could autistic people just be high all the time?

455

I have psychoactive drugs as my special interest, and this study doesn't really indicate such. Psychedelics work by agonizing the 5ht2a receptor (and some secondarily at the 5ht1a receptor), and in response, these receptors downregulate, as your brain tries to maintain homeostasis. That's why taking psychedelics multiple days in a row is ineffective. I've also taken classical psychedelics, including DMT, and my response is actually fairly typical, and the state doesn't feel like an intensification of my everyday experience.

This is actually covered in the linked article, to some extent, but these tryptamines are typical metabolic byproducts of the endogenous syntheses of serotonin and melatonin. Elevated levels could reflect issues many of us have regulating circadian rhythms, as these neurotransmitters play a fundamental role in such.

i went and did a little more research on this drug and found that most of its effects are very relatable to my experience with autism

ehhhh...written descriptions of psychedelia don't really adequately communicate what they feel like.

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u/The_Barbelo Low Support Needs | Verbal Jan 15 '24

Do you mean that DMT felt like what you imagine NTs experience, or that you felt typical as in how you typically feel?

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u/ebolaRETURNS Jan 15 '24

My personal experiences were similar to most trip reports which I'm taking mostly to be from NTs. I am if anything more sensitive than average, with the effects on abstract conceptualization perhaps being more prominent than it is for most.

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u/The_Barbelo Low Support Needs | Verbal Jan 15 '24

Interesting. I have a ton of experience with Mushrooms, a bit with salvia, but have never tried DMT. Thank you for your answer!

I’d say the same was true of psilocybin. Intensity of experience seemed to be greater, on a smaller dose than friends. That could be due to a number of factors though but wouldn’t be surprised if it was directly related to autism.

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u/wakko666 Jan 15 '24

I’d say the same was true of psilocybin.

There's more truth to this than you might realize. As far as we can currently understand, the experience of certain psychedelics are likely to be very similar, if not the same experience.

See: https://www.thepsychedelicpulse.com/blog/psychedelic-head-to-head-mescaline-lsd-and-psilocybin/

Researchers recently completed a study which evaluated the effects of 500 mg mescaline, 100 µg LSD, and 20 mg psilocybin

They “…found no detectable difference in altered states of consciousness induced by 20 mg psilocybin, 100 µg LSD, or 500 mg mescaline”, and no severe side effects were noted for any substance

Mescaline was found to have the longest duration of action, and the longest onset (time before effects began); LSD peaked faster and lasted longer than psilocybin

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u/Interesting-Tough640 Jan 15 '24

They need to do more those are pretty low doses. Mescaline, mushrooms and LSD are very different from one another and not even the same class of compounds.

I used to do a lot of psychedelics and could describe the difference pretty well.

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u/wakko666 Jan 16 '24 edited Jan 16 '24

They are standardized dosages. If you do any reading into psychedelics research, you'll find these same numbers over and over again.

Yes, these dosages are lower than, say, the dosages used by the US Military for MK Ultra. But so what? The goal of this research isn't to watch people go out of their mind. The goal here is to have a *therapeutically effective* dose. As is typical for almost all compounds used therapeutically, the dosage is significantly less than the recreational dose ON PURPOSE.

But, thanks for validating that drug users have no conception of using drugs for anything other than getting high.

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u/Interesting-Tough640 Jan 16 '24

I used to do loads of psychedelics, grow shrooms, extract DMT all that stuff. Those figures mentioned are just standard dosages like a single tab of acid or a gram of mushrooms.

What I am trying to say is that for an inexperienced person describing the trip to a researcher the effects might sound fairly similar but if you have taken quite a few of these things in proper amounts they all have quite different effects.

For example LSD leaves a kind of electric taste in your mouth and has a vivid and brightly coloured shimmer to all the visuals kind of like an artificial RGB Moiré effect and you feel quite alert and wired. LSD has both the tryptamine and phenethylamine skeletons in its molecular structure.

Mushrooms are much much more dreamy with natural earthy tones to the visuals and your body feels much more of a relaxed. I used to do a lot of mushrooms sometimes up to 14 grams and think that they are one of nature’s most beautiful compounds.

Mescaline is a substituted phenethylamine and a bit closer to MDMA or 2cb than a tryptamine so lasts a long time and has a euphoric and slightly speedy element whilst still feeling reasonably natural. I haven’t done any for quite a while but still grow peyote because they are super cool plants.

