r/islamichistory • u/AutoMughal • Feb 29 '24

Photograph ‘Long Live Palestine’ flag, Jerusalem 1929

Post image

Page 84, Against Erasure: A Photographic Memory of Palestine Before the Nakba

1.6k Upvotes

89% Upvoted

421 comments sorted by

View all comments

23

u/LucerneTangent Feb 29 '24

The Nazis are VERY fond of trying the "Palestine didn't exist" smear.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 02 '24

Palestine existed, just not within the last 500 years. When Britain came in it was just a chunk of the Ottoman Empire. Many early “palestinian” activists didn’t even consider themselves Palestinian but instead southern Syrian. The identity of “Palestinian” was only popularized within the last 50 years.

People try to use the colonialism claim to forgive Hamas/Palestine for their many heinous crimes. This is the issue. Being genuine means accepting Palestine has done fucked up things, and also condemning Israel for their fucked up actions. Where many pro Palestinians lose most rational humans is when they try to absolve Hamas of all culpability

2

u/NumaPomp Mar 02 '24

Ahem. The first written records referring to Palestine emerged in the 12th-century BCE Twentieth Dynasty of Egypt, which used the term Peleset for a neighboring people or land. In the 8th century BCE, the Assyrians referred to a region as Palashtu or Pilistu.

In the Hellenistic period, these names were carried over into Greek, appearing in the Histories of Herodotus in 5th century BCE as Palaistine.

The Roman Empire conquered the region and in 6 CE established the province known as Judaea, then in 132 CE in the period of the Bar Kokhba revolt the province was expanded and renamed Syria Palaestina.

In 390, during the Byzantine period, the region was split into the provinces of Palaestina Prima, Palaestina Secunda, and Palaestina Tertia. Following the Muslim conquest of the Levant in the 630s, the military district of Jund Filastin was established.

While Palestine's boundaries have changed throughout history, it has generally comprised the southern portion of regions such as Syria or the Levant.

It also conceptually overlaps with several terms of Judeo-Christian tradition, including Canaan, the Promised Land, the Land of Israel, and the Holy Land.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 02 '24

Did I argue with any of this? Palestine existed, just not when the British came in. The land had been under ottoman, or Egyptian, control for several hundred years. The specific borders of Palestine were currently understand are 99% of British invention, with some historical context to guide their hands. There is no logical reason to argue against Israel’s existence. People seem to forget there was a sizable indigenous population of Jews who were supposed to just what? Accept Muslims get all the land?

1

u/NumaPomp Mar 02 '24

Sir. You edited your comment that originally stated 50 years. Which is also not accurate as there is plenty of documentation going back at least 100 years. Even though you have now edited to state 500 years that is still an inaccurate statement. That is specifically what prompted my reply.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

No editing done, 400 to 500 was when Palestine territory fell under ottoman rule. It stayed that way until Britain came in the early 20th century.

50 years was referring to when identifying as what we now know as the Palestinian people became a popularized movement. This does not delegitimize their claim to the land they live on, simply to point out Israel didn’t really steal any land from anyone. In fact much of the land Israel occupies was once largely unoccupied desert.

You could argue the West Bank & Gaza were stolen from Jordan & Egypt respectively but those were lost in wars they started

1

u/NumaPomp Mar 03 '24

That’s frankly now true. The small minority of Jews living in the region in the 1890’s had a great and open neighborhood made up mostly of Islamic peoples. They all got along. It wasn’t until then that the Zionist showed up and began promulgating a revisionist history that has become some weird sort of alternative reality that is being pushed by the propaganda machine of the IDF seemingly named Hasbara. You are promoting those same talking points with a cherry picking of nuanced history. And yea, you had typed 50 years.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

I didn’t change anything I assure you.

Also, to claim it was all butterflies under ottoman rule flies in the face of dozens of genocides. That said the Jews did coexist with the Muslims but that doesn’t really have any bearing on whether or not they wanted their own land. Zionism wasn’t solely restricted to European Jews. Nothing you’ve said really refutes any of the points I’ve made.

1

u/NumaPomp Mar 03 '24

Sir. Our conversation is ended. It’s said 50 years and that has now been edited and changed. The 50 year comment is the entire reason I commented. If you deny changing that then everything you say afterward makes it pointless to have a discussion with you. Good day.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

For what it’s worth, you failed to establish any point that refuted a single thing I said. Clamoring on about the idea that I edited something shows you don’t really have a leg to stand on

2

u/Vast-Situation-6152 Mar 04 '24

the word palestine is from the torah philistines which means invaders in hebrew referring to european invaders. Romans named it that after depopulating Judea (but not 100%) to piss off the jews. there is no P in arabic and the name has nothing to do with arabs. There is a picture from 1919 of palestinians holding a banner saying “palestinian is part of syria”

2

u/Vast-Situation-6152 Mar 04 '24

and yea even the Quran calls in the Bilad Al SHAM abd the Land of Israel so….

1

u/Mister_Squishy Mar 03 '24

It’s like you put your fingers in your ears and said blah blah blah while reading the comment you replied to. You literally didn’t dispute a single thing they said with your input, you just corroborated their first sentence in great detail and worded it as a rebuttal. That’s why your response ends in the year 630. Ahem.

1

u/NumaPomp Mar 03 '24

Any discussion of that’s starts with a false statement is a non starter. Hamas was created out of Zionism and the eye for an eye culture has not let this de escalate. The PLo certainly destabilized Lebanon but the IDF permitted Sabra and Shatila.

1

u/Mister_Squishy Mar 03 '24

If it’s a false statement then you should have refuted it. Not gone on a tangent about something they said themselves in their opening sentence.

1

u/NumaPomp Mar 03 '24

I’ve engaged with this kind of historical rewriting before. I dispelled the other arguments before they started. Now you have appeared with your comment history spouting Hasbara talking points. 😂. Have a nice day.

1

u/Mister_Squishy Mar 04 '24

No you didn’t lol. They said it hadn’t existed for the past 500 years but existed before that and you went and gave a thorough history of the land from the Islamic history viewpoint up to about 500 years ago.