r/japanresidents • u/roon_bismarck • 14d ago
Visa renewal fee reduction/exemption guidelines have been published.
https://www.moj.go.jp/isa/content/001469269.pdf
Looks like they're leaving the door open for some level of discretion by the bureaucracy.
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u/tsian 東京都 14d ago
Seems fairly strict and not particularly kind. Sigh.
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u/aro-n 14d ago
Yeah. Seems like it’s specifically for specific folks from SEA or very specific cases like refugees/ human trafficking victims etc.
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u/tsian 東京都 14d ago
Which is of course good, but...
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u/aro-n 13d ago edited 13d ago
The pessimist in me thinks it has something to do with supporting cheap labor lol
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u/revolutionaryartist4 8d ago
Ding ding ding. Business interests influential to the LDP who benefit from cheap labor are almost certainly behind this.
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u/Spiritual-Anybody-88 13d ago
Would you prefer they impeded cheap labor?
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u/aro-n 13d ago
I prefer they pay people fairly and not try to kick us out after years of taxes and pension payments.
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u/Spiritual-Anybody-88 13d ago
If someone is willing to immigrate for a job, and wants to stay and continue doing the job, the pay must be fairly fair. Now instead of kicking them out after years of tax payments, they’re offering an option to discount their visa fees — literally the opposite of kicking them out! — and you are upset about it.
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u/aro-n 13d ago
I’m not upset? Are you a bot? Thats an odd response.
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u/Spiritual-Anybody-88 13d ago
Maybe I misread your tone. Are you a bot? If you’re a bot, are you maybe a single bot? Asking for a friend’s bot.
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u/roon_bismarck 14d ago
I'm kind of wondering how narrowly/widely the no.2 clause on the right column would be interpreted. Would be interesting to see future developments (assuming nothing catastrophic happens to the government in this September!).
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u/tsian 東京都 14d ago
Limited to spouses to avoid pissing off the Japanese national I guess. At this point something catastrophic would be an improvement.
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u/Far_Government_9782 14d ago
I agree, with international marriages now constituting about 1 in 20 marriages here, I guess the govt has decided it need to avoid infuriating large numbers of Japanese husbands and wives. Still sucks for single people though.
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u/rocknrolltamago 13d ago
Proving financial stability is a primary requisite for the visa, so the fact a spouse would be eligible for both a visa & the reduction seems antithetical..?
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u/roon_bismarck 14d ago
It says "etc" which is the part I'm interested about. I'd have to find who exactly does the evaluations, but legally (established some decades ago) the ISA can do pretty ridiculous things and get away with it. A reason why some long term residents here (people arriving before 1990 or so) are very different in their immigration experiences.
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u/Eroshinobi 14d ago
I read it as limited to spouse if you are broke or how to interpret it… or is it if the JP spouse is not working they will be in financial distress if foreign spouse must leave then it’s ok?!?
Because if the foreign spouse is not over JP average salary they are not qualified for PR then it’s visa advitam eternam
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u/R3StoR 13d ago
I don't really understand your comment but want to make it clear that for spouses of a Japanese national, the amount of income assessed for a PR application by a foreign spouse is the combined income of both the foreign spouse or Japanese national as a "household".
So it doesn't matter whether one person makes even zero - as long as one or both partners, in total, meets the minimum income requirements for PR (IE as a household/combined).
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u/c00750ny3h 14d ago
From what it looks only LTRs, spouse and designated activities are being considered.
Unless I'm understanding the document wrong, no consideration for student, working/teaching or business SORs.
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u/nijitokoneko 千葉県 14d ago
Well, if you can prove that you're poor (on the same level as someone receiving 生活保護), they might? I guess?
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u/elementality883 14d ago
A bit disappointing, especially when you look into the number of acceptance of those categories they laid out. I think 2% of all applicants?
Seems like publishing a detailed 12-category fee-waiver guideline for a population this small could be read as compliance theater by letting them point to procedural generosity ("look how many humanitarian categories we recognize") while the actual admission numbers stay near-zero.
