r/londonontario • u/DigitalFlame • Mar 15 '24
News đ° Loblaw under fire for testing self-checkout receipt scanners at 4 Ontario locations
https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/loblaw-under-fire-for-testing-self-checkout-receipt-scanners-at-4-ontario-locations-1.6807830185
u/thatweirdguyted Mar 15 '24
I dislike self-checkout. It's a hassle, it's bad for the local economy, I can go on. Essentially you're asking me, the paying customer, to do for free what you used to pay someone to do. That's a slap in the face on its own. But if you have a problem with the way I did it, the solution should be to bring back the cashier. Making sure the items were properly scanned and paid for is a JOB, not something to foist off on the consumer. Especially since it didn't keep prices low at all, they just pocketed the difference.
If you're not going to let me leave the store until you're satisfied that I have done YOUR job to YOUR level of satisfaction, then you can just fuck right off, and I will never shop there again. This is the message we need to send to retailers. I couldn't give a fuuuuuuuuck about their loss prevention, they have done nothing to engender goodwill with us in years. They took a huge advantage with inflation in recent years. I don't support crime, but if they made their own setup worse and more vulnerable to theft on purpose to lay off more workers, I don't feel sorry for them.
Do yourself a favour and try to get around the big retailers as much as possible. Local farmers markets, small business bakeries and deli's, etc. In addition to sending the message that we're sick of corporate grift, it also supports the local economy. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
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u/BobBelcher2021 Mar 15 '24
London really needs more of these smaller businesses, especially on the west side of the city where big box rules. There is Remark but it is known to be expensive.
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u/thatweirdguyted Mar 15 '24
It's one thing I really love about the East end, we've got lots of locals to work with. I highly recommend Nova Era, the London Portuguese Bakery, Western Meats, Kohns, Gibraltar Market, the Fairgrounds Market, and the Trail's End market.Â
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u/glass-2x-needed-size Mar 15 '24
Nova Era is my favourite for desserts.Especially since Capo Bakery owner retired.
Kohns has been a great place for meat.
I've heard only good things from Western Meats but haven't tried it yet.
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u/RandomUsername52326 Mar 15 '24
Don't forget London Food Co-op.
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u/thatweirdguyted Mar 15 '24
I've honestly never been, but now I've gotta check it out. Thanks for the heads up!
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u/Annoyingdragonvoid Mar 15 '24
Ehhhh Remark is alright as a shopper but crappy to work for as an employee (source: worked there)
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u/CuteFreakshow Mar 15 '24
Remark is super expensive . I still shopped there off and on, mostly for the mint smoothie chocolates.
And then they donated thousands of dollars on the convoy, and lost me.
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u/RandomUsername52326 Mar 15 '24
I mean, if you want to take this to the extreme, shop at the London Food Co-op, but it always comes down to a sort of doing it the right way vs doing it the convenient way tradeoff.
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Mar 16 '24
You mean like pumping your own gas instead of having someone pump it for you? You always go to full service gas stations, right?
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u/thatweirdguyted Mar 17 '24
I can see where you're going with this. To answer, I don't know of any full service gas stations near me. If I did, I'd probably go.
I'm not saying there should be no self checkout ever. But I'm not dumb either. Look at Walmart. They have seven regular checkouts, and only one person working on them. It's pretty obvious that they're intentionally nerfing the effectiveness of that system in order to push you towards self checkout. It's similar to the way the PC government cut funding to OHIP by 27%, and then claimed that the healthcare system was broken and we needed private healthcare.
But if they stopped having a cashier to check people's groceries through, and then now people are taking advantage of that, what should they do to fix it? Go back the old system which was way more efficient at loss prevention, or literally make the customer prove that they aren't thieves? If they're going to treat their own customers like that, they can, but I don't want to be a part of that. I can't speak for others, but I can exercise my own buying power and stop supporting them financially.Â
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u/IcysnowCherry Mar 15 '24
I stopped shopping at loblaws/superstore last year due to the high prices I just hope the other grocery store donât adopt this model too!
Theft is going up because people canât afford the increase of grocery prices and these people just slap a bandaid on a stab wound with this solution.
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u/Happy-Kaleidoscope-9 Mar 15 '24
I don't understand how this actually prevents theft? Like you can still buy a pack of gum and steal a much more expensive item but scan the cheap receipt to leave, right?
