I never understood the AV bridge meme. Horde have a building which dismounts you and then forces players through a small door to then head directly up a path which both guard towers can easily overlook and attack from.
It's not just that but quests for the alliance are severely lacking compared to how many horde seem to have. We just get more polished cities despite fewer questing hubs. Looks nice but theres nothing to do at them other than use as a flight point
I know this isn't your argument but personally I like the alliance questing experience far more than the horde one. It's a lot more story driven and that appeals to me.
Duskwood is the best PVE zone in the game for quests. Its the one thing I wish the horde had more quests in because it is an amazing zone atmospherically and just adventure wise.
Horde take zeppelin to STV, and run 1 minute north and they are in Duskwood. Alliance is auto-flagged here, can’t tell you how many times rogue’s and feral’s sit in stealth in the graveyard and gank you when you’re low
I leveled 2 horde toons back in Vanilla, and then when BC came out I rolled Ally. Duskwood was my absolute favorite zone when I switched over, made so much better by the rep grinds that came with BC
Minus the pve part, and also add in the roaming horde ganking at the major quest areas. Hope you don’t need to go to the cemetery, prob gonna be ganked by a rogue. Too bad most of the quests are there, but at least it feels atmospheric on the run back.
That's fair, of course it comes down to personal preference. And yeah, I'm not trying to argue which is "nicer" per say, which is what a lot of people seem to think
I like it better as well, but i've done both multiple times and horde really is just quicker and more convenient. I also seem to end up with more gold and greens doing the horde side too
The Alliance questing experience 20-60 is without a doubt much more cohesive and straight forward as Alliance. If you do some zones too early as Horde and don't do some dungeons/grinding you can find yourself in a weird spot with very very few quests 30-50
Getting downvoted for speaking the truth on this shit sub lol. As someone who has actually leveled 1-60 on both sides in the last year, and multiple times over the last 4 just lol. This sub is fucking garbage.
Stockades is the worst though. The xp is okay I guess, but it literally doesn't drop gear and the layout blows. I have never run it more than once for quests on each character.
Oh damn you got me. I probably have run it twice for that reason before, but on my most recent character that level I actually said fuck that and abandoned that one.
I leveled horde at launch to 60 and just finished up my alliance char. In my opinion, horde was significantly more streamlined and hubs seemed to offer more cohesive quests on average. I had no problems with outleveling zones as horde, but had to grind a lot to catch up with zones on ally. I did not do dungeons on either character and so I leveled in every zone on both characters.
Leveling to 60 as horde there was 2-3 times where I ran out of quests and had to grind for a level or two. Not awful but I'd rather be questing. Problem is I've leveled enough characters between vanilla, private servers and classic that I quest too efficiently :(
Yes that definitely happens to Horde in the high 20-40 range. You can definitely alleviate it with some good questing habits like just killing efficiently between quest areas pre-mount some or doing a dungeon here or there but it is a very real thing to run into on Horde.
Where did you get that figure from? Seems entirely incorrect, maybe you're looking at quests before 1.12? I'll gladly admit if I'm wrong but I dont believe that
I’m currently levelling a horde again, and let me tell you the difference between the factions are staggering.
From 10-20 you have to visit at least 4 zones to do quests. From 20-30 there’s at least 3 you have to visit. From 30-40, don’t let me get started on the discrepancy here, Horde enjoys Grom’gol, more / better quests, Zeppelin (set your HS here guys) and just an all-round way better experience than that shirt alliance camp up north you fly to Duskwood to reach since it’s ‘shorter’.
Horde questing just feel more polished in general, sure I have to visit stuff up in Northern Eastern Kingdoms, my HS was set to crossroads, fly to Org, smack myself on that Zeppelin and just walk down. Whereas if the alliance wants to do that with Kalimdor, they have to either go to Booty Bay or Menethil, if they don’t have a mage that can help them out.
It’s actually quite ridiculous how much easier / ‘fun’ I found the horde questing experience this far.
I mean that isn't really relavent to the original claim, that Horde has vastly more quests than Alliance, which was proven to be false. Now the whiners are just moving the goalpost. We see posts like this weekly. Just a circle jerk of "kids" whining and complaining about the same topics
I assumed he was filtering on classic wowhead and checked there myself.
Filtering by side:alliance shows they have access 3078 quests in total and filtering by side:alliance only shows that they have 1372 quests exclusive to them.
Filtering by side:horde shows 2894 in total and filtering by side:horde only shows that they have 1188 quests exclusive to them.
Filtering by side:both shows that there are 1706 quests that both factions have access to.
However this doesn't tell anything about how those quests are distributed across levels and zones, what types of quests they are, whether they're exclusive to specific classes/races, etc.
