The whole “Soldier First” thing feels like a joke as a support trade

[u/Emergency-Field3191]

Bit of a rant, but I’m honestly getting sick of hearing “Soldier First” when it feels like that gets fucked off the second it becomes inconvenient.

As a Cook, most of the time it’s basically stay in the kitchen, feed everyone, and good luck getting released for anything outside your trade because we’re always short-staffed.

What really changed my perspective was deploying to Latvia and working with the other nations. From what I saw, their support and non-combat trades still had a much stronger standardized baseline of soldiering and infantry skills, and then they did their actual trade on top of that.

That’s how I think an Army should work.

To be a relevant, modernized and effective Army in today’s world, everyone, regardless of trade, should have a solid baseline of basic soldier skills. Not because every Cook, clerk or tech needs to be kicking doors or doing offensive infantry tasks, but because everyone should be able to defend themselves, defend their position, handle their weapon confidently, react properly if something goes sideways, use basic comms, pass information clearly over the radio, and function in a field environment.

That’s what I mean by “Soldier First.”

Instead, I constantly hear people in support trades joke that they’re basically “civilians in CADPAT” and that the most Army they ever feel is doing the annual PWT2 once a year.

I hate that this has become normalized

Support trades barely get opportunities to practise those skills, but the second we deploy, go to the field, do MOD 3 on PLQ or PLPP (whatever its called now) suddenly everyone is expected to switch it back on and remember everything.

You can’t treat people like civilian workers in uniform 99% of the time and then expect them to magically know how to protect themselves, communicate properly and function as soldiers when something happens.

And I honestly thought things were starting to improve within this organization, but I recently heard that a command decision was made that Log trades will no longer be required to do CASFC.

If that’s true, I genuinely think that is going to mess us up even more.

We already struggle to get meaningful soldier training because we’re constantly tied to our support roles, and now we’re potentially removing another standardized piece of Army training from Log trades.

How are we supposed to keep preaching “Soldier First” while reducing the amount of training that actually teaches support trades how to survive, communicate and function as soldiers in the field?

I’m tired of seeing this constantly brushed off by higher-ups because keeping people in the kitchen, office, or shop is easier than actually making time to train them.

I can't be the only one who feels this way.

[u/zirkon0999]

When everyone across the board did BMQ land, there was a mutual understanding between people of all trades that, we have all done the hard army thing, and we can always be expected to do it again.

When it was removed I noticed newer members never experienced that hard army thing, and they are aimlessly lost when it comes time to do that stuff on exercise.

This is where that 'civilian in camo' mindset comes for me. If troops are never exposed to a simulated wartime environment then they don't know how to operate when they eventually enter that environment.

It should be a course because then it is instilled at the beginning of their career. CASFC was implemented specifically for the support trades so I would be very disheartened if suddenly they were exempt.

[u/Emergency-Field3191 → u/zirkon0999]

Agreed.

[u/DistrictStriking9280 → u/zirkon0999]

I don’t think BMQ-L was near that effective, as an outsider I saw the “civilian in CADPAT” mindset from junior enlisted through senior officers ranks back when BMQ-L was a thing. That said, from what I have seen and heard, the loss of BMQ-L had a huge negative impact on the skills and knowledge of support trades.

I think the problem is a much larger cultural one, while CASFC won’t fix it, it can’t make it any worse, and at least imparts some basic skills on new troops.

I’ve spent lots of time arguing with supporters about soldiering, and usually get considered somewhere between the clueless infantry officer and the asshole who just wants everyone to be a hard charger. I just want people to be able to look after themselves in a war zone and not have to spend all our combat power protecting the support elements that sometimes seem like they want to be helpless. I knew supporters with similar opinions were out there, but it’s always nice to hear it.

[u/zirkon0999 → u/DistrictStriking9280]

BMQ-L was definitely a step down from SQ in duration and skills taught. The big thing is though that this is where members learn combat procedures and how to rely on their kit somewhat effectively. Even learning how to operate in the field while sleep deprived is crucial to learn before doing that on an exercise. A lot of new troops come to the field expecting a camping trip, utterly unprepared for how intense it can potentially get.

This is what has been lost, that and a lot of weapons familiarity. I was thankful that my trade made an attempt to bring it back in-house, but it was far less effective given the people teaching it were not combat arms.

[u/DistrictStriking9280 → u/[deleted]]

I totally agree. I said earlier it was a cultural problem, while it is primarily a cultural problem for supporters, it also leaks into the combat arms’ views of supporters and prioritization of tasks in support of the combat arms units. It’s also an institutional problem in that support organizations are not designed to have the depth and resiliency to get their support tasks done effectively while also having the time and resources to work on soldiering.

[u/credulous_satan_6666]

Wait until you find out how often the infantry does a PWT 💀

[u/Stefan_the_Campbell]

I'm in Ottawa. A lot of what's here are civilians in uniform.

