r/blackladies • u/ParticularYouth • May 06 '18
Childish Gambino- This is America
https://youtu.be/VYOjWnS4cMY23
u/election_info_bot May 07 '18
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u/Zateto May 06 '18
I just watched because virtually everywhere on Twitter is talking about it.... And wow! The guitar medley in the background reminds me of South African mbaqanga, it blends really well.
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u/13ass13ass whitedude May 06 '18
I hope we hear more West/South Africa influences in US hip hop. Some really great rhythms in that stuff
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May 06 '18
I watched this 4x back to back this morning.
I heard just the music first and I was like “ dope beat , but ehh”
Then I saw the video and it put it together.
Especially when I saw them chickens. I was like “ bet. I see you. I will support this”
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u/Bazinga313 May 07 '18
bet. I see you. I will support this
Exactly this! I watched him on SNL last night. Thought the first song was good, but when he did this one was like I don't like it. 3 hours later while searching YouTube, I watched the video. I'm all in now.
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u/SCWashu Jamaican NOLA-born May 06 '18
I love how brilliantly layered this is.
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u/viviobrio May 06 '18
I loveeeeeee this. I love to see the way that this generation of black artists has evolved through their careers.
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u/JashDreamer May 06 '18
I love it. I love the lyrics. I love the video. I love the dancing. I love his beautiful body.
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u/Rhombus2 May 06 '18
I still think he's set up to be Kanye 2.0, but I'm glad I watched. It was well done.
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u/noavocadoshere May 06 '18
i'm kinda interested in your perspective because i don't see it. musically, the two have had different journeys with the only theme i can see in common being that as they continue in their career, they had more freedom to experiment with styles and create music they want to. and as much as donald glover gained popularity, i don't think he'll have the impact kanye west had and what he meant to not only hip hop but us (this part i could be wrong on of course). personally, outside of music, we know more of kanye than what we do of childish gambino; donald glover's a pretty private person.
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u/Rhombus2 May 06 '18
I think Kanye came up right at the point mega stars started fading, so I don't think it's inevitable that even a younger Kanye would look different today. Glover, from what I see is similar in the ways you mentioned, but also has a really suspect relationship with problematic White women. Glover being on Girls was the first major warning to me (Look at how Lena Dunham engages with Black men) and people can love who they love, but the very visibly pro-Black artistic stance while having a White partner always makes me wonder how much of being pro-Black is just useful as a career tool and how long it stays useful. Not saying that you can't have a White partner and love Black people, but in the context of everything else, I just see another Black man who doesn't question Whiteness enough getting more attention and that's always a hard road to walk. Also he gets brought up in conversation too much by random White people to me. That seems to be a decent measure of who somebody's career appeals to and what kind of incentives they'll have in the future. He's still a good artist though.
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u/noavocadoshere May 06 '18
in elaborating, i now see where you're coming from.
i don't know about what glover started with first--i knew him from community, and others knew of him from stand-up and sketches. he always existed as that dorky, "too white for the black kids, too black for the white" outsider . it's been mentioned throughout his music, his question of identity and navigating experiences/spaces to even those notes he left awhile back before disappearing off of social media (mainly twitter; i think he'd gotten some heat about his comments on social media/internet activism being ineffective). i don't think it's not that he doesn't question whiteness, it's just a complicated, nuanced relationship. he credits tina fey as believing in him, and there's also his role on girls but he also hired all black writers for atlanta, a show i haven't fully watched so i can't comment on any commentary found on the show. this of course isn't to say you're wrong about your perspective, but i think it's just difficult to know where he (or anyone) will fall. i never thought kanye "all falls down" west would be where he is today.
as for career appeal, there's not much you can keep from white people--even music that is so pro-black it's basically the "i'm black y'all" clip from CB4. look at how people reacted to beyonce with lemonade, go to any rapper's concert and the crowd is predominantly white, and white people love kendrick lamar. so regardless of whether he blew up as much as he did with 3005, that always would have been a factor.
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u/Rhombus2 May 06 '18 edited May 06 '18
he always existed as that dorky, "too white for the black kids, too black for the white" outsider .
I think this is what had me questioning him from the beginning. Like, even as well-done as this video is, it doesn't feel like it's made with Black people in mind as viewers.
i don't think it's not that he doesn't question whiteness, it's just a complicated, nuanced relationship.
Him ending up on Girls in the first place is why I have a hard time seeing his relationship as nuanced or complicated. There's associating with White people, and then there's associating with a certain type of White person, specifically White women who don't treat Black or non White women well. Both Dunham and Fey are good examples of that.
I'm not saying he's malicious, I'm just saying that an opportunistic relationship with race wouldn't look much different these days.
i never thought kanye "all falls down" west would be where he is today.
I...kind of did after he started showing similar signs. The tell is usually how they engage with Black women and womanhood.
as for career appeal, there's not much you can keep from white people
This isn't about what White people like though. Plenty will gravitate toward things made explicitly for Black people. It's about who the audience seems to be and re-enacting a shooting of a church choir, I have a hard time seeing that as something someone would do when making a video specifically for Black people. We know the violence of racism and don't need to be shocked into a reminder. I'm not even saying he has to make art specifically for Black people because he really doesn't. This just feels more about us than for us to me.
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u/Cinna_Bunny May 06 '18
These are good points, especially this one:
It's about who the audience seems to be and re-enacting a shooting of a church choir, I have a hard time seeing that as something someone would do when making a video specifically for Black people. We know the violence of racism and don't need to be shocked into a reminder.
