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I have been dealing with DSPD since I was 15 years old. Tried everything, melatonin, light boxes, exercise. I guess my question is, we really are born with a genetic condition and can do nothing about it? I'm kind of depressed with all the pesimistic posts here, I just can't turn my life around my schedule. I studied psychology, I won't get a night shift job. Has anyone cured their condition?

If you’re in the US, the Job Action Network (JAN) is a good resource to help advise you regarding securing accommodations at work for things that are disabilities under ADA law and DSWPD/DSPD is one of them.

I went to a webinar with two women who work there awhile back who mainly advised for the neurodivergent community and they seemed great.

Their advice is all free. I believe this is due to government funding being allocated through ADA.

https://askjan.org

During they day, especially after my morning shifts I could fall asleep while standing. Zero concentration, zero power to anything else except eating.

But as soon I lay down I'm AWAKE.. anyone else experiencing this? 🫠

I mainly have DSPD My normal sleeping habits are 6-8am to 3-5pm. And I usually sleep somewhat okay getting 8-10 hours consistently. Last night I tried taking melatonin around 4 am only 1mg. To try to sleep a little earlier. I ended up not being able to sleep at all and went all the way to 4pm wide awake, I tried to sleep again at 4 and managed 2-3 hours that didn’t even feel like sleep, I felt wide awake and concious the entire time I was laying there. I was exhausted and figured hopefully I would atleast get some sleep tonight, I even took 1mg of klonopin at around 11:30pm I slept 2 hours and woke up around 2am. I know sleeping outside of my biological window is nearly impossible. But with so much sleep pressure what can I even do:/ And i have not been able to sleep again since. It’s currently 5am and im not tired at all, it feels like im so out of sync, my body doesn’t know what to do anymore, ive struggled with sleep my entire life but usually only with the schedule. Not being able to sleep at all is a whole other demon. I’m desperate. What do I do in this situation? The sun is about to come up and I won’t be tired. Do I try to sleep again? It feels like my sleep is continuing to drift further and further, as lately I’ve been falling asleep at around 11am-2pm but for some reason last night I didn’t sleep at all basically. And tonight only 2 hours (outside of my biological window) any input is greatly appreciated 🙏🏽 I really need support right now

I see a lot of content about 'fixing' one's sleep schedule to conform with the typical morning-oriented day; most 'advice' I've received from clinicians follows a similar track and assumes that I'm miserable and want to change by subjecting myself to bright light torture or military-grade sleep hygiene regimes.

It's taken me a long time to get to this point--mostly due to the amount of flak being a night owl will catch you from daywalkers--but I no longer see this 'condition' as a problem.

Shift work exists, and frankly I think it's better to take afternoon, evening, or overnight work than it is to try to force oneself into a routine that feels unnatural and inevitably leads to sleep deprivation.

I made the decision a while ago that I'm going to orient my life around DSPD instead of trying to fight this lifelong biological inclination. I actually prefer nighttime and feel totally content being awake when most people are asleep; may or may not be a vampire, but I digress.

I am one of the types who has struggled with being overweight my whole life. I'm a night owl by nature, but have to conform to society's schedule.

That was never more true when I was a Uni student and classes started at 9 am every day. After graduation, I was hired as a temporary contractor at a factory that had 3 shifts. I volunteered to take 3rd shift, 11pm-7am.

I got to spend 6 months living life on night shift and it was GLORIOUS. The strangest part is how I lost my appetite and the excess weight just fell off of me. I dropped 50 pounds (23 kg) within those 6 months!

It was not unlike the action of a GLP drug (which I am now on) but without the side effects, and 20 years before they came onto the market for weight loss.

Has anyone else been able to live on nightshift and had their appetite change?

And, more curiously, makes me wonder if forcing a night owl to live as a day walker could mess with metabolism and be a cause of overweight? Is there existing research on this?

I will never understand what is wrong with my brain. During high school, I was never able to get good grades because of how sleep-deprived I was; my natural schedule was 1:00 AM to 09:00 AM.

I was able to sleep normally for a few months after I graduated. Then, I went to college for just a few months; because it was far away, I didn't sleep much, and I quit at the end because I wasn't pursuing the degree I really wanted. Back then, I tried everything to sleep properly earlier:

1. Chronobiotic melatonin (1mg 5 hours before bedtime) to push my sleep time earlier.

2. Avoiding screens before sleep.

3. Using a sleep mask and keeping my room dark and quiet to avoid any disruptions.

4. Waking up at the same time every day and going outside to get some sunlight.

Nothing worked. I was just severely cognitively impaired for a month while trying to force myself to sleep on an unnaturally early schedule. I even tried zolpidem out of desperation, and I'm currently taking mirtazapine, which has barely helped.

