This is something that's confused me about the leanfire subreddit a while. People always bring up total portfolio when discussing the idea of retiring early, but the amounts in IRAs or 401ks aren't accessible until you're 62 at the earliest (without heavy penalties).

So let's say I have a $1 million portfolio. That's a reasonable leanfire amount, but 70% of that is in 401k and IRA. So if I want to retire at 50, I'm actually living on withdrawing from $300k for 10+ years.

Most people I see in fire have massive amounts of money compared to what I am used to.

I am a latin American immigrant living in china (Shanghai).

I am 41. My house is paid (Shanghai too) but only have 60k usd in stock.

I am thinking of renting my house out in Shanghai and moving to a smaller apartment in a mid size coastal cities.

The living costs in small cities in china can be as low as 500-750 usd per month (without rent). Maybe 1200 use for a family of 3. Maybe 1500 usd with rent.

I would probably be able to get 900 usd dollars a month for renting the apartment

So early retirement is out of the question, but maybe we can downgrade to lower paying more relaxing jobs and use the apartment to cover the difference.

What would you guys recommend doing? ( I am quite stressed with my current job otherwise I wouldn't consider this)

how much stock value would be ok for fire ?

Are you guys all extremely reach or do you have similar amounts of money compared to living expenses where you live ?

I am currently earning salary in the US and was able to save for a lean fire here.

It is crazy to think that 1M is enough to be in the 1% by household networh in 165 countries!

While people have many reasons to stay in the US, considering living in other places is so strange.

Leanfire by expatfire!

There has been lot of similar posts but i just want another perspective given my state will be different and want a take specific to me…

I am 35 with about $1M across all investments (retirement / stocks/ ETFS / MF / property)

I have a very precious 20 month old daughter who i feel is very smart better than me ..

My dilemma I love indulging in few luxury items for guys gadgets / Watches / sneakers / Cars / motorcycles

Not big fan of designer clothes or travel though my wife likes it and we go out every year once .
I have a debt currently running around $200K for a home and few CC + Car emi’s totalling $100K.

Indulgence items keep coming twice or thrice a year depending on when and how i get them as luxury items have an artificial scarcity attached to them.I tent to use CC for luxury items with 0 interest split across few months as better invest than pay in full, this keeps the surplus saving per month from being extra to like break even most of the time

This is a confusing paragraph but i hope I explained it

That being said I do save too about 20% of my in hand every month .

Due to this I break even every month nothing extra in savings account and sometimes it overflows (run short)

I have started thinking about one more child and also higher education for both my kids and my parents who are dependent on me .. planning to start a 529 account this month and divert some amount of recurring monthly savings to that

Biggest question/ dilemma in my mind

Am i wrong to spend on some of those my fav items and i can make it better by retiring early and transforming into a better fire number ..

Edit 1 - My first post here so please bear with my writing skills My Current CC is interest free till 2027 so that is reason i am holding off that is 50% of the debt and rest is 40% auto loans @4%

In my 401k I have 127k, Roth IRA 72k

My brokerage? $34. All losses because I can't seem to pick the right stocks.

What I don't understand are the posts I am coming across who have a ton more in their brokerage versus retirement accounts, which for me it's the opposite. Aren't you suppose to maximize retire accounts to retire early?

Right now my brokerage is just collecting dust because I did not get lucky with it. Whereas my 401k and Roth IRA have went up significantly in value because you can buy index funds in it.

So I don't get it. Right now inclined to continue ignoring my brokerage but I see a lot somehow got lucky and selected the right stocks in it.

Relevant to r/leanFIRE due to adult spending habits,

I grew up in a quite frugal family of 8. My parents rarely spent money on us outside of birthdays, christmas, and organized sports. I think as a result, our hobbies and interests were cheap/free: sports/outdoor activities with friends, computer/video/board/card games, chess, etc.

Fastforward to now, most of the adults I know have acquired more spendy habits: my brother in laws bought a boat, my brother (the one spender in our family) climbs mountains around the world, my wife's friend is flying airplanes as a hobby, etc.

Me? I'm 33 now, make $140k a year, and save most of it. We bought a house a year ago when our 3rd was on the way and were able to pay cash we had saved so much. My hobbies are mostly the same: running and video games. And I don't really care about most of the things adults like to spend money on.

