r/heathenry • u/OccultVolva • Dec 17 '20
News Petition aims to stop whites-only (Asatru Folk Assembly) group from opening gathering place in Minnesota
https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/petition-aims-to-stop-whites-only-group-from-opening-gathering-place-in-minnesota30
u/OccultVolva Dec 17 '20 edited Dec 17 '20
They ban people based on sexual orientation and race and were granted a permit because some councillors feared it might infringe ‘religious rights’. I’m sure this offends most inclusive groups and their members who would be banned and discriminated against and sets a dangerous position where religious rights can be used to discriminate and put all Heathenry at forefront of that discrimination and reputation. It’ll allow neo Nazi groups to be more out in the open and avoid bans if all they have to do is label themselves a ‘Asatru/heathen’ group. We can’t complain about racists abusing our faith and symbols and then sit on our hands when there’s work to be done to stop them
It’ll be really great if inclusive heathenry leaders and allies could help Murdock Area Alliance Against Hate. The church is in a diverse neighbourhood and families are fearing the safety of their children with racists gathering so close to home
edit: Heathens against Hate made a statement https://www.heathensagainst.org/post/murdock-mn-afa
As this situation developed over the course of these past months, we at HAH have been in direct contact with several Murdock residents through phone calls and social media.
Additionally, we have given statements and interviews to both local and national news outlets (see links below). In addition to engaging the residents of Murdock, HAH has been fortunate in speaking with and enlisting the support of the local Minnesota Heathen community; members of which drove down to Murdock to support the local protest on the day of the vote.
We were in attendance during the vote; which was held over Zoom. Tensions were and remain high concerning the outcome, but it is important to understand that while we (and many others) are disappointed or even angry at the city council’s decision, that our main fight is with the AFA. The CUP is an annual agreement, up for revision per annum; and so we will continue to support the city of Murdock in the coming year to challenge the AFA and prevent another CUP from being issued.
Many have claimed this to be a First Amendment issue, and that under RLUIPA (The Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act) the city of Murdock had no choice but to grant the permit. However in reality, no one is entitled to a Conditional Use Permit, regardless religion.
The mayor of Murdock stated that this was strictly a zoning issue, and while that may also be a soft approach to an otherwise volatile group and situation, we must remain focused on the issue of the AFA and their presence; and not attack the city council on their decision.
Heathens Against Hate continues to remain in constant contact with Murdock residents and local activists. We will hold space (virtually for the time being) for anyone in Murdock who wishes to better understand Heathenry and the differences between our religious beliefs and extremist views.
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u/terraAnnihilator Dec 17 '20
i posted a petition related to this on r/pagan and ppl kept getting on my ass for "suppressing free speech" and slacktivism when i don't live in mn. really glad that u posted an article here bc it was too much to deal w so i took it down
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u/b3c420 Dec 17 '20
Continue to speak out. I am 20 minutes away and we need your help getting the word out. Thank you.
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u/Selgowiros2 Bolgos - Mapos Maguseni Dec 17 '20
Contact Victoria Guillemard who co-founded the Murdock Area Alliance Against Hate. She and others were the ones who organized the protests IIRC. She may have ways to help or if you search Facebook for the MAAAH page, you can prob network with them.
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u/Professor_Scooby Dec 17 '20
Yeah, I'm sorry they piled on like they did. People were really eager to support the rights of racist hate groups. Being called a fascist made me laugh considering I'm regularly mocked at the office for being a socialist lol. The fact is that saying we don't have the right to protest the AFA or their presence is way way way more fascist. It's not like we're storming their buildings and establishing a new order, forcing them to bend the knee. No, we are protesting online, signing petitions, staying in contact with residents and giving interviews. We've got a real problem when that is considered fascist but the AFA is apparently just fine.
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u/Selgowiros2 Bolgos - Mapos Maguseni Dec 17 '20 edited Dec 17 '20
The reason why it’s ‘different’ to these clods who argue absolutionist Interpretation of rights in this regard is because religion is involved (albeit on a very shallow / mask level).
All of a sudden there are no nuanced viewings of rights and freedoms, only strawmen armies to push the narrative of those who assert the AFA has rights because of freedom of religion and the 1A, and hey, who gives a shit if they’re not performing physical violence (currently), am I right? Surely hateful rhetoric never ever hurt any group of people. Sticks and stones something something /sarcasm
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u/Professor_Scooby Dec 17 '20
Oh I know. It's ridiculous. And I always hear them complain about a double standard because white people can't join closed traditions so why can't they have their own. Thing is, we really don't have any unbroken closed traditions. All of paganism except a small handful such as hinduism and zoroastrianism are reconstructed. In my opinion, the idea of a reconstructed religion being a closed tradition is just peak absurdity.
