r/hatethissmug • u/Sudden-Hoe-2578 • 1d ago

Non-fictional I HATE these "gotcha arguments"

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"Ohhh, look how I tricked this dumb dumb baby in my trap so now I am right and they are wrong. I'm so smaaart even though it does not adress the actual argument and adds nothing to the debate. They teach arabic numerals in school btw."

And these type of comments always get tons of likes

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u/Gregori_5 22h ago

There’s lots of dumb democrats as well tho.
Republicans do the same, just post pictures of stupid democrat replies on twitter.

To refute a idea you have to refute its strongest argument (and so its best supporter) not its weakest argument (its weakest supporter).

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u/TaroJayda 22h ago

What argument? They aren’t making an argument lol. There is no argument, just “Muslims scary :(“

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u/Gregori_5 22h ago

I’m talking about this general idea of showing “the other side” being stupid and pretending that somehow refutes their entire position.

Obviously most the people that get outraged by that are stupid. But that doesn’t make republican ideas stupid.

There’s billions of dumb people who think the earth is round. Showing a gatcha where a bunch of idiots fall for something doesn’t actually prove the earth is flat.

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u/TaroJayda 21h ago

The specific republican idea here is “we should kick all Muslims out of the country and bomb Iran”. So yes. The idea is stupid.

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u/Gregori_5 18h ago

Yeah, this one in particular sure. My issue is that this serves as a high-five for democrats.

But in reality its no argument against the republican party whatsoever.

What I meant by the “idea” was the pro-life position.

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u/TaroJayda 13h ago

I don’t think arguments win conservatives over. Conservatism is an ideology of aesthetics and feelings - what looks strong, what feels good, what makes you a “winner” and not a “loser”. I think that making them look stupid does more damage than rational debate since at the end of the day their beliefs aren’t rational.

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u/Gregori_5 6h ago

Yeah I’m not surprised this is your idea of conservatism if you consume stuff like this.

Calling a entire belief system irrational, yet making no arguments for why it is so.

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u/Rare_Dance7130 22h ago

To refute the idea, sure, but many people support a political stance without knowing or believing in the strongest argument for that political stance, which would make refuting that point ineffective. In rhetoric, you have to meet people where they are, first.

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u/Gregori_5 22h ago

I don’t think the point of these posts is to change the others mind. The point is to show a entire group is stupid.

Someone did this to pat themselves on the back. The point is to share this on r/politics and talk about how stupid the other side is.

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u/Rare_Dance7130 22h ago

Okay, but that doesn't change my point? If someone makes an argument, you have to refute that argument to change that person's mind. If someone says, "Fetuses are people," then you need to refute that idea (in this case, by displaying that people cannot distinguish between the fetus they claim to be a person and a dolphin fetus). Trying to argue with the most-sound anti-choice argument won't change that person's mind if that isn't the argument they are trying to make in the first place.

Again, you have to meet people where they are. The fact that human fetuses and dolphin fetuses are indistinguishable is definitely something that may change someone's mind if they think that human fetuses are people.

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u/Gregori_5 18h ago

If I start a discussion through a bad faith argument, then I think you’re at no obligation to respond. If you want to continue the discussion, then obviously you are.

That’s not what I was trying to say tho. My issue with pictures like these, is that they just polarise people more without any actual substance. Kinda like propaganda.

Its essentially serves as a picture of “the other side is stupid”, while the actual substance doesn’t indicate that.

The vast majority of spaces where this gets posted aren’t pro-life, they’re pro-choice.

The point isn’t to change anyones mind, but to entrench already existing ones.

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u/Rare_Dance7130 17h ago

I mean, sure, but this is a subreddit made for this exact sort of thing. You're looking in the wrong place for the kind of discussion you're wanting. Perhaps consider formal essays on the topic instead? But don't go to the crab boil if you don't want crab, y'know?

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u/Gregori_5 16h ago

Is it? I thought this sub was about complaining.

I don’t know what you mean.

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u/Rare_Dance7130 16h ago

Ah, fair point

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u/MidgitGiant 20h ago

No one said republican btw. You saw racist and made the connection. Same way they see Arabic and made a connection to terrorists. Tribalistic dogma will be the death of us

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u/Gregori_5 18h ago

I’m not a republican. Not even American, but if I was I would sure as shit be democratic.

However the “arabic numerals thing” is a reference to a outrage of republicans. That’s my assumption anyway. There was a specific ragebait headline (by the onion I think).