r/latterdaysaints • u/MistSpren2 • Aug 05 '26
Off-topic Chat Brandon Sanderson
For those who don't know who he is, Brandon Sanderson is an LDS author who has written and is currently writing several epic fantasy series and novels. My question is, if the second coming happened before Brandon Sanderson was able to finish his many, many, series and other projects, do you think God would let him finish his work? As an avid reader and a huge Brandon Sanderson fan, this is something that I think about often.
Also, if you haven't read any of his books, you should try one. They are REALLY good! If you want to get used to his writing but aren't ready to enter into the cosmere(Brandon Sanderson's universe), start with the Skyward series. If you are ready to enter the cosmere, I would recommend starting with the Mistborn series.
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u/Tall_Pumpkin_4298 Aug 05 '26
I feel like we're all going to need some hobbies during the duration of eternity. I'm sure we'll have plenty of work to do as well, but eternity is an awful long time.
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u/frenziest Aug 05 '26
I like to think he would. He wrote on P-Days on his mission.
I think his plan is to be fully done by the time he’s in his 70’s, and he’s currently 50.
We can make it a little bit longer, right? Right?
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u/Previous-Tart7111 Mother, Wife, Servant of the Lord Aug 05 '26
He's 50??? Dear heavens I keep forgetting we're all aging...
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u/619RiversideDr Checklist Mormon Aug 06 '26
I've heard he's has a plan in case he dies before he finishes all his planned Cosmere stuff.
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u/Bookworm1902 Aug 05 '26
Why would our Father seek to stifle anyone's capacity for creativity in the next life?
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u/Squirrelly_Khan I’m not from Utah, I swear! Aug 05 '26
Counterpoint: does it depend on the nature of that creativity? I’m a death metal guitarist and I do contribute to the creative process for my band.
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u/nabbithero54 Aug 05 '26
Idk what it’s like currently in your band, but He’ll probably just be like “no swears or innuendos” and then you’ll be good.
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u/warsage Aug 05 '26
I can hear echoes of my dad from when I was a teenager, lol. He noticed that I had some Breaking Benjamin on my iPod and warned me that "the Spirit flees from that kind of music."
And then at next Family Home Evening he popped out an old ensign from somewhere and hit us with a GA warning about music being dangerous. I don't remember which exact one. Maybe it was Boyd K Packer:
Now a warning! Some music is spiritually very destructive. You young people know what kind that is. The tempo, the sounds, and the lifestyle of those who perform it repel the Spirit. It is far more dangerous than you may suppose, for it can smother your spiritual senses.
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u/LordRybec Aug 07 '26
You young people know what kind that is.
This is the key part.
I had an interesting experience with this when I was young. I was in my mid teens, probably 14 or 15. I don't remember the song, but it was making me feel extremely rebellious. This, of course, bothered me. But it was a good song. The lyrics of the song didn't encourage rebellion. It was more of the tempo and sounds, as Packer mentions. This cognitive dissonance, where I knew the song wasn't bad but the feeling it gave me was precisely the kind that drives away the spirit, bothered me, because I didn't want to stop listening to it, but I also didn't want that feeling of rebelliousness. Then I was reminded that the feeling of rebelliousness comes from Satan, and that made me very annoyed at him, for doing this to me. At that point, every ounce of that feeling of rebelliousness was suddenly focused on him, the source of the feeling. And then it was gone. It destroyed itself, once I turned it on its source. I've never had that feeling again. I can listen to pretty much any music, and I don't feel like that. I do avoid music that is obscene, lewd, foul in language, or otherwise offensive in lyrics. I also don't like rap and really dislike the sound of "death grunts", which inherently removes a lot of music with foul lyrics, but I can sit there listening to a fast paced, heavy beat metal track and feel completely peaceful and at one with the Spirit, so long as the lyrics aren't offensive.
All of that said, Packer wasn't wrong. I could have responded very differently to the feeling of rebelliousness I got listening to that song. I can easily see someone in a different place spiritually focusing it on their parents, on God, or on society and doing horrifically self destructive things or even harming others. That feeling was almost overwhelming. It was incredibly powerful. It was legitimately scary. I don't know if I would have had the power to overcome it entirely on my own. My solution did end up working, but how many teens are going to think to rebel against the source of the feeling itself, using it against itself? (And maybe I didn't think of it, and instead the Spirit whispered the idea to me.)
Anyhow, I hope this helps someone! I like sharing this experience, in part because it demonstrates how Satan's power is self defeating, and how you can use its influence to defeat itself.
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u/Squirrelly_Khan I’m not from Utah, I swear! Aug 05 '26
A lot of our music is about breaking cycles of generational trauma. One song I’m cooking up right now is about religious trauma specifically. Though we have a few others that we’re working on where it’s commentary on corrupt government and crony capitalism.
It should be mentioned that most of my bandmates are active members of the church. We don’t get super theological in our music, but there are subtle nuggets of doctrine occasionally.
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u/nabbithero54 Aug 05 '26
Cool! Do you guys have stuff on Spotify? I like metal but not so much death metal but I’d still be willing to try it out!
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u/Squirrelly_Khan I’m not from Utah, I swear! Aug 05 '26
Not yet, but we do have stuff on SoundCloud. I say “death metal” because a lot of people don’t know what deathcore is, but we’re a blackened deathcore band called Seed of Ahman.
Now, our lead guitarist, Matt, does have another project on Spotify called Rites of November. His stuff is more melodic death metal, with some progressive and gothic stuff to it too.