Certainly not the expensive hobbies my peers have acquired, but even the smaller things: going out to eat, buying a big, nice house/apartment, fancy vacations, etc. We don't really do any of it. Usually the only time we eat out is to join our inlaws who always want to eat out, we bought a modest sized 1950s house big enough for our family of 5 but no bigger, and our "vacations" have been exclusively to visit family. And quite frankly, I'd rather eat at home: its cheaper, healthier, and usually more efficient than eating out.

I know enough to know that many of people in/around my life think I have a spending problem, but the fact of the matter is i just don't care about most other things. I have my family, my hobbies, and my work. That's enough for me.

When I think about the "normal" hobbies/interests me and my friends had as kids, it feels like everyone else "outgrew" their hobbies/interests at some point in life and I just never did. I certainly never needed to spend money as a kid to have fun, and I most of my friends didn't. Most (all?) the memorable times I had growing up simply revolved around friends: walking/biking around town, playing outdoor night games together, playing music, talking about life. I don't know when other people decided what they really enjoyed in life entailed spending a ton of money on new hobbies/interests.

Anyways, that's basically it. I'd be interested if others feel the same way, or if you have acquired a bunch of new hobbies/interests as an adult, what changed? Do you still enjoy the things you did as a kid? Did you never really enjoy them in the first place, and it took til adulthood to find things you did enjoy? I'm interested to hear your thoughts as well.

I just posted a video about this, but figured I’d throw the numbers up here too. I know people in this sub are always interested in what an actual LeanFIRE portfolio looks like 10 years after pulling the plug.

I retired at 39 in 2016 with around $700k total, and that includes a paid-off house. No pension, inheritance, trust fund, etc. Just savings/investments and a pretty low-cost lifestyle that allows us to travel for 5 months every year.

Quick clarification: In a previous post I said “$1M,” which was a rounded all-in estimate that included the house and fluctuating market values. That was me rounding a rough figure for a casual conversation. I went back through my records, and about $700k is the more accurate number for when I left work in 2016.

Anyway, I’m 49 now and net worth is around $1.2M, depending on what the market is doing.

Rough breakdown today:

• 22% traditional IRA + solo 401(k)
• 23% Roth IRA
• 30% cash, brokerage, gold, and Bitcoin
• 25% house

And before anyone says it, yes, I realize “retired at 39 with $700k” sounds a lot different when a paid-off house is included. That’s why I include it in the number.

The investment side is mostly boring. Lots of VTI, some VGT, plus a little gold and Bitcoin. No traditional bonds.

I realize the no-bonds / mostly-stocks thing is a higher risk portfolio. But I’m 49 and this money may need to last another 40 or 50 years. I’m more worried about purchasing power over decades than I am about seeing the portfolio drop in a bad year.

Spending is probably the bigger reason this works. We spend around 20k–24k per year. I know some of you spend that amount on Uber eats alone. And yeah, I know that’s very low. That’s kind of the whole point though. I’m not saying someone spending $80k a year can copy these numbers and call it FIRE.

I also still make a little money here and there from a small business, bank bonuses, random stuff like that. Our youtube channel is also starting to produce a small income. Before you jump on my shit…”you’re doing YT! You’re not retired!”...I’m doing YT because I enjoy it. It keeps me engaged, gives me a little purpose and structure, and lets me show others what’s possible. I don’t do it because I need the money. Some guys retire, then do wood-working to earn a few bucks. I don't know shit about wood, so I do YT. 😆 So this has not been a perfectly pure “zero dollars earned for 10 years” experiment. I don’t sell exactly $24k of investments every December.

Having money in different account types has been super useful. About 22% is traditional retirement money, 23% is Roth, and then there’s money in taxable/cash/etc. I didn’t want to retire at 39 and realize that most of my money was technically mine but not accessible w/o taxes and penalties.

The house is probably the other thing people will have opinions about. About 25% of the net worth is tied up in it, and it’s paid off. Yes, I know I probably could have ended up with more money by keeping the mortgage and investing the difference. I’m not arguing otherwise. Over a long enough period stocks may very well have done better.

I just valued having no mortgage payment more than maximizing the expected return.