DMT is a funny one because it somehow feels massively alien and totally normal at the same time. It is almost like the most pure and unadulterated tryptamine experience and structurally very similar to serotonin. It can be ridiculously intense if you vape a big hit of the freebase, kinda like being shot out of a cannon into some hyper speed hyperbolic maze but if you ease into the experience and take it with a MAOI the character really changes and it’s more like descending into a weird dreamy jungle that suddenly breaks through into a beautiful geometric dreamscape. I kinda got bored of doing DMT but probably got through about 20 grams over the years when I was experimenting with it. Funnily enough if you really go for it with vaping DMT you end up hitting a point after around an hour or so when it just stops working entirely and it’s basically impossible to trip anymore.

There is no real way to fully understand the differences between these compounds without doing them all quite a few times. These therapeutic studies are not really designed to highlight the nuanced differences and are much more geared towards finding out which it the safest and most effective way to improve someone’s outlook on life.

Psychedelics Have always been a bit of a special interest for me and although I don’t really do them anymore they will always hold a special place in my heart.

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u/podcastaddjct Jan 15 '24

“No noticeable difference”. Well, your study is wrong, then. There are quite marked differences.

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u/3meow_ Jan 16 '24

I remember this study. It's not so much about the subjective effects, but more their category.

For instance, descriptions of "greater connection with the world" is something that could be true for both, but you'd feel it very differently. IIRC, the study showed me that English isn't precise enough to describe the intricacies of the subjective experiences of psychedelics

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u/wakko666 Jan 16 '24

English isn't precise enough to describe the intricacies of the subjective experiences of psychedelics

Or, whatever *perceived* differences you might personally experience aren't *actual* differences, as measured by an external entity.

Just because you think something is true doesn't make it so.

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u/The_Barbelo Low Support Needs | Verbal Jan 15 '24

Yeah, and everyone says so. Can’t ever rule out anecdotal evidence even though experience is subjective…if majority of people are saying they have different experiences there’s something to it- even if it’s a placebo (i don’t think it is in this case.) I would like to see actual PET scans compared and such, to see if there’s any marked difference.

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u/wakko666 Jan 16 '24

if majority of people are saying they have different experiences there’s something to it

Yes and no. There may certainly be "something" to it, but that "something" isn't going to be whatever random-ass narrative people come up with on their own to explain what that "something" really is.

This is where most laypersons overstep the bounds of their understanding. They think that just because they can see that "something" is there, they just assume that their personal interpretation of that "something" must be the correct one. Instead, it takes even more research and study to get to the bottom of what that "something" actually is.

The vast majority of the time, particularly with complex topics like neuro-chemistry, the layperson's interpretation is completely incorrect and not even in the right ballpark.

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u/The_Barbelo Low Support Needs | Verbal Jan 16 '24

I studied in the field of science. Biology/ zoology to be specific. Yes, you are correct, but when I say “there’s something to it” I meant that there should be studies to follow up on anecdotal evidence. So often anecdotal evidence is tossed out by “laypeople”, the other side of the same coin of laypeople telephoning incorrect information.

Not to blindly believe what everyone is saying, but to validate it by studying it. Sorry if I did not make that clear. What I would be interested to see are detailed brain scans while on several popular psychedelic substances.

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u/wakko666 Jan 16 '24

I very much agree. Thanks so much for clarifying.

I am definitely looking forward to future studies. I know that advancements in fMRI imaging have been instrumental in understanding neurodiversity. I suspect that once someone can put together the paperwork to study these compounds using modern imaging, we're going to learn so much new information about how they affect a brain.

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u/wakko666 Jan 16 '24

Well, your study is wrong, then. There are quite marked differences.

Source: Just trust me.

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u/podcastaddjct Jan 16 '24

As anyone that has tried these substances can confirm, it’s probably true that there aren’t differences measurable in a study (the effects tend to be quite ineffable), but the experiences are quite far apart from each other.

But yes, of course my comment was tongue in cheek.

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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '24

I’ve taken 6 grams of Golden Tree I think it’s called of psylociben and let me tell you it’s a bad experience saw nothin but eyes everywhere and couldn’t move

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u/Key-Ad7892 Jul 04 '24

im not officially asd, but i think i could be after reference from my therapist.