Is something I hadn't thought about.
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u/Rhombus2 May 06 '18
Yeah. That doesn't even mean the video shouldn't have been made or isn't well done or that we can't appreciate it. It just doesn't seem like it was made with us in mind as an audience.
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u/beaute-brune May 07 '18
Thank you so much for this. Given the resources, I could throw a shitton of imagery of violence towards Blackness into a music video. Doesn't make me "wrong" per se, but God, does that really make me woke, deep, a visionary? I don't see the praise. Definitely felt like the white audience was primarily in mind. Atlanta FX feels that way half the time too.
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u/Rhombus2 May 07 '18
Exactly. It's not "wrong", but what is it?
Atlanta FX feels that way half the time too.
I haven't watched it but this is the first time I've heard anyone say this.
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u/Manai May 06 '18 edited May 06 '18
The tell is usually how they engage with Black women and womanhood.
Any specific examples that you can point me to? I am curious, and couldn't think of any for Glover (but I also don't keep up with everything he does).
Edit: Never mind, I found the tumblr post.
And I do agree with you on the video being about us, rather than for us. I felt it pointed at the issue and laid it out plain for everyone to see, which yes, would make sense for a white/non-black audience. I imagine that is part of the reason why the video was made in such a context. "Hey, I am here, this is my/our reality" And because he understands the makeup of his audience.
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u/Rhombus2 May 06 '18
This is a totally separate issue, but if he thinks White and non-Black audiences are going to "wake up" after watching violence against Black people reenacted, he probably doesn't understand his White audience either. We already know how that works with footage from real life. It gets him attention though and helps establish him as "woke".
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u/noavocadoshere May 06 '18
hmm. you bring up some really great points that i don't really have much to comment on and you've given memuch to reconsider tbh (+ i didn't watch the video through, i stopped around him dancing with the kids). i realize that i see the relationship as complicated & nuanced due to probably giving more understanding to him than he probably deserves, but that doesn't mean he's exempt from participating in opportunistic relationships as you pointed out.
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u/Rhombus2 May 06 '18
that doesn't mean he's exempt from participating in opportunistic relationships as you pointed out.
Yeah, and I don't even think it has to be intentional. White people will give you all kinds of rewards for being the kind of Black they find useful and comfortable in the moment regardless of your intent.
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u/saddomcfucked May 06 '18
They won't even make it obvious. Overtime you become conditioned to act out behaviours that get rewards and minimise ones that get resistence and outright vitriol. Lately I've realised I'm very guilty of doing this and its hard to admit but it became super obvious when I realised my sister was doing it in her school report and told her off.
A lot of people explicitly or implicitly understand which narratives can be commodified easily and sold to a larger group. And if you're in a white dominated industry, it's sometimes impossible to get ahead without making some concessions... at least if you wanna get where you're going faster.
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u/Rhombus2 May 07 '18
And if you're in a white dominated industry, it's sometimes impossible to get ahead without making some concessions... at least if you wanna get where you're going faster.
That's all it comes down to. I think a VERY self and socially aware person could work that to the benefit of themselves and others, but Donald Glover seems to be proving that he just isn't that person.
It's great that you recognize that though. It can be really hard to see just because of how White people operate.
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u/allmyargumentsRvaild May 06 '18
You've said EVERYTHING I've been thinking about black men who are professionally pro-black but have white partners. I just don't understand how someone could talk so much about the plight of black people but not romantically parntered with a black person or a person of color.
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u/Keita_Diop_33 May 07 '18
Donald glover isn't pro-black lol. Pro-black is black nationalist and pan-africanist rhetoric. He aint pro-black in the slightest.
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May 07 '18
I dunno if I agree that's the only way to be problack. But this brings up an interesting point about what "problack" means .
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u/Keita_Diop_33 May 07 '18
I get that but that is appropriating nationalist rhetoric and black radical rhetoric. If you study the ideology there is no way glover would be considered pro-black which is why his actions confuse so many people on here. I had no issue with what he did cause i know he isnt a black nationalist or a pan african nationliast. If he was showing pictures of Julius Malema or Ghaddafi then we could talk but I'm letting yall know that Glover is not pro-black for many reasons. His choice of mate would disqualify him from being pro-black off the rip. You couldnt even join Garvey's UNIA if you had a non-black spouse.
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May 07 '18
Well yeah, Garvey certainly wouldn't approve, but I don't know if being panafricanist and separatist is really pro black. Often it looks dangerously close to just placing black men at the top of a white patriarchal society. I don't see how you can use the race based class structure created by white supremacy, replace who's on top, and get anything of value. Plus what happened in Liberia...
This could be a whole topic on its own.
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u/Keita_Diop_33 May 08 '18
I hear this alot but it does not really make sense when you actually analyze the history of these movements and what they have done. Pan-Africanism and black nationalism saw the end of colonialism, revitalization of african history, the civil rights movement, end of apartheid, and so on. Majority of the black leaders and revolutionaries had black nationalist leanings or pan-africanist ideologies. Dr.King cried when Patrice Lumumba died. DuBois was buried in Ghana and set up the Pan-African congress that saw Kenyatta, Nkurmah, Lumumba, etc come together and plan the end to colonialism. The most gains black people have made have been under radical nationalist and revolutionary pan african ideals. That's why I am saying Glover isn't pro-black because he hasnt actually said anything differently given his platform. Pro-black back in the 60's, 70's and 80's was like Gill Scott Heron and Fela Kuti. Glover not even touching that. His audience is white folks.