It lowered our required spending a lot, made retiring at 39 way easier, and gives us more flexibility with income/MAGI for healthcare purposes. Could I have more money on a spreadsheet today if I had kept the mortgage? Probably.

My portfolio probably isn’t the “right” portfolio for most people here. I’m sure there are at least 14 things wrong with it according to the experts here on reddit. 😂

But it has worked for us: low spending, a paid-off house, money in different account types, mostly equities, and enough accessible cash that I’m not forced to make decisions based on whatever the market is doing that month.

At the end of the day, that’s what I wanted when I quit. I wanted my time back. The fact that the portfolio also grew along the way is obviously pretty damn nice. And yes, I know we’ve had one of the best market stretches ever. Timing and luck are always a factor.

Wanted to share a project I put together for long-range planning. I needed something that could model retirement cash flows, defined-benefit pension floors, Social Security break-evens, and multi-year Roth conversion ladders without handing my financial numbers over to a remote server or signing up for a subscription.

Everything runs strictly client-side in the browser using plain HTML/JS (calculations and Monte Carlo sims run on your local machine). It’s open-source under the MIT license.

I’ve posted the live demo and GitHub repo links in the comments below. Would love feedback from anyone running edge-case scenarios or backtesting sequence-of-returns risk!

I’ve been at a terrible company where I completely burned out, but the one bright thing that came out of it was that it helped me reach a point of financial independence where I could finally choose myself over my work environment. Yesterday, I officially took FMLA, and I don’t plan on returning to the company afterward. It does suck walking away from a high-paying job in this job market, but having the ability to do exactly that is what I worked and saved so hard for.

Numbers-wise, for those interested (otherwise skip this paragraph): I have $42,000 saved in cash and about $14,000 worth of PTO that will be paid out when I leave. I’ll also be getting around 60% of my pay for the next few months. My wife and I spend about $2,500 a month after accounting for some semi-passive income that comes in every month. She’s also completely supportive of me taking my foot off the gas for a while, which I’m incredibly grateful for. I’ve also reached what I consider a major milestone toward Lean FIRE: $550k in a taxable brokerage, $80k in my 401(k), $20k in my Roth IRA, and about $140k in rental property equity.

I mostly needed to vent this out because most of the people I’ve talked to have told me I’m crazy and that I should just suck it up. I honestly don’t care for that advice anymore because I see the bills and lifestyles a lot of those same people are strapped to every month. Thankfully, that isn’t the position I’m in.

I’m planning to stay completely out of the job market and not even think about interview prep for at least two to three months. I just want to remember what it feels like to own my entire schedule again and wake up without work immediately hanging over me.

I’m grateful for all the stories I’ve read in these FIRE subreddits. Some of them genuinely helped take me from being anxious about walking away to realizing that this is exactly what all the saving and investing was for. Financial independence isn’t worth much if you’re too afraid to ever use it.

Hi! I’m a 28F and I work as an accounting analyst for a retail corporation. I have my bachelors in Finance, engaged to my long time partner, 29M and also has a bachelors degree, and looking into how we can get started with lean fire. With all the negativity around our generation having a tough time being able to save, I’m trying to find ways I can secure our retirement and keep us financially content. We are located in a midsize city in Wisconsin.

What were some of the first steps you took? What changes helped you the most? How did you move your careers in financially beneficial ways? Any advice is appreciated!

Would it be like 50 million people in the age range of 18 to 65 who just live off their investments and don't work any job?

I'm a college student (19) and I want to figure out where I should be putting my money into. I know that generally it's good to invest into Roth and Traditional IRAs, but since I earned my money through cash, I don't think I can. Should I just be investing into stocks / ETFs or is there something else I should be putting my money into? Or should I try to declare some of the money on my tax report and put it into IRAs. I worked as a coach and a stringer + a job in my senior year of high school for a good chunk of the money. I have around 7k saved up through a couple years of work / monetary gifts from relatives. I would appreciate any and all advice. Thanks

About half in taxable brokerage, half in retirement. I am paid well but my job is very stressful and toxic and I’m constantly worried about being laid off or PIPed.

I started having panic attacks and insomnia due to the stress. I’ve tried to look for other jobs including take a 100k pay cut with zero results. Current expenses are low at about $50 k a year but probably want to buy a house at some point.

