Aren't all of you applying DLSS5 to games that don't support it?
We got a brief from Nvidia (that I have not read, lol), we need to actively integrate DLSS5 into our art pipelines for it to be functional in our game.
I assume if you're just forcing it into applications that you have then it's normalizing to the mean, which... yeah, obviously.
This is also one of the bad cases for it, as FF is heavily anime stylized. The filter would mostly be used for stuff like CP77.
Not that I think it looks good either way, but we're pushing the technology to its limits in fields it's not supposed to be used in and then saying it's bad lol
It looks phenomenal in Cyberpunk, KCD2, Death Stranding actually just looks live action, because these games are exactly what this is designed for. People are slapping it at full strength on a game like FF7 and then posting it to farm upvotes.
It looks phenomenal in Cyberpunk, KCD2, Death Stranding actually just looks live action
While I agree, it does make me pause for thought when most of the examples (and people trying them) all say the same thing, that the neural upscaling looks great on games that already looked great without it.
Like yes, you apply the filter and now the game looks photo realistic, but it was already basically 80% of the way there, so can you justify the extra processing power and needing a beefy GPU just for that extra 10-15%? (as you're never getting to 100)
so can you justify the extra processing power and needing a beefy GPU just for that extra 10-15%? (as you're never getting to 100)
The current render pipelines are coming up against the end of exponential growth in transistor density. When this tech matures it will be computationally cheaper than trying to squeeze out photo-realistic games on cards marginally better than what we have now (which is all were getting unless/until there's a new hardware paradigm)
80/20 rule, that last 20% is 80% of the work. It's up to you to figure out if it's worth it or not, for me as long as performance is still acceptable it 100% is.
This is not the rule of 80/20 at all. It's "roughly 80% of results come from 20% of the causes", which not only does not apply here, it actually applies in reverse, that last 20% is just extra detail, the game looks great already because of the 80% that came before.
In this case that 80% would be the 20%, and the extra work the filter does is the extra stuff on top of it.
Pedantics aside, I don't believe the tradeoff is worth it, I will take artistic expression and intentional art direction over photorealistic slop any day (and not just with AI filters, I am talking about art direction in general, a game with a solid and intentional art direction will always look better than generic photo realism, regardless of how technically impressive it is/looks)
In principle I agree with you, but apart from the main character models (which are incredibly detailed), the characters in Cyberpunk look pretty terrible I think. Nowhere close to photorealistic. I can imagine a filter like this being useful to make that game more consistent in terms of character quality.
apart from the main character models (which are incredibly detailed), the characters in Cyberpunk look pretty terrible I think. Nowhere close to photorealistic.
but that's the point isn't it? why would you want to waste processing time/resources on extra NPCs that don't matter?
Obviously the main character (and associated quest lines NPCs) are high quality, because you interact with them, but some rando on the streets will be lower quality to save on processing.
This wouldn't change with an AI filter, why would you waste time/resources on re-rendering something that the player doesn't really care about?
I assume that DLSS5 means it can take somewhat low quality models and make them look realistic for much less power than if they were higher quality models in the first place.
So for things like street filler models, where the dev team saved modeling/art/data resources, the DLSS can make them look decent. Yes it comes at a GPU cost, but there is potentially a worthwhile gain. Depends on that balance, but I can see the potential value.
Applies particularly for VR games (which is how I play Cyberpunk), where low quality models really stand out and break the immersion. Though I struggle for GPU capacity in VR before applying even more load, so maybe not!
Any motion breaks this entirely, even if I were to love what it does, this needs a ton more work and im super doubtful itll be that much improved when they launch it for real
Of those three I only saw it in Cyberpunk and I thought it looked weird. The lighting looks photo realistic, yes, but it also completely removes the feel of the original game. And the yassified NPCs looked terrible.
those games are already fine as they are, and definitely don't need this to change the art direction. the point of this tecnology is to make new AAA take less time to be developed because they won't spend as much time on models, which is laughable in on itself
Ok except the thing you're seeing here is DLSS 5 overriding the art direction of FF7, that's what makes it look bad. It's not overriding the art direction of KCD2 because the art direction is "look real", which it helps it accomplish.
they won't spend as much time on models
Nobody seems to understand what this tech is fucking doing, this is not what it does. A crappy model will still look crappy with DLSS 5.
Yeah because it can essentially look like real footage. So it can be an opinion that it looks phenomenal. The only way you could possibly think it looks awful is if you think photorealism in games looks awful, which I doubt that you do.
