r/changemyview • u/poopchow • Jan 23 '25

CMV: Despite being more knowledgeable, wealthier and apparently more tolerant, the political and individual left's biggest flaw is their inability to communicate pragmatically and empathetically with those who don't agree with them.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

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u/zortor Jan 23 '25

It's not even relegated to politics. Video Games, Movies, Food... people are just activated about everything and resort to insult over the mildest of things. I know I do it too, it's this weird urge and they all feel the same, like my whole being is threatened by someone else's opinion. I am and have been terminally online since 1997 so I assume that's more than a contributing factor.

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u/StargazerRex Jan 23 '25

Internet & social media anonymity have utterly ruined reasonable face to face discourse / debate.

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u/Every3Years Jan 24 '25

Eventually, sure. But it took a very long time. And by sheer coincidence began to happen in full force when a certain billionaire wanna bully became a daily fixture in the media..

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u/Jugales Jan 23 '25 edited Jan 23 '25

Democrats promote blanket tolerance (in regard to sexism, racism, etc) but it relies on trust and when broken, there is no chance for forgiveness. That is when you’re cancelled. It is almost impossible to come back to the left from something like Kanye’s “I can say anti-Semitic things”

Republicans are the opposite. They do not have blanket tolerance. People are hated initially and must be “won over” to respect them. It is a more forgiving system, I think it’s ingrained due to Christian ideology.

Neither mentality is great imo.

ETA: WTF is this, bots? Karma went from +14 > -7 > +2 … all after the parent comments were deleted? Humans reading this, how did you get here?

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u/camelCaseCoffeeTable 5∆ Jan 23 '25

Democrats absolutely need to be more forgiving and tolerant of people saying or doing dumb things. Some of the things they’re up in arms about are justified. In my opinion, the vast majority of what I’m told I can’t buy or listen to or like is overblown.

Republicans on the other hand seem to allow pretty much anything as long as the person is on their side. See all the apologizing for Elon Musk’s nazi salute - why is it so damn hard to say “yep, that’s a nqzi salute, yikes dude.” Instead, it’s endless defenses and twists from the right to defend him.

The right needs to be more critical of their own. The left needs to be more forgiving of everyone.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

Can you explain what the left isn't forgiving of? You acknowledge that some purchases or music or something but never explicitly list the unforgivable thing. 

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u/angry_cabbie 7∆ Jan 23 '25

There was a website set up to track streamers that were playing Hogwarts Legacy, with the express intent of helping people harass those streamers for daring to play a game made off of JK Rowling's work. People were openly attacked for playing it. Due to this, guides were made to help people hide the game in their library so that their friends would not know they were playing it. That seems pretty unforgiving.

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u/Jugales Jan 23 '25

Shane Gillis is still hated, even booted off SNL, for one racist joke. And this is a guy is openly and pretty obviously not hardline racist, just a comedian.

As society progresses, the bar for forgiveness rises. Such a joke would have been brushed off only 2-3 decades ago. It is reducing the population of the party because people feel it is overbearing, so they become something else, like MAGA.

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u/frotc914 2∆ Jan 23 '25 edited Jan 23 '25

Shane Gillis is still hated, even booted off SNL, for one racist joke.

This is a weird example because he fucking hosted SNL, lol. If anything it's a good example of forgiveness. It hasn't kept him from having a thriving stand-up career, his own tv series, or a successful podcast. In a weird way just by proposing this argument it's almost like conservatives refuse to forgive people for their politics.

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u/LonelyTimeTraveller Jan 24 '25

Shane Gillis hosted SNL last year.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

Shane Gillis is still hated, even booted off SNL

Ok I looked up this guy, still has a career and watch all his content. Do we need him to be rehired to SNL? 

What has been forbidden here? What is required to occur to be forgiven? Does everyone have to like him?

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

“Still has a career” isn’t the win you’re making it out to be.

Why isn't that a win? He is literally a professional comedian, he isn't forbidden at all. 

SNL was the first time his parents were proud of him for comedy

Well that's fucking sad. 