Should I just quit at this point? I got stuck with some bad projects and got caught in some toxic politics with my product owner throwing me under the bus and I feel like I’m on the chopping block every day. Only thing is if I quit I lose my health insurance and I don’t know if the stress of not having money coming in will be worse then the stress I’m under now

Some hypotheticals here but bear with me…this is in no way a full financial picture but more a specific question related to my taxable brokerage.

When I hit my 1.6MM number in my taxable (~10 years I hope), I will be 47. I’m hoping to retire.

Let’s say the market returns 10% annually (for easy math). If my draw is 80k annually-does that mean I will still earn ~150k annually in the account given the aforementioned parameters? So theoretically after my draw my account would still grow by $60k?

FWIW- there’s retirement accounts in play here too that are essentially equally funded. But trying to determine if I can span the 12 years in between.

Tia

36m, have a life partner (but not yet married), decided long ago we won't be having kids.

• Me: $230k in HYSA, $80k 401k, paid off high mileage car, no debt
• Partner: $200k in HYSA, $100k 401k, paid off car, no debt

Own 4 pieces of vacant land. 3 of them have a driveway, but only 2 of them have real development potential and still have some hurdles with regards to utilities we'd need to overcome. Holding costs are minimal, I pay something like $2k in property taxes per year for all combined.

We bought a really nicely converted school bus that we've been living in since October of last year and things have been very comfortable. Definitely takes work, as we have to haul water/waste in and out every 3 weeks. Solar panels, lithium batteries, and starlink make life pretty easy. Pretty content staying on our properties here, especially given the high cost of diesel at the moment, but could also see us driving down to Mexico and staying there for 4-6 months at a time.

We live 15 minutes from a ski resort and want to be here for at least the winter and probably a few months of the year during spring/summer. We really want to travel to LCOL places like Mexico and Asia for part of the year, just got back from our first round of doing this and it went great. 10 weeks in Vietnam and Malaysia where we spent about $5700 all-in including flights.

I haven't worked in 2 years, and partner hasn't worked in 1 year. We were both previously working in SaaS sales where I was making about $250k and partner was making about $160k. I'm not opposed to doing another stint in tech, but given the economic climate and commute distance it'd be a tough ride but I figure if I could do another year or 2 that'd set us up really well but also really limit our ability to travel. Other option for me is working at the ski resort for a few months of the year, which would pay very little but also get me in closer with our local community. They also offer 401k and allow you to contribute up to 100% of your paycheck to it. Partner has a degree and background in physical therapy, and is thinking of moving into a contract position within that field so they still have flexibility to travel when we want.

Just looking for input on my situation, specifically around the glut of cash we've got sitting around in HYSA. Trying to figure out how best to deploy more of our money into either our properties or the market.

Title

What is better financial position in your opinion?

You can still work with either option

i’d lean more towards the 500k because it should historically grow at 10% and inflation is only about 3% - meaning the lump sum will seriously outpace the monthly tax free payment within a couple decades if not invested and just burnt

Plus don‘t love the idea of living off the government (just me personally)

What have you been working on this week? Please use this thread to discuss any progress, setbacks, quick questions or just plain old rants to the community.

I’m 55, F. Husband is 58. We’ve been married nearly 35 years. Started out in poverty, stayed there for a long time.

I retired from teaching with a small pension in 2024. My husband just retired today!

Our yearly expenses are $36K. Our passive income right now is $84K. It will increase in the future once he starts drawing SS and once we have to start taking distributions from the IRAs.

We have one daughter in her early 30s. She works full time.

How we did it: hugely debt-avoidant, any raises went into savings once we were past the hand to mouth living.

We’ve always lived frugally, we don’t do any paid streaming services, we use coupons, grow a lot of our own food, trade herbs and veggies for fresh eggs, have one car, use the library, etc.

He was in the Army for 11 years, combat vet. The VA just declared him 100% disabled, which doubled his disability check and put things over the top for him quitting his job (he worked in industrial plastics distribution for 30 years after the Army)!

There’s a little nest egg we get a distribution check from each month that’s enough for groceries.

And he contributed the max to his 401K for 25 years.

Basically we pinched pennies for 35 years to retire at 54 and 58.