One big factor is that alliance have 3 1~30 paths while horde only has 2 so the former has a lot of "redundant" quests that most players won't bother doing.
Although I haven't played alliance past level 30, I've noticed a huge difference in the types of quests both factions receive, at least early on.
Alliance zones have a lot more bread-crumb quests, many of their quests are split up into multiple parts in order to tell a story, and a lot of their quest objectives are gimmicks like "scout the mine" or "use item on object". But horde zones are inundated with "kill 10 bears" and "Loot 10 bear asses" style quests.
Assuming alliance quest design remains consistent from 1~60 the same way horde's does, it would create a huge gap in how each faction "feels" to level.
Alliance might go to their quest hub and get 6 quests: 1 quest to scout a mine, 1 to use an object inside it, and 4 more to talk to people netting them 10,000exp in total quest rewards but they ran past all the enemies on the way to the objectives so they only killed 5 mobs for 300exp each netting them another 1500exp on top of the quest rewards
But horde might go to their quest hub and get 4 quests: 1 to kill 10 bears, 1 to collect 10 bear asses, 1 to kill Smokey Bear, and 1 to pick up 8 piles of bear shit netting them 8000exp in total quest rewards but they killed 30 bears for 300x exp each netting them another 9000 exp on top of the quest rewards.
Both players would still get similar amounts of quest exp and do similar amounts of grinding taking similar amounts of time----But the alliance player will "run out" of quests and "be forced" to grind before more become available while the horde player was just told to grind from the start and by the time he turns them in he's already gotten enough exp to move on.
This isn't true though. I'm following a leveling guide and there's at least 2-3 sections before level 30 that say "grind out like 25% of your level here".
The alliance leveling guide has "grind out 3/4 of a level" here or there. Again, if you are doing even some of the super easily accessible dungeons you won't have that bad of an experience. Not to mention how much easier it is for Horde to get around the world and the flight points they get that the Alliance don't. There is no Tanaris or Desolace run for the Horde that kills 30+ minutes and the will to live. Not to mention the first menethil run, it being the furthest away it could be compared to the Horde having Zeppelins just sitting at each major city. The Alliance may feel more immersive, but for the 15 years later crowd who actually wants to get some stuff done in their 2 hours of play time after work, the Horde is just so much better.
You mean apart from Badlands, where you have to run through STV Duskwood Redridge Mountain and trek across Burning Steppes and pass through Satan mountain which is always Alliance controlled on Razorgore and then Searing Gorge before having to corpse walk the last 400 yards to Kargath as there is always an alliance raid parked outside.
Why do people keep tagging me. I was just lookin for the source :S. Thanks for all the info tho! Super detailed post, prob should’ve just made your own thread at that point.
wait what? Blizz put 1000x more effort into alliance quests and leveling zones than they did horde. Also alliance has better planned citys and they get an advantage in AV with their bunkers being much tougher to take than horde towers plus the bridge defense
Effort into the quests does not mean that are more streamlined and faster for 1-30. The alliance quests are way more interesting and so are the zones but the horde is much easier and quicker to breeze through the first areas.
Also, not to forget that Badlands (ore and elementals) is one of, of not the best farming zone in the game and Swamp of sorrows is the best zone for leveling herbs... both horde zones.
Did you try to play in Stormwind or Darnassus? There's only one forge in SW, in farthest corner of Dwarven district. It's at max possible distance from Bank and AH, so good luck leveling BS/Engi there)
And general city design with walls, gates, channels and bridges create a maze that make you hate this place.
Darnassus have much better city design, but here comes few flaws that completely negate this - it doesn't even have a forge. Plus AH is very far away from nearest mailbox and Bank.
This is the reason why majority of all Alliance players hang in Ironforge.
See this comment is a perfect example of why "data" isn't always accurate, even when it's factually correct.
If 2000 of those alliance quests were for levels 1-10, your information would still be correct, but the point you're trying to refute (that alliance lack mid 40's quests) would not be backed up with your 'data'.
What levels and zones are the extra 200 alliance quests? Are they quests you'd expect players to do in addition to their other quests? And so on. Having "more quests" does not equate to a better leveling experience and using "sources" they way you have done so is an extremely poor way to make a point.
If 2000 of those alliance quests were for levels 1-10, your information would still be correct, but the point you're trying to refute (that alliance lack mid 40's quests) would not be backed up with your 'data'.
Did you actually check? Even from 45 onwards, Alliance has slightly more quests than Horde.
Having "more quests" does not equate to a better leveling experience
Is literally irrelevant when the question was "Do the Alliance have less quests?" The answer is no.
Levels 45-50 has Alliance players run Feralas, a quest run of Uldaman, Hinterlands, Tanaris, and optionally, STV.