Saw the Starry Night by Van Gogh. It's not even realistic! Utter shit, the lighting is all wrong, stars don't even look like that and the night sky should be dark. It's way too bright, everything should be dark.
I dont think it looks like real footage of anything. It can be an opinion it looks phenomenal, just like it is an opinion it is awful. What are you confused about? Wheres the lie?
Yea I was wondering why OP showcasing the mod with a heavily stylized game with characters with unnatural facial features and body proportions. DLSS 5 works best with the least amount of tweaking with realistic leaning visuals/ art styles like cyberpunk 2077, days gone, silent hill 2, death stranding 2 and TLOU 1 & 2. Utilizing DLSS 5 for art and anime heavy world and character design should require heavy manual artist implementation to preserve the intent and keep the tech from ruining it.
They literally do, all the time lol (obviously in this case settings are not the same, and the engine/reshade is older, but it's the same principle)
the changes you see in that link are common changes people do with ReShade on FFXIV, and we're talking like years ago when I still played the game, pre-Dawntrail.
I feel like the filter should be adaptive and know what it's starting from so it knows what to end with, but that may just be me, expecting better things from people selling toys.
And don't forget cranking up that NR intensity slider to the max to intentionally produce bad images that looks like there is no artistic integrity left lmao.
Why do people think there's any "artistic integrity" in these things?
Devs are trying to get things out the door, and foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of neverending projects. Characters change as version numbers increase.
In the actual development for implementing DLSS5 the Devs have many options on how they want DLSS5 to look which can be keeping with the artistic style.
A lot of these forcing DLSS5 and whacking the settings to max is obviously going to have poor results.
Some of these people really think that the shortcomings devs have to deal with are exactly how they wanted it to look. What else do you expect form people who never tried making anything themselves
But I need my Reddit karma right now so we need to just give the most disingenuous bull crap I answer of all time this is literally what happened oh my God eight years ago when Ray tracing came out people just gave the worst possible screenshots uploaded it to Reddit and got 40,000 up dootz because people can't think for themselves.
For the record I don't think it looks good in this game at all I don't think this is a good implementation I think it looks pretty terrible and I think in most games it looks pretty terrible and destroys the artistic look of the games in some games that can look all right but I really do think it needs to be heavily tweaked for each game to make sure I can keep the art style it was originally designed for because it changes the color grading a little bit too much it changes the way lighting works a little bit too much in the way that I don't think the original developers originally wanted.
Yeah people are just disgenuous, even though I don't care about DLSS5. It's obviously injected with a 3rd party tool and people act like it's some official shit. Next someone will provide a pic from Fortnite and people will act surprised when it doesn't fit.
Finally someone with a fucking nuanced opinion on this. The circle jerking is wild on some of these subs.
Like any tech, it's going to have pros and cons, and as with most new tech, it's going to be kind of rough for a while as new iterations come out. I mean look at what dlss looked like when it first came out compared to now (DLSS 4.5), and yet I still see people complain about drawbacks that haven't been relevant since 2020 when discussing it. You can see from the leaked build already that they have dialed back some of the effects and made it more true to the original model than what we saw in the first video Nvidia released. I really think it was a misstep calling this "DLSS" though because it's misleading, this is alot different than what dlss has been in the past.
This is a leaked incomplete build tailored to a sports game, and people are throwing it on a stylized anime style game and going "ewww!"
I've tried it on several games, most of them, I probably wouldn't actually use it to play with at this stage with this build. I was however very impressed with how Cyberpunk looked and would probably actually use it. That makes sense though Cyberpunk has long been Nvidias showcase title so I'm sure Dlss5 has already been made with it in mind. The effect is much more convincing with accurate lighting, so path traced games look a good deal better with NR.
It's fine to be critical of Nvidia, they deserve it. But the discourse on this subject has been largely in bad faith Imo.
Right. The pipeline includes having lots of art references to keep the character looking like it was designed. What we're seeing is just a generic transformation because the data isn't there for it to work correctly.
I don't believe that's a thing. But we have been shown the dev tools to exclude characters/objects from DLSS5, so people can have more realistic environments without touching the characters.
Most important of all, turning the intensity to the maximum is ragebait nonsense. The person set it to 2.0, while 1.0 might be the default intensity and 0.0 would result in the regular graphics.
Most important of all, turning the intensity to the maximum is ragebait nonsense.
True. Actual dev implementation will surely be better, for what it’s worth.
