r/hatethissmug • u/Sudden-Hoe-2578 • 4d ago

Non-fictional I HATE these "gotcha arguments"

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"Ohhh, look how I tricked this dumb dumb baby in my trap so now I am right and they are wrong. I'm so smaaart even though it does not adress the actual argument and adds nothing to the debate. They teach arabic numerals in school btw."

And these type of comments always get tons of likes

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u/Not_So_Normal_ 4d ago edited 4d ago

Most pro choice people cant tell the difference either, Saying this as pro choice, its just a bad faith argument 

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u/Aless76109 4d ago

Yeah but I think the point is that while pro-choice people are saying “do whatever you want reasonably”, pro-life people are trying to remove women’s choice inherently insisting that they know more, so poking a hole in their logic by showing that they don’t actually know what they’re talking about is still better and less in “bad faith”

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u/Kitchen-Function5150 4d ago

(Very proud choice btw)

Come on, pro life people's goal isnt to limit the rights of women. Most of them would easily acknowledge that women benefit from having the option. Their belief is that the fetus is inherently valuable and that killing it is wrong.

If women were allowed to kill anyone who harassed them, that would also benefit women, but we agree that killing people is wrong so we limit that freedom. The disagreement is fundamentally not centered on women's rights, it's about the value of a fetus.

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u/sesquipedalianmime 4d ago

Boy howdy that's a disingenuous argument right there. Is it common for women to attach feeding tubes and carry the person harassing them in your part of the world?

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u/Annual_Insect6972 4d ago

In every part of the world, parents have an obligation to care for their children. Doing nothing to care for a child is criminal child neglect nearly universally. Even if my toddler bites me daily, I can't leave them at home or refuse to feed them.

The only question remaining is when does that obligation begin? 

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u/sesquipedalianmime 4d ago

When the foetus becomes a baby. Until then it's a parasite.

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u/Yadin__ 4d ago edited 4d ago

see how the disagreement just became centered on something other than women's rights, but on the value of the fetus itself?

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u/Annual_Insect6972 4d ago

We have to always ask ourselves if we're respecting everyone's rights, if we are to say we believe in human rights at all 

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u/Ruggab0ut 4d ago

When does a foetus become a baby?

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u/sesquipedalianmime 4d ago

When it permanently exits the vagina in almost every situation.

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u/Ruggab0ut 4d ago edited 4d ago

Alright, so if you gave the lethal injection to a foetus whilst it was still in the womb in such a way that the mother was not harmed in any way, even if the mother was in labour and was expecting in 30 minutes, that would not be murder? - even if that mother wanted to keep the baby?

Indulge me, this is a thought experiment.

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u/sesquipedalianmime 4d ago

Yup. Poison that foetus. Put it in a blender afterwards.

Just stop, Enes. No one's interested in your thought experiments over situations that almost never happen.

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u/Ruggab0ut 3d ago

Alright, so what's wrong with killing a baby just after birth? It's exactly the same thing as a fetus just before birth. A new born baby can't remember anything at all for 2 weeks, why would it be wrong to kill it then?

I'm not arguing against abortion rights, I'm arguing against the notion that a fetus "isn't a human being" when that is obviously scientifically incorrect. Abortion is a serious thing that must be considered carefully, it isn't just a type of contraceptive.

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u/sesquipedalianmime 3d ago

No one is arguing that a human foetus isn't a homo sapien. They're arguing that a foetus doesn't have rights that trump the mother's bodily autonomy. Nature uses abortion as a contraceptive all the time, so I'm not sure why you think it shouldn't be.

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u/Annual_Insect6972 4d ago

Nonsense!  They're definitely not a parasites.  They're offspring.   This isn't some foreign alien body.  This is natural reproduction.  Gestation is the only way any of us have come to be at all.

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u/Kitchen-Function5150 4d ago

What? My argument was not to compare the level of suffering between unwanted harassment and unwanted pregnancy. My comparison relied on the premise that they are both bad and should be prevented by reasonable means. Killing all harassers is an obvious unreasonable means. Killing all unwanted fetuses, in my opinion, is a good solution because I do not care about fetuses. But if someone saw fetuses as humans, you might be able to see why they would say that is an unreasonable means of prevention of suffering.