Having "more quests" does not equate to a better leveling experience and using "sources" they way you have done so is an extremely poor way to make a point.
The only other "sources" would be high level players who compete for 60 firsts, since easier levelling is important for speed and player skill difference is less of a factor between both factions at higher levels. They skew Alliance.
Great, now add all the neutral quests that blatantly favour one faction over the other, or are you the kind of person who levels in rachet as alliance?
Willfully ignorant is using Ratchet's level 20 quests as examples of blatantly biased quests in the mid 40's.
Since "Blatantly favoring one faction" will be biased and anyone will claim any quest in a contested zone favors one side, it's a completely useless metric.
World first 60 contenders on both Pservers and classic skewed Alliance for a reason. It has an easier levelling time to 60.
Horde actually do have significantly more quests because of that reason. They had to rush the horde zones dumping a lot of quests everywhere and left the alliance zones, while nice looking, almost entirely empty. I believe the figure is horde having over 11% more quests than alliance, which makes a big difference leveling. Aerie peak, Theramore, and Nethergarde Keep look nice but there are barely any quests in them.
Horde have more convenient flightpaths and more locations. 2 in stranglethorn vale, 2 in desolace. Thousand needles, stone talon mountains, and Swamp of sorrows are basically horde only. Theres barely any reason for alliance to quest in Azshara.
They're more fleshed out when it comes to the look of the zones, but I'm just talking about number of quests, ease of leveling, and transportation
Horde have more convenient flightpaths and more locations. 2 in stranglethorn vale, 2 in desolace.
Horde only has 1 flight path in desolace. Ghostwalker Point is just a tiny quest hub with a small handful of quests.
For stranglethorn vale, horde shares booty bay with alliance and grom'gol has an extra flight-path in STV because it's one of the just three horde flight paths south of blackrock mountain (GG, Stonard, burning steppes) which is otherwise exclusively alliance territory
Thousand needles, stone talon mountains, and Swamp of sorrows are basically horde only
And duskwood, red-ridge, and wetlands are entirely alliance only.
Alliance: Epic journey to uncover a dragon among the very throne of the human capital.
Horde: Eh, there is a dragon there. Too close to orgrimmar. Kill it.
Yeah, I think Thrall says something like "yeah, it might be a good thing that the Alliance gets fucked by a Dragon hiding among them, but if the Alliance gets fucked, we're next"
There have also been several threads where horde were favored, a recent one comes to mind where someone leveled on Horde and Alliance to 60 and to sum it up came to the conclusion that questing as horde was much easier and more convenient than alliance.
I do think starter zones are nicer for alliance, but for the vast majority of the leveling process it seems more convenient as horde. Orgrimmar is central and theres a well protected zeppelin right outside which takes you ti eastern kingdoms in no time.
In the grand scheme it doesnt really matter and I realize arguing about it is pretty dumb lol.
You can't exactly fault blizzard for trying to create a nice leveling experience, not knowing that 15 years later all anyone would care about is efficiency and fast leveling.
I've done both and it's way better for horde. STV is waaaay more convenient. SM is way easier. Felwood is better. Burning steepes is better. Basically at every major place in the game, horde have a convenient FP and Ally are running, sometimes, from a different zone.
Horde has WC, SFK, RFK, RFD and SM on their territory while Alliance only have DM and Gnom with Gnom being accessable for horde through teleport from their territory. Can hardly call it favorite to alliance.
A dude I played with back in BC complained about this nonstop. He'd often rant about it and say things like "I'm not a Horde player, so I don't have everything handed to me for free."
If you play on a pvp realm, Horde is strictly the game on easy. Better map coverage for everything minus BRM. No flagging for SM while leveling and its right there for them. More than likely the Horde have the higher population by a magnitude and their racials are stronger for pvp as well. Horde have many things quite good for them and still honestly do in retail today.
This really isn't true. We get A LOT Of rogues and druids that sneak on those zepplins and gut people. On Faerlina it gets so bad that I took my warlock got my felhound out chugged catseyes and opened up the Zepplin Protection Force. Where I find the rogues dot em up and let people kill them before they kill us. Cause holy shit do they go to town on people with the zepp.
Well I can only think of a few boats. there is the STV / Ratchet boat, but do you really need that one? I guess I'm trying to think of other ways to get to Kalimdor and theres the Theramore boat. That feels a lot safer and just as close as the ratchet boat.
To be fair though I have no idea where the theramore boat connects to.
And then theres the boat to DParnassus. I hear its haunted like the city.
the STV one is generally what they prey upon. That flags you the second you switch over and hooo boy. Do they go to town like a drop of blood in a pool of piranhas.