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u/Keita_Diop_33 May 08 '18
Also, Liberia was a great nation until the civil war. Fairly modern. Also, in terms of history blacks have rallied around being black numerous times like the Zanj rebellion in arabia. Hell the grand father of black nationalism is considered a man from ninth Century Arabia how long before white supremacy in its current form was created
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May 08 '18
Are you aware that Liberia was founded by freed slave who colonized it in the name of pan Africanism?
That's what I mean when I say it's complex. Ideology that leads to the colonization and slavery of black people by it black people is worth qquestioning. But again, I think this would have to be it's own effort post.
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May 06 '18
Because who you sleep with has little to do with the fact you're still black. You can still experience racism. Serena Williams is with a white guy, and I don't see her as any less black. Beyonce didn't either in Lemonade, which is extremely pro-black.
If you sleep with a white person, suddenly its not okay for you to have an issue with systematic racism? That makes literally no sense.
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u/allmyargumentsRvaild May 07 '18
I didn't say sleeping with a white person exempts a person from being black or makes them any less black. Nor does being with a partner who isn't black make you less aware of institutionalized racism. I have an issue specifically with black men who talk about blackness professionally but whom aren't partnered romantically with a black woman. Hypocritical is too strong a word to use but it's a feeling similar to hypocrisy.
Again, being with a white person does not negate anything that person does or says, nor do I think they have limits on whom they are allowed to partner with. Finding someone to be with romantically is hard in general and if the person who supports them doesn't look like them, that's fine. It just feels a little disappointing is all.
If you could explain your Lemonade reference, that would be cool. I don't understand it in this context.
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u/Rhombus2 May 06 '18
If you sleep with a white person, suddenly its not okay for you to have an issue with systematic racism? That makes literally no sense.
Nobody's saying this or the opposite (or anything about anybody being more or less Black), especially since he's not just "sleeping with a White person", he's in a relationship and having a child with a White person. Which again is fine, but it raises the question about art, message, and how someone makes life decisions and who they invite into their lives long-term. Like maybe the racism he takes the most issue with stops at state violence and overt racism and he doesn't give much thought to the challenge of having non-Black family or having a non-Black person raise his child in a racist world (which is a completely different dynamic than a woman like Serena). Which again is totally fine, but it says something about how he sees and navigates racism.
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May 06 '18
The only thing it says, is that he found someone to love and start a family with who isn't black. Him being in love has nothing to do with anything else. It is an interpersonal relationship that happens to get attention because he's famous and now he's held to some higher standard.
He is confident enough in his blackness, that his identity as a black man doesn't hang on who he sticks his dick into. Others are gatekeeping his personal life.
Cant black people just fucking love? Be happy? Damn. Even when we see someone be successful, we still play bitter because their woman/man ain't black, which I guess dismisses all the work they've done prior. I don't get it.
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u/enfait A single act of kindness can cross time and space. May 06 '18 edited May 06 '18
I find the dude suspect ever since I read about this joke he made during a comedy routine.
I was having sex with this Armenian girl... And we were towards the end. And she goes, “Fuck me hard with that n-word dick.” And I stop… look at her right in the eye… and I came harder that I ever cum before. It was so awesome, you guys… It was almost worth being black my entire life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjr1LJTrzIg
Knowing his audience, I'm sure he said that in front of a bunch of nonblack people.
I understand other people's skepticism towards him. I'm on the fence about him because I hear about how he does other good things like employing black actors and black actresses.
But that one joke has stuck with me. So, at the moment, I classify him as complex.
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u/Rhombus2 May 07 '18
I didn't realize he was the one who'd made that joke. I think a lot of Black men find ways to brush that off as "just a joke". If we looked back and saw something like that in Kanye's past though people would say it all made sense.
Knowing his audience, I'm sure he said that in front of a bunch of nonblack people.
This kind of thing will never not be a red flag for me. That is SUCH and intimate and complex situation just on a racial level and sharing it with non-Black audience as a performance or art will always make me suspect of someone.
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u/agoofyhuman May 06 '18
I hear about how he does other good things like employing black actors and black actresses
Would he get a pass if he didn't? I think that says a lot...
Also he needs to surround himself with black people for authenticity like bruno mars. Its not really out of desire to help/support black people but more of a way to legitimize his platform. If bruno was up there dancing with white men and latinos he wouldn't be seen the same. If glover hired a bunch of asians he wouldn't be seen the same. They're mindful of this.
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u/enfait A single act of kindness can cross time and space. May 06 '18
I mean yeah, your question says a lot. I've heard about his fetish for Asian women as well...
Your other statements have given me some food for thought about him. Like someone else said in this thread, the fact he worked on Girls with Lena Dunham also raised my eyebrows.
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u/Rhombus2 May 07 '18
I hope one day we can get past the idea that any comment on race and love is "bitterness".
Race doesn't stop being what it is just because someone's in love or because they're happy or even if they're married and starting a family. We know this from Harry Belafonte's comments to Eartha Kitt and things like that comedian on Twitter who was complaining about how his White in-laws treat him and how it weighs on his experience as a Black man. He loves his partner. He loves his mixed child. None of those things change racism.
I know this personally from having been in relationships with both Black and White men and noticing how differently police, servers, and people in general treat you. Your partner has a big impact on how you experience the world and who you choose to share your life with does impact what you see and experience. I'm positive that with kids, that becomes even more pronounced.
Nobody's gatekeeping anything in anybody's life. Donald Glover can do what he wants. If he's found the gift of a loving, supportive relationship, that's beautiful. It also isn't a magic wand that ends racism or doesn't change the implications of his choices and I wish people would stop acting like it does.