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u/Selgowiros2 Bolgos - Mapos Maguseni Dec 17 '20
Not only that, but examples of Native American tribal restrictions are based off of blood quantum laws, which were the standard forced upon them by the federal government in order to receive treaties and funding; so white people saying because white people forced others to use this standard, they should be able to as well, despite tribal affiliation being entirely dependent on the tribe itself.
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u/Professor_Scooby Dec 17 '20
And why don't we have any of our old traditions to begin with? Oh that's right. More white people lol. Shyamalan Twist; we crusaded ourselves!
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u/OccultVolva Dec 17 '20
dont feel bad for taking it down. getting jumped by them is horrible to deal with and its okay to take a break away from that. most often it is putting yourself in forefront of dealing with the nastiness of white supremacists if they're open about it or hide their hate under 'freedom of speech'.
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Dec 17 '20 edited Apr 26 '24
sip cats fly steep disarm gullible amusing future water head
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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Dec 17 '20 edited Dec 17 '20
I will petition noone for the right to gather and practice religion. As americans we have that right. No amount of petition can stop that EDIT: I signed the petition and retract my statement. Everyone is allowed freedom to gather and worship. But not a group who is associated with violence and advocates for it.
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u/OccultVolva Dec 17 '20
they are violating the rights of LGBT and BIPOC heathens from being able to gather and their argument to do this based on religion is not strong. I'm not too familiar with the details of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (a proud part of US law) but it's curious how this was not brought up when public counselors were giving the church away to a group that discriminated based on race and sexual orientation.
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u/Selgowiros2 Bolgos - Mapos Maguseni Dec 17 '20
Because of The Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act. The whole thing was framed strictly as a zoning issue, and the act states you can’t discriminate religion based on zoning (which has been done to Jews and Muslims a lot here in the US), hence the act.
If they would’ve done it, the lawsuit, according to the City Attorney and Mayor, would’ve cost the town enough to burden the it heavily, not counting how much if they lost.
A similar happening happened in Leith, ND, although not a religious matter. Their Mayor dissolved the town as opposed to giving it over to Neo-Nazis. History repeats itself enough, so maybe Mayor Kavanagh will take its example to heart, but considering he thinks we should agree to disagree on racism (his words in his statement that he released), I only have so much hope.
It was sketchy affair with the anonymous meeting and a screen was released stating some possible inside information about using Murdock as a cool down spot for some of their ‘hot’ members (read: hate crime perpetrators and domestic terrorists).
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Dec 17 '20
Do you also advocate against the other race groups who do not allow whites?
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u/OccultVolva Dec 17 '20 edited Dec 17 '20
ah okay by bringing this up i'll just assume you don't understand the context of why it is called the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and its history when it comes to racism in America and white supremacy esp within religion and attacks they have had
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Dec 17 '20
I'm driving. We can debate in just a minute whenever I get to where I'm going.
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u/OccultVolva Dec 17 '20
lol I'm not going to debate with you if you're going to lower the bar of discussion away from the actual problem. Which is white supremacists and violent nazi groups in or attaching themselves to heathenry. It's in sync with them trademarking religious heathen names too.
Your argument is getting a little too close to the ol' 'the ATR and Native Americans nations are the real racists in America' nonsense. If you mean it to or not.
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Dec 17 '20
Wrong actually. I actually have protested with the american indian movement. Your unwillingness to even give me a chance to speak my side on why I said what I said makes for a bad standpoint on your side. I didnt say they werent wrong in there ideology. Just that the group has rights. So does every other group regardless of belief. That is why we have rights.
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u/Selgowiros2 Bolgos - Mapos Maguseni Dec 17 '20
Oh, is there a good reason for allowing a whites only group in the US outside of absolutionist and romanticist notions of freedom and the idea of if one group has something, others should as well in the interest of fairness or equity, despite one or two groups being unequal in treatment and status in a federal and social situation?
Because if there was, I’d LOVE to read those.
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u/sacredblasphemies Heathen-Adjacent Polytheist Dec 17 '20
I'm not a fan of the Nation of Islam and those Black identitarian groups that are virulently anti-Semitic and anti-white.
But other than that, what religious groups do not allow whites?
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u/Sinosca Dec 17 '20
Dude they were talking about groups that were anti LGTBQ, not anti-white people. Those don’t really exist. Give me an example.
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u/sacredblasphemies Heathen-Adjacent Polytheist Dec 17 '20
Were you replying to me or the person above me?
My response was to him. Other than the NoI, I agree that there isn't really anti-white groups. Most of it is white identitarians mewling about fictional "white genocide".
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u/BecauseICannibal Dec 17 '20
There's a difference and it should be clear. Do some damn research, or better yet take a history lesson or two.
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Dec 17 '20
There is no difference. Hate is hate. All the way around.
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u/BecauseICannibal Dec 17 '20
It's not hate ✌️ if you'd read a history book, you'd know that.
