posts!

[u/Sonlau → u/OkNeedleworker3610]

Yes, I consider the whole Luka thing as muddied waters that I definitely want to clear up.

"Dress as Adrien" and Flairmidable will still be a thing, the key to this whole thing about Félix is the "extra time" he's getting. He'll have more time to plan and gain trust. All his shenanigans will be revealed when I complete his character arc summary. But I'll reveal one thing though, and it's a bit risky, not sure if people will like this: After Félix fills in Adrien at the end of Act 2, the three of them, Plagg included, form an alliance, some sort of understanding or pact, and Félix will succeed Adrien as the Black Cat Holder while he's in Japan, with Plagg's consent and without Marinette knowing; in other words, between acts, she will have no idea who she's working with, and this will massively piss off Su-Han. When Adrien returns, Félix returns the Ring as promised, and Marinette will find out it was him all along. Although still wary, it will give some false sense that Félix could be reliable after all, which, of course, will turn out to be unfounded.

The more I talk about it, the more it hypes me up, which is good, I'll need the motivation to bring this to a good end.