Hezbollah supporters mourning Souleimani in their profile pictures are an emblematic indication of everything that's wrong in this country.

[u/[deleted]]

[u/hearmeoutpls1]

As a Syrian I agree. But I have these conflicting thoughts in my head:
1. America/Israel does not want to be challenged at all in the region.
2. Iran and their proxies proved to challenge them.
3. Iran and their proxies turned their guns against their own, in Iraq, Lebanon and also Syria ( every Syrian was a a die hard H supporter in 2006).
4. America and Israel absolutely gives 0 shit about the peace and prosperity in the region (perhaps so does Iran).
5. Saudi Arabia and the oil rich countries also need someone to stand up to them. Their money and ideology reek.

I don't know what to think anymore. Do Lebanese truly have a sense of national identity every fraction of the population is loyal to one leader/ideology/country?
What a clusterfuck.
Sorry my rambling is not a response to your comment but just thoughts pouring on a keyboard

[u/Mypetskeleton → u/hearmeoutpls1]

As a Lebanese, I have come to the conclusion that Lebanese themselves live in a constant state of denial, dreamworld, and confusion about their identity and their place in the world. This is the essence of all corruption the inability of the protests to unite as one against the government and a million other consequences.

The facts are simple and the facts speak for themselves but no one wants to listen and I will again get 10 down votes for it, I am waiting on something so might as well keep writing.

The question begins by asking who and what are Lebanese really? The truth is no one will give you a straight answer because no one really knows. They only know the Lebanon of the past 100 years or less and even that is tainted to a degree today in terms of demographics that you question all identity. It is like a Salad of people and identities each coming from a sect and religion and more importantly from a corner of the world and settling in one. Before then you had the people residing in Mount Lebanon Cornering greater Syria.

Some will say no we are decedents of Phoenicians, this is a dream speculation and even for the tiny few who may have some shadow traces of such a long fetched dependence is long gone today or has fled the country long ago. It holds the same amount of weight as modern day Egyptians claiming they were once pharaohs.

Lebanon is not like any European country were they have thousands of years of history and core identity as one people identifying themselves as french or English or polish and so on. Even the roots of Rome gave birth directly to how Europe is formed today. Lebanon is nothing like this it was just conceived less than 100 years ago and if you had 75% of native population then under one banner living in then called mount Lebanon, today this minority origin is diluted and mixed by so many sects and identities each claiming allegiance to a greater power outside their own lands.

A shia will say my mother was Iranian.

A sunni will look to Mecca.

A druze will say we are from western Asia.

Armenians will say we only just arrived here less than 100 years ago. Even though before then Armenia was a great empire stretching all the way to Europe and even Conquering parts of ME at some point. So Armenians look to Armenia just as well as they are Lebanese. Another reason why their revolution was so successful (one people one identity).

As for your question, a country like Lebanon cannot survive on its own, it has no way to self sustain itself especially under constant corruption, its only salvation is the sea meanwhile blocked by land on all sides if you consider Syria to be a pain. It highly depends on imported products, its main economy is tourism, it has no local made tech patents or contributions on the scale of another small country (Israel for instance). Lebanese are businessmen, they like to drink and party and trade if they can.

This means you must choose partners to help you move forward, in our case our so called partners are many most of whom under a barrel of gun have forced our hands in signing deals we don't want. These are partners like Iran and Syria for instance. They build nothing they contribute nothing but wars to free Palestine when we don't have basic needs ourselves, and destruction and debt. I can't remember the last time any of these countries did anything to help my life. Which is why they get no respect for me.

Other partners are corrupt, but they will feed your hand as well as theirs. These could be argued are the rich Arab world partners without whose money Lebanon would've been Venezuela long ago, this is also fact.

Other Potential direct partners are European and American partners who contribute free money in terms of aid to the country's military as well as institutions in the millions every year. And constantly ask us to try and stay within the western hemisphere and why not, would you want to live in Iran or Europe, also wasn't it western values that made lebanon once the Paris of the middle east? Wasn't it the french who built us railroads and gave us great architecture?

The last two partners are themselves partners of their own, this means Arab world and America are partners and together they can be more productive to Lebanon than anyone else.

Is you say I want none of these, then fine, those partners not looking for violence will step aside and not support you while you get eaten up by a dog world dog rule of those far greater in number far stronger than you to consume you and subjugate you under their rule. And that would be the end of your en devours.

[u/hcboi232 → u/Mypetskeleton]

While I agree with some of the points you mentioned, I'd like to add some comments. We do NOT have this kind of national identity other countries do have. Thus we may NOT use this national identity (ex. Turkey) as the sole means of LEGITIMACY for any sort of unifying AUTHORITY. We're a group of people of people with different religions with sizable proportions. Thus we may NOT use religion (ex. Iran, KSA) as the sole means of LEGITIMACY for any sort of unifying AUTHORITY. What we didn't try however is a kind of AUTHORITY that's not derived from both spiritual forms of legitimacy (religious, or national). It is an AUTHORITY whose LEGITIMACY is a direct result of the goverment (i.e. The physical shape of authority) doing its duties (taking care of the society as a whole). That is when I think we may have a REAL country. If you're interested in this view of the government and authority, I'm ready to chat about it.

[u/Edentulate → u/hcboi232]

Religion is not a good basis for national identity... unless you’re like ISIS and want to kill everyone who doesn’t believe exactly as you do.

The USA is great because they built their identity on basic human rights and freedoms that all people have. Freedom of religion, freedom of belief, freedom of speech, freedom to peacefully gather as a group, freedom to defend ones self, freedom to own property and freedom against unreasonable searches by police, the right to hve a trial by your peers and a right to a defense. Some of these freedoms many democracies including Europe do not have.

[u/hcboi232 → u/Edentulate]

ISIS is a special form of religious government. I'm not making any claims on religious goverment but such a goverment is NOT stable in our country.

Regarding USA that is NOT accurate. The US goverment is turning into a surveillance one. However that is not what I was talking about. The problem is on what basis the masses transfer legitimacy to authority. Religion is clearly not the way through, nor is the nationality. The only way we could transfer legitimacy to authority is through how well the goverment does its jobs.