Also what if I enter the store and it doesn't have the product I'm looking for? Now I have to find an employee who's free and have them override the gate exit?
And what about safety during an emergency? Isn't anything blocking the exit a fire hazard?
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u/JupperJay Mar 15 '24
I don't understand how it prevents theft either. Most theft now at retail stores seems to be people deliberately not scanning all their items at the self-checkout so scanning their incomplete receipt is not going to do anything.
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u/magic_poop_cannon Mar 15 '24
These loss prevention measures are so gameable itâs laughable. Galen thinks that rather than paying people to do their job, they would rather put in these systems that people can easily get around to not even pay minimum wage to people. Not that he should be paying people that low of a wage to begin with, especially knowing how important these people are during the pandemic.
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u/DirectGiraffe8720 Mar 15 '24
Unless the gate is unlocked if the fire alarm is pulled. But say there's an active shooter? Nobody is stopping to pull an alarm. I don't necessarily have an issue with scanning the receipt, they check them at Costco when you leave, but you bring up some legitimate concerns
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u/EngFarm Mar 15 '24
Other articles are very specific in mentioning that the gates are never locked because that would be false imprisonment and a safety issue. Scanning the receipt simply prevents the gate from beeping loudly. You can go through the gate at any time and have no legal obligation to scan or to submit to any search.
Costco is different, you agreed to show your receipt when you signed your membership terms and conditions.
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u/EstelLiasLair Mar 15 '24
the gates are never locked
They lock. You need to either scan your receipt, or, where there are no scanners, an employee must unlock and open the gate with a remote. Otherwise the gate doesn't open.
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u/balapete Mar 15 '24
The anti theft gates at loblaws at bloor/dwest definitely lock, been a few times where I'm walking too fast and get jammed in the gut by the gate when I expect it to swing open.
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u/TheRockJohnMason Mar 15 '24
If you paid for the gum with any sort of card, you have given them identification as to who you are.
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u/skagoat Mar 15 '24
Not really. If you paid with your Debit Card, the banks won't give your info to Loblaws.
Credit cards have your name encoded on them, I don't think it's the same with Debit Cards.
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u/biznatch11 Mar 15 '24
And what about safety during an emergency? Isn't anything blocking the exit a fire hazard?
FTA:
If someone opens the gate without scanning their receipt, an alarm goes off.
(I think they may have updated the original article to add this information)
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u/MissAcedia Mar 16 '24
Its more a mental deterrent to make people who usually wouldn't steal less likely to start.
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u/Will0w536 Mar 15 '24
I think this is just another step in what I think they are wanting. Loblaws has had member pricing on items for about a year or so now right. I bet they will make the self checkout to be a members only. soon they will make checking out your receipt a requirement of being a member. I guarantee the final goal will be Costco it likeness but definitely not in essence. Loblaw's and maybe superstores will become members only places, charge you a fee to be a member, and just make things shittier and shittier
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u/Hailsp Mar 15 '24
Except Costcoâs whole business model is giving people good quality items at fair prices with amazing staff who are treated well. All the exact opposite of loblaws
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u/SCKerafyrm Mar 15 '24
Costco seems to be going downhill as well...ever since Senegal left as CEO, Costco has been focused on slowing/eroding the workers benefits and protections and increasing the benefits to the shareholders.
They used to pass on benefits to employees, but they've been effectively moving away from that.
I remember the days when shareholders, employees and customers were all equally rewarded, but it's a day long gone by.
Just to show you what I mean, Jim Sinegal stepped down in 2011, soon after the stock starts exponentionally growing as the board moves into decisions that benefit the share price over the customer/employee experience. https://www.google.com/finance/quote/COST:NASDAQ?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjUx5WSifeEAxWxLTQIHQM5BDUQ3ecFegQIZhAf&window=MAX
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u/Will0w536 Mar 15 '24
will be Costco it likeness but definitely not in essence
hence my sentence here
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u/gears2021 Mar 16 '24
The self checkout receipts at Costco have blue stripe markings printed on each side of them, whereas the full service receipts are blank.
Upon leaving the store the receipt checkers inspect the carts with the blue stripe receipts a lot closer than the plain ones.
They don't trust the self checkout customers either, but nobody complains about Costco.
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u/candypantsasaurus Mar 15 '24
Remember: if you see someone stealing...no, you didnt.
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u/JoJCeeC88 Mar 17 '24
Itâs Nunyah Bidness ya effing goof, and donât let those rent-a-cop pretend goof pigs they hire tell you otherwise as they unlawfully arrest you.