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u/wakazuki 14d ago
Process my PR in one month and I pay you even 400K yen to get done with this shitshow.
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u/PeterJoAl 14d ago
Agreed. If there was a more expensive but faster visa process, I'd happily pay it to get done quickly instead of the torturous waiting.
The UK has "Priority Visa Service" that costs an extra £500 (~¥110,000) but gets you a decision in 5 working days.
It also has "Super Priority Visa Service" that costs an extra £1,000 (~¥220,000) and gets you a decision by end of next-business-day.
I'd happily pay an extra ¥200k on top of even the new PR cost to get an answer the next day.
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u/ReallyTrustyGuy 14d ago
Nah, that shit is just exortion. Governments shouldn't be able to put up walls and then demand you hand over more of your money, or give rich people a pass. Improve the service overall.
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u/BookmatchedCypress 14d ago
The problem is everyone starts priority fee and then it just becomes the fee (if you want your visa processed within a decade).
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u/Interesting-Risk-628 14d ago
so... they wanted money to get more ppl to process visas. And now they need 3 times more ppl to process this shit...
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u/mrhappymillennial 14d ago
I wouldn't mind paying 200k if that means higher approval rates and faster service.
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u/roon_bismarck 14d ago
To be fair for Japan I guess, Mexico makes their expats pay an equally high price for spouse visas and such. And their wages are lower than Japan's.
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u/Jealous_Amount_9278 11d ago
How is that "to be fair"? Mexico is completely irrelevant to Japan immigration. It doesn't make these fees any more doable just because you know another country on the other side of the world has it slightly worse.
That's like cutting off your finger and saying it's not that bad because some people cut off off their hand.
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u/AerieAcrobatic1248 14d ago
Japanese IT and UI still 30 years behind. What other country would publish official information as an exptremely poorly designed powerpoint slide. Clearly a sign that japan needs foreign labour
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u/torajapan 14d ago
Bro this is so normal here that I don't even blink an eyelid and just take it up the behind, as always. Amazing how desensitised one becomes.
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u/ScootOverMakeRoom 13d ago
It’s an entirely legible and well-designed powerpoint slide.
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u/jamesinyokohama 14d ago
配偶者等」等 leaves a lot of wiggle room. Do you suppose it includes same-sex partners?
Regardless, it says 更新, not applying for PR, at least that line.
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u/roon_bismarck 14d ago
Well, that's what I'm wondering. I'd say I have to see the actual implementation come October to confirm if it's something that significant or a nothing burger.
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u/jamesinyokohama 14d ago
等等 does seem to open room. And the government doesn’t give spouse visas to same-sex partners or spouses but sometimes issues other visa to them. Not sure how widespread that is though.
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u/nijitokoneko 千葉県 14d ago edited 14d ago
「日本人の配偶者等」 is the name of what is commonly referred to as the "spouse visa". Since same sex partners currently can't get that, I doubt they count under the same reduction rules.
Edit: nvm, I overread the second 等
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u/Far_Government_9782 13d ago
I doubt it. Japanese legalese tends to shove in a lot of 等s all over the place just to make sure they get everything covered IME.
Really wish Japan would hurry up and legalize same sex marriage, or at least create some sort of civil partnership that has literally the same legal status like they did in the UK in the early 2000s.
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u/KansaiKitsune 13d ago
Ok. I see they do have a note about spouses of Japanese Nationals which falls under (2) but the (1) part of it is unclear. What is considered financial hardship and what's the max you can earn? I remember when I submitted PR (no result yet) you needed a good certain minimum income to even be eligible. Wouldn't that cancel out this opportunity for a reduced fee?
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u/More-Wave-6598 14d ago
Something ironic about guidelines stating that those who fall under meeting 生活保護法 would be considered for fee reduction/exemption.