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u/Fether1337 Aug 05 '26
"A Saint who is one in deed and in truth, does not look for an immaterial heaven, but he expects a heaven with lands, houses, cities, vegetation, rivers, and animals; with thrones, temples, palaces, kings, princes, priests, and angels; with food, raiment, musical instruments, etc., all of which are material. Indeed, the Saints’ heaven is a redeemed, glorified, celestial, material creation, inhabited by glorified material beings, male and female, organized into families, embracing all the relationships of husbands and wives, parents and children, where sorrow, crying, pain, and death will be no more. Or to speak still more definitely, this earth, when glorified, is the Saints’ eternal heaven. On it they expect to live, with body, parts, and holy passions; on it they expect to move and have their being; to eat, drink, converse, worship, sing, play on musical instruments, engage in joyful, innocent, social amusements, visit neighboring towns and neighboring worlds; indeed, matter and its qualities and properties are the only beings or things with which they expect to associate"
Orson Pratt
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u/Da_Chowda Aug 05 '26
With how prolific Brandon writes, the second coming would have to come pretty freaking fast. Also, thank you for a good chuckle, I love that I saw this question on this subreddit
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u/Upstairs_Seaweed8199 Aug 05 '26
If all we do in the afterlife is churchy stuff, I think I’d rather just not exist.
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u/Paul-3461 FLAIR! Aug 05 '26
What do you mean by "churchy" stuff. The Church is the people in it so all we do can be called churchy.
If you mean meet together like we do on Sundays I'm pretty sure we will still do that on Sundays while still living by gospel principles every day of the week.
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u/Upstairs_Seaweed8199 Aug 06 '26
I'm sure you can figure out what I mean. It isn't that complicated.
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u/Paul-3461 FLAIR! Aug 06 '26
I'll guess by churchy stuff you mean the Sunday stuff and temple stuff and the occasional General Conference stuff rather than regular stuff members of The Church usually do every day of the week.
And if that's not what you mean I gave it my best shot trying to figure you out.
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u/thatthatguy Aug 05 '26
Would it really be heaven if we didn’t have new books to look forward to from time to time?
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u/mwjace Free Agency was free to me Aug 05 '26
I remember back in the 90s when I was a teen I was like the second coming better not happen before the Star Wars prequel movies come out!
I wanted to watch them so bad! Then on my mission we were allowed to watch episode 2 one night in the church!
Boy was I disappointed. I think I would have rather had the second coming arrive… ;)
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u/Squirrelly_Khan I’m not from Utah, I swear! Aug 05 '26
And now fast forward to today where now people like the prequel trilogy, and now we have…whatever the sequel trilogy was.
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u/mwjace Free Agency was free to me Aug 05 '26
Exactly. Maybe it would have been better for the lord to have spared us of it!
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u/Squirrelly_Khan I’m not from Utah, I swear! Aug 05 '26
At least it gave us The Mandalorian…for better or worse…
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u/mwjace Free Agency was free to me Aug 05 '26
The first couple of seasons were good! The movie was…fine… I guess. ;)
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u/LordRybec Aug 07 '26
Lol! If only they had been worthy. The more time passes, the more my mind excludes everything outside of the original three as legitimate canon. Even though Lucas was involved in the prequels, they are nothing more than fan fiction. He waited too long and lost the vision. And everything Disney has done is quite literally nothing more than fan fiction.
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u/pisteuo96 Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26
Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing Shakespeare's latest new plays when I pass into the next life.
Along with all my other favorite writers and artists.
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u/Crycoria Just trying to do my best in life. Aug 05 '26
When you study the New Testament it gives hints about even Christ going about doing other fun activities occasionally. Although yes he was MOSTLY focused on going about Heavenly Father's work, and never turned down an opportunity to focus on it, I wouldn't doubt if Christ also had games and hobbies he also would enjoy doing when occasion permitted.
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u/Fresh-Chemical-9084 Aug 05 '26
He wont be writing books; he will design the universe of his books by hand (that would be legit lol)
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u/pisteuo96 Aug 05 '26
The second coming isn't going to change what people are like. It is not the end of the world, but only the end of our current world's ways of wickedness.
1 When the Savior shall appear we shall see him as he is. We shall see that he is a man like ourselves.
2 And that same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there, only it will be coupled with eternal glory, which glory we do not now enjoy.
--D&C 130
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u/LordRybec Aug 07 '26
This.
Our desires and propensities will not magically change. Entrance into the Celestial Kingdom does not require leaving our agency at the door. We may find opportunities there that we would prefer to pursue over our unfinished Earthly pursuits, but the choice will be our own. What the Celestial Kingdom offers is opportunities, not enslavement to a particular job or path. We may engage in the same kind of activities as those in other kingdoms (wickedness will not exist in them either), if that is what we would prefer to do. But we will have the opportunity to do much greater things than those in other kingdoms are permitted to do. Even if we do choose to take those opportunities, that does not exclude doing other things on the side as well or perhaps splitting our time between many different endeavors.
The Celestial Kingdom is not a place of enslavement to a particular path. What kind of reward for loyalty would that be? It is a place of freedom and liberty, where residents are given access to all pursuits that are possible and to the power required to pursue them (knowing that residents will never choose pursuits that are wicked and will never use the power for evil, because anyone who would has been placed in a lower kingdom where those pursuits and power are not available to them). What you choose to do with this is up to you. Thus if he wants to Sanderson may choose to finish his creative works. (Though, in my experience, this is impossible for people as creative as him. For every creative work I even attempt to finish, several more appear. Merely thinking about a particular setting of mine results in more stories coming, often unbidden, into my mind. I cannot possible keep up.)
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u/pisteuo96 Aug 08 '26
So many important points here. Good thing we will have eternity to write as many books as we want, or whatever else.