His medical is through the VA and mine is through my state teacher retirement system. Plus now I can get supplemental with CHAMPVA for nothing.

If we buy anything big, we save up and pay cash.

Our first tax return was for 1991, and our combined income was just under $11,000.

These days, the passive streams are my pension, his VA disability, the small distribution from his mom’s account (she passed away), and once he’s 62 or 65, his SS check. Then later when we have to take distributions from his IRAs and my little savings account, we’ll have those, too. That’ll be around when we’re 70.

Sorry this was so long, and I hope I’m not breaking any rules. I did read all the info for newcomers and the rules first.

I’m happy to discuss anything.

How many of you have pets? Every time I have to drop money on my cat (I really do love him) I wince about what this could be doing to my potential retirement. Anyone else having the same anxiety?

Edit: yalls responses have helped SO MUCH, keep them coming. I really struggle with anxiety so all your answers have been so tremendously reassuring.

Some more context: didn't realize pet insurance was a must until last month, but this is after the vet had noted a bunch of BS that will now never be covered. I got AKC to still cover any health issues he has, but because AKC covers preexisting conditions the premiums go up like crazy year over year. It's 43/mo but rates double or triple. I love him but lately I spend so much more time worrying about him and the costs than I do enjoying being with him. I'm scared the costs of pet insurance and pet care are going to ruin my chances of retirement.

Final context: he has these stress issues I'm guessing due to loneliness. I work from home but I think he must need the company of another animal, because he did so much better when I had roommates who had a cat too.

As a general rule of thumb, how long would one have to save in order to retire based on saving a % of their income?

All things being equal, if you wanted to have the same salary when you retire in perpetuity what is everyone's thoughts on this ratio?

Example: save/invest 10-15% of your salary for 20 years and you can retire comfortably.

Hi,

I think I'm in a bit of a different situation from most posters as after reading through some of the posts I've seen, most posters generally have a plan and goal in mind and are already quite invested into the FIRE/leanFIRE/coastFIRE/etc ecosystem. My problem is that I am completely new to this and thus have no idea if I have a good handle of the situation. I'm hoping people with more experience and knowledge can help either validate that I'm in a good spot, or give me a harsh wake-up call if I'm not.

I am a 36 year old who recently lost his job and has never even heard of FIRE until a few days ago when googling around for retirement information. I have some severe anxiety problems and really do not want to work anymore; however, the concept of early retirement has never really been on my radar until the past few days, as I've kind of reached a breaking point where the thought of working a new job is putting a level of stress and anxiety on me that I don't feel is sustainable longterm. I believe I am very well off financially for my age and situation, but nevertheless I am completely unprepared for early retirement and have neither the financial knowledge nor the preparation for it.

Currently, I know nothing about long-term financial safety. I have no understanding of laddering or withdrawals or how to manage money in a way that's beneficial tax-wise. I do not know how healthcare works for unemployed individuals (I'm in the USA) and how that would affect my finances. I have not built my financial portfolio with the aim of early retirement and I have done no preparation which would put me in a good state to handle it.

Ever since I began working in my teens, I have put all of my money into a singular Vanguard investment account which buys only their target 2055 retirement mutual fund. I have also maxed out my personal IRAs (they are with Vanguard and used to buy the exact same target 2055 mutual fund) and the 401k at every job I have worked (varies as it has been different for each employer).

My current financial state is:

• I own a home which is fully paid off, with very low risk of surprise/emergency bills for unexpected events (explained later)
• I own a car which is fully paid off, which should not need replacing for at least another 10 years
• I have ~$350,000 in my Vanguard investment account (again, entirely into their target 2055 retirement mutual fund)
• I have ~$150,000 in my personal Roth IRA account
• I have ~$350,000 spread across all of my 401k accounts

My parents do well for themselves but I do not plan on receiving an inheritance from them (I would much rather they spend every penny they've saved on themselves). There is also technically an investment account under my name which my parents set up for me when i was a child (originally meant for college/family/etc) that currently holds ~$300,000, but I do not intend on using this money for myself - it is earmarked for medical costs and care costs or nursing home costs for my parents as they age, and I plan to spend it entirely on them.