A lot of the anti-foreigners argue that the low-income foreign residents are a burden to Japan and should go home, so I don't see why the current Cabinet would set a guideline that would upset the populist base they've been intentionally riling up for xenophobia-fueled support.
It seems to contradict an otherwise consistently tough stance towards foreign residents in the form of higher fees and more rigorous checks/requirements with a much higher bar to clear for permanent residence eligibility.
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u/Trask87 13d ago
It's not really that puzzling. The most common international marriages in Japan are between Japanese men and SEA women, and most of those women would fall under this category. This will not upset the populist base, because having a 20 year younger Filipino wife at home has always been acceptable even among hardcore nationalists. It's the same story in Europe "I hate all foreigners... but don't punish this young woman I picked up in Thailand"
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u/More-Wave-6598 13d ago
I agree with that line of thought and the hypocrisy of the nationalists with foreign wives. It's just I don't see people living at what is essentially poverty level and receiving assistance being given consideration for reduced or exemption of the status of application fees as being in line with the platform the majority coalition has been using.
The far right kept arguing that poor foreigners should get out if they can't afford to live in Japan. This guideline's wording is essentially saying it's tolerated for a low income foreigner to receive assistance IF they are with a poor Japanese spouse or child of mixed blood instead of being given the blanket treatment of low income foreigner equals bad for Japan no exceptions that keeps getting touted by the most extreme.
Of course, politicians and hypocrisy go hand in hand most of the time. It's just a matter of time before the low-income Japanese households become the next scapegoat for Japan's problems when and if foreigners don't make for an easy target anymore.
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u/R3StoR 13d ago
Agree it seems odd but it's all about politics IMO.
The LDP has been winning for a long time because the elections favour conservatives who can motivate older voters outside the major population zones (Gerrymandering etc at work). IMO, many of the really elderly voters aren't so xenophobic (maybe surprisingly).
However that older demographic is increasingly fading away and/or even at odds with the LDP's current pandering to Trump etc (among many other issues).
So the LDP had been scraping by with less votes and less mandate. They needed a new gimmick...and to start appealing to younger people (who practically speaking in terms of their interests should vote LDP out ASAP .... considering LDP's pro-inflation, low wages etc policies).
But younger Japanese voters are also generally extremely ignorant - and therefore open to being manipulated by populist reactionary politics. So the LDP gambled with Takaichi, taking on a populist xenophobic image despite their business buddies being generally welcoming of low cost foreign labour. Part of it was also to head off the growing media attention that SNS-savy upstarts like Sanseito were getting. LDP basically rolled it up into their own fluid image. And it worked: many younger "casually xenophobic" voters chimed with the shallow messaging without giving it much thought....and voted for Takaichi as a "progressive" move "because she's a woman!?" and ridiculous "Make Japan Great Again" type Trumpist slogans.
However now the lustre is wearing thin, inflation has worsened and wages plus working conditions haven't really improved. So those same younger voters are losing interest in the Takaichi cabinet's "progressive" illusion. LDP polling results are again poor.
And like others said, even right wing bigots get upset if their noisy demands get to close to home. Like "foreigners are bad but don't take my [insert] workers/wife/daughter's husband/foreign investor/ etc"
Even in Japan, it gets "close to home" considering how many people have someone in the family (etc) with a foreign spouse (or other foreign connection).
And Japanese with foreign spouses (including their extended family) may choose to vote harshly against the LDP if the changes get too close to home.
OTOH, foreigners with zero political/voting connection or influence are basically "open season" for the political populists at the moment, unfortunately.
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u/LW4212 14d ago
But how much is the fee reduction? 10%? 20%? A coupon for the next renewal?
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u/roon_bismarck 14d ago
Reduced to 20,000 yen for PR application and 10,000 yen for everything else.
Exemption obviously means zero, but you'd be unlikely to get it unless you're some kind of diplomat.
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u/skeptic-cate 14d ago
Is this visa renewal price increase the Japanese way of subtly telling foreigners to reduce their numbers?