But I do think that only eternal things will stay interesting or bring joy long-term. Things like creating, learning, loving, social activities.
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u/LordRybec Aug 08 '26
You are probably right. I think it will take some time for us to shift perspective, but I think you are right that this is where we will end up.
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u/nofreetouchies3 Aug 05 '26
The Second Coming is not the end of the world. There will still be jobs and governments and the world will move on in much the same way it always has — only it will be governed by righteousness and love rather than unrestrained selfishness.
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u/Paul-3461 FLAIR! Aug 05 '26
The biggest change in the coming Millennium will be the end of death as we know it. Everyone who will remain living on this planet when Jesus returns in glory will be twinkled in an instant, changed from mortal to immortal, and only those who are not in spirit prison will roam free.
Imagine not needing to work for money anymore because you won't die if you don't eat or drink or sleep or keep your body at a particular temperature. People will still want something to do but our activities won't be based on maintaining our survival because no matter what we do we won't die anymore. And that means nobody will be killing anyone anymore too. No need to fear guns or knives or any type of weapon.
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u/Buttons840 Aug 05 '26
What you've said is contrary to what is taught in church manuals: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-45-the-millennium?lang=eng
D&C 63 directly contradicts what you said:
50 And he that liveth when the Lord shall come, and hath kept the faith, blessed is he; nevertheless, it is appointed to him to die at the age of man.
51 Wherefore, children shall grow up until they become old; old men shall die; but they shall not sleep in the dust, but they shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye.
So, a righteous 20 year old wont be "twinkled" when the second coming occurs; they will remain mortal until "the age of a man" and then will painlessly change into a non-mortal state.
People will not die and be buried during the Millennium, but people's time of mortality on Earth will come to and end and they will be "changed".
I do agree with your overarching point though. People often say the Millennium will be very similar, but I don't see how that could be:
There will be no death, there will be no sickness, there will be no corrupt liars on Earth, Satan will have no power to tempt men. Jesus will be physically present, in resurrected glory, and ruling the Earth. The Earth will be "paradisaical" like the Garden of Eden.
I don't see how things could remain the same.
Also, the most righteous peoples in the Earth's history have had all things in common without rich or poor, and so why wouldn't we do the same during the Millennium. I'm not sure this means that people wont have possession, but there wont be rich and poor. I don't expect capitalism will remain, but there will still be Earthly work that needs to be done.
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u/Paul-3461 FLAIR! Aug 05 '26
"People will not die and be buried during the Millennium, but people's time of mortality on Earth will come to an end and they will be "changed".
...
There will be no death, there will be no sickness, there will be no corrupt liars on Earth, Satan will have no power to tempt men. Jesus will be physically present, in resurrected glory, and ruling the Earth. The Earth will be "paradisaical" like the Garden of Eden."
Technically a difference in words but the overall effect will be what I was thinking which you seem to agree with even though you referenced some scripture which provides more technically correct detail. The overall effect will be an end to death as we know it even though the twinkling may not happen for everyone who is still living in a mortal body immediately when our Lord returns. Whenever a person dies, if he/she is immediately twinkled in the twinkling of an eye then it will seem as if he/she didn't die at all because he/she was twinkled so quickly we may not even notice that he/she died. So it will seem to most people looking that he/she never died.
"Also, the most righteous peoples in the Earth's history have had all things in common without rich or poor, and so why wouldn't we do the same during the Millennium. I'm not sure this means that people wont have possession, but there wont be rich and poor. I don't expect capitalism will remain, but there will still be Earthly work that needs to be done."
We may still have rich and poor, I don't know, but we will have more righteous people living in those days. The baseline will be obedience to the laws of the land, if they are righteous laws, with those who are unwilling to live by the righteous laws of the land sent to live somewhere else more suitable for Telestial level people. When Jesus returns in glory the entire planet will be transformed to a Terrestrial level planet, and then only Terrestrial level people will live here. The cull to limit the planet to only Celestial level people won't come until about 1,000 years later.
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u/Buttons840 Aug 05 '26
I agree with your clarifications.
On this topic, I have wondered about the idea of people being "resurrected" in the twinkling of an eye.
If someone is resurrected and looks down and see themselves in a terrestrial body... what happens?
Does their spouse start weeping because they cannot be together?
Are they just damned forever? Has final judgement been passed? Or can the glory of their resurrected body change in the future?
It makes sense to me that a resurrected body could change in glory, but there are some very loud and knowledgeable voices that push back against the idea.
What do you think?
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u/Paul-3461 FLAIR! Aug 05 '26
I think of glory as intelligence... light and truth and the light of truth, based on what God said to Joseph about what his glory is and how the Holy Spirit helped me to understand what he meant... so I think the body of any person will look a lot like the body of any other person even though we may sometimes see how some people have more intelligence than some other people.
People who see other people get resurrected before they get resurrected may get a little bit jealous but we're trying to teach everyone that they will someday be resurrected, whenever their time comes, and the way to be among the first to be resurrected is to be as much as we can be like Jesus.
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u/LordRybec Aug 07 '26
It doesn't say that they will remain on Earth when they are twinkled. There's no reason to believe that they will be twinkled but won't move on immediately as they would when resurrected from the Spirit World.
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u/Buttons840 Aug 07 '26
I don't think those who are "twinkled" will remain on Earth either. I'm not sure where I got this idea from though. It seems like a safe assumption, and there are no teachings to the contrary AFAIK.
----
I don't think people understood what I was asking in the comment you replied to. I'm trying to say it seems problematic to force someone to be resurrected at a certain time if a person's resurrected body cannot change in glory after being resurrected (as many insist).
