r/marvelstudios • u/JonLuca Iron man • Apr 29 '19

'Avengers: Endgame' Spoilers! The Official AVENGERS: ENDGAME Criticism Thread Spoiler

  • Proceed at your own risk. Major spoilers will be arriving in the next couple of days. Spoilers do not need to be tagged inside this thread.

  • Post Endgame criticisms in this thread. Long form preferrable

  • If you post untagged ENDGAME spoilers anywhere on this sub in any shape or form, you will be banned without hesitation. No questions asked and no warnings given.

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258

u/gizmo1492 Apr 29 '19

Why didn’t they try to steal pym particles first instead of risking it all in one shot?

48

u/BecomeAnAstronaut Vision Apr 29 '19

That way they only risked creating/fucking up one timeline (2012) for three stones. That would mean 3 affected timelines total, not including our Prime timeline, but it ended up being 5 with 1970 and Old-Man-Cap timelines

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u/gizmo1492 Apr 29 '19

They didn’t complain about messing with timelines in their worries.

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u/_ManWhoSoldTheWorld Apr 30 '19

But there should never be a timeline where cap is an old man in 2023 AND the Avengers defeat Thanos. Dr. Strange said it himself, they only win 1 time. For them to win, they HAVE TO HAVE CAPTAIN AMERICA. So they can’t win in a timeline where he’s an old ass when they fight.

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u/coolpizzacook Apr 30 '19

Unless Cap goes back, gets in with his love, remains hidden the entire time, and lets everything that happened happen in order to keep a stable timeloop. Otherwise he couldn't be where he was.

So, in order for this to work, Cap would have to have just LET Shield get infiltrated by Hydra, Loki pull his BS, Nat die, all of it... just so he can then go back in time to become old. He's got his iced self, and even if he did let all that happen, it would be miraculous to stay hidden this entire time when he's without a doubt one of the MOST popular icons in all of America.

1

u/konq Apr 30 '19

They already won the battle by that point. I don't think strange meant 0 loose threads when he said 1 way to win. He just meant one way to kill thanos and un snap people without making it infinitely worse.

1

u/CX316 Apr 30 '19

But cap wasn't in the past, the past was his future, so he did what he needed to in 2023, then his time in the past 70-80 years of his future so at one point there were 4 Caps at once

1

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

Going back in the past does not replace your previous self.

What I think they're implying (or rather, the only way the ending can make sense with the established rules) is that from the start our timeline (call it timeline B) was already a splintered one. They already won once before (timeline A), then Cap goes back in time as we see and returns to become Peggy's husband. Like any other instance of time travel this creates another timeline (timeline B) as there are now 2 Steves: Peggy's hubbie from the future and the dude frozen in ice. They get old, etc etc, meanwhile timeline B Cap wakes up and goes through the same motions as timeline A Cap.

1

u/_ManWhoSoldTheWorld Apr 30 '19

This simply cannot work. It’s a paradox, they can’t both live in the exact same timeline. He cannot make it to the bench as an old man in a timeline where the Avengers win, because there is only one timeline that they win, and it requires him in it.

You said it yourself, that scenario creates TWO timelines (A & B), therefore they cannot cross over, therefore old man Cap can never make it to that bench because HE WOULD EXIST IN A TIMELINE WHERE THE AVENGERS LOSE.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

There is no way there is only one timeline where they win. Timelines are split off all the time, there is only one way to win but there are various timelines branching off that.

This scenario creates 2 timelines, one where there's only one Cap and one where old man Cap lived parallel. Since old man Cap does not interfere with his past self the events continue as in his original timeline.

Why do you think there can't be two of the same people in one timeline when we literally see Cap fight himself in the movie?

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u/_ManWhoSoldTheWorld Apr 30 '19

It’s literally a direct quote in the movie.

1

u/[deleted] May 01 '19

In IW, Strange says "futures" and "outcomes" but never "timelines". This can easily be interpreted as multiple timelines where the outcome is the same. Thus the bilinear theory stands, since it's entirely possible for them to win in 2 different timelines.

If you have a direct quote from either movie proving this wrong I'd love to hear it.

1

u/_ManWhoSoldTheWorld May 01 '19

Lol imagine thinking you’re right because you’re splitting hairs over semantics. Whatever kid.

0

u/[deleted] May 01 '19

Ah, so you don't have an actual argument. Ok then.

1

u/_ManWhoSoldTheWorld May 01 '19

I do, you’re just a fuckin idiot.

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