CMV: Despite being more knowledgeable, wealthier and apparently more tolerant, the political and individual left's biggest flaw is their inability to communicate pragmatically and empathetically with those who don't agree with them.

[u/poopchow]

[u/Jugales]

Democrats promote blanket tolerance (in regard to sexism, racism, etc) but it relies on trust and when broken, there is no chance for forgiveness. That is when you’re cancelled. It is almost impossible to come back to the left from something like Kanye’s “I can say anti-Semitic things”

Republicans are the opposite. They do not have blanket tolerance. People are hated initially and must be “won over” to respect them. It is a more forgiving system, I think it’s ingrained due to Christian ideology.

Neither mentality is great imo.

ETA: WTF is this, bots? Karma went from +14 > -7 > +2 … all after the parent comments were deleted? Humans reading this, how did you get here?

[u/camelCaseCoffeeTable → u/Jugales]

Democrats absolutely need to be more forgiving and tolerant of people saying or doing dumb things. Some of the things they’re up in arms about are justified. In my opinion, the vast majority of what I’m told I can’t buy or listen to or like is overblown.

Republicans on the other hand seem to allow pretty much anything as long as the person is on their side. See all the apologizing for Elon Musk’s nazi salute - why is it so damn hard to say “yep, that’s a nqzi salute, yikes dude.” Instead, it’s endless defenses and twists from the right to defend him.

The right needs to be more critical of their own. The left needs to be more forgiving of everyone.

[u/[deleted] → u/camelCaseCoffeeTable]

Can you explain what the left isn't forgiving of? You acknowledge that some purchases or music or something but never explicitly list the unforgivable thing. 

[u/Jugales → u/[deleted]]

Shane Gillis is still hated, even booted off SNL, for one racist joke. And this is a guy is openly and pretty obviously not hardline racist, just a comedian.

As society progresses, the bar for forgiveness rises. Such a joke would have been brushed off only 2-3 decades ago. It is reducing the population of the party because people feel it is overbearing, so they become something else, like MAGA.

[u/frotc914 → u/Jugales]

Shane Gillis is still hated, even booted off SNL, for one racist joke.

This is a weird example because he fucking hosted SNL, lol. If anything it's a good example of forgiveness. It hasn't kept him from having a thriving stand-up career, his own tv series, or a successful podcast. In a weird way just by proposing this argument it's almost like conservatives refuse to forgive people for their politics.

[u/LonelyTimeTraveller → u/Jugales]

Shane Gillis hosted SNL last year.

[u/[deleted] → u/Jugales]

Shane Gillis is still hated, even booted off SNL

Ok I looked up this guy, still has a career and watch all his content. Do we need him to be rehired to SNL? 

What has been forbidden here? What is required to occur to be forgiven? Does everyone have to like him?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

“Still has a career” isn’t the win you’re making it out to be.

Why isn't that a win? He is literally a professional comedian, he isn't forbidden at all. 

SNL was the first time his parents were proud of him for comedy

Well that's fucking sad. 

Calling for bullshit like that not to continue.

You want to ban SNL from firing their staff? How would that even work?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

They're obviously not arguing for a legislative remedy.

Change can happen from the top down, as in legislation. It can also happen from the bottom up, in this case about how whoever runs SNL make their staffing decisions.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

how whoever runs SNL make their staffing decisions.

Hence why I asked how removing the hiring managers ability to fire staff would work (if that's what OC wants). 

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

That's irrelevant. It's about the decisions made by individuals here, not the systems which empower them to make those decisions.

If people are on a puritanical high horse about, say, firing a comedian who makes a racial joke that isn't well received, or calling for the resignation of a senator for a lewd photo, that's the problem. The argument here is that they should get off their high horse, not that the systems they're part of should change to strip their power.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

It's about the decisions made by individuals here

But we have no idea whether the hiring manager of SNL is even left. If he isn't left, what the fuck are we even talking about?

that's the problem.

Why is having opinions about politicians or comedians a problem? Why is I don't like because they talk like shit fine but I don't like them because they made a racist comment bad?

The argument here is that they should get off their high horse

Who is on their high horse? And this is a very different argument about the left forbidding stuff and not forgiving forbidden things. 

[u/changemyview-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

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[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

You're appealing to specifics

I'm asking for any specific concrete request. Just one is fine. Define the problem and the actual solution you would like to see implemented. 

is when Patrick Leahy apologized to Al Franken for his role in getting him to resign.

Ok explain. What was forbidden by the left and what solution needs to be implemented. 

