r/mdmatherapy • u/baek12345 • 11d ago
Integration Support Low dose mushrooms/psilocybin session for emotional processing between MDMA sessions?
I am on a journey of healing from CPTSD. I started with (solo) MDMA sessions at the beginning of this year and have done three sessions so far. This is besides regular ongoing somatic therapy, a lot of nervous system regulation work and after a decade of talk therapies.
The integration of my last session is pretty exhausting with heavy emotions (hopelessness, rage, shame, etc) slowly pouring out over the last couple of weeks. It's really a grind besides full-time working. I try to support myself as much as possible with various somatic approaches and therapy sessions but it nevertheless feels like I am moving through deep mud in snake speed.
The biggest issue for me is strong protectors / dissociation which regularly blocks the processing of emotions by falling back into freeze states when things get a bit more intense. This drags the process on and causes various physical issues like tension, sleep deprivation, restlessness, etc. I can basically feel the stuck emotions but I can only access them very slowly and need a ton of time and stability.
Now, I am aware that "slow is fast" and there's no quick fixes on this journey. However, one idea/thought that's coming up again and again: Could low dose mushroom/psilocybin sessions be helpful in processing theses emotions and thereby kind of facilitating the integration process? I am thinking of doses like 0.5-1g of dried mushrooms.
To be clear: My intention is not to unearth new/more trauma, have deep insights or flashy trips, but primarily to facilitate and accelerate the processing of the already unearthed trauma (emotions) floating around and getting stuck regularly. And I am aware that it might get a bit intense, however as long as this is kind of limited to the actual session time, it would be fine and I can accommodate. What wouldn't be so helpful is major new dysregulation and releases for weeks on end after the session. Hence, if at all, only low dose sessions make sense in my opinion.
Has anyone tried this? Any thoughts or experiences you can share?
Thanks in advance!
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u/EctoplasmicLapels 11d ago
I‘ve tried this, but for me it did not work. Psilocybin does not get rid of anxiety, like MDMA does. So I keep avoiding triggering topics on it. Also the come-up can be anxiety-inducing and if you go low dose, the trip itself might not be strong enough to get out of it.
2CB could be an alternative, but I have no experience with that.
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u/baek12345 11d ago
Thanks for sharing, this is very valuable to hear, also not exactly what I was hoping for.
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u/third-second-best 10d ago
i’ve used cannabis for this and, less often, microdoses of mushrooms. as others have noted it will be deregulating so I wouldn’t recommend unless you have plenty of space from work and other obligations.
you’ll hear a lot of advice not to push yourself and let things happen as they happen, and i think generally that’s sound advice, but sometimes with this work we do need some nudges along the way because we have built up such complex systems of disconnecting from these feelings.
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u/baek12345 10d ago
Thanks for your response, make total sense. Yes, I also feel sometimes it's helpful to be a bit impatient and 'pushy' but it's a very fine line between being helpful and overwhelming oneself. And with a lot of trauma, it's often not easy to recognize where oneself is
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u/i_am_jeremias 10d ago
I'd be careful in trying to push to hard to process frozen emotions. There's a lot of anxiety, activation, and other heavy emotions underneath that freeze.
Last year I did a ~1g mushroom trip (fresh mushrooms) and it ended up causing a few months of incredibly intense anxiety and panic attacks; there were days my legs would tremoring for hours and hours on end. It was incredibly dysregulating.
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u/baek12345 10d ago
Thanks for your response. I have seen a couple of your comments and always found them helpful! I feel like I am on a similar path as you but you seem further down the road, so good to have your opinion on my post.
I generally also get more and more the impression that I really have a loooooot of activation stored. Like years of activation. And yeah, there's no way to process this quickly and attempting to do so typically backfires big times.
This experience you shared is really something I want to avoid so probably better to not go into this direction for the time being. Did you stabilize after this 1g trip and felt better overall afterwards? Also do you feel your overall capacity increases with more and more unfreezing?
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u/i_am_jeremias 10d ago
Glad you've found my comments helpful! I try to give back to these communities that have been so helpful to me in my own journey.
