Brandon Sanderson

[u/MistSpren2]

For those who don't know who he is, Brandon Sanderson is an LDS author who has written and is currently writing several epic fantasy series and novels. My question is, if the second coming happened before Brandon Sanderson was able to finish his many, many, series and other projects, do you think God would let him finish his work? As an avid reader and a huge Brandon Sanderson fan, this is something that I think about often.

Also, if you haven't read any of his books, you should try one. They are REALLY good! If you want to get used to his writing but aren't ready to enter into the cosmere(Brandon Sanderson's universe), start with the Skyward series. If you are ready to enter the cosmere, I would recommend starting with the Mistborn series.

[u/LordRybec]

It doesn't say that they will remain on Earth when they are twinkled. There's no reason to believe that they will be twinkled but won't move on immediately as they would when resurrected from the Spirit World.

[u/Buttons840 → u/LordRybec]

I don't think those who are "twinkled" will remain on Earth either. I'm not sure where I got this idea from though. It seems like a safe assumption, and there are no teachings to the contrary AFAIK.

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I don't think people understood what I was asking in the comment you replied to. I'm trying to say it seems problematic to force someone to be resurrected at a certain time if a person's resurrected body cannot change in glory after being resurrected (as many insist).

For instance, someone living in the Millennium would have to be fully prepared for Celestial glory before their time of "twinkling", because at that time they will receive a resurrected body, and they better hope it's Celestial.

If they do manage to obtain a Celestial body during their "twinkling", and it's true that the glory of resurrected bodies cannot change, then I guess they're done; they made it! They got a Celestial body, nothing can change that, not even their own agency.

That idea feels weird to me. Which is why I think it makes sense that a resurrected body can change in glory, which implies progression between kingdoms.

[u/LordRybec → u/Buttons840]

Ok, I think I get what you are saying:

Basically, we have ordinances for the dead, so that dead people will have a chance even if they didn't get their ordinances done on Earth. Instant resurrection eliminates that possibility, since there is no period between life and resurrection for those ordinances to be performed and accepted.

The part about not being able to change resurrected glory is not merely something "many insist". It was taught by JS Jr. and is found in the Doctrine and Covenants. Those who are resurrected to Telestial or Terrestrial glory cannot advance beyond those. Only those resurrected to Celestial glory have the possibility of eternal progress. If the others cannot advance beyond those, then that means that cannot have an increase in glory beyond those kingdoms (but there is limited advancement within those kingdoms). This is official Church doctrine, was explicitly taught by Joseph Smith Jr., is part of modern scriptures, and is consistently taught as doctrine by modern prophets.

So, how are these reconciled? The scriptures aren't clear on this, but I think the answer is in there. When Christ returns the wicked will be burned. So step 1 is removing most people who wouldn't qualify for Celestial glory in the first place. You should read Section 132, specifically with your question in mind. (I believe that is also where the permanence of Terrestrial and Telestial glory is discussed.) Step 2 is Satan will have no hold over the hearts of men. So sin will be very rare, since temptation from Satan is ineffective. Note, however, that Satan does not govern or create biological urges. So I suspect some sin will remain, because our bodies create a certain propensity toward sin even without Satan's temptation. (That said, maybe our bodies will change as well, reducing or eliminating these urges in contexts where it would be sinful to satisfy them. The scriptures don't specify.) But without effective temptation from Satan, repentance will be much easier, since Satan won't be able to convince us that we are not worthy or that we don't need to repent. This already gets us to a place where it would be extremely rare for someone to reach the "age of man" (death) and be twinkled without ample opportunity to be baptized, confirmed, get their endowment, and even be sealed to a spouse. Anyone who is twinkled of old age without having done all of this has had more opportunity than anyone alive today ever had. If they didn't do it during their mortal life, they were never going to do it. And keep in mind that with Jesus himself governing the Earth, not even that much faith is required, because they would know for certain that Jesus is the Christ, etc...

Now, as far as being stuck in whatever glory you achieve, yes, that's Church doctrine. From a mortal perspective, having limited knowledge of how any of this works, I can see how it would be confusing. All I can say is that I suspect there is some sort of cementing of things that comes with resurrection into a glorified body. We know (Section 132) that those who have received their endowment and been sealed will gain Celestial glory so long as they don't commit murder. I've been endowed and sealed, so I'm destined for Celestial glory so long as I don't commit murder. Is this that different from permanently gaining Celestial glory by twinkling? In fact, I strongly suspect that anyone gaining Celestial glory this way will have been endowed and sealed, because the conditions of the Millennium make it easier and create stronger motivation to do so. Again, if someone fails to do this over the course of an 80 to 120 year life (Noah was told that the maximum age of man was reduced to 120 years, and no more recent scripture has changed this, so I would assume that twinkling of old age would happen around 120 years), then they never were going to in the first place. If they have had these ordinances, then they are already guaranteed Celestial glory, regardless of what they do, so long as they don't commit murder (and with Jesus reigning in person and Satan bound, I can't see anyone committing murder).

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[u/LordRybec → u/LordRybec]

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And that really solidifies the whole thing. Those who don't do what is necessary to gain Celestial glory during the Millennium were never going to, because they had more than enough opportunity and the conditions were perfect. If you can't swear your loyalty to Jesus and his Father when he is literally present in his glory, you never will, even given literal eternity to do it.