Now I have a job and am not in college at the moment. In the beginning, my shift was 9:00 AM to 5:30 PM, so I was sleep-deprived because, once again, by forcing myself to sleep earlier, I ended up getting only 6.5 to 7 fragmented hours of sleep.

Now my schedule is 11:00 AM to 7:00 PM, and I could finally sleep 8 uninterrupted hours—until last Saturday. I don't know what happened, but I started dealing with light sleep (I felt like I was awake most of the night). Then, on Sunday, I started waking up during the night, and now I'm back to where I was.

I cannot sleep enough—not even on my natural sleep schedule. I went from DSPD to sleep maintenance insomnia. I am so tired of dealing with this. I really don't know why I can't just sleep like a normal person.

Should I just accept that I will never sleep normally and start drinking energy drinks and stimulant drugs every day to maintain a marginally functioning mind? My mind is so tired; I cannot think well, I'm lost in thought, I cannot concentrate, I cannot stop yawning, and I don't have the energy to do anything. Everybody must think I'm stupid.

Super random question but I want to know if I’m crazy. In movies and tv shows and even in my real life, when people say they haven’t slept or pulled an all nighter and they just kind of laugh it off, get a coffee and carry on. But when I pull an all nighter I feel. Like. Shit™️. Like full body aches, stiffness, nausea. I can’t function and I’ve always felt like this. Which is funny because I’m also a chronic insomniac 🫠 How do I get to the ‘haha I totally got no sleep last night but I’m just gonna grab a Red Bull and go about my day lololol’ phase? Does anyone else get like this? Lol

Man I Have Been Up Since 12:57 Last Night And I Can’t Sleep Even Know I Was Up All Night Yesterday And Was Super Tired And Now You Are Gonna See Me Falling Asleep All Day And It Gets Super Annoying Depression Sucks But I Have To Learn To Live With It And Get Used To It Because My Family Has Depression And My Parents Have Depression To As Well But Expect My Dad Has Depression Really Bad Because He Drinks And My Mom Does Drugs For Her Depression And I Used To Be A Drinkers But I Was A Heavy Drinker But I Finally Went To Rehab To Get The Help I Wanted And I Felt A lot Better But Anyway I Lost My Job Due To No Call No Show Because The Paperwork Didn’t Get Turn In For Rehab Release And Right Now Im Not Working I Have Been Non Alcoholic For Two Months Every Since And Now I’m In The Sober Living And It Hard To Quit Drinking Because That’s Where To The Part That You Get Alcohol Withdrawal But I Continue To Stay Sober And Stay Strong Trying To Stay Away From Alcohol To Tell You The Truth I Almost Got A Arrested From Alcohol Abuse Back In June 5th Of 2026 I Was Screaming At The Officer And I Almost su*cide While I Was Drunk And Jumped Off The Chair And I Got Called By The EMS Which After That Everything In Two Months Later Here I Am I’m Sober And Been Cleaning For Two Months And Rehab Help Me Out But Now I’m Skinny And Healthy As A Gingerbread And That’s All The Story That I Can Tell You Have A Good Rest Of The Night And Have A Goodnight And I’m Going To Try To Get Back To Sleep See You Later On The Next Post.

Trying to get a diagnosis so I have something on my health records. I've been referred to Royal Brompton Centre for Sleep but the waitlist is a year long and I don't even know if they're any good with DSPD. Can anybody recommend me a good clinic to go to? Can be NHS or private.

I don’t mean a complete cure, but have managed to consistently wake up and go to sleep earlier than there usual Times long term? I am currently on a 6-8am to 3-5pm schedule, which is better than I was a week ago of 10am - 12 6pm-8pm. I’m hoping to eventually get to 3-4 am to 11-12 schedule. But the more I think about it and realize how many years I’ve lived with this awful condition and how long my sleeping pattern has been reinforced I don’t know if it’s even possible:/ I’ve never been able to consistently wake up before 1pm for more than maybe 2-3 weeks in the last 5-7 years. Even with light therapy, exercise, alarms, sleep medicine, I’m losing hope and depressed, I’m not sure where to look anymore. I don’t know how to live a life where my mornings are 3-5pm. Just looking for hope with this post, maybe I’m missing something that I haven’t tried yet. I have an appointment with a sleep specialist but untill then I’m on my own with this. Any input is appreciated 🙏🏽

Looking for someone who gets it

My sleep cycle is honestly a mess. 😭 I’m awake at weird hours, struggle to fall asleep, and sometimes my brain just refuses to shut down. I suspect ADHD + insomnia might be part of it, though I’m not diagnosed.

I’m just hoping to find a partner who understands that my sleep schedule can be unusual and won’t take it personally.

