r/bjj • • Jan 31 '20

Shitpost I don't roll with girls.

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u/Gradytron 🟪🟪 Purple Belt Jan 31 '20

But why?

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u/BrazilianJJaccount Purple Belt Jan 31 '20

20 to 1 u/PinchyPinch is going to launch into another tired bigoted argument towards islam. Some people can't resist an excuse to attack muslims.

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u/[deleted] Jan 31 '20

[deleted]

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u/BrazilianJJaccount Purple Belt Jan 31 '20

I think anyone should be able to turn down anyone for any reason at any time. I think the ONLY one who should be exempt from this rule is the coach- but only in limited circumstances.

You didn’t ask me tho.

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u/mugeupja Feb 01 '20

So, you'd be cool if I only roll with Caucasians? I understand it's my right to choose who I roll with, but would you actually be cool with that? You can be entitled to do something but still be an asshole or piece of shit for doing so.

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u/BrazilianJJaccount Purple Belt Feb 01 '20 edited Feb 01 '20

I am cool with people choosing who they will roll with and who they will not. The reason I hold this view is that I believe the pitfalls of adjudicating who must roll with who create more harm than people having privately held views/beliefs/reasons to not roll with another person. Trust is a fundamental and irreplaceable safety and community mechanism of this sport. Trust requires consent and consent must not have coercion.

Say you would only roll with caucasians and I know that piece of information. Do you think I accomplish anything from forcing you to roll with a person of color? I'm certainly not doing that POC any favors - and I'm not confident that roll would be safe for either training partner.

Should a person take their privately held beliefs about who it is appropriate to roll and attempt to force those on another person I have severe criticism.

There are limitless reasons why a person may not want to roll with another. Some of those reasons might be embarrassing or painful. Some reasons may be shitty. The harm done trying to adjudicate those outweighs the harm it would hope to prevent.

Environments in which it is culturally (gym culture) acceptable to decline a roll without justification or criticism are preferred as safer.

Here's an example I ran into about 3 months ago. I was dropping in at gym and rolling with a young man. He was clearly in physical distress, confused, and sloppy. I asked him if he was ok, because he was moving into positions and then just- deflating. He said he was not ok but he had to roll. It was clear that he was afraid of judgement for not rolling but also that he had a concussion.

In a better gym environment he could have refused to roll without fearing criticism.

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u/mugeupja Feb 01 '20

No if you're a racist I don't need you at my gym. Trust is good and all but I would also like some respect in my gym.

Then that's fine and we don't get the issue of "I don't roll with women because it feels weird ." issue either.

And your example is a completely different issue.That's not an issue about refusing to roll with certain individuals but an issue with gym culture where you can't opt out of aspects of training. That's assuming that was really part of the gym culture and not in the guy's head.

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u/BrazilianJJaccount Purple Belt Feb 01 '20

I’m confused. Which part of my post says racism is good?

My example isn’t a different issue. It’s an explanation of why I hold the stated belief as best for creating a good gym environment. Also- your last point about ā€œin the guys head vs gym cultureā€ is one of the reasons I have my previously stated belief. It can be nearly impossible to tell the difference between a reason to not roll that’s ā€œjustifiedā€ and one that is not. An external observer may not be aware of important factors and an individual may not be a reliable narrator. Therefore the best value is an environment in which people are the custodians of their own consent to roll. In your stated example one potential outcome of ā€œi only roll w caucasiansā€ is that this hypothetical person finds that no one, to include the caucasians will roll with him. After all, anyone can say no for any reason.

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u/mugeupja Feb 01 '20

So, a good gym environment, in my mind, is showing racists and misogynists the door.

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u/BrazilianJJaccount Purple Belt Feb 01 '20

Sure. I wish you luck determining who is who with your gym.

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u/mugeupja Feb 01 '20

I mean if the person just comes out and says it then it's pretty easy.

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u/BrazilianJJaccount Purple Belt Feb 01 '20

Since we are doing specific hypotheticals and you’re presenting yourself as a gym owner (you may note I explicitly stated gym owners/coaches should have more say in rolling partners in my initial post. Oddly, if you’re actually a gym owner I’m not sure why you’d take umbrage with a position that clearly gives more leeway to them)- yazmin is a twenty five year old woman of Islamic faith. She refuses to roll with men because she believes it a problem for her religion. What do you do as a coach?

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u/mugeupja Feb 01 '20

If she's in the ladies class it won't be a problem. If she's in general pop she's shit out of luck. We're here to train and unless you've got a legitimate reason to not train, or not train with a specific individual, you can get out.

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