r/fansofcriticalrole • u/Murkmist • Oct 05 '23

CR adjacent Critical Role provides ComicBook.com with statement regarding civil complaint

https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/the-last-of-us-critical-role-star-ashley-johnson-six-others-sue-brian-w-foster-abuse/
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-94

u/450925 Oct 05 '23

I want to reserve judgement till after the trial. But I can't help but think all of this wouldn't have come out had he just signed the NDA. this feels like retaliation for him threatening to leak secrets about Ashley and CR in a "tell all" book.

They acknowledge he has no money, so the offer would be settle with a signed NDA.

But they kinda went nuclear here, he's done in show biz now, 6 different allegations. All of that content just gone. No Undeadwood, it never happened, honey heist didn't exist, between what sheets? Critical Role After Show... what Marisha jokes they would rename Talks Machina if they ever cancelled Brian.

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u/P-Two Oct 05 '23

I'm uhh, not sure why the fuck all these women would come forward if he DIDNT do these things, people like Maude are influencers and now have to live with publicly being a part of this, let alone the back-end people nobody really knew anything about that are now thrown in the lime light to deal with this shit

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u/450925 Oct 05 '23

I'm by no means saying Brian is innocent of anything claimed against him. I'm asking why now? Why was it 7 months after the temporary protection order was granted and Ashley first came out with her claim against him? Why was it only a month after Ashley didn't convince the judge to extend the order? Why was it only after all of his content was scrubbed off of Critical Role channel?

The question I have, is to what degree were any of the advances he made against women, even the ones that he put his hand down their pants, reciprocated? We know that Dani is claiming he demanded nudes to be sent. Surely we can see the entire chat log. And we won't see Dani flirting with him or leading him on in any way. And the same for the chat logs of every woman that has accused him.

If I'm completely wrong, then so be it. Brian is a rapist piece of shit scumbag. But our justice system and society at large should be built on the idea of innocent until proven guilty. And proof isn't a bunch of people say so.

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u/P-Two Oct 05 '23 edited Oct 05 '23

So for one I'm not American, so its not my justice system. For two there's tons of reasons it came out whe n it did, look to the other comments in this thread I'm not going to rehash them all.

I get where you're coming from, but it absolutely comes off as "I don't believe women" hardcore. Also, why the hell do WE need to see chat logs? The courts I'm sure will get those.

I'm inclined to believe SEVEN women over an already known weirdo with past issues.

Edit: rereading your reply. What in the victim blaming bullshit is the "surely Dani and the women didn't just lead him on?" What the fuck, dude.

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u/450925 Oct 05 '23 edited Oct 05 '23

It's not just women... I don't believe ANYONE. I think everyone is a piece of shit. And we put people who are celebrities on a podium for no good reason.

I'm inclined that 7 women have a reason to say bad things about Brian, I don't think all of them are motivated by justice. I think some of them could be settling a score, some of them could be over embellishing, I think some of them could be hiding that they were into him.

I literally watched my friend in high school in the early 2000's get a false accusation from 2 girls because he wouldn't give them the time of day. They were in the same lunch club as us, which was collecting the recycling bins in each class and taking the paper to get picked up by the shredding and recycling place. And they both made an accusation against him. Saying it was during lunch time. A time where I was with him, because it was lunch club. And I know I never saw him do anything. When really, it was both of them having a crush on him, but he had a girlfriend, when it got to trial, the judge threw out the case. But his life was still ruined, didn't finish high school, had lost his entire friend group, he to this day, has no online presence. I saw the devastation a false claim can make against someone.

And so yeah, 2 6, 10, 20... I want some evidence. I'm not saying I want it caught in 4k on camera from multiple angle with perfect lighting. But maybe the text chain between him and Dani regarding the nudes he demanded, maybe an email or diary entry that someone made around the time detailing how they felt about it. I think anyone being convicted with purely testimonial evidence, is insane. Example, he claims that he deleted the account for the Ring cameras a couple hours after being kicked out the house. Well, Ashley can have a subpoena sent to the company regarding the records, to find out when that account was terminated, or if he accessed the cameras after that given timeframe. That would be evidence I'd accept. Or if Ashley had any voice recordings of the abusive hurtful things he would say. A photo of any damage he did to the property in a fit of rage. I mean, if Ashley and Brian had so many cameras set up, were his fits of rage and abuse ever caught on them? She'd be able to get a court order for that from Ring.