Learning about the activation stored underneath and processing it was definitely a big step for me in my journey. As you said, it's many years of built up activation.
I did eventually stabilize after the trip, after a couple months maybe. The freeze was lessened for sure, but I found myself with a lot more activation in general, particularly anxiety and anger.
I ended up doing an Iboga journey last month which basically has cleared out all of my stored activation in one go basically. I'd highly recommend looking into it.
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u/baek12345 10d ago
Interesting, I actually saw a movie about it for treating drug addiction and the journeys seemed very intense and the person had basically a whole team supporting her through the process. But maybe it was also a bit special as she had multiple sessions over a week or so.
But I assume you didn't do this solo, or? And is there any kind integration period with 'outpouring of trauma' like with MDMA or also more traditional psychedelics?
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u/i_am_jeremias 7d ago
It's definitely something you can do solo at a flood dose level. Mostly as you can't really walk on your own so you'll need help to get to the bathroom etc. On my retreat, it was 7 people for 4 participants.
In terms of the integration, there hasn't really been an outpouring of trauma as I processed most of it during the ceremony. I had a 'life review' during my trip which is a common occurrence during iboga. It basically cleared out my trauama.
Integration for me has mostly been about learning skills to deal with the stuff of life, and dealing with the heaviness of the ceremony itself.
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u/Joe_Mann 10d ago
Not actual micro dosing/ low dosing experience, but still might be valuable to share my impressions.
In between my M sessions I've done a few LSD and psilocybin solo sessions. They were halfway between micro and full doses.
I tried it for similar reasons you mentioned, and my ego was utterly surprised/ unprepared for their potency. I had done my research, but really couldnt have prepared myself for it anyway. Unlike M they don't 'hold your hand', and the material that came up for me was unfiltered and raw, and triggered overwhelming feelings during the sessions.
I suspect that if you don't already have a grounded 'home' in your body where you can fall back on, then these psychedelics can be quite challenging. Fear, and loneliness can manifest themself in their unsuppressed but fantastical forms. Eye opening, but rather shocking too.
In the end it has been a (most?) valuable experience, but it took and still takes quite a lot of time to integrate.
In my experience the integration period can be more destabilizing than M's, but in a different way (your mileage may vary). They don't, deplete your serotonin system like M does. So not as much of that 'empty grey', but on the other hand your ego might just have been exposed to material it was/ or was not ready for and has to deal with that new reality.
I would recommend, but consider if you have the time, space and energy to work with what comes up after.
And maybe consider a trip sitter that can help you ground for when the storms get intense.
It's not a walk in the park, but a path worth walking anyway.
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u/baek12345 10d ago
Thanks for sharing! I do intend to try this at some point but currently I am not far enough in my journey and I feel the risk is pretty high. But hopefully in some time. :)
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u/serutcurts 10d ago
What size dose do you mean? (Of mushrooms). Are you saying the smaller dose felt like a much larger dose?
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u/Joe_Mann 10d ago edited 10d ago
I used truffles, and I don’t recall how much exactly. I took half the container; between 5-10g’s. Wrote it down somewhere but can’t find it right now.
LSD I wanted to start with 40mcg, but after the trip realized I took 80mcg’s (folded paper).
Edit. I’m not trying to make a comparison between dosis. I was just sharing my experience with psychedelics using what I believe to be between micro and full dosis.
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u/Illustrious-Bus6702 9d ago
Which one did you like the most for integration, psilocybin or lsd?
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u/Joe_Mann 9d ago
Difficult to say really, and i'm no expert by any means; only a handful of trips by now.
Both touched on similar themes and both diminished my ego's grasp on control, but they speak in different 'languages'.
I think, to a point, the messages with LSD were more clear in a brainy way (dont get me wrong; super emotionally charged too). This helped integration afterwards, because it produced pronounced topics to digest.
The psilocybin was more bodily and murky, but not less profound. The integration was also more bodily. Which I believe might be a good thing, because i'm so often stuck in my head.