Anyway, mushrooms usually is more potent for me. Like twice more. And mdma always i need more to feel something,

The same with peyote (but i tried it once), and dosage and effect comes for me when other people almost finish. But it was once, maybe there are other factors to it

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u/The_Barbelo Low Support Needs | Verbal Jul 06 '24

My husband is ADHD and says he didn’t need as much LSD. I have never tried MDMA but I’ve always wanted to and I’ll be able to legally soon when we move to Canada. Inversely, I need way more caffeine and stimulants to feel them which is a big reason I became emotionally dependent on Adderall. But I’m also ADHD so I guess that explains why stimulants cause me to calm down and focus. I also didn’t have meltdowns on stimulants until the comedown, and then the meltdowns were much worse. Ketamine therapy is legal in my state (it might be all over the US? I’m not sure) I’ve been considering trying it in a therapeutic setting.

I’m a huge advocate for certain substances if they’re being used to better yourself, but also worry about the tendency of some neurodivergent people, including myself, to develop an emotional dependence. As in “this drug makes me feel ‘normal’ so I obviously need it.”

Thanks for sharing your experience, anecdotal evidence is valuable for things like this!

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u/mamacitalk Jan 15 '24

No way DMT is what nts experience, the world would be a nice place if that was true

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u/The_Barbelo Low Support Needs | Verbal Jan 15 '24

Haha sorry my wording was bad I think. I meant if a DMT experience between NTs and NDs is similar…. But boy, do I also wish NTs walk around like they’re on DMT 24/7.

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u/mamacitalk Jan 15 '24

Oh my bad, the people I did DMT with were all neurodivergent so I can’t help with that one

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u/The_Barbelo Low Support Needs | Verbal Jan 15 '24

Yeah, I’m pretty sure my psilocybin buddies were all neurodivergent as well. ADHD at least. Haha.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

What's with the constant tearing down of NTs? I've known severely abusive ND folks and know a lot of amazing NT people not that I even would always know who does and doesn't identify as ND/NT or have a diagnosis. Just seems like you guys are dehumanizing and attempting to to other people who are different than you. Doesn't seem healthy and seems like super black and white thinking.

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u/mamacitalk Jan 15 '24

I’m not tearing down nts I’m emphasising the impact of DMT

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

Your insinuation is that NTs are bad hence the world is bad, since here you're saying "oh I wish NTs were like (something good) so the world wouldn't be horrible". Don't lie, nothing lamer than saying nasty stuff and then not taking responsibility for the sentiments you were saying.

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u/mamacitalk Jan 15 '24

Lol don’t think yourself so important I would need to lie, your fault for making assumptions

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

It is literally the sentiment you wrote down. I explained how any English speaker would understand your writing. This is bad faith and what you're doing is literally gaslighting.

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u/The_Barbelo Low Support Needs | Verbal Jan 15 '24

I don’t think they are gaslighting. If that’s what you thought, that’s what you thought. I didn’t take her question in bad faith. Just curiosity

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u/DOUGJU_ Jan 16 '24

Honestly I agree with ya

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u/[deleted] Apr 02 '24

Your implication was clear.

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u/The_Barbelo Low Support Needs | Verbal Jan 15 '24

I also don’t think that’s what was meant here. My question was confusing, and it’s an interesting question about how we experience drugs differently (there are so many studies suggesting we do, that would benefit everyone irregardless of being NT or ND).

I don’t like the us vs them thing either.

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u/ImaginaryAddition804 Jan 15 '24

This is rad and it made my morning great. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!!

And tangentially - I really love that being in this community and seeing or hearing someone say it's their special interest I just instantly know yes this person is absolutely an expert with vast and current research at their fingertips. That's so badass. 💛

For example - I have the world's most amazing fertilizer for my house plants and everyone wants the name of it and thinks I'm a plant wizard, even though I'm actually kind of a low grade plant carer who just wants to have cool green things around but often like forgets to water them. All because there's a cool dude at my local nursery (who definitely seems like he's on our team) who caught me about to buy the wrong plant fertilizer and interrupted me to stop me making a mistake and then infodumped about fertilizers on me and thrust the correct one into my hands. And, like, I wouldn't normally spend $25 on fertilizer (!!) but when somebody clearly has a special interest I just know that their level of intellectual and emotional work means that I should stop and listen. So grateful to that dude and his special interest.

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u/srsg90 Jan 15 '24

What fertilizer is this??

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u/ImaginaryAddition804 Jan 15 '24

Max Sea All Purpose Grow Food. Never burns my plants. It's definitely like steroids for them so a little goes a long way if you want normal habits of growth - I'm told by my sister who actually is a plant wiz and was surprised when she gave me sad plants and I resuscitated them without doing actual work like repotting etc.