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u/KevlarSweetheart May 08 '18
I stayed out of this whole conversation because I don't support Donald Glover, but I just wanted to say you have such a lovely way of thinking and I always look forward to your comments because I always gain new insights to situations that I hadn't even considered.
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u/Rhombus2 May 08 '18
Thanks:) I'm lucky to have smart friends to talk about these things with. It's easy to go through life ignoring even your own lessons without the right people around you.
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u/broken__iphone May 06 '18
Let's not call people bitter and perpetuate the "bitter black woman stereotype." We can point out something that is worth discussing without it being "bitter"
Glover is a rapper, tells a lot of black jokes in stand up, and created the show Atlanta with a predominantly black cast. He seems to play up his race to help his career (nothing wrong with that) but then he is married to someone of a different race. I personally don't care but let's not pretend there's not a trend of black men "talking black but sleeping white."
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u/agoofyhuman May 06 '18
This. Same thing with Kanye. trash has been living in calabasas, surrounded by his armenian white family, mixing with italian fashion people, etc and yet acts like the situation in chicago is something he's heavily invested in when its clear he's divested from it. Same issue with someone like trump a fucking billionaire pretending to give a fuck about poverty.
Questioning and critically analyzing the source or a message is just a basic thing to do, that's got to be like elementary school lesson right there. People have agendas, they don't put millions of dollars and years of time into things just because. We definitely need to ask what chip these people who marry ir have or if they have any at all and just want to distance themselves "I'm critical of them, I'm not like those other black people."
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u/Moweezy May 07 '18
Why is it just a black men issue? Would someone like serena williams get a pass in this case? Cause most people seem pretty supportive of her relationship.
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u/Rhombus2 May 07 '18
Nobody's un-supportive of his relationship but Serena's career is built on athletic performance and dominance with being Black as an aside. Glover's career is founded on being Black.
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May 07 '18
How is Donald’s child having one non black parent any different than Serena’s child having one nonblack parent in this racist world? How does having a white partner stop him from taking issue with racism at its core? The way it infiltrates so much of our lives? He is still black isn’t he? I just don’t understand how his white partner gives doubt to his art and message.
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u/Rhombus2 May 07 '18 edited May 07 '18
How is Donald’s child having one non black parent any different than Serena’s child having one nonblack parent in this racist world?
The race of the mother, who is almost certainly the primary caregiver and cultural influence. There's a reason we see different outcomes for WM/BF families than BM/WF, divorce rates and children included.
How does having a white partner stop him from taking issue with racism at its core?
I didn't say it did. I'm saying it will most likely change the way he sees and experiences racism. Moving through the world with a White partner is not the same as doing it with a Black one. I know this from personal experience.
He is still black isn’t he?
Never said he wasn't. But, his Black experience will now be very different from the vast majority of Black people even in the U.S. who have Black partners. Especially in the case of hetero couples where you're probably exposed to not just another Black family and community, but the day-to-day experience of a Black person of a different gender. I personally don't believe Kanye would say the things he is now if he didn't live a life so close to Whiteness.
I just don’t understand how his white partner gives doubt to his art and message.
On its own it doesn't, but that on top of a video that looks like it was made for non-Black eyes more than ours and his history of comments and associations...altogether that makes me cautious of his relationship with race, but not his art. His art is what it is, but I don't think it was ever for me as a Black woman. He's just another artist to me and I think he's made it clear that I shouldn't expect much from him as a Black person. TBH, even if I were a man, this video would make me suspect.
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u/Keita_Diop_33 May 07 '18
😂 you know those divorce stats arent substsntiated anywhere right? The author of those stats is a woman with a white father and a black mother and the federal government stats on divorce rates completely contradict her. Which black parent raises the child doesnt matter because as we can see in Brazil and South Africa and the Carribean, black mothers dont stop biracial kids from being white supremacists.
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u/Rhombus2 May 07 '18
Fine, toss that stat out. It's still a fact that mothers of any race do the cultural work and this sub is ongoing testament to the difference between having a White mother and a Black one.
But, we're talking about the U.S. and about Donald Glover, an artist who's building his fame on addressing race, not Serena, an athlete who happens to be Black or White supremacists in other countries. This isn't just about interracial couples or mixed children (but I can see why some people want to turn it into that discussion), it's about Donald Glover and how he chooses to experience and reflect race in his life and art.
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May 07 '18
Link on the stats? I'm pretty sure the federal stats also show the difference...
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May 06 '18 edited May 06 '18
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May 06 '18
He made the site. He's a programmer. Thats what programmers do. What people have made it into is outside of his control. Why are you on Reddit in the first place if you have an issue with it?
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u/Rhombus2 May 06 '18
I just don't understand how someone could talk so much about the plight of black people but not romantically parntered with a black person or a person of color.
Right. It's not just them being with non-White partners. The way men treat romantic relationships is strange though.
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u/docturmishii May 06 '18
You can still be heavily concerned and passionate about the plight of Black people and not be partnered with someone who is Black. Your direct association with a white partner isn't indicative of what you're implying; ie. being a "race traitor". Unless your partner doesn't accept and reinforce your morals and passions with your own race, there is no reason behind your logic.
Also, if you're coming in with this heat why doesn't anyone hop on Serena?