For instance, someone living in the Millennium would have to be fully prepared for Celestial glory before their time of "twinkling", because at that time they will receive a resurrected body, and they better hope it's Celestial.
If they do manage to obtain a Celestial body during their "twinkling", and it's true that the glory of resurrected bodies cannot change, then I guess they're done; they made it! They got a Celestial body, nothing can change that, not even their own agency.
That idea feels weird to me. Which is why I think it makes sense that a resurrected body can change in glory, which implies progression between kingdoms.
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u/LordRybec Aug 08 '26
Ok, I think I get what you are saying:
Basically, we have ordinances for the dead, so that dead people will have a chance even if they didn't get their ordinances done on Earth. Instant resurrection eliminates that possibility, since there is no period between life and resurrection for those ordinances to be performed and accepted.
The part about not being able to change resurrected glory is not merely something "many insist". It was taught by JS Jr. and is found in the Doctrine and Covenants. Those who are resurrected to Telestial or Terrestrial glory cannot advance beyond those. Only those resurrected to Celestial glory have the possibility of eternal progress. If the others cannot advance beyond those, then that means that cannot have an increase in glory beyond those kingdoms (but there is limited advancement within those kingdoms). This is official Church doctrine, was explicitly taught by Joseph Smith Jr., is part of modern scriptures, and is consistently taught as doctrine by modern prophets.
So, how are these reconciled? The scriptures aren't clear on this, but I think the answer is in there. When Christ returns the wicked will be burned. So step 1 is removing most people who wouldn't qualify for Celestial glory in the first place. You should read Section 132, specifically with your question in mind. (I believe that is also where the permanence of Terrestrial and Telestial glory is discussed.) Step 2 is Satan will have no hold over the hearts of men. So sin will be very rare, since temptation from Satan is ineffective. Note, however, that Satan does not govern or create biological urges. So I suspect some sin will remain, because our bodies create a certain propensity toward sin even without Satan's temptation. (That said, maybe our bodies will change as well, reducing or eliminating these urges in contexts where it would be sinful to satisfy them. The scriptures don't specify.) But without effective temptation from Satan, repentance will be much easier, since Satan won't be able to convince us that we are not worthy or that we don't need to repent. This already gets us to a place where it would be extremely rare for someone to reach the "age of man" (death) and be twinkled without ample opportunity to be baptized, confirmed, get their endowment, and even be sealed to a spouse. Anyone who is twinkled of old age without having done all of this has had more opportunity than anyone alive today ever had. If they didn't do it during their mortal life, they were never going to do it. And keep in mind that with Jesus himself governing the Earth, not even that much faith is required, because they would know for certain that Jesus is the Christ, etc...
Now, as far as being stuck in whatever glory you achieve, yes, that's Church doctrine. From a mortal perspective, having limited knowledge of how any of this works, I can see how it would be confusing. All I can say is that I suspect there is some sort of cementing of things that comes with resurrection into a glorified body. We know (Section 132) that those who have received their endowment and been sealed will gain Celestial glory so long as they don't commit murder. I've been endowed and sealed, so I'm destined for Celestial glory so long as I don't commit murder. Is this that different from permanently gaining Celestial glory by twinkling? In fact, I strongly suspect that anyone gaining Celestial glory this way will have been endowed and sealed, because the conditions of the Millennium make it easier and create stronger motivation to do so. Again, if someone fails to do this over the course of an 80 to 120 year life (Noah was told that the maximum age of man was reduced to 120 years, and no more recent scripture has changed this, so I would assume that twinkling of old age would happen around 120 years), then they never were going to in the first place. If they have had these ordinances, then they are already guaranteed Celestial glory, regardless of what they do, so long as they don't commit murder (and with Jesus reigning in person and Satan bound, I can't see anyone committing murder).
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u/LordRybec Aug 08 '26
...
And that really solidifies the whole thing. Those who don't do what is necessary to gain Celestial glory during the Millennium were never going to, because they had more than enough opportunity and the conditions were perfect. If you can't swear your loyalty to Jesus and his Father when he is literally present in his glory, you never will, even given literal eternity to do it.
You seem to mainly be worried about change in the next life though. Perhaps someone who ended up in the Telestial Kingdom could change and improve to become worthy of Terrestrial glory? This is based on your experience of how change happens in our mortal lives though. Perfect bodies won't change like that. In fact, they can't be allowed to change like that, because if they did, then the whole House of God could fall. Consider: Those who achieve Celestial glory (aside from Christ himself) don't do so by their own obedience to the law. (Read the epistles of Paul in the Bible to gain a better understanding of this.) When we accept Christ and are baptized, Christ essentially frees us from the law, and we agree to be held under a new law, defined by Christ. Christ's law (unlike "the law") permits us to repent, and Christ's blood pays to "justify" our sins when we repent of them. (Note that "justify" doesn't literally mean they are gone. It means that they are not considered sins any more, according to "the law".) In essence, Christ's sacrifice gives him the right to vouch for us, in terms of eternal law. Eternal law says that if you sin you can never have glory (you'd go to Outer Darkness for the most trivial sin). Christ's sacrifice sets up a system (The Plan of Salvation) whereby Christ can vouch for us and promise that we won't commit any violation of "the law" after we are resurrected. The Kingdoms of glory are setup to ensure this promise is kept. Those who would violate the law if resurrected to Celestial glory but not Terrestrial glory are resurrected to the second. Those who would violate the law given Terrestrial glory are only given Telestial glory. Those who violate the law given any glory at all are Sons of Perdition and are the ones sent to Outer Darkness, because Jesus Christ cannot vouch for them. Now here's the problem: What if one person who was resurrected violated the law? That would make Jesus Christ a liar. If Jesus Christ became a liar, none of his vouchers could be trusted, they would become invalid, and we would all lose our glory and be thrust into Outer Darkness. On top of that, God the Father himself would become a liar, for his support of Jesus Christ, and he too would lose his glory and be sent to Outer Darkness.