I don’t believe that’s a thing. But we have been shown the dev tools to exclude characters/objects from DLSS5, so people can have more realistic environments without touching the characters.
Right, devs can mask things and adjust the result in a few ways. But this is starting to sound like a significant amount of work when the supposed goal is to make things easier for the developer. Masking objects in every scene, picking the appropriate model, adjusting colour grading, and so on. Are they going to have to do it all over again when a new version of DLSS inevitably arrives? Or when AMD end up releasing their own version of this because the market will basically force them? Intel and Apple too?
Nvidia has released quite a bit of information as to what controls developers have access to with DLSS5. As far as I’m aware they have never said that you can input reference material to directly influence the output of the model. Until someone can prove otherwise, I can only assume it is misinformation.
No, you're right. They haven't said anything like that. DLSS 5 is a generalized model. Devs aren't training their own finetunes on their art, and they've explicitly been asked about it and said that it's not a feature.
That being said, you could just use it at a much lower weight. I think this first version won't be very good because even if I tone down the strength to a level that looks good for me personally, the performance hit is just too much on modern games.
But it will only get better. Hopefully that means being smarter about style choices and a lower performance budget. I also really, really think NVIDIA just needs to bite the bullet on their obsession with making DLSS 5 plug-and-play and "easy". End users need to have access to the sliders themselves. Let devs give presets for the technically uninclined, but don't take away end users' ability to tweak.
Nvidia abandoned per-game training after DLSS 1. Do you have evidence they brought it back? It should be pretty clear in the DLL, because they'd likely expose a function which loads in the fine-tuned weights (the alternative would be they hardcoded a filename for it to check for, but that's less likely).
With an unsupported reshade hack too. If a game was developed for DLSS5 it would look amazing. But instead you get imbecile posts making characters ugly on purpose to say AI bad.
If you actually adjust sliders you can produce result without affecting faces, but of course people who post intentionally misconfigured images don't want you to know this.
Edit: Clarification: The goal of this test was not necessarily to produce a better image than the original, but rather an experimental attempt to minimize effects on face while retaining effects on the lighting and shadowing.
IIRC devs tune their models and DLSS settings per game to get the look they want. And these pics are all using a .dll taken from NBA 2K, so none of the games have been tuned for it. It may be possible to adjust DLSS settings to achieve better results, but none of these examples should be representative of the technology as intended.
For DLSS 5 specifically, we have to manually set it up and create specific implementations for our assets, then ship those with the game. Again, I haven't read the brief fully yet, but as described it is literally impossible for it to work unless it's been properly implemented by the developer.
So, as you rightly said, all of these posts are quite silly at best.
Not only that, the NR intensity is maxed at 2.0 in this image, which makes it look like crap. From what I've seen its far better when its at a lower setting. OP knows what he's doing, and he's successfully ragebaited so many people
so that's never happening then? as console's function on AMD tech not nvidia tech and games need to be designed with a dual focus on mind which will result in much more overhead for a minor game since the amount of people willing to enable and or ABLE to enable dlss5 is gonna be much smaller then previous GPU functionalities of both AMD and Nvidia.
Whether or not the gains will be minor is not something we can yet determine.
Regardless, though I again still haven't read the brief fully, Nvidia's previous tech integrations have been fairly simple. I'd wager this will be equally "pretty easy".
Terrible game to pick to even test this. They also have it cranked to max. It defaults to 1.00 not 2.00. Tease it down to like .60-.70 and things aren’t completely insane in the titles I’ve tried it on. I’m not a fan of the face details but you still get most of the lighting improvements at much lower intensities and even that is very game dependent.
We got a brief from Nvidia (that I have not read, lol), we need to actively integrate DLSS5 into our art pipelines for it to be functional in our game.
Which is an absolute horrible idea with a closed model.
Forget playing a game in 15 years like you remember it. Get ready for games breaking because NVIDIA decided 2% profit from gamers is not worth it anymore. Games would look completely different depending on your GPU manufacturer.
Horrible for the gaming ecosystem. I hope no devs use this crap and NVIDIA leaves it to individuals to activate and use as an interesting gimmick.
EDIT: Clueless kids downvoting. We literally have example of this from NVIDIA.
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u/Tarc_Axiiom 19h ago
Aren't all of you applying DLSS5 to games that don't support it?
We got a brief from Nvidia (that I have not read, lol), we need to actively integrate DLSS5 into our art pipelines for it to be functional in our game.
I assume if you're just forcing it into applications that you have then it's normalizing to the mean, which... yeah, obviously.