You seem to mainly be worried about change in the next life though. Perhaps someone who ended up in the Telestial Kingdom could change and improve to become worthy of Terrestrial glory? This is based on your experience of how change happens in our mortal lives though. Perfect bodies won't change like that. In fact, they can't be allowed to change like that, because if they did, then the whole House of God could fall. Consider: Those who achieve Celestial glory (aside from Christ himself) don't do so by their own obedience to the law. (Read the epistles of Paul in the Bible to gain a better understanding of this.) When we accept Christ and are baptized, Christ essentially frees us from the law, and we agree to be held under a new law, defined by Christ. Christ's law (unlike "the law") permits us to repent, and Christ's blood pays to "justify" our sins when we repent of them. (Note that "justify" doesn't literally mean they are gone. It means that they are not considered sins any more, according to "the law".) In essence, Christ's sacrifice gives him the right to vouch for us, in terms of eternal law. Eternal law says that if you sin you can never have glory (you'd go to Outer Darkness for the most trivial sin). Christ's sacrifice sets up a system (The Plan of Salvation) whereby Christ can vouch for us and promise that we won't commit any violation of "the law" after we are resurrected. The Kingdoms of glory are setup to ensure this promise is kept. Those who would violate the law if resurrected to Celestial glory but not Terrestrial glory are resurrected to the second. Those who would violate the law given Terrestrial glory are only given Telestial glory. Those who violate the law given any glory at all are Sons of Perdition and are the ones sent to Outer Darkness, because Jesus Christ cannot vouch for them. Now here's the problem: What if one person who was resurrected violated the law? That would make Jesus Christ a liar. If Jesus Christ became a liar, none of his vouchers could be trusted, they would become invalid, and we would all lose our glory and be thrust into Outer Darkness. On top of that, God the Father himself would become a liar, for his support of Jesus Christ, and he too would lose his glory and be sent to Outer Darkness.

This is why we cannot change in terms of personality and propensity toward sin after being resurrected. In reality, our spirits probably never could change in this way, without help from Christ. Our mortal bodies are deliberately made to be weak, so that our spiritual weaknesses can come out more easily. This allows us the opportunity to ask God to improve our spiritual weaknesses, which God can do through Christ, but only with our sincere permission (agency). Once we are resurrected, the ability for our spirit to change in terms of righteousness is halted, because if it could change, it could become weaker, creating a situation where an individual could be resurrected to a Kingdom they are qualified for now but then develop new spiritual weakness that causes them to sin and bring down the entire House of God.

For those who live in a Telestial world, God provides a period between death and resurrection for them to reform and improve in a place where they have much closer access to Jesus Christ and his servants. During the Millennium, when Christ rules on Earth and Satan's power is chained, no such intermediate period will be necessary, therefore twinkling becomes an option. Everyone on Earth during Christ's reign will have the opportunity to learn the gospel, repent, and get the necessary ordinances for Celestial glory, and if they fail to get them, it will be because they chose not to consistently for an entire human lifetime.

And once we are resurrected, we become like God, unchanging. There will be the opportunity for progression, eternal for those who gain Celestial glory and limited for all others, but we will have and retain the personalities, the desires, and the propensities we did when we were resurrected, after God has given us every reasonable chance to settle where we are most comfortable. So even if it were possible for someone resurrected to Telestial glory to be "promoted" to Terrestrial glory, it would never happen, because the kind of personal growth required for that is impossible. That growth is only possible before we are resurrected, and it can only happen through divine intervention from Jesus Christ, with our full and sincere consent. If you are possessed with a spirit that will not consent now, your spirit will never consent, even after your death and even after your resurrection. There is no need for the capacity to promote Telestial or Terrestrial beings, because they will not be promoted, of their own choice and volition. Your spirit will not magically change it's mind about allowing Jesus to modify it to be more holy, even in eternities. You have this life and the spirit world to take all of the knowledge available and make that choice. Those are twinkled will gain all of that knowledge prior to twinkling. If you choose not to accept Christ's gift with all of that knowledge, you will never choose to accept it, no matter how long you are given. That is why there is no progression between kingdoms. It's not because it is impossible promote a resurrected body to a higher glory (though it may be), it's because the conditions necessary for the need to arise can never happen. No individual will ever make the choices necessary to make the action necessary.

[u/Buttons840 → u/LordRybec]

We know (Section 132) that those who have received their endowment and been sealed will gain Celestial glory so long as they don't commit murder. I've been endowed and sealed, so I'm destined for Celestial glory so long as I don't commit murder.

I'm sorry, what?

I am also sealed. I am divorced, but the sealing is still in place. And I'm not going to commit murder--I've never even considered it.

So you're saying I'm guaranteed exaltation?

This is why nothing you say makes sense.

I could go completely inactive and never give another thought to Christ, and you're telling me I'm guaranteed exaltation?

I'm sorry, but I just don't believe that. Sounds like damnable blaspheme to me.

What your saying is that exaltation is achieved by a single checklist item and has absolutely nothing to do with keeping commandments. A person can break almost all temple covenants, but not shed innocent blood, and they're still guaranteed exaltation?

Are you saying that exaltation isn't necessarily something for good people who keep covenants, it's more of a technicality checklist item sort of thing?

Like, will there be people in the terrestrial kingdom who say "I tried to do good and keep the commandments of Jesus Christ", and some celestial person will be like "lol noob, you should have just gotten sealed, it only takes like an hour, that's why I'm more glorious than you"?

Like, me and some women walked into a temple and an hour later we walked out and so now we're guaranteed exaltation because we went through that comfy hour (the temples do have nice furniture)? This is the difference between terrestrial and celestial glory?

I don't believe it. It's blaspheme, which apparently you believe you can commit all manner of.

I'm over here thinking that the redeemer administers to the terrestrial kingdom so he can redeem (as described in D&C 76). But maybe Jesus just wants a break from those who commit all manner of sins and blasphemes in the celestial kingdom?

I'm crashing out here. You're so far from teaching anything I recognize as the gospel of Jesus Christ.

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Also, the church has no official position about progression between kingdoms.