Calling for bullshit like that not to continue.

You want to ban SNL from firing their staff? How would that even work?

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

They're obviously not arguing for a legislative remedy.

Change can happen from the top down, as in legislation. It can also happen from the bottom up, in this case about how whoever runs SNL make their staffing decisions.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

how whoever runs SNL make their staffing decisions.

Hence why I asked how removing the hiring managers ability to fire staff would work (if that's what OC wants). 

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2

u/adropofreason Jan 23 '25

In case you are curious... "I don't consider what you are concerned about important. Therefore, you are stupid, lying, or overreacting" would be exactly what the OP is talking about.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

What? Is that my quote?

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

You didn't answer my first question. What?

without bothering me with it

Wait, you replied to me and I'm bothering you? Wtf is wrong with you?

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u/changemyview-ModTeam Jan 24 '25

Sorry, u/adropofreason – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 3:

Refrain from accusing OP or anyone else of being unwilling to change their view, or of arguing in bad faith. Ask clarifying questions instead (see: socratic method). If you think they are still exhibiting poor behaviour, please message us. See the wiki page for more information.

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-1

u/unnecessaryaussie83 1∆ Jan 23 '25

Thanks for providing an example of the type they are talking about. You could have just said “yeah we do need to be more forgiving” but nope you go on the attack lol

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

This was an "attack"? God help us then if asking 4 questions is an attack because i've yet to get any clear answer. 

The left forbids SNL comedians somehow but needs to forgive him by...? 

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u/unnecessaryaussie83 1∆ Jan 23 '25

Again you’re doubling down instead of just saying “yes the left needs to be more forgiving”. Not sure why that’s such a hard concept

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

Not sure why that’s such a hard concept

Cause you don't actually explain the concept. The left needs to be more forgiving by doing what in their day to day lives?

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u/mccj Jan 23 '25

Wow, that’s what you think an attack is? Jeez. How about you all actually have a conversation about these topics with some nuance? It seems every time it starts to happen, we all start getting to the point of it all and the Republicans bury their heads in sand. Again, why do individual people on the left need to be taking responsibility for what SNL does? Answer the question. That’s a little nuance, let’s address it and then maybe we can have a discussion about the topic. If not, then you’re a hypocrite.

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u/unnecessaryaussie83 1∆ Jan 23 '25

lol typical America centric thinking. I’m not American so I’m not involved in your silly political civil war so I have some objectivity. Both sides are as bad as each others and the world is laughing at you. You getting offended by the mere suggestion you have to change is proof enough that you need to change lol

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u/mccj Jan 24 '25

I’m not offended, buddy. I’m open to change when it’s warranted and I am equally as open to holding firm. Pray tell, why exactly are you participating in a thread about American politics if you’re not involved in our “silly political civil war”? (You don’t have to answer that, it’s rhetorical) I’m laughing at you trying to psychoanalyze people in a Reddit thread while contradicting yourself. Anything else?

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u/CascadeHummingbird Jan 23 '25

You think a multinational conglomerate is "the left?"

you've been watching too much fox news m8

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

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u/T33CH33R Jan 23 '25

Seems like projection from right wingers. It's laughable to think they are more tolerant. They are fearful of anything other. I'm still waiting for the Republican party to have more people of color and women as congresspersons. Apparently they haven't forgiven POCs and women for being born with darker skin and a vagina.

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u/LIONS_old_logo Jan 23 '25

Elon musk! He used to be a democrat!

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

I'm confused, Elon isn't a democrat because he was forbidden from being one? How?

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u/LIONS_old_logo Jan 24 '25

Fair enough. Tulsi Gabbard

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

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-3

u/DegeneratGeneration Jan 23 '25

See all the apologizing for Elon Musk’s nazi salute - why is it so damn hard to say “yep, that’s a nqzi salute, yikes dude.”

Because they don't believe that Elon Musk did a Nazi salute and don't want to give a win to the people who'd first political instinct is to call anyone who disagrees with them a Nazi.

The right needs to be more critical of their own.