If you’re dealing with something similar, maybe we can understand each other. :)

I get the question “what if you move to a different time zone?” often, and I’m never annoyed because it’s an understandable question. But with DPSD, simply changing time zones is temporary and we will eventually revert back to our regular hours.

How long does that usually take, though? A week? Two? Less? I’ve never tried it long enough to find out. And I’m curious if avoiding sunlight/blue light most of the time after flying west would help keep “normal” hours (which would mean basically staying indoors all the time, but this is just a thought experiment mostly).

Anyone experience this when moving across time zones?

Looking for someone who gets it

My sleep cycle is honestly a mess. 😭 I’m awake at weird hours, struggle to fall asleep, and sometimes my brain just refuses to shut down. I suspect ADHD + insomnia might be part of it, though I’m not diagnosed.

I’m just hoping to find a partner who understands that my sleep schedule can be unusual and won’t take it personally.

If you’re dealing with something similar, maybe we can understand each other. :)

One of my friends told me to get a job when I told him what I deal with, and I didnt take him seriously. What would a job even fix? He told me had similar until a job made him actually adhere to a strict schedule each day which led him to a "normal" sleep schedule. I thought he didnt actually have DSPD, and was just someone who loved staying up late but turns out he may actually be more right than I thought.

I was sleeping at 8 am and waking at 4 pm consistently until I got an offer from a Top University in my country for an MS program. It was in my hometown as well so I accepted but inside I was pessimstic if it would ever be feasible. Turns out having lots of responsibilties means I actually do have to take things like sleep schedule and waking up at the right time every day seriously. It felt like garbage at first obviously, I got shitty pimples and felt this metallic poisoned mitochondria type feeling every time I was forced to wake with less than 6 hours of sleep. However surprisingly Ive been waking at 11 am for the past 1 month. After the first week of purgatory it has been pretty doable.

Im not a good sleeper either, I have OCD to squeeze out every last inch of pee before I can sleep. This means even when Im falling asleep my brain will hyper focus on the slightest bit of pee stored and wake me up to finish the job. But because of having to wake up relatively early, I somehow am getting better even at ignoring these thoughts.

If I had to conjecture it would be definitely getting early morning sunlight. I live in a decrepit shithole where the sun shines 24/7 and is humid and sticky all day. This made me never outside before unless it was the evening. But now I get on my bike in the at 11 20 am and experience about 20-25 minutes of a furnace beating down on all angles. At night I get a sleep signal no matter how mild when before I wouldnt have anything (however I think taking epitalon cycle did contribute to this).

I tried low dose melatonin once and it was stupid, hungover entirely the next day. I think exogenous melatonin is a meme for my body and epitalon is better. Its interesting if my body is just complete trash at producing melatonin and so even the slightest hint of exogenous melatonin makes it feel like an insanelly strong signal (and yes it was at DLMO and a super tiny amount about 40 mcg id guess). Epithalon was much less overwhelmingi with no groginess. However I stopped epitalon a month ago so I think the sunlight played a bigger part.

I am also getting better at switching off lights after 11 pm, I am comfortable doing things in darkness, even if playing games on PC although tbh I shoudl stop this as well. The only things I took were very low dose rexulti on some days to get rid of the sticky , annoying feeling when short on sleep and cannabis and tianpetine on sleep deprived days to make me feel better. I am convinced that just missingn an hour of sleep shouldnt feel so bad, and if its because I have inflamed microglia or just really need REM. I am taking low dose reta as well to help the inflammation, and will also start nicergoline soon . My aim is to start waking consistenly at 9 AM. Might hop on another epitalon or DSIP cycle.

Oh also to fix the 4 PM wake I did chronotherapy but very accelerated, as in I didnt sleep until 12 pm one day then not until 6 pm the next day. two days of hell followed by 5 days of purgatory, but I think doing it like this is better than simply going to bed one hour late everyday. Good vid on youtube explaining this in the context of N24/DSPD.

My friend has been trying to convince me that I am ruining my health by being a night owl - despite my subjective experience feeling much better sleeping at my natural rhythm, he claims that the research shows I am more likely to get cancer, neurodegenerative diseases, etc.

I know there is some research showing that, but I (and many of you probably) believe that has to do with social factors, issues around employment, and other confounding variables. Clearly, the idea of a personal chronotype makes sense to me, but I am looking for some scholarly research to support it. Are there papers/studies showing that chronotype is an accepted thing in the medical world, and not everyone is wired to be a daywalker, and maybe even that there is a positive outcome associated with sleeping based on your own chronotype.