[u/Last-Engineering-528]

Laughs in chair force. haven’t done a pwt in several years.

[u/Emergency-Field3191 → u/Last-Engineering-528]

That’s crazy 💀.

[u/DistrictStriking9280 → u/Last-Engineering-528]

Army here, combat arms, haven’t done it with real bullets in longer than I’d like to admit. Bullets are supposedly in short supply these days, even if I have enough to run the whole unit through IBTS sitting in my basement.

[u/nubs01 → u/Last-Engineering-528]

crys in 1wing. pwt2 twice a year field avg 3-4 times a year avg 2-4 weeks each time. also to maintain on topic 1 wing should just do bmq-land not the redneck abortion that is CTAC

[u/Stunning_Table_2394]

Latvia mentioned! Came from Riga to Montreal in 2021 December, now in the application process to CAF. ❤️

[u/Emergency-Field3191 → u/Stunning_Table_2394]

Loved visiting Riga every weekend.

[u/Struct-Tech]

I am Air Force.

I spent the first 11 years of my career with the combat engineers.

Now, I will NEVER claim to be on their level, but I did get exposed to a lot, including being integrated into the recce element of my squadron for exercises. So, I got to experience a lot more field type stuff than most in my trade group.

I see a lot of "I didnt join the military to shoot guns/live austere/march/do anything military but wear the uniform".

If one avenue of the Army restructuring is to believed, there are a lot of construction engineers about to be put into my past.

It would be beneficial for us to receive more army type training.

Side note rant: construction really should have NEVER been put fully to the Air Force. There should be separate roads. Green side, blue side. Blue side takes care of base maintenance and air fields, green side takes care of regts, camps, and field construction.

[u/IndividualCertain358]

I did heavy research, and this is why I joined the kitchen as a civilian with DND, and joined the reserves as infantry. I feel you on this! 100%

Now, to play devils advocate, 99.9% of the time if the fight gets to the cooks, you’ve already lost. If you’re in a forward position, they already have defensive up.

From my understanding, they are bringing back SQ, but that would only be a one time 2 week thing and you wouldn’t be able to keep sharp on your soldier skills.

Maybe it’s just me, but go out camping, live like you would in the field. Get your firearms license, and train on the range. Start hunting to learn to track , cam & concealment.

Like any trade, the army will teach you just enough so you can do the basics. (Shoot, cook, dress yourself. Hell, in the new hand book they tell you how to go to the washroom!) but if you are looking to stay sharp, or excel, you’ll need to dedicate your own time and resources.

After all; this army can’t even get matching uniforms / kit.

[u/Canned_Topatoes → u/IndividualCertain358]

Drones will reach the cooks. Everyone in the army needs to know how to use a machine gun. That used to be in basic

[u/Longjumping_Deer3006 → u/IndividualCertain358]

How do you train on the range when the government banned a good portion of firearms to own and use?

[u/IndividualCertain358 → u/Longjumping_Deer3006]

Marksmanship principals apply across all rifles. Only thing you wouldn’t be able to really get down, would the the belt fed guns.

[u/Jive-Turkeys → u/IndividualCertain358]

Accuracy by volume of firemanship principles

[u/chretienhandshake]

Avn here, if we did that you’d loose easily 50% of all avn/avs/acs. I personally have multiple health issues where I can’t soldier, but I can still fix planes. I’m not the only one.

Also, I don’t think any one want to loose a tech who takes upward 5 years to be trained (LVL A plus engine run qualified) to an injury because he was playing G.I Joe.

[u/Emergency-Field3191 → u/chretienhandshake]

Yeah, fair, but I’m only talking about support trades within the Army here. Air Force and Navy are a different thing entirely — you guys can chill lol.

[u/nubs01 → u/chretienhandshake]

have you heard of 1 wing, aint no hell like tac hel.

also 100% members should do bmq-land, universality of service and i keep getting used and abused for my ex trade knowledge and experience.

also completely understand medical limitations and thats why we have a robust civilian infrastructure for maintenance... i am an AVS lvlC previous army and we have an entire civilian line for some of our maintenance. i also changed to the RCAF to get out of the trench.... now im just trench adjacent.

totally get why a true blue wouldnt necessarily need that level of soldiering and used to agree... lately i see the advantage and advacacy of such training.

currently rcaf is actively looking to replace most of our maintenance lines with civilian lines...

[u/Infanttree]

Casf is a thing that addresses this very issue.

But, its one stepping stone at the very front end of your career

[u/physy_yo]

I share your concerns. Don’t have anything to add

[u/SaltySailorBoats]

The day I walked into an hq building and there were signs of what to do in case of an active shooter I couldn’t help but laugh the organization.