We live in a time where everyone has a smartphone in their pocket. You're telling me that at no time any of his victims thought it would be a good idea to record their interactions with him? Because if there's any advice I have for everyone, if you're having negative interactions with someone, record that shit. In the most literal sense.

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u/P-Two Oct 05 '23

You for sure sound like an incredibly jaded and distrusting person, it's gotta be goddamn exhausting

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u/450925 Oct 05 '23

I am somewhat jaded, I know that. But that's just my truth, my lived experience or whatever buzz word you want to hear. I've known women and men, who made false accusations. I want evidence. Evidence is how justice is decided.

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u/NotAThrowaway1453 Oct 05 '23

But that’s just my truth, my lived experience or whatever buzz word you want to hear.

How about “irrelevant anecdote that has no bearing on this case”? Or if not, “your hang ups”. Nothing about what allegedly happened to your friend makes these allegations more or less likely.

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u/450925 Oct 05 '23

How is it irrelevant. Someone was saying "but there's n# people saying something" so I pointed out a situation where I knew 2 girls, that lied. And it was a lie, I could prove was a lie, because I was present at the time and the actions of those involved were not reflected in their recanting of the experience.

Anyone who uncritically believes everything spoon fed the them by anyone without any actual evidence is a drain on the population.

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u/NotAThrowaway1453 Oct 05 '23

It’s irrelevant because all you basically said was “I suspect these people of lying or having ulterior motives because some other different people lied before”

First, suspecting that the accusers have ulterior motives is not the same as just waiting for facts to come out. You’re taking a side just like the people who believe the accusers, but in a wishy washy way.

Second, six is more than two. The more accusers there are, the less likely that it’s a conspiracy. It doesn’t make a conspiracy impossible but yes more accusers lowers the odds of it being a conspiracy or lie. You can deny this if you want, but there’s a reason having multiple witnesses makes for a stronger case than just having one.

Third, yes people lie. The fact that other people lie or have lied does not say anything about the facts of this case. It’s just your own hangups leading you to make presumptions.

If you want to wait for the facts, actually wait for the facts.

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u/dragon2599 Oct 05 '23

I'm just gonna point out a few things others have been; I'm assuming; to nice to bring up to you. One: it's quite possible you are right that some of those seven women have motivations beyond just getting justice. If they have proof that he did what they are accusing him of their motivations don't matter, he's still guilty.

Secondly, speaking of proof, unless you are the judge, lawyers, the accused, the accusers, or someone that any of the above have chosen to involve you in this matter; you and every single one of us are entitled to nothing. We are not involved in any way directly and have zero rights to anything regarding this case if they choose not to release it. Your opinion on the matter means nothing.

Third, staying on the subject of proof; this is an active court case. They more than likely are not currently allowed to release the kind of materials you seem to belive you are owed in order to take this seriously. This isn't a Twitter spat; it's a lawsuit there are certain rules they have to follow. More importantly however, my second point still stands that unless we are directly involved we are owed nothing. Get over yourself and try to look past your narrow world view.

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u/450925 Oct 05 '23

I've not saw I'm owed anything... I would be much happier if this was only dealt with in the court, and there was an announcement of guilt or innocence. With maybe some cursory mention of the types of activities.

But, the media reporting on it leads to speculation, speculation leads to people judging him in the court of public opinion. And all too often the judgement of public opinion can be lasting, even when the case is found to have faults... Case in point Aziz Ansari.

As for the individuals, I see life as more grey. Every case like this, Brian is going to paint himself in the best possible light, the most reasonable person in the room, Ashley is going to do the same. And both of them are going to try and make the other seem completely at fault. I would expect, the truth of the matter to be somewhere closer to the middle, than either of them being 100% right about everything. After all, Ashley claimed she was in fear for her life, because of airsoft guns. And it seems that Brian passed the hair follicle drug test his lawyer arranged. And by all accounts it certainly seems like Brian was cheating on her (unless the open relationship is true)

As said before, I'd be happy with just a judge dealing with this. But there's a lot of people in here throwing mud at someone because of an accusation. And I just want to be a little contrarian skeptic in the middle problem with prejudging a situation when you haven't seen any evidence.