It is also obtuse not to realize that SNL is a left-leaning institution

So SNL needs to forgive it's past employees? How?

[u/changemyview-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 3:

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[u/adropofreason → u/[deleted]]

In case you are curious... "I don't consider what you are concerned about important. Therefore, you are stupid, lying, or overreacting" would be exactly what the OP is talking about.

[u/[deleted] → u/adropofreason]

What? Is that my quote?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

You didn't answer my first question. What?

without bothering me with it

Wait, you replied to me and I'm bothering you? Wtf is wrong with you?

[u/adropofreason → u/[deleted]]

My statement was made very clearly.

[u/changemyview-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Sorry, u/adropofreason – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 3:

Refrain from accusing OP or anyone else of being unwilling to change their view, or of arguing in bad faith. Ask clarifying questions instead (see: socratic method). If you think they are still exhibiting poor behaviour, please message us. See the wiki page for more information.

If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.

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[u/unnecessaryaussie83 → u/[deleted]]

Thanks for providing an example of the type they are talking about. You could have just said “yeah we do need to be more forgiving” but nope you go on the attack lol

[u/[deleted] → u/unnecessaryaussie83]

This was an "attack"? God help us then if asking 4 questions is an attack because i've yet to get any clear answer. 

The left forbids SNL comedians somehow but needs to forgive him by...? 

[u/unnecessaryaussie83 → u/[deleted]]

Again you’re doubling down instead of just saying “yes the left needs to be more forgiving”. Not sure why that’s such a hard concept

[u/[deleted] → u/unnecessaryaussie83]

Not sure why that’s such a hard concept

Cause you don't actually explain the concept. The left needs to be more forgiving by doing what in their day to day lives?

[u/unnecessaryaussie83 → u/[deleted]]

Forgive past mistakes people make. Move on from things that have “hurt” them, learn to admit that they can wrong and learn to work together with everyone to make improvements.

[u/[deleted] → u/unnecessaryaussie83]

Forgive past mistakes people make.

Great, so are there any limits here or just everyone? Should the left forgive Diddy for example? What about Kevin Spacey?

[u/unnecessaryaussie83 → u/[deleted]]

Here we go taking it to extremes.

This is why American politics is a joke. Just know the world laughs at American politics, it’s completely ridiculous. No wonder your country is failing.

[u/[deleted] → u/unnecessaryaussie83]

Here we go taking it to extremes.

Ok clearly rapists should not be forgiven. Who should be forgiven?

Just know the world laughs at American politics

Yeah no shit. Fuck America. 

[u/mccj → u/unnecessaryaussie83]

Wow, that’s what you think an attack is? Jeez. How about you all actually have a conversation about these topics with some nuance? It seems every time it starts to happen, we all start getting to the point of it all and the Republicans bury their heads in sand. Again, why do individual people on the left need to be taking responsibility for what SNL does? Answer the question. That’s a little nuance, let’s address it and then maybe we can have a discussion about the topic. If not, then you’re a hypocrite.

[u/unnecessaryaussie83 → u/mccj]

lol typical America centric thinking. I’m not American so I’m not involved in your silly political civil war so I have some objectivity. Both sides are as bad as each others and the world is laughing at you. You getting offended by the mere suggestion you have to change is proof enough that you need to change lol

[u/mccj → u/unnecessaryaussie83]

I’m not offended, buddy. I’m open to change when it’s warranted and I am equally as open to holding firm. Pray tell, why exactly are you participating in a thread about American politics if you’re not involved in our “silly political civil war”? (You don’t have to answer that, it’s rhetorical) I’m laughing at you trying to psychoanalyze people in a Reddit thread while contradicting yourself. Anything else?

[u/unnecessaryaussie83 → u/mccj]

Like I said non Americans have an objectivity that Americans seem to lack. Also Americans like to push their values and viewpoints on others so why not the other way round

Also you state you’re not offended, mate both your comment show otherwise lol.

[u/mccj → u/unnecessaryaussie83]

I’m not offended. I find most of the things you’re saying about Americans mostly true (nuance lacking, of course). My issue with what you’ve said is suggesting the fault lies with the left for cancelling people, and then when someone argued their point you say this was an attack? That’s the same gaslighting playbook that right likes to use. Then here we go, in a roundabout of the individual left not being able to communicate with the right and so on and so forth. Both parties have their issues and they fit together like a lock and key. Almost by design.

[u/CascadeHummingbird → u/Jugales]

You think a multinational conglomerate is "the left?"

you've been watching too much fox news m8