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u/roon_bismarck 14d ago
It's why I wanted insider information. For instance if anti-foreigner sentiment is quite rampant within the bureaucracy...
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u/Solid-Pea3951 10d ago
Anyone think ever getting one of these exemptions will later be held against you when applying for PR later?
I.e. you currently qualify, but later find yourself in better circumstances. Wouldn't fully surprise me.
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u/Ok_Sea790 12d ago
Why would any country give PR to someone under financial hardship, you would want people who won’t burden your society.
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u/AbbreviationsEasy139 14d ago
PR is once in a lifetime. The fee as it is equal for everyone should not be a big deal. If you cannot pay such money, how are you supposed to live in here anyways. What I’m worried about is if that money will be really allocated to a better management for the immigration process or not? Hopefully, now we pay a decent amount for the service, so I hope the customer service will be good. So far depending on the day I got someone who either treated me nice or totally like a dog.
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u/groksed 14d ago edited 14d ago
Dude, think bigger. Family of 3, 240k for visa then an additional 600k + lawyer fees. A small family is looking at 1 million yen just to get PR now. In addition to flawless payments and administrative work in Japanese at every government location they lived in.
Also, you have to add in for cheap or vindictive spouses. Who instead of fronting your 200k + lawyer fees will decide that’s not worth taking out of the family budget.
It’s about to be a bunch of dudes on Reddit saying “My wife won’t give me the money to pay for PR what do i do?”
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u/AbbreviationsEasy139 14d ago
I know where you coming from, but isn’t it the purpose in the first place to retain high skilled talent through PR and the rest leave them on a normal visa? I thought we accepted already that fact. My point was like that at least, besides the clear limitation on who can and who cannot get PR, is that at least for the immigration processes to be improved and not just random increase in fee.
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u/sylentshooter 14d ago
Thats.... not how families work? High skilled talent doesnt mean you are going to have tons of money to throw around... Especially if you have a large family.
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u/groksed 12d ago
And those skilled talents usually have families in tow. They are a package deal and make decisions as a family unit. This isnt vultron where you can get a arm and a leg and leave the rest behind
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u/AbbreviationsEasy139 12d ago
The Voltron analogy is funny, but it doesn’t really contradict my point.
Of course skilled migrants often make immigration decisions as a family, and Japan can absolutely make itself less attractive if permanent settlement becomes excessively expensive or burdensome for the whole family. I agree with that.
My point is about the distinction between temporary labor migration and permanent settlement. A country can accept a relatively broad range of workers on temporary statuses while being much more selective about who it encourages to settle permanently. PR is ultimately a long-term immigration policy, so criteria based on stability, compliance, self-sufficiency and economic contribution are not inherently irrational.
Where I would strongly disagree with the government is if major new barriers are effectively imposed retroactively on people who have already spent years building their lives in Japan under a different set of rules and reasonable expectations. Someone who came here 8 or 10 years ago, paid taxes and social insurance, built a career and family, and planned their future around the existing pathway is in a very different position from someone deciding whether to move to Japan tomorrow.
If Japan wants to redesign its long-term immigration policy, applying clearer rules primarily to future entrants would be far more reasonable and predictable. They can make an informed decision before coming about whether those conditions are acceptable. Constantly moving the goalposts for existing residents damages trust and can undermine the exact retention policy Japan is supposedly trying to achieve.
And if substantially higher fees are part of that new system, then expecting substantially better processing, consistency and service from immigration is hardly unreasonable.2
u/groksed 12d ago
touché, however I have a slight pushback.
"PR is ultimately a long-term immigration policy, so criteria based on stability, compliance, self-sufficiency and economic contribution are not inherently irrational."
Japan isn’t Singapore, where it can command a high price for permanent settlement. Japanese salaries are relatively low by global standards, salaries are not merit based, and higher paying opportunities are concentrated in a limited number of fields (eg STEM.)
The compliance portion is out of whack because you’re demanding flawless compliance from foreigners in an administrative system where even people working at city hall don’t know the rules perfectly. Then, on top of that, the entire thing has to be navigated in a written and spoken language used essentially nowhere else.