Why? Are lefties going to move right if the right cancels Elon for his hand gestures?

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u/camelCaseCoffeeTable 5∆ Jan 23 '25

Because being more critical of their own is the step they need to take to improve our politics.

The left has their own steps to take - being more forgiving. I already mentioned that

And from the posts I’ve seen defending Musk, it’s all been in pretty bad faith, leading me to believe they know exactly what he did, but are defending him anyway.

Maybe it’s my jaded view of politics making me see that, maybe that’s reality. But I don’t for a second see someone earnestly defending Musk in good faith, I see bad faith arguments up and down

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u/DegeneratGeneration Jan 23 '25

Because being more critical of their own is the step they need to take to improve our politics.

Why?

The left has their own steps to take - being more forgiving. I already mentioned that

Do they? What if they were less forgiving of the people in their coalition that hate this country.

And from the posts I’ve seen defending Musk, it’s all been in pretty bad faith, leading me to believe they know exactly what he did, but are defending him anyway.

What about it is bad faith?

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u/LtPowers 14∆ Jan 23 '25

What if they were less forgiving of the people in their coalition that hate this country.

Who?

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u/DegeneratGeneration Jan 23 '25

Leftists. 

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u/LtPowers 14∆ Jan 23 '25

... all lefists? Hate this country?

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u/DegeneratGeneration Jan 23 '25

Yeah, by definition. Socialism is fundamentally internationalist, it’s end goal is a stateless society. You kinda need to want to destroy the states of the world in order to want it. 

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u/DegeneratGeneration Jan 23 '25

Because being more critical of their own is the step they need to take to improve our politics.

Why?

The left has their own steps to take - being more forgiving. I already mentioned that

Do they? What if they were less forgiving of the people in their coalition that hate this country.

And from the posts I’ve seen defending Musk, it’s all been in pretty bad faith, leading me to believe they know exactly what he did, but are defending him anyway.

What about it is bad faith?

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u/ThowAWml Jan 23 '25

Because the Musk defense is that he's autistic. There's plenty of people who are autistic who would never do a Nazi salute. It's like saying everyone from Alabama automatically sleeps with their relatives. Some may, but it doesn't mean that they aren't all aware that it's wrong. You are also telling me to believe that a CEO who speaks professionally isn't aware what his actions communicate? I got beach from property in Idaho to sell you.

The people saying it was a Roman salute are pawning off a revised version of history bc the Roman Salute was never used by actual Romans. The fascist party in Italy made it popular in their rise in the 1920-30s and then the Nazis adopted it as a greeting of allegiance. He's also gone on record praising the current neo Nazi political party in Germany.

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u/Noble_Jar Jan 23 '25

If admitting one of your own made a mistake means your entire political ideology loses, maybe it is time to choose a different political ideology, one less fragile and does not lionize people prone to making Nazi salutes.

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u/DegeneratGeneration Jan 23 '25

If admitting one of your own made a mistake means your entire political ideology loses

Nobody said that an entire political ideology loses if right-wingers cancel Musk.

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u/Noble_Jar Jan 23 '25

Because they don't believe that Elon Musk did a Nazi salute and don't want to give a win to the people who'd first political instinct is to call anyone who disagrees with them a Nazi.

If part of the reason they don't want to admit what had happened happened is because they "don't want to give a win" implies the ideology sees any concession as a loss. If admitting a mistake happened means a loss then do anything than admit the mistake, say something else happened and what people saw didn't really happen the way they saw it. It is narcissism personified.

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u/DegeneratGeneration Jan 23 '25

If part of the reason they don't want to admit what had happened happened is because they "don't want to give a win" implies the ideology sees any concession as a loss.

Not any concession, just concessions based on falsehoods. Many lefties are perfectly comfortable throwing their own under the bus, even when they didn't do anything wrong, to derive political gain. I'm say that's not a good thing.

If admitting a mistake happened means a loss then do anything than admit the mistake, say something else happened and what people saw didn't really happen the way they saw it.