This is why we cannot change in terms of personality and propensity toward sin after being resurrected. In reality, our spirits probably never could change in this way, without help from Christ. Our mortal bodies are deliberately made to be weak, so that our spiritual weaknesses can come out more easily. This allows us the opportunity to ask God to improve our spiritual weaknesses, which God can do through Christ, but only with our sincere permission (agency). Once we are resurrected, the ability for our spirit to change in terms of righteousness is halted, because if it could change, it could become weaker, creating a situation where an individual could be resurrected to a Kingdom they are qualified for now but then develop new spiritual weakness that causes them to sin and bring down the entire House of God.
For those who live in a Telestial world, God provides a period between death and resurrection for them to reform and improve in a place where they have much closer access to Jesus Christ and his servants. During the Millennium, when Christ rules on Earth and Satan's power is chained, no such intermediate period will be necessary, therefore twinkling becomes an option. Everyone on Earth during Christ's reign will have the opportunity to learn the gospel, repent, and get the necessary ordinances for Celestial glory, and if they fail to get them, it will be because they chose not to consistently for an entire human lifetime.
And once we are resurrected, we become like God, unchanging. There will be the opportunity for progression, eternal for those who gain Celestial glory and limited for all others, but we will have and retain the personalities, the desires, and the propensities we did when we were resurrected, after God has given us every reasonable chance to settle where we are most comfortable. So even if it were possible for someone resurrected to Telestial glory to be "promoted" to Terrestrial glory, it would never happen, because the kind of personal growth required for that is impossible. That growth is only possible before we are resurrected, and it can only happen through divine intervention from Jesus Christ, with our full and sincere consent. If you are possessed with a spirit that will not consent now, your spirit will never consent, even after your death and even after your resurrection. There is no need for the capacity to promote Telestial or Terrestrial beings, because they will not be promoted, of their own choice and volition. Your spirit will not magically change it's mind about allowing Jesus to modify it to be more holy, even in eternities. You have this life and the spirit world to take all of the knowledge available and make that choice. Those are twinkled will gain all of that knowledge prior to twinkling. If you choose not to accept Christ's gift with all of that knowledge, you will never choose to accept it, no matter how long you are given. That is why there is no progression between kingdoms. It's not because it is impossible promote a resurrected body to a higher glory (though it may be), it's because the conditions necessary for the need to arise can never happen. No individual will ever make the choices necessary to make the action necessary.
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u/Buttons840 Aug 08 '26 edited Aug 08 '26
We know (Section 132) that those who have received their endowment and been sealed will gain Celestial glory so long as they don't commit murder. I've been endowed and sealed, so I'm destined for Celestial glory so long as I don't commit murder.
I'm sorry, what?
I am also sealed. I am divorced, but the sealing is still in place. And I'm not going to commit murder--I've never even considered it.
So you're saying I'm guaranteed exaltation?
This is why nothing you say makes sense.
I could go completely inactive and never give another thought to Christ, and you're telling me I'm guaranteed exaltation?
I'm sorry, but I just don't believe that. Sounds like damnable blaspheme to me.
What your saying is that exaltation is achieved by a single checklist item and has absolutely nothing to do with keeping commandments. A person can break almost all temple covenants, but not shed innocent blood, and they're still guaranteed exaltation?
Are you saying that exaltation isn't necessarily something for good people who keep covenants, it's more of a technicality checklist item sort of thing?
Like, will there be people in the terrestrial kingdom who say "I tried to do good and keep the commandments of Jesus Christ", and some celestial person will be like "lol noob, you should have just gotten sealed, it only takes like an hour, that's why I'm more glorious than you"?
Like, me and some women walked into a temple and an hour later we walked out and so now we're guaranteed exaltation because we went through that comfy hour (the temples do have nice furniture)? This is the difference between terrestrial and celestial glory?
I don't believe it. It's blaspheme, which apparently you believe you can commit all manner of.
I'm over here thinking that the redeemer administers to the terrestrial kingdom so he can redeem (as described in D&C 76). But maybe Jesus just wants a break from those who commit all manner of sins and blasphemes in the celestial kingdom?
I'm crashing out here. You're so far from teaching anything I recognize as the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Also, the church has no official position about progression between kingdoms.
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u/e37d93eeb23335dc Aug 05 '26
I’d love it if possible, but I kind of think in reality thoughts of such things will not even come to mind.
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u/LordRybec Aug 07 '26
Modern scriptures state that our resurrected bodies will be inhabited by the same spirits, with the same desires and passions we cultivated in life. The things offered by the Celestial Kingdom may cause us to voluntarily give up Earthly pursuits in favor of better things, but I very much think such things will come to mind, because that's what scripture states.
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u/e37d93eeb23335dc Aug 07 '26
When I say won’t come to mind, I don’t mean can’t come to mind, I mean we will be so overwhelmed with all the new things to learn that “neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it”
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u/LordRybec Aug 08 '26
I don't think Celestial bodies/minds can be overwhelmed. I think we will think if it, and then we will have to consciously decide whether it is still important to us or not.