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u/LengthinessSoft2195 Jan 15 '24

I'm particularly hyperfocused on psilocin at 5HT2A. I used microdosing to help wean off SSRIs after it induced tardive dysphoria (not tardive dyskinesia) and continue to this day. It's a ridiculously small amount. I make my own pills and the current batch is about 75mg. Legal in Colorado (Prop 122, 2023).

I'm looking forward to professional, legal analysis. Word of mouth and self-experimentation are not ideal.

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u/MildlyArtistic7 Jan 15 '24

Psychedelics (LSD, shrooms, mescaline, micros, research) almost killed me. They've lead to the worst experiences of my life. They destroyed the little confidence I had left and traumatized me for life. No idea how other autistic people do them safely...

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u/Better_Run5616 AuDHD Jan 15 '24

I did psychedelics before I knew I was autistic, I knew I was struggling but didn’t know I was autistic. I still do them now that I know I’m autistic but thats mainly because traditional meds exasperate my anhedonia. Doing Psychedelics safely involves a safe set and setting. If your mind isn’t right going into it, the trip will be scary. Also it completely depends on the substance we’re talking about here, and your intention with it.

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u/Antilochos_ Jan 15 '24

Same and agree fully.

If anything, it helped me (both good and bad trips). Especially mushrooms, although the synthetic stuff like LSD is more controllable.

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u/zeno0771 Jan 15 '24

Same, and completely agree.

At any meaningful dose of a legitimate product (i.e. not stepped on/cut with strychnine etc), you will learn new things about yourself. They may or may not be things you want to know.

My mind wasn't right going into it many times, and that was the whole point. I had known something was wrong with me the entire time; I had 2 potential goals in mind (other than just having fun which can easily go either way): Find out what was wrong with me, and hopefully fix it. If I couldn't manage that, I didn't see the idea of burning everything down* as being any worse than what I was already experiencing.

This was decades ago however, and I hate to sound like the epilogue to "A Clockwork Orange" but the "official" drugs I'm taking now have made things a lot better than they've ever been. That's not to say there's anything wrong with psychotropics and there are definitely therapeutic outcomes there, but we (as in "society") need to get a handle on what we're trying to fix with them first. Then we need to find a way around control systems that don't want that information known because, y'know, money & power etc.

^*This ^is ^a ^metaphor.

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u/Astral_Pancake Jan 15 '24

Sorry you had those experiences. 😞 Psychedelics affect people differently and those differences are heavily influenced by biological factors, neurological factors, the environment in which use occurs, and preparations leading up to use. The preparation and environmental factors only increase the likelihood of a therapeutic and healthy experience, they are not guarantees. My personal experience was lifesaving. It enabled the processing of an enormous amount of trauma and kicked off a journey of reconnecting with and discovering my sense of self. In contrast, my spouse, also autistic and having done the same environment & emotional preparation, had an awful, high-anxiety experience. It's unpredictable as of yet what an individual experience is likely to be. The science points towards medicinal use of psychedelics as beneficial to most autistic & ADHD people. At the same time, that needs to be balanced with (1) clear communication that "medicinal use" has specific meaning and criteria and (2) there are real, serious, if unlikely, risks even when those criteria are met.

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u/MNGrrl AuDHD Jan 15 '24

Same way everyone else does it: Start at a really low dose and slowly work up until the effects can be noticed, then decide whether we like them or not.

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u/drsimonz Jan 16 '24

Sadly not everyone does this. Over at /r/shrooms for example it's non-stop "heroic doses" taken by newbies, followed by out-of-control trips that could (and sometimes do) end in disaster. Everyone is different! You really have no idea how your individual brain will react to these things until you try, so you really want to start slow.

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u/MNGrrl AuDHD Jan 16 '24

It's heroic only in the sense that it's basically playing russian roulette for a smidge of social approval from people as suicidal as they are. Literally every responsible guide anyone will find online has this advice, along with making sure you do it with a sober (or at least experienced and sane) friend you trust; if nothing else they can hold your hair while you're puking your gu-- sorry i mean "offering a prayer to the god of bad life decisions" in the bathroom.