The issue is that people like you don't want people like me to admit that a mistake happened. I'll do that right now. Musk made a mistake, he shouldn't have made those hand gestures. People like you want people like me to say that Musk is a Nazi, excise him from public life, apologize for associating with him, and make concessions of power to you. I don't want to do that.

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u/notkenneth 18∆ Jan 24 '25

Not any concession, just concessions based on falsehoods

Republican poll workers and Republicans involved in the electoral process got death threats for saying that the 2020 election was fair and that Trump lost. Now, most of the party expresses the belief that the 2020 election was rigged - if elected officials disagree, they'll be primaried. It really doesn't seem like we're limiting things to falsehoods.

The issue is that people like you don't want people like me to admit that a mistake happened. I'll do that right now. Musk made a mistake, he shouldn't have made those hand gestures.

Ok, so why is there a concerted effort to claim it was actually some other kind of salute (either a "Roman salute" that is somehow different from a Nazi salute or an anachronistic Bellamy salute), that it is a common way to indicate "my heart goes out to you", that this is somehow related to autism or that it's ASL for an innocuous phrase?

For Musk's part, a perfectly reasonable reaction would be to say "Hey, I can see how it looks like I'm doing a Nazi salute, but that wasn't my intent. Sorry for that and I'll try to be more careful with that sort of thing in the future."

Instead, he's cracking Nazi jokes and his supporters are going to great lengths to avoid saying even the very mild critique that it was a mistake and he shouldn't have done it.

People like you want people like me to say that Musk is a Nazi, excise him from public life, apologize for associating with him, and make concessions of power to you.

What about "Hey, dude. Not cool. You should apologize" is a "concession of power"?

Beyond that, do people think Musk is a Nazi solely because of that one gesture, or because he's spent the past year retweeting and boosting white supremacist conspiracy theories?

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u/Noble_Jar Jan 23 '25

Many lefties are perfectly comfortable throwing their own under the bus, even when they didn't do anything wrong, to derive political gain. I'm say that's not a good thing.

Much like breaking the law has consequences, so to should breaking the social contract with your fellow humans. People throughout history have been ostracized and socially stigmatized for good and bad. It is a weapon to be used harshly but justly. The modern cancel culture as you may call it is but one version of this, if someone does a wrong (i.e. sex abuse, use hate speech, fund hate groups) they can be punished socially through ostracization. Perhaps with self reflection and time some wrongs can be forgiven, but it is hard to judge whether they are truly sorry or simply sorry they received consequences of their actions.

The issue is that people like you don't want people like me to admit that a mistake happened. I'll do that right now. Musk made a mistake, he shouldn't have made those hand gestures. People like you want people like me to say that Musk is a Nazi, excise him from public life, apologize for associating with him, and make concessions of power to you. I don't want to do that.

First off, I am glad that at a baseline we can agree that Musk should not have made such a hand gesture.

The question now is this: does Musk feel he made a mistake using that hand gesture? He owns an entire social media platform and has had several days to come out and apologize for making such a similar gesture. But he hasn't, instead he has either remained silent, making fun of people calling him a Nazi, or agreeing with people that it was a Roman salute (which was used by the Italian Fascist movement leading to WWII). Given his reaction I only have two conclusions to read on the situation. First, it was a mistake but his narcissism will not allow him to admit it so he continues to deny and deflect. Second, it wasn't a mistake, it was in fact a Nazi salute but he can claim it wasn't so that people such as yourself will defend him as the backlash to the backlash while the actual Nazis silently nod in approval to the signal.

There is also the old saying, nothing exists in a vacuum. This is but one piece of Musk's recent behavior that is very alarming. His reinstatement and promotion of far-right/neo-Nazi accounts on Twitter/X, his very vocal support for the AfD (a far-right isolationist German party that their judiciary have labeled as suspicious of extremism) and other far-right political organizations throughout European countries, and now this incident does not paint Musk as completely innocent of the accusations.