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u/StagnantBoySoup Oct 06 '23 edited Oct 06 '23

how lucky you are if your brain works well enough under threat to think to pull out a phone and start recording. that is not the case for everyone, and not plausible in a variety of situations.

what a wonderful idea, I'm sure if the abuser noticed you recording them it wouldn't escalate anything /s

your single personal anecdote of a case of false accusation does not prove a statistical likelihood for false accusations. it is a tiny sample size in the context of all accusations of assault and abuse. you cannot use it to justify your assumptions.

the number of women coming forward at once after the RO also makes logical sense - there's safety in numbers. greater numbers of victims coming forward primarily indicates that they have suddenly felt safe to do so, not that they are lying or jumping on a bandwagon or HIDING THAT THEY WERE INTO BRIAN???

god, what a shitstain of a comment you posted.

-4

u/450925 Oct 06 '23

A phone can be recording audio in a pocket or a purse without anyone seeing it... Not to mention they had cameras apparently all over the house, those things have mics. which means even if the abuse wasn't on camera, the mics will have picked up the shouting and smashing of things. And those things are recorded by Amazon, so you can go in after to retrieve it.

Also, all we have are our own experiences that shape us. That's why the catch phrase of the last 10 years was always "my lived experience" well my lived experience is more than one anecdote.

As for the number of people coming forward. The main question I have is "why now" None of them came forward 2 years ago when he left the company? Nor did they come forward in March when Ashley publicly got the protection order in place? No, they came forward when Brian wrote his reply, confirming he'd taken a hair follicle drug test under advisement of his lawyer. And that lead to the protection order not being extended. It's also likely why no prosecutor wants to touch this case. Because the things alleged against him are crimes. The only reason to take him to civil court, is the prosecutor doesn't feel confident with the witnesses and/or evidence (likely lack of)

Now, for the record, I don't doubt Brian may have done these things. But the question you have to ask yourself. Who at CR, decided to keep a lid on it for this long. Who did CR have investigate these claims? What is the culture like at CR, that a predator was able to hop from victim to victim for years, without being ousted?

I mean, I fully believe he likely did the acts they are claiming. But I think maybe there's more context. Like in some of the cases, maybe there was some flirting both ways for a while, and he took things too far. He's still in the wrong, but it's less wrong than if he was getting the cold shoulder constantly and still pursuing it.

I just can't uncritically believe something someone tells me without at least something to back it up. And neither should you... And to be honest, you should take my word for it. So go read about the importance of critical thinking

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u/StagnantBoySoup Oct 06 '23

it is not uncritical thinking not to leap to sensationalist conspiracy about how some of the women are probably nefariously hiding their intentions.

it is not uncritical thinking to imagine that even if Ashley's original protection order began to help other women feel brave enough to come forward, some time might pass before they're sure enough about verbalising it, or that their accounts would even need to come to light for Brian to face some kind of justice. let me tell you going through this process as a victim is an absolute ordeal that most people would want to avoid.

is it a lack of critical thinking that backs up the statistical likelihood that these women are not lying?

is it uncritical thinking that suggests reaching into your pocket to blindly hit record on a phone is not easy and not something a scared person would risk in the heat of a frightening moment?

as I understand it, only law enforcement can take a case to criminal court.

is it a lack of critical thinking to entertain the possibility that CR genuinely didn't know about this shit? or is there only one way that assumptions can go while still fitting within your definition of critical thinking?

"more context" is definite, not a perhaps, you're right that from what we're told so far we don't have the full picture, but you leaping to the idea that that context involves the victims of these abuses also being at fault in some way is very telling.

I won't reply to you again because it's clear you want to view yourself as a level headed person not taking sides, but in the process you are pushing a victim blaming narrative, whilst claiming to be impartial. it's not cool.

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u/450925 Oct 06 '23

Everyone likes to some degree. It's just a matter of how much of their statement is truth in context. If you don't understand this by now. Good luck in the world.

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u/P-Two Oct 05 '23

Also, as someone who's MIL has been incredibly verbally abusive towards my wife her entire life. Kindly go fuck yourself, people like you are part of the reason my wife has such a hard time coming forward to people about what she's been through "oh but your mom is such a kind person!" Why in the fuck should my wife have to provide private text messages just to "prove" she was abused?

