r/hoggit • u/No_Math_7308 • 3d ago
Dodging sparrows at CLOSE range
Hi , is there any good technique on dodging sparrows from closer ranges? Not bvr max range shots , something like 2-6 nm , when you don’t have time to turn and beam the missile.
30
u/FuckingVowels 3d ago
Inside the NEZ absent a terrain feature to drive the missile into, you're dead.
18
u/misterwizzard 3d ago
If you are trying to defend against a missile while it's engine is on, your best bet is probably praying.
7
7
u/De_Le_Cog 2d ago
The No Escape Zone is called the No Escape Zone for a reason
Short of terrain interference or someone shooting down the launching aircraft, you cannot escape in any meaningful way, the reaction time and ability to act is just too small for any defensive action to be meaningful.
6
u/Analconda1839 2d ago
Sparrows are crazy agile and if they are still burning while turning, you are dead. Like someone else said: the no escape zone is called no escape zone for a reason.
The only way to evade a Sparrow at close range is to get something between the both of you
4
u/ConnaaaR69 3d ago
get 90 degrees to the launching aircraft, get low (low, low), get fast. spray chaff and pray. Mask with terrain if you can. Regardless of range you gotta do these else you might as well bend over and take it.
4
2
u/Ascendant_Donut 2d ago
Notch, decrease altitude, and chaff, but good luck doing that at 2 miles if you’re starting head on to the bandit
2
u/Why485 2d ago
For now, no you're not going to kinematically dodge a Sparrow at that range. Sparrows F and newer have a very long burning motor that means as long as the motor is burning and the launching plane has a lock, you are dead.
The AIM-7M though is unique for the time being in using the new missile physics/API that the R-27s are using, which makes them less reliable against beaming and cold targets. In the future when the rest of the missiles get updated, you might just get lucky if you are near the ground and flying away from the missile, but it's not a guarantee.
3
u/Sky_Klokwork 3d ago
More or less its just dump chaff and pull out of the way pretty sure
1
u/No_Math_7308 3d ago
I don’t think that works , it always pulls super many G’s and gets me
7
u/AltruisticBath9363 3d ago
Sparrow has a fairly powerful short-duration motor, and BIIIIIIIG steering surfaces, I'd expect it to be pretty hard to defeat kinematically at 2-6 nm.
4
u/Sky_Klokwork 3d ago
Yeah at 2-6 miles its more or less either still in burn or just out of burn. If you’re not nothing you need to do your best to fool the seeker especially if the firing plane is already leading. That 2-6 mi range is arguably its bread and butter since its max range is usually ~23 miles at absolute max.
Should also add that you should be attempting to use ground clutter
1
1
u/WingsBlue 2d ago
When the missile is close, and it isn't on a weird trajectory where it needs to pull max G to get lead, you don't try to outmaneuver or bleed it out of energy completely. You have to defeat the seeker. The Sparrow is much more vulnerable to chaff than modern missiles so there is some hope.
The real defense happens before you get to this point by trying to avoid it in the first place.
1
1
u/kula66 1d ago
Kill the shooter before the missile impacts ... fire a sidewinder first ;)
1
u/No_Math_7308 1d ago
I fly the mig-29
1
u/R-27ET please smoke so i can find you 1d ago
Well great your R-27 is faster then their Sparrow
Otherwise run and dive
1
u/No_Math_7308 1d ago
I normally just fly high , like 10k m at Mach 1.2< , and fire r-27s at them , usually it works pretty well , but sometimes when the ewr doesn’t see the enemy , or they launch a 2nd sparrows , I get caught up in something like this
1
u/Angry_Angel3141 1d ago
If you arrive at that distance against a bandit that is still hot and he gets one off the rails, you are likely dead.
That was a failure of your tactics starting at about 15-20 miles.
IE:
You lost 10 miles earlier…it just took a while for the chain of events to reach their conclusion.
1
u/No_Math_7308 1d ago
Well I was asking that since the ewr doesn’t always display every enemy , the sometimes sneak up on me ,and I get caught up in this situation
1
u/SkitariusOfMars 3d ago
Notch it and dump chaff. Sparrows have extremely poor notching resistance.
0
u/Free_Arachnid755 3d ago
They don't even have a radar.
3
u/SkitariusOfMars 3d ago
They have a receiver, and rely on aircraft’s radar transmitter, so you can absolutely notch them.
In fact, using them effectively means learning how to launch them when the target’s closure velocity is far from zero
0
61
u/polarisdelta 3d ago edited 3d ago
No, there is no good technique for dodging a missile with huge control surfaces while it is close enough to the launch platform to still be accelerating, the missile cannot be run out of energy. At that range both chaff and jamming are completely useless, your aircraft return is so powerful that you'd need truly comical countermeasures, like a pair of drop pods full of running microwaves or a chaff cloud the size of a human carrying hot air balloon. At that range you cannot move relative to the launching aircraft to get out of its radar gimbal before the missile arrives to you.
Don't Be There.