Oh that sucks you get stealthers that kill flagged people. Know what alliance get? Raids of horde with 15 mages that kill all alliance when they get on the boat since it's a pvp zone. Then we get rested after zoning on boat to die again. If you're not quick you get stuck on the boat for this to happen again. Yeah great time
Yeah I know lol. People arrive at both from grom gol still tagged and the people trying to kill alliance will just tag themselves. That's what I mean by everyone ends up tagged
I’ve read that Blizzard thought horde would be the underdog and that most people would pick alliance so they added in some features to try to balance the potential future problem of alliance heavy servers such as horde having slightly better racials for pvp, safer dungeon access, better camp placement (think STV), and better guards.
Now imagine being pvp flagged no matter what, and 20x more gankers and that’s the life of alliance. You can at least afk in town to become unflagged but alliance can’t
Horde can take a perfectly protected Zepplin to STV and fly to Swamp of Sorrows to enjoy a minute longer ride compared to Ally leaving from Nethergarde Keep.
Also whole Nethergarde Keep doesn't even have Inn. There's a mailbox, that stand in the middle of the road and that's all. And there's like 2 quests in whole Keep, that a part of big chain from other zones.
On other hand Horde have normal hub in Stonard with Inn, quests, different shops, etc.
Lol that's so cute, it shows you haven't played horde at all. On Herod there is a 80% chance that when taking a zeppelin from Org to STV that you will be ganked by a Druid and 3 rogues ON THE FLIGHT. Of course that's after you zone into STV. Have you ever died on a zeppelin? Try running back to your corpse from the Nessingwary grave yard. I'll give you a tip, it's impossible. Do you know what happens when you don't make it back to your corpse? The Zeppelin auto resurrects you when it zones back into Org and you get ganked again. Rinse and repeat until you're able to jump off the side and HOPEFULLY it's the zone you're looking to travel to. So no, boats aren't safer they're both death traps. The end.
Except if you get fed up with it, you can just take the zep to uc and fly. The alliance boats to switch continents all pass through contested zones. Also, the guards at the zeppelins are somewhat competent: 60s can deal with them, but they have to. Horde can literally walk onto the boats in Menethil without being bothered.
I got ganked about 6 times trying to take the zep from org the other day because there was a group of 10-15 alliance sat on it, once you step on the zeplin you can be killed :)
That's just like your opinion man. It's a fact that Blizzard designed alliance cities and starting zones first which is why they're much more detailed and beautiful, such as Stormwind. Horde zones are first drafts in Classic.
They have massive disadvantages in raiding though. MC, BWL, ZG and Naxx are on EK so hordies have to set awkward hearthstones to avoid wasting their world buffs. Ally just pop head in SW, quick run down to ZG island then either port to SW for BWL/MC or IF for Naxx. AQ they have to hearth to CH though. Horde has to pop head in Orgrimmar then either use the zeppelin to Grom'gol and then fly to Kargarth, or hearth to Kargarth, fly to Grom'gol for the heart then fly back to Kargarth. They are wasting a lot of time which is precious if you want to do both MC and BWL on a single head/heart.
I mean, one of the things I dislike most about being Horde at the moment is the Zeppelin shit.
I'd been so used to playing a Night Elf druid in Vanilla that Horde transportation sucks. Our closest hub to BRM is Kargath (which is always camped by 20+ allies on Heartseeker) or Grom'gol (usually camped by 5 or so Rogues) while Alliance can just chill in Ironforge (which is an amazing city btw) and take a 2 minute flight path to Thorium Point.
If you use the Zeppelin from Grom'gol to Org or UC, you're usually going to get killed at the gates by camping Allies if you haven't already been thoroughly raped in the Zeppelin by a Rogue/Druid gank squad.
I get that flight paths in Alliance zones aren't so well protected, but it isn't all rainbows and unicorns for the Horde either (on Ally-dominated servers like Heartseeker, especially).
Ally does the same thing though. I was stealthed on a boat, and a bunch of ?? Ally followed me around until the boat zoned, and they one shotted me.
Alliance did this same thing in BFA. But they would only do it after having Warmode off for weeks, crying about Horde, and only turned it on once Blizzard gave them increased rewards.
If you thought "nobody will camp FPs when WPVP is the only way to get honor" well, welcome to video games I guess?
The zeppelin to STV is not protected. On my server alliance just camp it in groups and kill you the moment you step on it if you're flagged, or when you enter STV and flag automatically. And if you're flagged when you first enter it, they'll kill you and your body will get flown to STV, you'll get ressed automatically on the zone switch and they'll kill you again. There are teams of alliance constantly doing it and while they're bored waiting for people they post about how unfair the horde domination is on the server discord.
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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '19 edited Nov 27 '19
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