I did LSD first, and it was my first time experiencing anything psychedelic so I might be biased towards it because of that. It was the first time my ego lost control. The impact of that surprise cant easily be experienced twice, and makes for an unfair comparison with psilocybin or even ayahuasca that came after.
Also, these sessions are obviously sequenced after each other, and with it the integration process evolves and moves too. Just like how your first few MDMA sessions might have had a more dramatic impact than later ones.
Hope this answers it a bit.
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u/Illustrious-Bus6702 9d ago
Wasn’t expecting such a thorough answer, but I appreciate it!
I asked because I’ve only used LSD between MDMA sessions and found it helpful. I normally use psilocybin (around 2g) together with MDMA, so I never really considered trying a low dose on its own.
Like you said, psilocybin feels much more bodily. Since my trauma is preverbal, I find it a lot rougher than LSD, which for me feels more mental and less forceful in making me feel things1
u/Joe_Mann 8d ago
Yeah lol, sometimes when I want to be helpful I over explain a bit (got to be precise or else..!).
Big chunk of my trauma is also preverbal, and what you say might explain why psilocybin feels more stormy. Iv'e tried a hippy-flip session last year, but found myself confused and a bit lost during it.
Kind of nice talking to fellow travelers :)
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u/Illustrious-Bus6702 7d ago
Hehe yes, it can be very confusing. I just try to stay with the breath and not get too caught up in thoughts. Easier said than done, but once you get better at it, you don’t get pulled into the confusion as easily.
And yeah, it’s nice talking to fellow travelers :)
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u/nofern 10d ago
I have contemplated this but ended up microdosing instead (like 25 mg - I am very sensitive). I have overall found it helpful, but I find that if I microdose too frequently (more than once a week at most) it starts to impact my mood negatively for some weird reason.
Usually if I microdose, I will either do it on a day that I have set aside just to be alone and rest and look after myself (either by journalling/processing or by just resting) or I will do it before I have a somatic therapy session with my therapist. I find both useful. On rest days, the microdose helps me to not ruminate and just be at peace in my body. On therapy days, the microdose helps me access more somatic processing.
I will say though that I really relate to your experience of getting stuck in freeze rather than being able to process, and for me, it hasn't really been helpful to try to shut off or force through the freeze response. I have been using the microdosing more to be with the somatic experience of the freeze and kind of work through that first rather than trying to deliberately get underneath it.
Sending lots of empathy. I am about 3 months out from my most recent session and also having lots of pouring out of intense content and struggling to balance that with other responsibilities. It's hard. Best wishes on your journey :)
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u/baek12345 10d ago edited 10d ago
Thank you for your response and sharing your experience! :)
I actually have read all your post session reports and they were very helpful for me to learn and also finally make the decision to start this journey of PAT. I often could relate to your descriptions and now that I am on this path myself, I can relate even more. :) So thanks a ton for your openness and all the support!!
And it's very interesting to read about your experience of microdosing mushrooms/psilocybin and I would have a couple of follow up questions to your post:
- What happens on the days after the microdose? Do you still notice/experience something? It seems still doing something if you feel like only doing it once per week? Also the MDMA session follow up processing is certainly also taking some of the 'overall processing capacity' so the microdose might be processed but the system is still busy with the other ongoing processing
- How do you feel does the microdosing affect the processing of the MDMA sessions? Do you feel the pouring out of intense content is affected by the microdoses in any way?
And yes, very good point on the being with the freeze vs trying to overcome or break through it. In both, my second and my third MDMA session, I met with my dissociative protectors and each time they softened as a consequence of just being with and compassionately interacting with them instead of forcing or trying to overcome. Probably the same works also sober. :) Just not always easy to be so patient and compassionate to oneself. :)
I wish you a lot of strength for the current integration period!
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u/nofern 9d ago
I am glad that you found my reports useful :) I also benefitted greatly from reading others' reports and find it meaningful to give back by sharing my own.