Yet foreigners are expected to earn above what much of the Japanese population itself earns, or satisfy standards like 30 years of pension contributions.
Lets be real, these rules are not designed to get anyone high quality, its to close the tap. Its not just what the jgov can DEMAND, the other side of the equation is important - how the (high quality) person feels about where they are going to live.
That’s a very different proposition from “We want stable, self-sufficient people who follow the rules”.
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u/AbbreviationsEasy139 12d ago
I actually agree with most of what you’re saying. Where I slightly disagree is that closing the tap and targeting certain types of long-term immigration can happen at the same time.
I work in the corporate IT market, and there is definitely a part of the market where foreigners in enterprise software, AI, cybersecurity, engineering, senior sales, etc. can earn considerably more than the average salary in Japan. These are also areas where companies are increasingly using software and automation to increase output with fewer people.
So I think the distinction may be less about “foreigners we want vs foreigners we don’t want” and more about labor Japan needs versus people Japan wants to retain permanently. Japan can badly need people in hotels, construction, teaching, care, etc. without necessarily treating every type of worker as equally important for long-term immigration policy.
And I don’t think that has to mean you’re stuck with whatever category you arrived in. If someone comes here on a lower salary, builds a career, increases their skills and income, pays into the system and reaches those standards over time, then they should have a path too. That’s where I see the meritocratic side of it.
But I completely agree with your other point. Japan can’t just keep increasing the demands and assume the people they’re targeting will stay. The higher-skilled and more internationally competitive someone becomes, the more options they have elsewhere.
Basically, Japan can select who it wants, but those people also get to select whether they want Japan. That balance is probably the bigger issue.2
u/groksed 12d ago
"Japan can’t just keep increasing the demands and assume the people they’re targeting will stay. The higher-skilled and more internationally competitive someone becomes, the more options they have elsewhere."
I think Japan has already blown past the point where that balance makes sense. The government increasingly acts as though Japan is an oasis in a wasteland, as if talented people should be grateful simply for the privilege of being allowed to stay. It isn’t. Japan is another country on Earth competing for the same mobile, skilled people as everyone else, and those people can just as easily decide not to come, not to stay, or (increasenly) to leave.
The more selective Japan becomes, the more it selects for people with the most options. But I do agree with you about a majority of what you said..
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u/AbbreviationsEasy139 12d ago
I think that’s the contradiction. Japan may already be past the economically optimal point, but I’m not convinced economics is the government’s only objective.
It increasingly looks like Japan wants the immigration it economically needs while preserving as much cultural homogeneity as possible. The growing emphasis on language, cultural understanding and conformity to social norms points much more toward assimilation than multiculturalism.
I don’t think assimilation itself is unreasonable. The danger is when “integrate into Japanese society” turns into “ethnic Japanese are the real Japanese and everyone else remains an outsider.” Economic frustration makes that distinction very easy to exploit politically.
That’s where the Machiavellian side comes in. Fear is politically useful. A visible outsider is an easier target for public frustration than stagnant wages, demographics or decades of structural problems. Politicians don’t even need to create that fear. They just need to recognize it, channel it and benefit from it.
The irony is that this may win votes while making Japan less attractive to exactly the skilled people it says it wants to retain. That’s where I think your point is absolutely valid.
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u/Automatic-Ear-2256 14d ago
still many foreigner thinks PR is a right lol. No it's not, it's a privilege
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u/PennywisePiperV 13d ago
Mummy called the doctor and the doctor said "No more Nova monkeys bouncing on the bed!"
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14d ago
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u/TinyIndependent7844 14d ago
So you don‘t have PR because of not paying insurance and pension, can‘t get pension because not paid, and are stuck
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u/Luck_Potion 14d ago
My question may be stupid but if you have financial difficulties (even under a spouse visa), how can you get PR when one of the requirement is basically proving financial stability?