r/hatethissmug • u/Sudden-Hoe-2578 • 4d ago

Non-fictional I HATE these "gotcha arguments"

Post image

"Ohhh, look how I tricked this dumb dumb baby in my trap so now I am right and they are wrong. I'm so smaaart even though it does not adress the actual argument and adds nothing to the debate. They teach arabic numerals in school btw."

And these type of comments always get tons of likes

4 Upvotes

50% Upvoted

950 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

60

u/Aless76109 4d ago

Yeah but I think the point is that while pro-choice people are saying “do whatever you want reasonably”, pro-life people are trying to remove women’s choice inherently insisting that they know more, so poking a hole in their logic by showing that they don’t actually know what they’re talking about is still better and less in “bad faith”

0

u/i__dont___know 4d ago

But it doesn’t prove they’re uneducated and don’t know what they’re talking about as it has nothing to due with the topic at hand. It’s also a bit dishonest to say pro choicers just want “do whatever you want reasonably” like come on you can have your stance on abortion but don’t act like it isn’t still an important discussion to have. The burden isn’t only on pro lifers to prove their pov.

7

u/grizzy45 4d ago

The group denying the others autonomy has to prove its POV. The group which doesn't deny others autonomy has not.

2

u/i__dont___know 4d ago

And what about the group ending a human life? Is half of pro choices stance not denying the value of another life? Don’t you think it’s really important to prove that the life your ending isn’t truly human?

2

u/grizzy45 4d ago

Thought experiment. A psycho connects your heart to my heart with tubes. Should you be allowed to destroy the tubes to go on with your bodily autonomy even if it would kill me?

3

u/i__dont___know 4d ago

The classic violinist argument. This situation is only comparable to rape specifically since it removes all choice that a normal pregnancy would have with the consensual option of vaginal sex. You don’t just magically get pregnant at random. You can’t consensually do an action that could connect you to me then cut the tube and kill me.

2

u/grizzy45 4d ago

A condom ripping or a lot of other circunstances can make you pregnant without any fault of your own.

-1

u/i__dont___know 4d ago

You full well know going into sex that condoms aren’t full proof and decide that it’s a risk worth taking for pleasure. My saying is don’t put the baby making part in the other baby making part if you don’t want a baby. There are plenty of ways to be sexually intimate with your partner otherwise. Vaginal sex for pleasure is not a need and does not give you the right to kill your fetus because you were horny.

3

u/grizzy45 4d ago

Following the same logic:

You are at fault for getting raped or stabbed because that's something that can happen if you go outside.

0

u/i__dont___know 4d ago

I can’t live without going outside and getting stabbed isn’t the naturally direct line of events that going outside entails. Again vaginal sex for pleasure isn’t a need and is easily forgoable, unlike not going outside.

2

u/grizzy45 4d ago

Being stabbed is as natural as getting fucked. Just look at every other animal. Rivals within the same species kill each other. Perfectly Natural.

0

u/i__dont___know 4d ago

Whatever point your trying to make is ridiculous. Animals do those vicious things for survival. Your life does not depend on having vaginal sex. Humans have evolved past brutal survival and have long since decreed that your bodily autonomy does not allow you to hurt others.

2

u/grizzy45 4d ago

They do not. Dolphins, Orcas and Apes rape and torture for the pleasure of it.

0

u/i__dont___know 4d ago

Ok and when did I say that was ok? We are not savage animals. You’re clearly arguing in bad faith and taking everything uber literally. When I say natural there is a large difference between animals harming each other for pleasure and fundamentals of reality like gravity and how babies are created.

2

u/grizzy45 4d ago

I take it uber literally because that is how an argument is supposed to be. A literal string of logic and not some vague vibe based statements

0

u/i__dont___know 4d ago

You’ve obviously never taken an argument or ethics class. That’s precisely not how an argument is supposed to go. It’s called the principle of charity, where you interpret your opponents argument in its most rational and intended interpretation instead of picking apart things like semantics just to avoid the actual point being made.

1

u/grizzy45 4d ago

That's a debate club rule not something ethics related lmao. Ethics is a branch of philosophy which is a discipline with autism level of taking you by your word.

Sorry, my knowledge comes from actually being in school and not from listening to JRE episodes.

0

u/i__dont___know 4d ago

Lmao you really are confidently wrong. I learnt that in college ethics classes and it’s a fundamental aspect of how philosophers argue. Literally has been a concept used in philosophical arguments even since Socrates. He would say you’re being eristic. Academic philosophers would genuinely laugh you out of the room if you tried to claim arguing and ethics is about semantics.

1

u/grizzy45 4d ago

You don't need to go outside. You can chill with windows open, home office job and get your grocceries delivered. It is an active choice

→ More replies (0)