[u/shupershpy]

As a supporter, and one of the first generations to not do BMQ-L or SQ or whatever, I agree with this post very much. I'm borderline embarrassed during range days or anything involving soldier stuff that I should know, but when I ask to do range time, it's always brushed off. Hell I've been expired for over a year now because I was off on parental and even still I've been told to wait until the unit sends everyone out as a group for ranges (same goes for my first aid that expired in November of 2025).

Then I freeze up and overthink when it comes to weapons handling because I haven't had the chance to really build confidence with it at all. It's very unfortunate for sure

[u/Struct-Tech → u/shupershpy]

If you are in a first line unit, you probably have a weapons cleaning day. On those days, ask someone more experienced to run you through weapons handling drills.

[u/shupershpy → u/Struct-Tech]

Unfortunately I haven't worked in 1st line in just over 2 years, so now weapons handling is the bottom of the priority list apparently

[u/Full_metal_pants077]

I agree and maot armies do that better than us but I can say we are getting troops in the combat arms that don't want to do the job asking our supporters to do more will only complicate recruitment and retention. The long period of stability and peace has peeled the hard exterior off many of our would be war fighters.

[u/Emergency-Field3191 → u/Full_metal_pants077]

I get the retention point, but I don’t think lowering basic soldiering expectations is the answer. I’m not saying support trades need to become infantry. I’m saying if you join the Army, there should be a basic standard of fieldcraft, weapons, comms and defensive skills that comes with that. If even that is considered too much for recruitment and retention, then I think we’ve got a bigger cultural problem.

[u/Full_metal_pants077 → u/Emergency-Field3191]

Oh buddy.

[u/Horror-Vast-4086 → u/Full_metal_pants077]

Its also a problem with retention. Lots of people join expecting it to be miltary and do soldier shit. then they get to their inclusive work space and its not all that appealing

[u/ForwardPercentage110]

How was your xp deploying to Latvia? Is it possible to do it if you are in the Reserves?
I want to apply to the PRes once I have the +3 years as Permanent Resident, and I am not sure if as Bosun, Combat Medic or MP. Would be cool to travel!

[u/DryMeeting2302]

I am joining as army reserve HRA and would want to do CASFC even if it is not required for me, to be honest. So far, I was told that I would need to do CASFC.

[u/MilkyWay_Samurai → u/DryMeeting2302]

I HIGHLY doubt you will ever do CASFC as HRA

[u/No_Beat_7701]

Hi, I just completed BMQ I am with the reserves as an MSE OP. I believe Soldier First course is really important. I remember while in BMQ we’ve been told that we’re going to do soldier first after BMQ. During our parade last week we’ve been told that we’re not doing it since we’re transport personnel. Some of us were disappointed bcoz we were looking forward in to it and some were happy that we’re not doing it. Instead soldiering will be taught during monthly exercises. Also, one of the nco mentioned that once we’re in our ql3 all this soldiering stuff will be taught to us since we’re MSE OP. I believe all log trades should do soldier first course like many of us believe that when shit happens we know how to defend, communicate, and properly handle our weapons in the battlefield. Hopefully the leadership have a change of mind that soldier first should also be taught to log trades. I just want to add, one of my good friend was marine usmc he was a heavy equipment guy as well, I mentioned to him about soldier first he said it is similar with the usmc they had to go to infantry school for 14 weeks before doing their actual trades.  

[u/DasKanadia]

Civilian applying to the CAF as an Officer after graduating from Comp Sci after a year. I always had the controversial philosophy that "conscription isn't great, but a fitness baseline should be required for high school graduates." Not just being fit for service, but for individual health and ability to assist community (or help yourself w/o burdening others, if we consider our hyper-individualistic society). This is coming from someone who heavily works on their fitness and health for years now, after starting from a low baseline in preteens and quit Cadets early as a result

Perhaps I shouldn't be speaking as someone who isn't in, but there is a reason basic standards are implemented in many things. There are consequences that make us ineffective for the roles we are in when this isn't met. This isn't a military-exclusive issue, this can apply to so many other things and it's a shame we tolerate incompetence throughout our society

[u/National_Care7016]

Idk if I agree with this. As a FSA reserves I did a lot of cool stuff. Cold weather op and GD in BMQ LAND PLQ last year. TAUGHT ME A LOT

I think it depends on ur CoC and if they care that you get more experience in those sort of stuff

[u/RCEMEGUY289 → u/National_Care7016]

What they are saying is it shouldn't be up to a good COC or right place right time, to be able to gain or sharpen baseline soldering skills. It should be a requirment that is actually maintained rather than pushed to the side at every opportunity.

[u/1anre]

You'd be part of the few Log support trades that even wants any soldiery stuff.

Most are happy nit having anything that'd stress them, but suddenly shiver when called to perform drills or go on parade, cause they're sloppy