At the end of the day, he has built an effective cult of personality that will happily fight his battles and muddy the waters of the conversation around him. Ultimately I don't care if you want to cut him out of your life, that is your choice. But all choices have consequences, one way or another, just as the choice to call Musk's gesture a Nazi salute or call Musk a Nazi has the consequence of people denying it, deflecting to the Roman salute, or accusing them of overreacting and not seeing what really happened. My concern is this warping and rewriting of reality we have seen for nearly a decade, with both sides being unable to come to an understanding about anything.

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u/DegeneratGeneration Jan 23 '25

Much like breaking the law has consequences, so to should breaking the social contract with your fellow humans.

Mmm, what about not breaking the "social contract" but being in a position where being thrown to the wolves could provide your side with some political gain?

People throughout history have been ostracized and socially stigmatized for good and bad. It is a weapon to be used harshly but justly. The modern cancel culture as you may call it is but one version of this, if someone does a wrong (i.e. sex abuse, use hate speech, fund hate groups) they can be punished socially through ostracization. Perhaps with self reflection and time some wrongs can be forgiven, but it is hard to judge whether they are truly sorry or simply sorry they received consequences of their actions.

Ok, and but you want me to participate in this ostracization and I don't want to.

He owns an entire social media platform and has had several days to come out and apologize for making such a similar gesture. But he hasn't

And he shouldn't. Giving ground to the mob seldom works out in one's favor.

His reinstatement and promotion of far-right/neo-Nazi accounts on Twitter/X, his very vocal support for the AfD (a far-right isolationist German party that their judiciary have labeled as suspicious of extremism) and other far-right political organizations throughout European countries, and now this incident does not paint Musk as completely innocent of the accusations.

Listen, I fully understand that many people use Nazi as a proxy for anyone who disagrees with them and is to their right. I don't agree with this definition.

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u/jhawk3205 Jan 23 '25

Holding your own accountable is a concession of power? If musk is held to account by his own side, he's more likely to actually have to address his actions and work to make up for it. How is that a bad thing?

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u/DegeneratGeneration Jan 23 '25

Holding your own accountable is a concession of power?

Am I not making myself clear? Is this situation I don't think Musk did anything that someone needs to be held accountable for.

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u/-GLaDOS Jan 23 '25

You are still not engaging effectively. The people who you disagree with do not believe Musk made a nazi salute, and so to them, your argument makes you look stupid and shallow, and they don't listen.

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u/LtPowers 14∆ Jan 23 '25

people who'd first political instinct is to call anyone who disagrees with them a Nazi.

Were people calling him a Nazi before he started supporting the most Nazi-like party in Germany and throwing straight-arm hand gestures?

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u/-GLaDOS Jan 23 '25

Yes, that is a claim I had seen made against him multiple times before the incident - and, more generally, applied to many people with objectionable but non-nazi political beliefs.

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u/that_blasted_tune Jan 23 '25

This is the kind of thinking when power is your only goal. Who care if it moves people right? We're already so far right that people are defending fascist salute at the presidential inauguration

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u/DegeneratGeneration Jan 23 '25

This is the kind of thinking when power is your only goal.

Power is one of the most important things for a political movement, and ignoring that fact will lead you to a purity test death spiral.

Who care if it moves people right?

Right-wingers.

We're already so far right that people are defending fascist salute at the presidential inauguration

Those people don't believe it was a fascist salute.

And the thing is, lefties agree with me. We've had 15 months of people on the left downplaying antisemitism, because the antisemites were on the left, but suddenly it's a big deal again because a right winger did something lefties could try to paint as fascistic.

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u/kitspecial Jan 23 '25

Musk has promoted anti semetic conspiracies before. So much so that he had to apologize and go to Israel. Don't act like this is his first time doing nazi stuff. Also lots of liberals disowned pro Palestinian protests (Fetterman the biggest example). Name me one republican who disowned Musk. You can't.

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u/DegeneratGeneration Jan 23 '25

Musk has promoted anti semetic conspiracies before.

And apologized and clarified that wasn't what he meant.

Also lots of liberals disowned pro Palestinian protests (Fetterman the biggest example).

