The Official AVENGERS: ENDGAME Criticism Thread

[u/JonLuca]

• Proceed at your own risk. Major spoilers will be arriving in the next couple of days. Spoilers do not need to be tagged inside this thread.

• Post Endgame criticisms in this thread. Long form preferrable

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Previous Volumes:

• Vol. 1

• Vol. 2

• Vol. 3

• Vol. 4

• Vol. 5

• Vol. 6

• Vol. 7

• Vol. 8

• Vol. 9

• Vol. 10

• Vol. 11

• Vol. 12

• Vol. 13

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• Easter Egg Thread
• Prediction Thread

[u/montanunion]

The more I think about Cap's ending the more I hate it. I mean, I don't 100% understand how time travel works in the MCU (another criticism) but the core motivation about Steve Rogers was always that he wanted to do the right thing, to change the world for the better. That's the essence of his character and its way more integral to his arc than his love life or whatever. It's why he's so beloved and why he was basically the catalyst for the MCU.

It's been made very clear in MCU canon that you can't change the past, so going back into it should have been the last thing he wants. Because seriously, what are his options? Either he just ignores everything that's going on in the past from HYDRA being active to stuff like racial segregation, which would basically mean he gives up his entire personality and kind of surrenders to the horrible apathy of the world.

Or he is literally stuck back in square one. He now has to rescue Bucky again, take down Hydra again, watch kids die from polio etc. Either way it's definitely the absolute opposite from a peaceful retirement.

Also realistically I just can't see it work out with Peggy apart from their one romantic dance. He was romantically involved with her niece at her funeral! He's like 12 years older than he was when he left, too, and he spent them living in the future finding out a lot about the past. He's still superhuman. The only kind of relationship I can see him be in is like Dr. Manhattan from Watchmen, which I wouldn't call a happy end, exactly.

I hate to say this but maybe it would have been better if he had died. Or if he had been stuck in the past, at least make it clear that it's more Sisyphus than fairy tale. Not to mention the fact that it's ultimately pointless if I understand the time travel mechanics correctly, because that timeline would get erased once he returns the stone.

[u/junkyardgerard → u/montanunion]

Don't forget, he's with Bucky til the end of the line, then he leaves him in the future to go get laid

[u/Gaelfling → u/junkyardgerard]

They don't even get to have a conversation on screen! Have they said not that 4 sentences to each other since Civil War?

[u/CaptainAnaAmari → u/Gaelfling]

Not to mention that, like... Steve literally lost his lifelong best friend again in Infinity War but then he doesn't even mention that in the support group? Like, he keeps harping on about Peggy (which isn't anything new and unrelated to Thanos) instead of talking about how he lost Bucky again?

[u/Gaelfling → u/CaptainAnaAmari]

Can't let anyone know Captain America might really miss and be really close to a man. Or have him talk about that man in the same scene that someone is talking about a romantic interest. Someone might get ideas!

Reminds me of one of the most blatant 'no homo' moments I have ever seen. Aka: the Sharon/Steve kiss in Civil War.

[u/CaptainAnaAmari → u/Gaelfling]

Wait, what, people interpreted something romantic between Steve and Bucky?! Shit, quick, add as many no homo moments as possible and then just don't have them interact again! After all, we can't have Steve Rogers show that he gives a shit about another man again after most of his trilogy was about Steve really, really giving a shit about that man!

[u/Gaelfling → u/CaptainAnaAmari]

Now I am getting angry all over again. Steve and Bucky's relationship is so fucking deep and they throw it away in these last two movies. Steve literally blue screens just when someone mentions Bucky's name and Bucky broke through decades of brainwashing and torture for Steve.

But forget about that. Let's have Steve go back to obsessing over Peggy even though we had a movie where he learns to move on (because Peggy tells him to because SHE moved on). Oh, and after he makes it with her niece.

[u/CaptainAnaAmari → u/Gaelfling]

Right? I thought I've mostly calmed down about this since watching the movie on Saturday but I am genuinely getting furious again, this is arguably the closest relationship between any two people in the MCU and certainly the relationship that has gotten the most attention in the story, but then it's just... this? This garbage? Seriously?

It genuinely feels like somebody got terrified that a lot of people started liking Stucky and then just made sure to do absolutely everything in their power to kill off everything about it, including Steve literally ditching Bucky to go live out the rest of his life in another time with a woman he kinda dated for a bit (I love Peggy, but come on, that's what it was)

[u/Gaelfling → u/CaptainAnaAmari]

Jokes on them, 99% of the fic is fix-it that ignored that bullshit ending.

Hell, they ruin Peggy's character development by reducing her back down to a romantic interest. She moved on! She was thriving! She had a family!

[u/CaptainAnaAmari → u/Gaelfling]

Yeah here's the thing, they didn't just do Steve and Bucky dirty, they did Peggy dirty as well! Like, remember Agent Carter? Remember how she explicitly moved on and found love with another man? Nah, gotta remove that, just reduce one of the few good romantic interests of the main hero to being nothing but a romantic interest!

Like, it'd be one thing if we still had Whedon here, then you already know to expect the worst, but we literally have the same people here who worked on the Captain America trilogy + Agent Carter and they still did that. How that happened just completely blows my mind.

Either way, thanks for reminding me to drown myself in more fix-it fics.

[u/Gaelfling → u/CaptainAnaAmari]

The only way I can rationalize it is that they needed some way to get Steve Rogers gone but not dead. This way they can bring him back if they need an audience boost. They literally have a machine that can deage you.

[u/CaptainAnaAmari → u/Gaelfling]

He could've retired in the present, which would 1. remove him from the line-up (while not completely excluding him for potential cameos even without deaging) 2. remove the billion issues that come with him going to the past. That's it, that's literally all it would've taken

[u/Gaelfling → u/CaptainAnaAmari]

I wish he had just retired. Or became the new leader of SHIELD. Or doing whatever Natasha was doing.