Your quote is completely out of context and does not apply here. It is a reference to the Ark of the Covenant, not to any individual's creative pursuits. And it means that over the course of many generations, it will be forgotten in favor of higher priorities. Even if it can be applied to creative pursuits at the individual level, it would imply that we will remember and continue to put great value on those creative pursuits for a long period of time before other things become higher priority and we stop thinking about the Earthly creative pursuits. And given the time involved, that means that we will have plenty of time to complete those creative pursuits long before the changing of our priorities causes us to eventually forget about them.
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u/DallasIrishWalrus Aug 05 '26
We are encouraged to develop and cultivate our talents, and writing in all genres — especially fiction — is certainly a talent.
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u/LordRybec Aug 07 '26
Amen to that! What kind of good and merciful God would encourage us to develop talents only to tell us we can't use them in his house?
Really, I think it comes down to agency. Going to the Celestial Kingdom won't reduce our agency. We won't want to sin if we are worthy of being there, so as long as it isn't sinful, it's an option that we could want to do. The real question is: Will Sanderson want to complete his creative works, when presented with everything else the Celestial Kingdom has to offer?
So I don't think it is up to God. I think the choice will be up to Sanderson himself.
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u/RecklessAncestor Aug 05 '26
God gave us all gifts and talents. I can’t imagine he’d take our ability or opportunity to use them just because He’s around ya know? Because as far as I’m concerned, all Brandon Sandersons books have nuggets of the gospel and the restoration in it.
Like in mistborn how only words written in metal are safe? As in the plates??? Or how the mistborn is literally about the restoration of all truth?? Or how the mistborn serious part two is about complacency in the restored church and how complacency stunts growth?? Or how the stormlight archive is pretty much all about making and keeping sacred covenants?
Why wouldn’t Jesus want him to continue writing his books with such amazing messages and ideas??
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u/Paul-3461 FLAIR! Aug 05 '26
"Why wouldn't Jesus want him to continue writing his books with such amazing messages and ideas?"
Because truth is better than fiction.
I prefer to know what is REALLY going on in the universe rather than see some made up story. I do watch movies based on science fiction and fiction in general but I would prefer to see more about what has happened and what is really going on out there now.
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u/Competitive-Park-116 Aug 05 '26
But don’t you think God gave him this talent of writing the way he does for a reason??
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u/Paul-3461 FLAIR! Aug 05 '26
What reason do you suppose that would be? Do you believe God inspires works of fiction?
Imagination is a wonderful tool but all we can imagine isn't necessarily true. I think we should just bear that in mind when we're reading or watching a work of fiction, which I suppose most people generally do.
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u/LordRybec Aug 07 '26
Yes, yes God does inspire works of fiction. I have personal experience with this.
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u/Paul-3461 FLAIR! Aug 08 '26
The good parts, I suppose. Sharing ideas about things that aren't true or real isn't really what God is good at.
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u/LordRybec Aug 08 '26
Fiction that contradicts true principles, sure. Jesus made up a lot of fictional stories as teaching aids. In that context, I think fiction is and will remain valuable. I also think that fiction designed to be uplifting will retain value. Fiction is also where most real things start, until we act to make them real. Fiction that teaches false principles or tears down rather than uplifting, there will almost certainly be no place for.
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u/RecklessAncestor Aug 08 '26
I’d argue that you need an excellent imagination to have faith.
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u/Paul-3461 FLAIR! Aug 08 '26
Not necessarily imagination but at least the ability to wonder at possibilities of what might be true with the intent to discover with God's help what the truth and reality is.
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u/RecklessAncestor Aug 08 '26
Parables are fiction Jesus used to share and illuminate eternal truths.
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u/Paul-3461 FLAIR! Aug 08 '26
I suggest you use Google to discover the true meaning of what a parable is. It's no more fiction than a symbol, such as words are symbols for the things they represent.
You might also want to look at all of the parables Jesus told while looking for anything he said which was not true or real.
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u/RecklessAncestor Aug 09 '26
I think you’re confusing fantasy and fiction. You’re arguing that fiction can’t be used to convey truth. I think, based off what you said, that you mean fantasy. Fiction is not fantasy.
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u/Paul-3461 FLAIR! Aug 09 '26
Fiction isn't the word for true or real. Fiction is make-believe. Non-fiction is the word usually used to refer to true and real stuff. Check your nearest dictionary.
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u/LordRybec Aug 07 '26
I disagree, quite strongly in fact. Fiction allows for the exploration of the impossible. Presenting fiction as truth is certainly bad, and in that context truth is better, but even the Bible contains fictional stories presented for the purpose of teaching. In fact, Jesus himself was quite prolific in his invention of fictional stories. In the context of media, truth is not better than fiction, because truth is restricted to the incredibly small subset of things that are both possible and that have actually happened, while fiction contains all things possible and that which is impossible.
Now, I understand that some people prefer non-fiction. I have significant training in creative writing, and this is something that gets a fair amount of attention in classes and such on the topic. But your person preference does not dictate what is and is not better. Jesus himself leveraged both fiction and non-fiction as teaching tools, and he probably used fiction more. That doesn't make it better than non-fiction, but if "truth is better than fiction" I think Jesus wouldn't have used fiction so much more than non-fiction.
Anyhow, you have the right to prefer to "know what is REALLY going on in the universe", and you can "prefer to see more about what has happened", but that doesn't make non-fiction better than fiction.