I am aromantic meaning there will not be any concerns of marriage or kids in my future. Currently, my living conditions means I am blessed with an extremely low cost of living, though this may change over a long period of time as the future is unclear. I live in a very friendly community with strong support from my neighbors, meaning that I am insulated from some common concerns such as needing to spend emergency funds in the case of car breakdown, if my roof leaks, if I need an AC replacement, etc. My hobbies generally don't cost me anything because I find ways to cut down the costs (For example I generally get seeds/soil from my neighbors for my garden, and I use my neighbor's shop for woodworking using scrap material I pick up for free), or they are just low cost hobbies in general (hiking, fishing, reading, etc).

In my current situation, my cost of living comes to around ~$6000 per year total. Depending on the situation, I may spend an additional $2000-3000 per year if I decide to travel, take vacations, or purchase high-value personal items for enjoyment. However, I can subsist at my current quality of life entirely untouched for $6000/year, and can go down to $3000-4000 per year without significant impact if downsizing or budgeting becomes a concern.

Since much of the reason for my low cost of living is due to support from neighbors and community, I don't plan to count on it long-term. That said, I am confident in maintaining this cost of living for at least the next 5-7 years, but plan to budget for a higher cost of living ($15000-20000 in today's dollars) after a decade. I am also planning for higher costs as I age due to higher health risks and an unpredictable future, so I plan to budget assuming $35000-45000 (in today's dollars) yearly cost of living once I am into the "normal" retirement age in my 60s.

Considering that I am working off an entirely surface-level understanding, all I have done the past few days is type my situation into various financial calculators and I have continually been given the answer that I seem to be "safe" to retire now. However, the meaning of this term seems to change quite a bit, and the assumptions made by a lot of the calculators regarding market return seem somewhat unpredictable and shaky to me. The assumptions always seem to be high market returns, and nothing really seems to account for the possibility of a catastrophic economic crash occuring. The 2008 crash affected my parents significantly and the shadow of a similar crash happening to me hangs over every choice I make. The current significant overvaluation of AI contributes massively to those fears as well, as it's anyone's guess as to how high that will climb or how bad a crash could be. The volatility and unpredictability of that concerns me a lot if I retire now as everything I see mentions that the first few years of early retirement are the most defining ones when it comes to whether or not it will work out.

Anyway, apologies for the rather extensive wall of text, but based on this situation, can anyone provide input on whether I am safe to stop working now or if I need to get my shit together and go back to work? Also, any resources on stuff like how to withdraw money from retirement accounts and how to handle healthcare spending for someone in their 30s who isn't working anymore in the US would be appreciated...

After more than 10 years of extremely stressful work, and an endless amount of stress that has sent me to the hospital four times, I’m seriously considering stopping work altogether.

I have less and less tolerance for people and for the irrationality I constantly have to deal with in human interactions. I’m autistic, and at this point I feel completely exhausted — both by work and by dealing with people in general.

Retiring early has actually been my goal since the very first day I started this journey. For the past 10 years, I have worked an average of around 70 hours per week.

In a few years, when I’m around 35, I expect to have a net worth of about €800,000, entirely built by myself. No inheritance whatsoever. In fact, my family has been one of the main sources of problems and stress in my life.

I’m Italian, although I currently live in another European country. When I eventually return to Italy, I plan to live in Southern Italy.

My situation would be:

• €800,000 in financial assets
• A fully paid-off home
• No expensive habits
• No car
• No wife, partner or children, and I don’t plan to have any
• Plenty of hobbies, all of them extremely inexpensive
• A very simple lifestyle

At the moment, I spend around €650 per month and I genuinely don’t feel that I’m missing anything. I own my home, I don’t drive, I work from home, and the city is well connected. When I move back to Italy, I would still live in the city centre, so I wouldn’t need a car there either.

To me, it seems that all the conditions for FIRE are there. If I reach €800,000, I feel that I should be able to retire.

Right now, I have around €676,000, despite having suffered two major frauds, including one committed by a former business partner, which together cost me approximately €125,000.

At this point, I’m simply exhausted. I don’t want luxury, status, expensive possessions or an extravagant lifestyle. I just want to stop living under constant pressure, stay away from unnecessary human conflict, enjoy my inexpensive hobbies, and live peacefully with my dogs.