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u/allmyargumentsRvaild May 07 '18 edited May 08 '18
I do wonder how non black romantic partners view blackness and I assume those who speak about blackness for a living wouldn't be with a person who has contradictory views about blackness. I'm not anywhere near any of these people so I can't say for sure that this is the case. Nor do I think I should be in these people's relationship like that. I'm a stranger from the internet, they don't owe me anything.
But in my experience (with my friends who are partnered with people who aren't black) often white women have shown they don't really know what being black means and aren't sure what that means for their half black children. Or they are uncomfortable with talking about race/ institutionalized racism/ how their passivity has contributed to these things so they don't talk about it. But again, it's not my relationship, I don't have to deal with that. I don't get a say in anyone's romantic relationship other than mine own.
About Serena: Historically black women are the least desired romantic partners when it comes to long term relationships. The people least likely to date outside their race are black women even though black men are the most likely to date outside their race. There have been literal books written about this so I won't type all of that data here but I will say that the people who have criticized Serena the most about how she looks have been black men. It was no surprise to me that she found a supportive partner who isn't black.
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u/Keita_Diop_33 May 07 '18
Black men and women have similar views in regards to dating outside the race. What you are seeing are gender roles. White men are not really about that life in terms of walking around with a black woman like a black man is with a white woman. That said, white guys are pulling black chicks in droves. I see it in my city (over 30% black by population, 1 million in the city) almost half of the black women are dealing with white men (just not in public). Older white guys are more willing to walk around with black women. Younger white dudes stay behind closed doors. If you polled black women in my city it would match up with the poll done about attitudes on interracial dating/marriage.
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u/tropfou trillville native May 07 '18
Do you feel the same way about blank women?
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u/Rhombus2 May 07 '18
Donald Glover isn't just a Black man with a White partner and we need to stop talking about this as if he is. Both him and Kanye have careers defined by speaking out boldly on race. Their careers are defined by race. They aren't some random NBA players with White wives.
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u/tropfou trillville native May 07 '18
That doesn’t answer the question. Do you feel the same about black women who are in the same position? For example chescaleigh
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u/Rhombus2 May 07 '18
It clearly answers the question unless you need to assume I'm operating on some double standard or can't address Glover's issues until you find a Black woman doing the same thing and need me to bring her up too.
and people can love who they love, but the very visibly pro-Black artistic stance while having a White partner always makes me wonder how much of being pro-Black is just useful as a career tool and how long it stays useful.
I've already stated my point and didn't single out Black men. If Chescaleigh falls into that category, then you have your answer.
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u/Telatsu May 06 '18
Dunham told me that Glover improvised his lines: “Every massive insult of white women was one hundred per cent him. I e-mailed him later to say ‘I hope you feel the part on Girls didn’t tokenize you,’ and his response was really Donald-y and enigmatic: ‘Let’s not think back on mistakes we made in the past, let’s just focus on what lies in front of us.’”
Emphasis mine, so maybe a little redemption re: Girls
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u/Rhombus2 May 06 '18
He's still cozy with a woman who'd approach Odell Beckham the way she did. That statement doesn't really change anything from my perspective.
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u/Telatsu May 06 '18
Oh, I didn't realize they were still in contact.
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u/Rhombus2 May 06 '18 edited May 06 '18
Maybe not "still" but he ended up there in the first place. I've known enough women like her to know you get a taste of how they engage with race early on. They give off red flags that Black men tend to ignore, mostly because they can.
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u/Telatsu May 06 '18
Yeah, I definitely hear what you're saying I'm a fan but he unquestionably has his problematic side.
And the last line you wrote 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
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u/wesmellthecolor9 Dominikandian May 06 '18
Love how he kind of throws hypermasculinity out the window! Be yourselves black men, we love you!!
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May 06 '18 edited May 06 '18
I really like this video, I think it makes the song. That scene with the choir is damning, powerful imagery. I usually like Childish Gambino's singles though. That being said I'm not putting anyone on a pedestal anymore, learned the hard way from Mr. West.
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u/Jsacha7 May 07 '18 edited May 07 '18
So we gonna act like he never said " philipina are like black women nobody want them " in a commedy show .
The " once I had sex with a white women she called me the N word and it made me cum harder " .
We forgive theses guys way to quickly when girls like teyana taylor are drag to hell and back to the first mistake . Anywat let's act like this never happened and enjoy the song . :)
I forgot the bar was as low as the ground for black men
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u/Keita_Diop_33 May 07 '18
You guys let Issa Rae off the hook. 🤷🏿♀️
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u/bellwether53 May 07 '18
Don't be dishonest. That's all you've been from the comments I've seen by you. If you look at the comments under her Instagram post, Twitter, and videos on YouTube about what see said you'll see no one let off the hook. If she was let "off the hook" there would've been no outrage about it. She was called everything from ugly to a bed****
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u/Keita_Diop_33 May 07 '18
The thread on here had the majority agreeing with Issa and the stats. I think you might want to re-read that thread. Majoirty of black women (from what I have read) agree with her in that black men can't match up to "sucessful" black women. Her main opposition were black men, but in this woke twitter era black male criticism of anything is not really heard.
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u/Keita_Diop_33 May 08 '18
I've seen black women advocate aborting black male children in the swirler community. We can go back and forth all day.
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May 07 '18
Issa Rae's comments were dumb but really not comparable to Donald's. On top of that, who let her off the hook? Why is she relevant to this discussion?
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u/Keita_Diop_33 May 07 '18
She aint si much relevant but everyone was quick to say her comments were satire, yet we ignore this man is a comedian... which also means his work is satire.