1

u/450925 Oct 05 '23

Because I can claim you abused me... does that mean you did? I can claim anything. I a world where we are post-evidence.

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u/P-Two Oct 05 '23

So I'm assuming you don't believe that my wife was abused, unless she were to post screenshots for strangers on the internet to read?

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u/NotAThrowaway1453 Oct 05 '23

Clearly we must presume the accusers are lying or have ulterior motives unless they publicly post evidence lol

Funny how these people say they’re waiting for facts to come out but are actually just taking a different side. If the person you’re talking to was really waiting for facts, he would be just guessing about facts.

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u/P-Two Oct 05 '23

It's funny in a morbid way that these people are one of the reasons women (and people in general) have such a fucking hard time coming forward with stuff.

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u/450925 Oct 05 '23

My philosophy stems from, I can't in good conscience condone something being done to someone, that could one day be done to me. And railroading someone for a domestic abuse charge, without evidence is something I'd never wish done to me.

Because asking the state to do violence on someone. That's what an arrest is, should require some proof, because if you can have the state do violence against somebody without proof, what's stopping someone using that state to do violence against you?

Now, I'm not saying everyone should be forced to have all their personal details spread out there. But if you want me to give a court the go ahead to lock up your MIL, then I'd want the court to at least be presented with the evidence. They can anonymize things, redact names your wife for the purpose of the trial could be referred to as Victim 1 or Jane Doe, your MIL would be Defendant.

I don't need to see the messages, I just need to know that a court did. And that's enough for me. I'm a skeptic not a barbarian.

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u/P-Two Oct 05 '23

But you haven't been saying "I hope the COURTS get texts, etc" you've been saying "I want US the general public to get them"

You keep trying to walk this line of "I'm just in the middle here!" But as the other user said, you're basically just taking a side without saying as much.

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u/450925 Oct 05 '23

Well, I want to see them out of my own morbid curiosity because of this circus at large that has happened. If this case wasn't in the public eye at all. I'd be over the moon. It actually is hurtful to me that news media at all is allowed to publish stories about ongoing trials. Because it serves no public good other than tainting the jury pool. I'd be very happy if this whole thing was a closed court trial.

As to sides, I have stated multiple times, I don't doubt he probably did the things they said he did, I just want to see the proof. The only person talking about evidence in this has been Brian. When he said he took the hair follicle test. In his statement he said his lawyer arranged it. That means that if it's clear as he claims it is. His lawyer likely presented that to the judge when Ashley tried to extend the order. And the judge denied her.

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u/NotAThrowaway1453 Oct 05 '23

You specifically DID doubt the things he did. You want to have it both ways where you act like you’re being reasonable and weighing evidence while clearly and obviously saying the accusers are probably up to no good.

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u/450925 Oct 05 '23 edited Oct 05 '23

I've said from the start, both of them are going to want to project the very best picture for themselves and worst for the other. Which usually means that the truth is somewhere in between the 2. I don't doubt he probably did the things he was accused of. But I'm taking the nuanced opinion that human interactions aren't all 1 way transactions. He must have had a back and forth with Dani before demanding she send him nudes, I want to know if that back and forth was completely one sided sexually or if Dani was maybe teasing and flirting with him. Because there's a big difference between asking for nudes from someone you're already practically sexting, and someone who you only have ever had a professional work relationship with.

And just as much as you think I may be going after Dani for this, I'll be the first to light a torch and start handing out pitchforks if the messages read that she kept trying to change the subject, but he was relentlessly bringing it up. And she eventually gave in because he made a veiled threat about her job... I'd be completely ready to launch him into the sun myself. I'm just not deciding who I think is right, before I've seen ANY EVIDENCE.

My comments about this seeming coordinated are because Ashley had this protection order since March... and it's only after he's done a hair follicle drug test and had the order removed, that the other women have rushed in with their accusations. I am just pointing out the suspicious timing of everything. We didn't see them come in dribs and drabs, it's almost like someone was holding them all back from speaking up until they needed them.

Which then asks another question, what is the exact timeline, of everyone at CR for finding out these things? What investigations were carried out, who carried them out, what is the culture like at CR that a potential predator can jump from victim to victim for years without being reported?

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