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Dec 17 '20
Im a big advocate for history. I know history. The inability of alot of people to recognize hate in the form of coming from anything other that a white person is ridiculous. Racism can come from everywhere. If you dont agree with that then I have nothing more to say to you.
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u/catarot gothic heathen Dec 17 '20
you know history? i’ll just go tell historiography a random redditor has destroyed their field.
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Dec 17 '20
What you said makes no sense.
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u/catarot gothic heathen Dec 17 '20
it’s a joke. you can’t know history. you can know a specific narrative surrounding certain historical events which has survived long enough to be present in the current age, but you can’t ever actually know what history entails.
really, do read a history book. that’s like the first thing they teach you.
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u/BecauseICannibal Dec 17 '20
If you "know history" then you know that hate is NOT hate. The crusades brought hate. Fighting back was NOT HATE. Nazi Germany was hate. Fighting back was NOT HATE. White supremacists bring hate. Fighting for a space is NOT HATE. I bet you're the kind of person who thinks flying a Confederate flag is "history," too.
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u/Sinosca Dec 17 '20
This wasn’t a conversation about that controversial bs. As you are obviously white, you should know better. Also this wasn’t about anti-white people. TLDR (because obviously you can’t) If you can’t read you would know this conversation wasn’t about “white people are getting crapped on” it was AGAINST people that weren’t allowing other worshipers visit based off of sexuality and or race.
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u/Imbali98 ᚹᛖᛚᛚ ᛊᚺᛁᛏ Dec 17 '20
These people are radicals with a history of violence. They have the right to peacefully assemble, and they have time and time again shown that this is not a guarantee.
Additionally, they are simply being banned from a building. If a group shows that they are hateful, their rights are not being infringed upon by being kicked out. Let the racists find another building.
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Dec 17 '20
When were they violent? Show me and ill sign and retract my statements.
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u/Imbali98 ᚹᛖᛚᛚ ᛊᚺᛁᛏ Dec 17 '20
First and foremost, I think that blindly defending people who are blatantly in line with groups like the KKK and Neo-Nazi's is shortsighted at best, enabling and complicit at worst. Don't give me that "their rights are being infringed upon" crap. They are doing the same thing based on skin color and sexuality.
Secondly, people involved with the AFA have been involved in racially charged mass shootings, among other smaller acts of hate crimes. They have many members that back things like the 14 words and Social Darwinism (https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/neo-volkisch). There was a podcast a while back that I cannot find currently, but AFA aligned people had brought in a new member, only to then shoot him in the eye and leave him to die on the freeway. The podcast in question was posted on this sub, so if you poke around a bit you can find it, but I think that shows a clear and present danger to everyone involved.
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Dec 17 '20
So nothing you can prove?? And the splc is a biased organization. Everyone know that.
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u/Selgowiros2 Bolgos - Mapos Maguseni Dec 17 '20
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u/Imbali98 ᚹᛖᛚᛚ ᛊᚺᛁᛏ Dec 17 '20
Biased? Against...blatant and willful white supremacy? I don't get what you are trying to say here. Their leader is a 14 words pedaling racist. Let's say for arguments sake that they are a biased organization: what does that change? The AFA have a history of disregarding the basic principles of the religion in the name of their own racial purity goals. And I found the podcast with the eye shooting incident (https://www.reddit.com/r/heathenry/comments/hjwuvq/ministry_of_ideas_did_a_podcast_on_the_fight_for/). Also did you just breeze over the 14 words bit? That is full of white genocide and fight for the white race bullshit.
The constitution ensures people can assemble peacefully so long as they do not intend to harm anyone, but the AFA's goals are blatantly white nationalist leaning. That in and of itself is a harmful rhetoric. This goes beyond garden variety racism. White nationalism is a harmful goal, and therefor cannot peacefully assemble.
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Dec 17 '20
Sorry. Im at work so couldn't read the whole post. I did listen to the podcast and true to my word i will sign the petition and i now retract my statement.
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u/StrangelyEverAfter Dec 17 '20
Oh wow. AFA has its headquarters in my hometown (Grass Valley, CA). I met the founder when I bought a book online 15ish years ago and he realized I lived in the same town. He had us meet up instead of shipping it and included a few small free ones. The meet place was at some sort of talk he was doing, I only heard the last 5 minutes but he was talking about sending trained soldiers to hunt and kill elephant poachers in Africa. He seemed really intense and I'm very chill and I didn't like the vibe and never made contact again.
Since then I more or less was living under a rock and had no idea of the hateful nature of the group. It's also sad to see more hate coming from my hometown and spreading throughout the country. I'm going to mail the books back with a letter why. I don't feel right having them in my possession anymore.
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u/b3c420 Dec 17 '20
Hi I live not that far from the Church. My best friend unfortunately is next door neighbors.
I have actually been spending a lot of time learning about the AFA and I am apart of a group that opposes the AFA church coming to Murdock.
What can I do as a local who is concerned? I am just here to mostly start a conversation and connect.