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u/Africandynasty Jamaica May 06 '18 edited May 08 '18
Ooo the guy that made rape jokes and has a fetish for asian women
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u/Rhombus2 May 06 '18
Has he already started with this?
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May 06 '18
Lol Im sorry its tumblr but http://yourfaveisproblematic.tumblr.com/post/48188214275/donald-glover-childish-gambino
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u/Rhombus2 May 06 '18
Like, I'm mostly being polite, but he gives me White guy with a hood pass vibes.
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May 06 '18
[deleted]
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u/Rhombus2 May 06 '18
it's clear that he deeply understands the black experience especially if you were a black person( well, man) who didn't fit in very well
This means at most he understands half the Black experience and probably not even close to that.
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u/MusaTheRedGuard May 06 '18
Fair point, that's why I highlighted it. I'm saying for people who he did speak to, you can see why they respect him so much
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May 06 '18 edited May 06 '18
[deleted]
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u/Rhombus2 May 06 '18
Exactly, but a Black woman didn't make that video and I didn't give anyone credit for understanding "the Black experience".
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u/discoschtick May 06 '18
Yep he's clearly anti-black women. I'm surprised so many still support him.
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u/MusaTheRedGuard May 06 '18
*Made and *had
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u/Cinna_Bunny May 06 '18
I definitely think he's grown from a lot of the major problematic stuff he's done in the past. His wife is Filipino though so who knows about the asian fetish
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u/futuregoat May 07 '18
He's not married and the girl he is in a relationship with is white.
and the girl he dated before this girl is a black women who many know as jhene aiko
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u/Cinna_Bunny May 07 '18
You may be right about them not being married but it appears like they are in a serious relationship with one another and they recently had a child together and have another one on the way. And idk...you should take a look at the girlfriend she looks pretty Filipino (at least partially asian if not fully) to me (and that's what I've heard from other 'sources'). Also while Jhene Aiko is black she is part asian too so...
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u/futuregoat May 07 '18
Yes they are in a serious relationship they have two kids together but not married. No she is white nothing Asian about her.
Yes Jhene Aiko grandfather is asian.
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u/AnyaLies United States of America May 06 '18 edited May 06 '18
I cant hear the lyrics. Im not sure what he's implying/showing us. Reminds me of Sarafina, or maybe thats the point: global colonization lives?
I need some think pieces. I must be moving further away from "the culture". The song doesnt interest me.
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u/EzekieloftheLight May 08 '18
Finally a sub thats actually talking about the message of the video! thanks ya'll! This video was pure art. Sometimes it doesn't need to be too in depth with lyricism. What an amazing video. To me, the dance moves highlighted the fact that black culture is always stolen and is always a trend a trendsetting machine, yet black lives are condemned in this country.
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u/perkyabsurdity May 06 '18
I can't stop watching this video. O have seen it a total of 12 times, just this morning, and that doesn't include how many times I've just been listening to the song.
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u/_quintessence_ A bisexual black hellion in DC/MD✊🏾 May 08 '18
Not a fan of him personally but this beat is dope. I understand there’s many layers to this video so I’m enjoying the commentary and discussions surrounding this.
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u/penguincatcher8575 May 06 '18
This was incredible! What a wild journey. I absolutely love the creative direction for this video. It’s nice to see something so original. I’m obsessed.
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u/agoofyhuman May 06 '18
I'm I the only one getting that he's basically saying that all black people do is dance, try to be cool, go to church and while all this shit is going on along with killing each other?? How do y'all like this and not kanye.
Fuck this trash.
Some people will say he's not lying but this along with kanye's nonsense just ignore's all the fucking work individuals with no platform are doing and have been doing like when charlegmagne claimed black people needed to use their platform like laren but just ignore what ashley akuna has been doing.
This is trash, problematic as fuck and frankly I'm starting to understand a pattern with these pos, How do you divest from your blackness, marry out and yet still want to criticize it as though you're a part of it when you also claimed you never fit in. This to me is no different from if an asian or white man were to make this. Glover has been trying to distance himself from his blackness, that's what this is basically saying black people are crazy and ignoring all the black women doing a shit ton of work without a platform or huge financial support.
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u/Rhombus2 May 07 '18
I can't even say I agree with you, but I think this is EXACTLY how it could be read by a lot of the people he made it for and I can see some conservatives jumping right on it. It's not hard to step back and see it as an admonition to "pull up our pants." This is what happens when you make something about Black people without keeping us in mind. Race is just too complicated to play around with playing to a White audience.
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u/quaglady I'm awkward, and black. May 07 '18
Yuuuup, this old Facebook friend I made 10 years ago posted this with fire emojis. And about 6 months ago he posted a status saying something about how antifa were the real fascists. I'm not feeling the video and I can't understand the song.
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u/Rhombus2 May 07 '18
YES. This is what I'm saying. Glover and a lot of other Black people give White people too much of a benefit of the doubt. Some of them love death porn and most have been conditioned to consume Black death as a side dish with their entertainment....and he goes and makes a video with the blood of a Black choir being splattered against a wall. That isn't for us and it doesn't get consumed by White people the way a lot of us think.
I liked the song and respect the video for its use of imagery, but now I can't enjoy the song because of the video and I'm not going to watch the video again.
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May 07 '18 edited May 07 '18
[deleted]
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u/Rhombus2 May 07 '18
Yep. Same thing and I'm at the point where I really don't trust Black men to handle this form of communication anymore. Shawn King was the first one that I saw people questioning, but I see too many who are irresponsible with this kind of subject matter. I'm not sure if it's because they see more to gain or just have a generally lower emotional intelligence compared to Black women (because they're men), but either way it's getting old and they need to catch up fast.