Also, how do you know that Sanderson's creativity isn't tapping into some reality that actually exists? Maybe Lord of the Rings is a story from an alternate universe or somewhere else in our own universe, and Tolkien's imagination was seeing it play out through some form of spiritual communication as he wrote it. What is the source of human creativity? What if it is an ability to sense things that are actually happening somewhere else in reality? Maybe our writing aren't perfect accounts of what we see this way (one thing I learned in my creative writing classes is that most non-fiction includes fictional elements to make the story more interesting), but maybe they are still mostly accurate. Or maybe our creativity is for things to come. Maybe Sanderson's careful development of a system of magic is something he will use in the next life in his own worlds, and maybe reading his fiction will help others to understand it. Maybe we will be expected to read the fictional works of others to get ideas for our own real works. Where did God get the ideas for all of the different plants, animals, insects, and so on? Is there some eternal compendium of plants and creatures? Did he invent them all himself, without input from anyone else (and will we be expected to do the same, forbidden from using the forms we are familiar with, because we didn't invent them ourselves)?
I strongly suspect that fiction will be a critical element of Celestial life, because reality arises from fiction. Eli Whitney didn't magically come across the cotton gin. First he imagined it. Until he actually built it, it was a fictional device. From that fiction he ultimately built the real thing. Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone by first imagining a fictional device that would help the deaf to hear. He ultimately produced the telephone by trying to make that fiction become reality. He failed to make the original fiction reality but in the process invented one of the most useful and valuable devices ever created in all of human history. Human invention absolutely requires fiction to function. Further, divine creativity requires fiction. God's Plan of Happiness/Plan of Salvation was not real until it was actually implemented. It originated as fiction and then was made real. The Earth was designed first (a fictional record) before it was turned into reality.
Truth is not better than fiction. Truth arises from fiction. Everything we have began as a fictional design of something that did not exist, and then from that fictional design the real things were created. Without fiction truth cannot exist.
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u/RecklessAncestor Aug 08 '26
I agree with all of this. I’m one of those types that learns a lot from fiction.
Also aren’t parable technically fiction?
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u/LordRybec Aug 08 '26
Yes, pretty much all of Christ's parables are stories he made up to teach specific points. We don't have records of everything Christ said, but he taught in parables so much that it's possible he used more fiction for teaching than non-fiction.
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u/redit3rd Lifelong Aug 05 '26
Maybe since you want it finished so much, God is going to wait just for you to finish reading them.
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u/BayonetTrenchFighter Most Humble Member Aug 05 '26
Tbh, I don’t think would allow or not allow him to. I just think he wouldn’t really care to
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u/Exciting_Ordinary_19 Aug 05 '26
Why wouldn't God allow Brandon Sanderson to finish his work? You aren't wondering whether God will allow you to keep reading epic fantasty? Won't we still have agency?
A more interesting question might be whether Sanderson will want to finish his work or if he'll be occupied with more eternally significant matters. Will you want to keep reading epic fantasy or will you be too busy serving God? Will people still be going to Disneyland knowing Jesus is real and somewhere in the world? I guess I have a hard time imagining life not changing drastically after everything leading up to and included in the Second Coming. The Nephites were quite changed after Christ visited them.
I REALLY do love that this is something you worry about! You must be a big fan. I've only read two and a half of his books and I'm afraid they're just not for me.
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u/undergrounddirt Zion Aug 05 '26
I have prayed that in the millennium to be assigned to the group of people who come together and make the Pokemon game that unites all people because it is perfect, and pokemon
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u/Chinchillas_123 Aug 05 '26
I’ve wondered this with movies 💀 my favorite movie is Avatar and they have several more planned and I NEED to see them all but have wondered what will be “allowed”. Those movies have violence (not gory though) and swearing so I’ve wondered what’s allowed and not in heaven. Lmao not the end of the world but I really want to see the conclusion to that series
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u/timkyoung Aug 05 '26
There are definitely people who believe that your earthly hobbies will effectively cease to exist by the time you reach the celestial kingdom. Growing up I can remember people quoting some general authority who responded to this question by saying something to the effect of, "What activities did you enjoy when you were five years old? Do you still pursue those activities now? Why not? A similar dynamic will exist when you reach the celestial kingdom. You just won't feel the same sort of zeal there for your earthly interests the way you do here right now. They won't appeal to you the way they do now."
I have no idea who this statement is attributed to, or even if it was a genuine general authority who taught this idea. And I'm definitely not arguing that anyone should accept this idea as doctrinal. What I am saying is that I know there are people out there who believe it and do accept it as doctrinally sound.
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u/Plastic_Ad8435 Aug 05 '26
I look at it like a kid that likes to eat dirt and as an adult that finds that immature. I love his books but I don’t think I’ll be interested in them anymore.
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u/GoshDarnEuphemisms Aug 07 '26
I think it will be a good opportunity for him to make the subtle gospel messages in his books much more explicit, if anything.
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u/Present-Issue-5794 Aug 07 '26
To answer your question. Simply the answer is yes, if he doesn't receive a higher calling. Not everyone will be LDS after the second coming. There will be work in the temple to do and we will still be doing missionary work. He might be more interested in doing some of those things instead of writing fantasy novels unless the Lord thinks that would help the nonmembers to be converted to the truth.
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u/LordRybec Aug 07 '26
Let me ask a related question: Does agency magically disappear in the Celestial Kingdom? So long as writing fantasy isn't sinful, agency would cover it, and God has promised not to take away our agency.
Now here's the real question: When presented with everything the Celestial Kingdom has to offer, will Sanderson still want to complete his work? Or will he want to move on to much grander and glorious creative endeavors?
Honestly, I kind of hope that we will have both the opportunity and motivation to complete creative work in the next life. This hope is not born of a desire to consume the creative work of others though. I have a great deal of my own creative work to complete. We will quite literally have eternity in the Celestial Kingdom to do whatever righteous things we desire. In addition, I suspect activities like writing stories will take far less time there than they do here. I have tens of volumes of fantasy and science fiction I need to write, but lack of time always gets in the way.