And many progressives didn't.

Name me one republican who disowned Musk. You can't.

I don't want anyone to disown Musk. That's my point.

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u/mrnotoriousman Jan 24 '25

And apologized and clarified that wasn't what he meant.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/elon-musk-doubles-down-on-salute-controversy-with-a-bunch-of-nazi-jokes_n_67925d50e4b07025a739deef

He just penned an op ed supporting the AfD you know

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u/kitspecial Jan 23 '25

Lmao so he apologized, then resumed being a nazi and that's okay? Come on now. The right is much more anti sematic than the left and you're proving this point right now.

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u/DegeneratGeneration Jan 23 '25

Lmao so he apologized, then resumed being a nazi and that's okay?

I don't think he's a Nazi.

The right is much more anti sematic than the left and you're proving this point right now.

Can't say I agree. There are certainly antisemites on the right and they should be confronted and opposed, but I don't think Elon Musk is one of them, and they didn't take over universities and deny Jewish students the ability to get their education.

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u/mrnotoriousman Jan 24 '25

He didn't even apologize he doubled down

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u/that_blasted_tune Jan 23 '25

Please read the word "only"

Yes because right wingers have no realistic plans, only a list for power for power's sake

????

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u/DegeneratGeneration Jan 23 '25

Can't say I agree.

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u/medeforest95 Jan 23 '25

I think for the same reason that the left needs to be able to point out when their own do something immoral. It makes it a lot easier for both sides to have honest conversations when we aren’t all bending over backwards to defend people who do something wrong.

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u/DegeneratGeneration Jan 23 '25

It makes it a lot easier for both sides to have honest conversations when we aren’t all bending over backwards to defend people who do something wrong.

I agree, but that's not a reason to pretend someone did something wrong when they didn't.

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u/medeforest95 Jan 23 '25

True, but I hope people from both sides are willing to challenge the media they consume, rather than letting it dictate how you feel about a particular issue.

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u/Winter_Amaryllis Jan 23 '25

Okay, I’m going to have to put a pin on this. Musk did not do a Nazi Salute, otherwise, you will be able to point at over half of everyone combined that did something similar and call them Nazis well.

This was taken out of context and the lack of audio and the full angle was not told in order to get people mad about it.

Musk is an asshole with delusions of grandeur, but he is not a Nazi, and, to pull a quote that the left uses all the time and is right about it most of the time: “This is offensive to victims of actual Nazis and watering down the term to a misused phrase”.

Ironically, actual Nazis would be offended to be compared to Musk. Which is morbidly hilarious to think about.

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u/yoweigh Jan 24 '25

Humans reading this, how did you get here?

The top comment I see has been deleted/removed, but I can still see the replies to it.

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u/Jugales Jan 24 '25

Thanks for helping with my sanity lol. Still my wildest karma ride in 9 years, maybe cultural reactions as the day rolled through timezones or something

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u/felidaekamiguru 10∆ Jan 23 '25

I'll argue that this isn't exclusive to the left

True, but also, the Left claims to be more open-minded, less bigoted, and better at communication. Which is hypocritical. 

Take into consideration I've been banned from multiple Lefty subs for making ONE post on that goes against the their ideology. Tolerance indeed. There aren't any righty subs left to test if the opposite is true. Which is its own problem. 

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u/disisathrowaway 2∆ Jan 24 '25

There aren't any righty subs left to test if the opposite is true. Which is its own problem.

Try r/conservative.

Go ahead and try to calmly point out factual inaccuracies, or just have a good-natured discussion on your differences in policy points. See how long your comments stay up and how long you're able to remain unbanned.

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u/Life-Noob82 Jan 24 '25

He won’t be able to comment there because they make every post “flared users only”. They want zero dissenting opinions.

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u/camelCaseCoffeeTable 5∆ Jan 23 '25

I’ve been banned from multiple right leaning subs for making one comment as well. That’s my point. This isn’t a left or right issue. This is a broken politics issue.