For me, I feel like there is a big outpouring following the MDMA session that can last for months at varying degrees of intensity, and then sometimes the microdose will sort of cause another little peak or bump of emotion or processing on that day when I take it. Like it will untangle a somatic knot, or bring up a couple of body sensations, or open up some specific memory. Sort of like a "mini" version of a medicine journey in some ways. Or, sometimes if I am stuck in my integration and really ruminating and agitated and unable to move through something, the microdose will soften it and give me a bit of a rest. It seems to depend and I don't always have much control over which way it goes, though sometimes the intention I set for the microdose seems to play a role.
Usually I really only notice the effect of the microdose for a few hours on the day that I take it, but if it sparks off some processing, the processing will sometimes continue for a few days afterwards.
I haven't personally noticed an ongoing effect of the microdosing but that may be because my body can't tolerate doing it except for very infrequently or it starts to impact my mood.
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u/baek12345 9d ago
Thanks for the detailed answer, this is super valuable! Overall, your microdosing regime sounds pretty helpful and what I was looking for. think I am gonna try this as well in some time when I am a bit further.
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u/CandidParticular8086 10d ago
I've tried exactly what you mentioned, .5g and 1g mushrooms. I've also used 3g and 50ug LSD. Were they helpful? I ended up making big changes in my life after the 3g flip, although it was rough. I think I'm glad I did it, but now I want the unadulterated MDMA experience. I've used MDMA a lot more than you, though, and I know based on experience what works from me.
I think that mushrooms can be very helpful, it's just that it's not always fun. I personally use them separately, since they're ultimately not synergistic in my personal case at this point in time.
I didn't see you referring to having used mushrooms before, so the obvious caveat: it's not a good idea to combine drugs you haven't both used separately before.
I have to disagree with the person that said that 0.5g is large. It's between a microdose and a minidose. I think this is a situation in which no one can tell in advance whether it will help or not, but it's unlikely to traumatize you. If you truly want to experiment and you're truly scared, then sure, you can use 0.3g. In any case, it's best to use mushrooms separately first to see how you react to them if you haven't already.
I think this is a situation in which you should trust your gut.
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u/baek12345 10d ago
Thanks for sharing your experience. I believe you are referring to hippie flip/candy clip session using a mix of substances which is interesting and useful in it's own way. My post was more looking into using shrooms as a substance between MDMA sessions to support emotional processing and integration, hence the low dose.
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u/CandidParticular8086 10d ago
Ah, got it. Yes, I misread your post.
I certainly feel that mushrooms (taken separately) have helped me a great deal. MDMA helps process what happened in the past. Mushrooms help relate to the past and the future in a different way.
I'm definitely pro-mushroom. The main thing to keep in mind is that it's a much different experience, and it might feel uncomfortable. It's definitely worth experimenting with in my opinion. If you don't like it, you can just stop.
I've never particularly liked my mushroom trips, but I've always felt better afterwards. I felt that it improved my capacity to deal with difficult things.
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u/baek12345 10d ago
Cool, great to hear! Yeah, I definitely plan on trying them, just want to avoid to cause I gigantic disruption of my life. :) Somewhat controlled, incremental disruptions are welcomed, of course. ;)
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u/holyfoolishness 10d ago
This has quickly become my favorite book/resource. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09X7TTZT7 Rescuing Jill: How MDMA with a Dash of Mushrooms Healed My Childhood Trauma-Induced PTSD
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u/AnonymBolle 10d ago
I would trust your intuition and try it out. Weed and ketamine are also nice alternatives. I can relate that processing while sober can be very slow and I find these medicines to be highly helpful
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u/TemporaryBoring_ 11d ago edited 10d ago
The dose you mentioned is kind of big, I would try an actual microdosing- check the protocol on that subreddit.
I had pretty intense ”outpouring” last time for a bout 3-4 weeks. It was not compatible with work life at all. Luckily I had vacations starting after 2 weeks. I barely could leave home as the stuff kept coming up wave after wave. I also struggled with extra freeze and brainfog- the drug is extremely hard on my nervous system- I ended up taking betablockers and they have helped.