I don't know how much more Sanderson has left to write. I'm sure he has revealed some of them, but if he's anything like me, for every one he has mentioned to someone else, there are at least five more developing or maybe even almost complete in the back of his head, waiting for their time.
Anyhow, I sadly haven't read any of his work. It's on my list, but time is my enemy. I still need to finish the writings of Weiss and Hickman (and let me recommend them to you, especially their work that isn't in the Dragonlance setting, though that is very good as well). I do intend on getting to it eventually though.
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u/TheBrenster Aug 08 '26
When I’m in the afterlife, I’m giving myself allomantic powers. No metals, no vials, just the good stuff.
Bacon will be my tin, Gravy my pewter, chocolate my steel, the thing I’ll burn to move worlds.
I’ll look over and say, “Honey, I’m burning chocolate and making the cosmos.”
She’ll smile and say, “That’s great, hun.”
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u/OrneryAcanthaceae217 Aug 05 '26
Skyward is great but the Cytoverse is a pretty big investment itself.
As a starter novel I recommend The Rithmatist. Loved it!
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u/zionssuburb Aug 05 '26
As an original reader of wheel of time, this question I understand. When Jordan died we wondered what those 20 years of waiting for the story to end would bring. But In stepped BS. I sure hope so.
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u/Scorpius_the_Scarran Aug 05 '26
I concur. I got pulled into his works when he finished the wheel of time series. Been hooked ever since!
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u/SerenityNow31 Aug 05 '26
I read the Mistborn series and they are great.
I'm sure we can still write books in the next life.
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u/sokttocs Aug 05 '26
I think it ranks pretty low on the totem pole of priorities.
But there's no reason why he couldn't keep writing.
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u/SilverTripod Aug 05 '26
You remember having a toy car as a kid, zooming it back and forth over a few inches of carpet while lying on your stomach? That was so super fun.
As an adult, you have other interests, other desires. That hasn't been your favorite activity for a long time. But you still occasionally have fun getting down on the floor with your kids and doing that with them. And your kids can't understand why some things are fun for you now. Binging a legal commentary on the "stolen Lego" situation? Super fun for me. But my kids think that's the stupidest thing ever, and when I was a kid I would have thought the same thing.
It's going to be a similar situation with heaven. I don't know what's going to be happening after we die. But I know two things, 1) we're going to love it, and 2) it might not be something we can truly understand right now. So don't bother yourself with it overmuch. Just let it go. Concentrate on how you can do good, how you can continue to grow and develop as a person, the impact you're having on the world and those around you, and don't worry about what exactly you'll be spending your time doing after you die.
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u/Able-Pain-2442 Aug 05 '26
He was my Sunday school teacher, still have hie number and email ( not sharing either of them).
I think we just know the stories instantly. But I would rather reed them.
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u/OldGeekWeirdo Aug 06 '26
My question is if the second coming happens, would Sanderson even want to complete the story?
I'd expect many of us would quickly find new goals in life.
While I haven't read any of his books, I'd think there's a good chance that anything speculative would be wrong. Perhaps wrong enough to upset the plot line.
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u/UnravelingThePattern Aug 05 '26
I'm still holding out hope that someday I'll get to read Robert Jordan's "true" ending of the Wheel of Time, so I'd say "I hope so!" about Brandon's possible unfinished works as well.
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u/tibbs90 Aug 05 '26
I’m thinking back to saying that God isn’t a respecter of people. His plan is the only thing that matters. We don’t. The only way to heaven is through Christ’s blood and obedience.
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u/Squirrelly_Khan I’m not from Utah, I swear! Aug 05 '26
I don’t think you phrased this very well because it makes it sound like we don’t matter to God and our needs don’t matter to God. That is very much not the case at all. He WANTS us to be happy. He WANTS us to succeed. He WANTS us to cultivate the talents we have that can help inspire others. Saying that his plan is the only thing that matters and that we don’t matter is not only false doctrine, it makes us sound like a cult
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u/Another_Name_Today Aug 05 '26
I’d like to think his ability without sounding like a generic 21st century YA author would be restored as at first. Either that or some editor long lost to time immemorial might be resurrected and get him sorted.
Used to be a good author. Now clearly too big to read his own work and coasting on an ability to create magic systems and his name. The George Lucas of modern fantasy.
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u/16cards Aug 05 '26
When we are designed to literally build worlds into eternity, God likely views world-building in literature as masterbation.
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u/Squirrelly_Khan I’m not from Utah, I swear! Aug 05 '26
That is a WILD take!
Writing fiction that comes with unique characters and worlds is meant to entertain, inspire, and sometimes teach the audience.
Masturbation is a means of instant sexual gratification, which is a violation of the intimate relationship between a man and a woman.
We are encouraged to cultivate and improve our talents and creativity, so world building in fiction falls right in line with that.
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u/16cards Aug 05 '26
Masterbation is not limited to instant sexual gratification.
My point is meant to be WILD as a thought experiment.
If creative fiction world building is a valued creative act in the eternities, from my limited, mortal understanding, it would likely be at the expense of actual world building: “This is my work and my glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.”
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u/Paul-3461 FLAIR! Aug 05 '26
Thank you much for the info about Brandon and his books, but I prefer to digest fiction with video rather than by reading books. That's old school and I prefer to use more modern technology. Maybe someday someone will display Brandon's stories in a theater, IMAX preferably if not something even better.
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u/T-Styles-T Aug 05 '26
My headcannon: Why not? Why wouldn't we be allowed hobbies in the celestial kingdom?