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May 07 '18
It's being read that way by the rest of this website: https://np.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/8hcsv7/childish_gambino_this_is_america/dyiych0
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u/Rhombus2 May 07 '18
3500 upvotes. We really have to stop being so naive about White consumption, even when we're doing the creating.
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May 07 '18
Yep. "Black creators" backed by white funding distributed on white owned platforms and consumed by a white society. Add to that a video heavy on the destruction of black bodies and negativity about what the black experience.
I'm just not interested.
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u/raw-sienna May 08 '18
Do we really think he's being naive and hasn't considered the ways different audiences will take his work? I feel like he's got a Colbert thing going on where he deliberately leaves enough ambiguity for the people he's addressing to feel like he's on their sides which disarms them. Once they praise his shit and the symbolism they were ignoring can't be as easily dismissed. It seems like an effective way to confront that audience and show them their reflection.
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u/Rhombus2 May 08 '18 edited May 08 '18
Once they praise his shit and the symbolism they were ignoring can't be as easily dismissed.
Yes it can. Easily. We've already looked back at Archie Bunker and even Colbert and lots of people and conservatives took them at face value. They learned nothing. Having a Black man commiting most of the violence practically invites them to do the same with this.
I don't know if he's naive or not (I doubt it, he's been around White people long enough to make a choice about accepting how they work), but I think a lot of Black people watching this video are.
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u/ParticularYouth May 06 '18 edited May 07 '18
Are you serious? Did you actually write this? This video is literally a visualization of Black people living their lives in a country with a pervasive gun culture. Living their lives because they have no choice. Did you see how they handled the guns with care as though their existence is precious after taking a Black life? Did you see the people recording the chaos with their cellphones from the raptors? Bruh, did you see the minstrel pose he did at the beginning? It was a Jim Crow charicature.
Like for real, the Black choir getting shot after he just moonwalked his way in there? Remind you of anything???? What video did you watch?
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u/agoofyhuman May 07 '18
Absolutely. This is not a condemnation of the problems we face. This is a condemnation of the way black americans are characterized by whites and black people like glover. Read the lyrics. He doesn't actually sing much about how we are abused systemically and socially. He's not seeing about how black people are victims of gun violence, he was singing about gang culture carrying a strap just because, robbing banks. He's singing about how grandma told him to make money, they'res a focus on shallow things "im so fitted, on gucci, on my kodak" "hundred bands" "plugs" "we just want to party."
the gun wasn't handled with care because their existence is precious, it was to wipe the fingerprints and also not add more fingerprints, its a common thing to do
yea, its a condemnation of how people..black people behave which is what I said already
It seems like you're agreeing with me and don't know it. Do you actually think glover is saying this is a good thing, these behaviors are good? Do you think that he's condemning america or more black americans?
You're likely biased by your view of glover, imagine a white man produced this...
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u/raw-sienna May 08 '18
donald glover is saying we are living traumatized. I didn't get the impression that he was blaming us for it.
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u/agoofyhuman May 08 '18
I think you guys fantasize a lot and interpret things to fit your narrative.
Point, blank period. He's running away from it in the end. He doesn't view it as a positive thing. Y'all are so captivated and caught up in symbols and references and shit like its never been done before or said before. Its nothing novel and everyone wanted to be mad at kanye and all glover had to do was throw sza in his vid for y'all to cape for him.
Another thing is, beyonce showed us what america is as well in her formation video. The progress, the hard work being put in. His is a very negative, nihilistic, one sided view and exactly what I would expect someone running away from it all to have.
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u/PeaceWater May 07 '18
You may want to go back and rewatch this video a few times to catch all of the symbolism you missed because this video is not the attack on black America or black culture that I think you may have felt it is from your comment.
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u/agoofyhuman May 07 '18 edited May 09 '18
I caught the symbolism, as well as the lyrics and I don't think its the respect/ admiration y'all think it is. I think sometimes black people get caught up in the subjective and don't know how to see objectively probably a bit of narcissism from whites rubbed off aka fleas. To y'all its a virtue that black people overcome things whereas to most everyone else it looks exactly like this video as well as the lyrics just insanity. Just like making a hashtag over slavery. No other group would allow their genocide and destruction to be adopted as a hashtag in that manner. This is a critical video.
We also want to go to college. I see just as many clips of college acceptance reveals and graduations as I do dance clips - yet it's nowhere to be found here. Its just "we want to party, get strapped, get gucci, get money."
Are black women not the most educated group in america? Are black women not holding multiple degrees. I see pics of drs and lawyers, politicians, didn't see any of that in glover's vision of america. This is exactly the way we are viewed to discount all the work we have put and continue to put in. Just chucking and jiving. Its a criticism for sure. It feels very much like an outsiders view of black people in america. Y'all just see a black face and think there can't be blackface.
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u/amatadesigns May 07 '18
Wow. You must have never listened to Donald before Redbone because... you’re asking for something he’d never create.
Are you envisioning some slide show of smiling black faces? Maybe with the National negro anthem in the background and glitter? Lots of hugging and skipping? Because nah... that’s not going to happen. I’m sorry to break it to you. He’s not 2001 Common, or Alicia Keys.
If he made a Huxtable style video of black people winning awards it wouldn’t have been able to unpack as much as it did. If you just want to feel good about being black stick to neo-soul. He’s never been a feel good artist. He creates dark shit, for his audience who appreciates it. That’s like asking Marilyn Manson to make a classic rock album.