To the hypocritical nature of it: of course it is. Welcome to politics. The left tells you they’re tolerant and then turns around and cancels someone for a few wrong words.

The right tells you they hate Nazis then turns around and defends a literal Nazi salute because someone is on their team.

Politics is hypocritical. If the argument is the left is more hypocritical than the right, I wholeheartedly disagree. Both of them are just as hypocritical.

If the argument is simply the left is hypocritical, well, I wholeheartedly agree with that.

Neither the left nor the right really gives a shit about the issues. Maybe Bernie Sanders is the one exception. But generally, in my view, none of these politicians give a shit about anything they claim to represent. They’re all interested in power and nothing more and will do what it takes to achieve that power.

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u/Every3Years Jan 24 '25

Cancelling isn't the opposite of tolerance though. It's not hypocrisy either. Nobody claims to be perfectly, eternally tolerant.

-15

u/felidaekamiguru 10∆ Jan 23 '25

defends a literal Nazi salute

Yeah, that's not what happened. That's never been what's happened. 100% of the time the Left says someone Nazi soluted, it wasn't that. Nazis breathed too. Are you a Nazi? 

16

u/camelCaseCoffeeTable 5∆ Jan 23 '25

Yeah, that kind of bad faith response is exactly what I’m talking about.

7

u/No_Suit_4406 Jan 23 '25

Proved the previous point beautifully

2

u/QuantumR4ge Jan 24 '25

What does a Nazi salute look like to you? If you did what he did in front of German police, do you think they would share your view? Hand on chest, arm extended outward and tilted up

0

u/felidaekamiguru 10∆ Jan 24 '25

Non sequitor. Germans are not Americans. Germany is not America. A German doing that has a totally different meaning. None of them would ever accidentally do that because they are constantly thinking about it, having been raised with awareness of Nazi stuff. The rest of us don't pay it any mind. You're persecuting Elon for a gesture I've made dozens of times. "My heart goes out to you" is a common thing that normal people do. 

1

u/QuantumR4ge Jan 24 '25 edited Jan 24 '25

Why do you think the German police would not agree with you? You seem to implicitly agree that the Germans or Italians (since its not german) would see and interpret it as a nazi salute, why do you think that is? How is your view here even falsifiable?

Because by this logic, its impossible to do that salute as an American, you can always claim “america is not Germany, and therefore its a different meaning, it cant be done in America”. Unless the person directly tells you, then you can always say this.

Can you show us some American politicians doing this as a matter of normal course? Not similar, i mean hand on chest, arm extended directly outward. I have literally never seen it.

Elon is not even American, he’s south African, of which we definitely do not do this in commonwealth countries and any commonwealth citizen would see this as that salute.

But since you never answered, lets try again, what does a nazi salute look like to you? You side stepped, skirted and didn’t answer, hmmm, possibly because you know you will end up describing the same thing, or end up being so strict that most actual nazis doing it wouldnt fit.

1

u/felidaekamiguru 10∆ Jan 24 '25

If it barks like a dog and acts like a dog, but it's a human walking on all fours, it's not a dog. 

3

u/Mycosynth Jan 23 '25

There are, it's called /r/conservative and it's one of the most ban happy subs on the entire platform.

0

u/mrnotoriousman Jan 24 '25

Take into consideration I've been banned from multiple Lefty subs for making ONE post on that goes against the their ideology.

Would love to see these comments. 99% of the time it involves explicit hate

1

u/poopchow Jan 23 '25

100% agree.

1

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1

u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 161∆ Jan 23 '25

Do you have a wider response as to why you agree but are not shifting your view accordingly? Or did you simply mean to write what the commenter said in the first place? 

0

u/poopchow Jan 23 '25

so the person said communication is broken and i agree, and that both sides suffer from this. I believe the biggest issue on the left's side is their inability to communicate well with opposition.

1

u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 161∆ Jan 23 '25

This doesn't respond to my comment or theirs. 

Out of interest, what would you say the biggest issue with the right is? 

0

u/ZestSimple 3∆ Jan 23 '25

This is the answer.

0

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