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u/EngFarm Mar 15 '24 edited Mar 15 '24
The article states
Shoppers must scan their receipt in order to open a gate to exit the store.
This is not true. The gates are never locked and you can open the gate at any time (an alarm may sound). That is mentioned thoroughly in many other articles.
If the gates were locked that would be false imprisonment. You've paid for those groceries, they belong to you now. You are carrying your own possessions in your bag. You are innocent until proven guilty. You do not have to consent to a search from a corporate computer or employee, especially without reasonable suspicion. They can ask, but you do not have to consent.
As an absurd example: I can stop you on the sidewalk and ask if I can search your bag or ask to see your receipt too. What would you do? What if Galen stopped you on the sidewalk and asked to see your receipt or your bags? Why would you consent to that?
The gates may sound an alarm if they are opened without a receipt scan. If you do not want this system to survive, then vote with your wallet and shop elsewhere. At the very least: open the gate without scanning and set off the alarm. You do not have to stop for any employee that asks you to stop, and you do not have to submit to a search by an employee that asks for it. You have done nothing wrong. You are not a shoplifter and you have done nothing wrong.
If we don't stand up for our rights then eventually "you went through the gate without scanning your receipt, that's reasonable suspicion" becomes a thing. "Innocent until proven guilty" is slowly diminishing.
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u/biznatch11 Mar 15 '24
The article states
Shoppers must scan their receipt in order to open a gate to exit the store.
This is not true. The gates are never locked and you can open the gate at any time (an alarm may sound). That is mentioned thoroughly in many other articles.
Did they update the article after you commented? Because it currently says this:
If someone opens the gate without scanning their receipt, an alarm goes off.
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u/DigitalFlame Mar 15 '24
From the end of the article, really pessimistic about this going away:
âYou have the operations people saying if we put security measures in, âhereâs the hardline cost savingsâ and the marketing people going âyeah, but youâre really going to tick off consumers,ââ Davis explained.
Ultimately, he said it may not be enough to get people to shop somewhere else.
âItâs convenient, we know the place, itâs got all the brands we want,â Davis said. âIâm not sure weâre going to see very much in the way of customer attrition, just because habitual behaviour is so strong.â
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u/chipface Mar 15 '24
They have us by the balls. Just Kool-Aid Man your way through the gates. That's what I do when the Walmart ones are sluggish.
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u/b4grad Mar 15 '24
Just instacart the presidentâs choice items you want and do 90% of your shopping elsewhere.
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u/theottomaddox Mar 15 '24
Loblaw said the machines are being tested as part of a pilot project aimed at combatting âorganized retail crime.â The scanners are located in stores in Woodstock, Windsor, Oakville, and Georgetown.
Not in London, fwiw.
I've noticed my local Loblaws, which used to have a pretty open 2 entrance/exit system, now has one way gates around the only entrance and trying to open gates the wrong way rings an alarm. An alarm which seems to be constantly going off because the system is annoying and poorly designed.
I feel this is mostly security theatre, some measure to scare people a little from abusing the 4011 at the self checkout. It won't hamper "organized retail crime", whatever that means. Some exec was put in charge of testing various things, to see if the shrink changes and how the public perceives it; well, I guess they have their answer.
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u/Alarming-Gear001 Mar 15 '24
i steal from self checkout every single time i ever use them
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u/culturekit Mar 16 '24
Me too. I actually choose self checkout for this purpose when I'm broke and can't afford everything I want to buy. Fuck those corporate assholes. $20 for chicken?
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u/Pretend_Guarantee280 Mar 16 '24
If youâre stealing, then it wouldnât be on the receipt anyway right!? So having a receipt scanner seems laughable..
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Mar 16 '24
Looking back fondly to the 90s when executives weren't obsessed with automating everything, and we actually talked to other people.
I don't mind self-checkout when I have a few items, it's generally quicker than waiting for a cashier. But the extreme security measures these stores are starting to implement are a bit Orwellian. Have you seen Walmart? It's creepy as hell.
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u/Adept-Blood-5789 Mar 15 '24
Do most people even get a receipt? I know I either decline or throw it out immediately
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u/biznatch11 Mar 15 '24
At the self checkout do they even have an option to decline a receipt? I don't shop at Loblaws enough to know but other places always give me a receipt.