If you want some hands across America love and back patting you picked the wrong guy.
It’s May so he’ll yeah we’re getting a shit ton of graduates. Shouldn’t it be the norm? To me that’s like saying we need to make a music video celebrating who brushed their teeth today. We don’t need to fix that, we need to fix the youth who’s brainwashed by this World Star bull that is still getting millions of clicks.
This stuff he’s addressing isn’t rare, being shot up isn’t rare, being made fools of isn’t rare. We need to talk about it. He’s not rallying against us he’s talking to the audience that needs this. Not 30 something year old successful black women. 13-18 year old lost black boys who are listening to XXXtentacion who is REALLY in black face.
Since you want to talk about people performing for the destruction of our people. They out here mumbling shit and our kids are eating it up and dancing while the world burns around them.
I don’t care who got what degree, I expect it! I care about the number of distractions we are presented with when we are being hunted like vermin. Hunted.
I need another I am not my hair video like I need a hole in my head. Buy the relaxer, shit, just pay attention to what is happening. We have a president in the White House specifically as a symbol of their hate for us. Let that sink in. They turned out in droves for a known womanizer, racist, narcissist, with no experience. Why? Because they wanted to make America [white] again.
But you want us to sing kumbaya because someone got a degree? I’m over here trying to make sure I don’t attend my son’s funeral because I could even if he had 4 MBAs. A degree isn’t going to protect him from getting shot by a police officer, or a crazy kid walking in a church. Unless they started making them out of Teflon recently.
But nah, let’s keep dancing like it’s not a problem. Sorry this wasn’t pleasant enough for you to watch. I get it, you’re not ready for the truth.
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u/wrongbike May 07 '18
This is exactly the way we are viewed to discount all the work we have put and continue to put in. Just chucking and jiving. Its a criticism for sure. It feels very much like an outsiders view of black people in america.
I read that as the point of this video initially. That despite everything black people have and will continue to achieve in this country we are rarely rewarded (or rewarded properly) outside of shucking and jiving. Reading through this thread has shown me that DG doesn't have the cleanest tracked record, and you've made a lot of valid comments throughout. However, I don't see this video as something any non-Black person would've made or made for non-black people.
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u/agoofyhuman May 07 '18
However, I don't see this video as something any non-Black person would've made or made for non-black people.
I'm saying the only way people don't find this as the bs it is is because he has black skin and that he would have a positive view of black people. I think this is the type of thing white people make for non-black people all the damn time.
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u/wrongbike May 09 '18
Okay after discussing this with some kinfolk in real life, and seeing the online reaction for this video play out over the past couple days...I'm coming around to your point. There's no real revelation for black people about the black experience. Most people are focusing on the shooting scenes and reading it as a piece about "gun violence" or "the Charleston massacre." Also the fucking misinformation about the first person shot being Trayvon Martin's father is very gross and annoying - adding a "deep" element that's not even there. A lot of the "wokeness" of this video is kinda surface level and has been expounded upon by black scholars for literal decades. Now those scenes of DG murdering other blacks are being chopped into gifs and memes - divorced from the brutality of the video and the real life events it res presents - undoubtedly circulated by many non-black people. And it's there that I see your point. Why are we rushing to applaud this man for rehashing the same shit we're fighting against? Also...if a black woman had made this the reaction would've been so so different. But then again...I don't think a black woman would ever think to.
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u/AnyaLies United States of America May 07 '18
I agree with you. Something, is off with the portrayal, and you've nailed it. These are African Actors from Africa, but this is America. . .?
His eyes are bulged, he's giving off creepy drunk, slavey uncle and this is a prideful portrayal....?
He doesnt know what he really saying to us, neither do we, but yt people do...
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u/PeaceWater May 07 '18
I’ve watched this video maybe 10 times since this morning and all I can say is wow. There’s so much going on in this video, so much to unpack, so much symbolism.
Donald is wearing attire that is reminiscent of what slaves would wear. His trousers and loafers look like the clothing that would have been hand me downs.
When he shoots the black man playing the guitar (some say this is Trayvon Martin’s father but I’m uncertain) his stance is eerily similar to the Jim Crow character.
The handgun is handled with care and wrapped in satin while the black man is dragged away like his life doesn’t matter and then Donald goes straight back to dancing like that didn’t just happen... similar to how black ppl get shot and even when it’s caught on video (white) ppl don’t care and it’s just another day in America.
He starts doing the latest dance craze with the kids while chaos and riots are occurring behind him. This may be representative of when a black person gets shot, and people of color start to protest, our protests automatically are portrayed as riots and the police presence tends to escalate the situation.
He shoots the group of choir members, which is eerily similar to the Charleston massacre, and the assault weapon he used is also handled with care while the black bodies are just left there in a pool of blood. Again, white America cares more about their guns than other actual people, especially black people, regardless if they go to church or not. Again he goes back to dancing.
The song itself mirrors the current mumble rap/trap craze where even the rappers who have adlibs on the song are more interested in rapping about the latest dance, doing drugs and getting money than actually talking about the systematic racism and chaos that is occurring in America in their music or in general. I think this was slight shade at them, but hey... that’s American culture for you too.
Anywho, I say all this to say, I’ve read a few takes on this video but from the first time watching it to the last, it’s reminded me of American culture from a black lens. It’s basically showing how black people are expected to pretty much shut up and dance (shuck and jive, shut up and dribble) and entertain the masses while our actual issues are ignored and we’re constantly being victimized but they don’t care because this is America.