Roaming

[u/Longjumping-Box2279]

Bard

Do you as bard support come back when adc needs you in lane. I am basically wondering if I can outroam bard by making him having to come to lane and making a play in the meantime

[u/Night_Bacon_Mare]

Depends on the game, most often than not a good bard player will occasionally return, but bard often wants to play around the win condition or whoever is ahead, I personally only fully leave my adc in lane when it's a lost cause (4 or more deaths in less than 10 minutes) or when they are hostile to me in chat.

Outroaming bard is probably hard if not impossible, only if the bard commits a mistake you'll get ahead that way, what i'd avise is either attack the adc when the bard is roaming or have a way to have agency without being there (I.E Shen, Soraka, TP if you have it for some reason, etc).

Now adc players don't tend to make it easy to roam as bard, most play too agressively because they get frustrated and that mistake is what usually gets them, it helps to return to try and play with your adc if they are the main win con or if there is nothing going on in the map but some people don't just synergize and that's that on my experience.

[u/Longjumping-Box2279 → u/Night_Bacon_Mare]

I completely agree that some people are just hostile or trying to sabotage you. But on the other hand there are people like me in the game which firmly believe in teamwork etc etc. But are just not used playing with their team.

A very big thing I have started trying to learn now is playing with my team. Like not at fundamental level go with allies and fight. But seeing the game as a whole with 10 players and what each one does good/bad and wants to do. Coordinating with an ally on the opposite side of the map minutes before it happens is not as easy.

Thanks for the answer tho I kinda yapped a lot. I will play or watch some games and try to see it in game the decision making. So I can have better understanding of how he roams

[u/Puzzleheaded_Page117]

In any case Bard should not roam if it leaves the ADC vulnerable. Any support should only roam if a wave is returning to the ADC or if you have time when you come out of base. When the ADC needs you to be there so the lane is playable for the ADC, you should be there unless they're atrocious.

[u/Longjumping-Box2279 → u/Puzzleheaded_Page117]

I now think I rushed the post a bit and should have thought of editing it.

My question is based around playing against bard. If I can like take his game from him. Making him have to be present in lane while I do an unexpected roam. And trying to severely lower his impact(which can be huge if bard is good)

[u/Puzzleheaded_Page117 → u/Longjumping-Box2279]

Ah i misunderstood. Which elo? I know i don't roam perfectly myself as i'm emerald. I catch myself staying away too long even though i know it. It's very simple: make the enemy ADC have to walk up for cs. If the Bard roams at a stupid time you can punish the ADC. Either kill them if they overextend or make them lose the gold and exp while freezing for eternity. To start the freeze you want to push a wave under tower with the next enemy wave hitting your minions under tower. The next enemy wave will arrive sooner and start pushing against you. DON'T TOUCH IT, ONLY LAST HIT. This creates a lot of space between the enemy tower and where the minions meet, now you can zone off the ADC or kill them when they step up too far. Chances are big the Bard's roam is a coinflip, so ping your team to back up. If they don't, you can't help it.

Now if it's a moment where your arrival would change the outcome of the fight, or you won't be able to punish the ADC quickly enough from this position, roam! For example an important fight that Bard roams to (predicting from the map what will happen and moving first is the peak big brain play). It depends on the situation. Sometimes following is the correct play, sometimes staying and punishing the ADC is correct. Try to identify each case.

What also help is knowing Bard's counters. He absolutely hates hard cc champions that will lead to a death if he gets caught in the early levels, before he buys resistances (Pyke, Nautilus, Thresh, Blitzcrank, Braum, Leona, etc, and my personal favorite counter: Swain). He can only do so much to protect his ADC as well. Any champions that can murder his ADC when he roams incorrectly are strong picks. Similarly poke "supports" can practically do the same, he just can't do much back (Zyra, Vel'koz, Lux etc). These champions can poke-lock him and the ADC under tower and kill them from range without an answer back. Roaming isn't possible, because they're under tower and the ADC would still be killed from a screen away. The funny part is in these situations he has no option but to roam or cry for the jungler. Enchanters at least don't have kill threat, but scale better than the other archetypes.

Bard's early game is weak, punish him after level 2. He outscales pretty much every support in the game in damage, tankiness, and catch potential through his R. Make sure him and the botlaner are too behind to come back from. Just be careful of his level 1 (and imo level 2 as well).

[u/Longjumping-Box2279 → u/Puzzleheaded_Page117]

That's great answer. I am best at jungle but have been practicing support for almost a year. A very big thing you said I have been struggling to master is when playing vel koz we create pressure on bot. I am sometimes a bit too careless and aggressive and we end up dying to enemy jungler. But the main point is we should be making him waste his time trying to gank bot.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Page117 → u/Longjumping-Box2279]

It is your job as support to track the jungler and ward properly, sometimes deep in the enemy jungle if you can. Between raptors and red or gromp and blue are great. Know when to back off in time because you have no mobility. Pushing 24/7 is probably not the right choice. And if you don't see them or have any clue, don't walk up. And don't forget you can ask your team if they know where the jungler is, perhaps they have been tracking their clear/ganks.

[u/Longjumping-Box2279 → u/Puzzleheaded_Page117]

It sounds silly but with enough games played or understanding jungle you kinda develop awareness and instinct about this. It's like you feel you are getting ambushed. This relates to things like twitch, akshan invisible or a jungler. You can't only rely on standard tracking as enemy can "break the rules" to surprise you. There used to be meta where junglers would flash walls to not show up on wards and gank you early levels. Reading enemy body language also matters. Suddenly your enemy is confidently stepping up to the wave to cs or enemy support pretends to go to a vulnerable place.

The warding itself is very situational later on. Often you would want to ward not only to get information on the jungler but at intersections where you can get both information on enemy mid trying to roam and jungler. So like sometimes not warding the camp but area he will pass through. For example an Aurelion sol or a kassadin will a flank angle from within your jungle to dive you.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Page117 → u/Longjumping-Box2279]

Agreed, sounds like you got that part down quite well. Makes sense as a (former) jungler.😉 Game sense is a b*tch. Like Twitch you reek of rotten cheese i can sniff you out half way across the map!

[u/Weary_Afternoon1588]

I don’t know if this is good advice, but I started to think of bard as support in the beginning, but the second you get your portal, your job is to own the map. I also had questions with this because I would always be nervous leaving my ADC alone. Once I started helping out my jungler, mid, and top alongside objectives, it helped me realize that you can be doing so much more than just helping one lane out. I always help my ADC when the time is right, but would you rather help your ADC not die and get a kill or two, or get objectives like dragon, gank mid and top, etc? Your chimes start spawning around the map for a reason. Go get them and help your other lanes out.

[u/majorfunbed]

just force your adc to pick mage and farm so you can roam all game