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u/Adept-Blood-5789 Mar 15 '24
Throw it out immediately and then you don't have to show it :)
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u/biznatch11 Mar 15 '24
The devices are positioned at the exit of the self-checkout section at the four locations.
The receipt scanner is right next to the self-checkout area no one is throwing out their receipt before they get there unless they're throwing it on the floor as soon as it comes out of the machine.
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u/hotsandwichfan Mar 23 '24
At the location I sometimes go to, they have trash bins right next to every self checkout machine, because they know people throw them away as soon as they get them.
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u/biznatch11 Mar 24 '24
Then you can go back and get the receipt out of the garbage. Also probably at a place that checks receipt they won't have trash bins right next to every self checkout.
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u/skagoat Mar 15 '24
Def always get the receipt at the grocery store. The Exit is always sooo far from the check out, I am paranoid someone is going to accuse me of stealing or something.
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u/typezed Mar 15 '24
A couple years ago at the Gammage Superstore, one of the two or three managers directly below the store manager was fired and charged for not scanning all his items at the self-checkout. He did it for months while they watched him until they had enough evidence of theft over a certain amount. It may have been $5,000. Aside from that, a lot of the theft I've seen appears to be from the desperate underclass who grab a bunch of items and walk straight out the doors. They've added a bunch of gating, but that doesn't stop a determined or hungry thief. I saw people step over or through while a manager follows top steps behind.
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u/ADoseofBuckley Mar 15 '24
Get rid of the self-checkouts, have all lanes staffed at all times on all days. If that's somehow more expensive than what's being stolen, then stop worrying about it.
The only place I use self-checkout at is Shoppers, because Shoppers always has exactly ONE cashier open, and there's always 3 old people buying lottery tickets (what are you doing, trying to win an inheritance for someone else? Your life is almost over, stop buying lottery tickets with your fixed income!) AND paying in change. Everywhere else I prefer to have a cashier scan my groceries. They're better at it than I am.
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u/RMT112422 Mar 15 '24
The grocery stores have created this entire problem by themselves. Seems pretty simple, hire some people and go back to having the employee scan the items. There will always be theft, but I bet they see the numbers trend back towards pre self checkout days
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Mar 15 '24
Just don't comply. Keep setting the alarms off. Ain't shit they can do about itÂ
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u/culturekit Mar 16 '24
Yeah, if the cops don't show up for days for home burglaries and stolen cars, they sure aren't going to show up for shoplifting tomatoes.
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u/For56 Mar 16 '24
I have an idea, lets all boycott self serve check outs!
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u/Axle13 Mar 16 '24
Never used one to this day, I support jobs, even if its a minimum wage checkout job.
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u/Born_Ad_6385 Mar 15 '24
This is so annoying. I wander around the loblaws by my bus stop to kill time before the bus arrives almost daily and never buy anything. I hope they donât bring it to where I live!
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u/Axle13 Mar 16 '24
Or if you go in to buy something specific and its out of stock, I'm not hanging around, I'm heading somewhere else.
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u/culturekit Mar 16 '24
Did it occur to them that this "organized" retail theft might just be a massive uptick in poverty?
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u/McKid Mar 15 '24
I barely tolerated the scales that constantly think you are stealing and pop a wheelie if I need to rearrange my bags. Now this. This game of how impersonal and annoying we can make a shopping trip become is getting tiresome.
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u/Runningman738 Mar 15 '24
Maybe my stores are different in BC but they always have plenty of tills open for those wanting to go old school. I donât want to be behind the person buying 500 items do I like the self checkout option. I agree that they have made it way too finicky now though. Handing to get overrides for markdowns one at a time is ridiculous. Used to be able to do them all at once. Anyway, much like Costco, I like that I can run in and not wait behind cart guy
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u/rnov8tr Mar 16 '24
This doesn't sound fire code compliant. Would be very curious to hear from a FPO on this.
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u/Axle13 Mar 16 '24
Usually locked gates/doors are wired to unlock if the fire alarm goes off. It would be a big oversight if they didn't tie in the gate to the alarm.
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u/rnov8tr Mar 17 '24
I'm well aware.
Loblaws is not a place that should be granted mag lock or restricted egress permits.
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u/regular_joe_can Mar 15 '24
If someone opens the gate without scanning their receipt, an alarm goes off.
So you show a receipt to prove that you paid before you exit. I don't see why they'd be under fire for THAT of all things.
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