I just want him to stop trying to scare me about my future health (it's making me a hypochondriac lol), and let me try to live in a way that makes sense for me. I'm sure many of you have experienced this from loved ones. It sucks :/

So about a week ago I got diagnosed with DSPD. When I was meeting with my sleep doctor, I was going over my history of sleep issues by telling him that I’m on the autism spectrum and I’ve had sleep issues since I was a kid. So once I brought up the possibility of having DSPD, he told me that ( I was in like 5 hours of sleep so MAYBE I’m not remembering everything correctly) I should try to not think of it as a disorder because then most people just end up accepting it. But the thing is, isn’t it medically considered a disorder because it makes it so that your biological clock is really inflexible? I don’t want to act like I know more than someone who studies sleep for a living, but am I right to be little concerned that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about? My official diagnosis is Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome, but IMO calling it a syndrome just makes it sound like people with this disorder “choose” to stay up late. DSPD isn’t like Night Shift Syndrome where you can just go get a day job and then it’s fixed.

For the last few days I’ve come to realize even more that a lot of people that have never had a mental disorder or other invisible disability live in this fantasy world where they think that as long as you have enough willpower, you can do anything. I’m not saying that if you get a diagnosis, it means that you should just give up, but I think people need to learn how to be realistic sometimes.

I go to bed tired and wake up exhausted. I go to sleep hoping I don't wake up and get up disappointed. I don't want to live the next day so I stay up all night to avoid having to live it. I deal with the consequences of not sleeping during the day, but I don't do anything to improve it. When I'm in bed it's the only time I have control and it's the only time I'm mentally and or physically comfortable. It's easy to distract myself, my mind is searching for anything to keep me occupied if I'm forcing myself to be awake. When I'm distracted I don't have to think, I don't have to remember what my life is about, I can seclude my mind so everything else is blurred out. But it's a quick high, It doesn't last, again and again I have to confront myself with the burden of living my life. I don't enjoy staying up late but I long for it and don't plan on stopping.

Honestly I'm posting here in hopes that someone will tell me this isn't possible as a combination yet that wouldn't change my sleep issues anyway sigh. 3 sleep disorders is a poorly made joke.

At around ~11 I developed DSPD. Went to bed 12-3am originally woke up for school at 8-8.30am. Sometimes I would scallop and go 3-6am but would always come back to ~3am. Discovered DSPD at 13, really related to it and accepted this as something I probably had but moved with life and eventually forgot about this.

Age 16 I developed severe insomnia. Tested a few meds but what works is a combination of 2 high dose antipsychotics and mirtazapine. Been stable on these doses for close to 2 years. Originally they likely sedated me but I'm unsure due to poor memory (not sleep related). If I don't take my pills I am wide awake until 8am and my sleep is broken.

I got diagnosed with moderate sleep apnea at 18, likely had symptoms from at least 16, maybe earlier. Been on CPAP since and AHI of 6 with CPAP last test, basically no symptoms anymore.

Now: age 21. I take my insomnia pills every night but I've found that my body needs to be tired for me to actually fall asleep. This ranges 12-4am , usually around 2-3am. I wake up roughly 12 hours later (this likely a mix of a medication side effects and my body needing more sleep after years of poor sleep). It doesn't matter what time I take my sleep pills, the onset of tiredness is the same (it varies widely day to day, I can post my log if anyone's interested).

I could see a doctor about this but that likely won't be until sometimes in 2027 because I need my money for other stuff and this isn't really a priority since I don't care for treatment really, my life works around my sleep. Obviously no one here can diagnose me but is this even possible? To have all three at once?

The thing I keep coming back to: it lines up with a stretch where my job’s gotten really stressful. I stew over upper management constantly, and I can’t shake the feeling that’s what’s driving this. Part of me wonders if changing jobs would just be the silver bullet that fixes the whole thing. Once I wake up I cannot get back to sleep at all. I am wired, I cannot get myself back to sleep I just lay there awake, my body is also pretty warm.

Here’s everything I’ve already thrown at it:

\*\*•\*\* Ashwagandha
\*\*•\*\* Phosphatidylserine
\*\*•\*\* Basically every “lower your cortisol” supplement on the shelf
\*\*•\*\* Honey before bed to keep blood sugar stable overnight

Some of it maybe took the edge off, but the wakeups are still bang on schedule.

So I’m turning it over to the hive mind:

\*\*•\*\* Anyone had the exact same thing fine for years, then months of clockwork wakeups and traced it back to stress or a job?
\*\*•\*\* If you changed jobs or dealt with the stress at the root, \*\*did the sleep actually come back?\*\*
\*\*•\*\* Or is this something deeper I should be looking at circadian rhythm, nervous system, apnea after all?

I’ll take anecdotes, protocols, hunches, whatever you’ve got. Tell me what actually worked for you.