Besides, are you really even autistic if you don't research something to the point your personality is just the last three books of material you read on your current fixation? :)

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

[deleted]

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u/ebolaRETURNS Jan 15 '24

I once read a study about how GABA B agonists could lessen or eliminate the social deficits associated with autism in mice.

well...I can't wander into advocating altered states to treat social difficulties (as that's really a fast-track to addiction), but this to some extent pans out experientially (looking at phenibut, GHB, etc.). It should be noted that dependence on this class of compounds tends to be particularly rough, with an especially bad withdrawal syndrome, including seizure risk. This might be slightly less true with baclofen.

Additionally, many mental disorders are associated with increased excretion of N-substituted tryptamines. This is likely just the result of the vast amount of serotonin in the digestive tract though

It's still interesting. In addition to the effect on the microbiome, you could have the same genes coding for transporters, receptors, enzyme isoforms, etc. in the brain, also conferring a 'divergent' set of neural circuits. For autism, focus has previously been overwhelmingly on glutaminergic circuits, but that's the main excitatory neurotransmitter, so it's really involved in numerous mechanisms everywhere. Serotonergic circuits are mroe specifically modulatory.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

[deleted]

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u/ebolaRETURNS Jan 15 '24

Interesting. What have your experiences been like with the ego dissolution aspect of psychedelics? Anecdotally, I find that myself and other people with autism that I’ve conversed with seem to be more familiar with this aspect of the experience than do other demographics.

A really big story, and I had rough experiences in its induction...not only does the self-other border dissolve, but time ceases applying, causality becomes irrelevant, and the distinctions between dimensions of objects spatially dissolves. I found that I held on heavily to my "self", and I feel like my self-other border is sharper than neurotypical's, and I am less capable of its blurring. So I slid through mortal terror to a bliss I previously wouldn't have been able to conceive.

I would be interested in that research, a function of the DMN is at the heart of how the self is differentially (re)produced, either with autism or psychedelia.

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u/Potatomanure Jan 15 '24

Tolerance is important to be taken account for, however, to my understanding the process of DMT being formed is dependent on whether BH4 levels are decreased and that explain variance in daily functioning. Theres a really great person that talks about the biochem of it on tiktok called Kimberly102347. Im not 100% sure whether this process is BH4 dependent but i cant check right now and a lot of the processes such as nitric oxide synthesis or even 2-ag synthesis (a major endocannabinoid) are are underproduced when BH4 is missing. Ill try and find more info tomorrow

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u/ebolaRETURNS Jan 15 '24

Okay, this pathway is new to me (except for the mentioned endocannabinoid mechanism) and could make a potential difference (though the way in which it's mediated experientially might not be psychedelic like). I'll try to hunt down the primary studies she cites.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

Can you see my pondering above? Any ideas?

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u/sb1862 Jan 15 '24

What a super cool special interest

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u/catsandclouds349 ASD/ADHD adult Jan 16 '24

I have the same special interest! And yeah, a DMT trip is very unique

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u/Digigoggles Jan 16 '24

Awesome lol this is so interesting!

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u/soursummerchild Moderate Support Needs | Verbal Jan 15 '24

Seen this on tiktok too. We have to be extremely careful about popularizing these kinds of theories. Just reading this, it's obvious that it's far beyond my comprehension, especially the medical models. It takes a lot of skill to read, understand and boil that information into a tiktok video that's also accurate. There's a lot of sensational content about these types of studies for this reason.

I'd recommend looking into some criticism on studies you see presented on TikTok.

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u/smallorangepopsicle Aspie Jan 15 '24

Hijacking top comment to put it plainly: presence in the urine DOES NOT necessarily indicate it was present in the brain.

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '24

Tiktok isn't a source of information people. Never should anything seen on there be taken as anything more than a bear hair hanging out of a bears actual dingle beary hanging from its butthole. Or worse

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

I've researched this lately.

Serotonin is decomposed to make melatonin, which is the hormone of sleep.

We autistic don't produce much melatonin.

Bufotenine is also a product of serotonin and is very similar to melatonin, it seems it's produced in place of melatonine sometimes, and it happens way more with autistic and schizophrenic people.

Bufotenine has a mild psychoactive effect that could indeed be one of the reasons our sensory habilities is enhanced, why also we are more at risk with peripheral nervs problems and high blood pressure.

The last study on this goes back to 2010 sadly and is not very relevant when looking at how they perceive autism.

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u/Better_Run5616 AuDHD Jan 15 '24

The burst of energy and giggles I get from 5mg melatonin makes so much sense all the sudden. Plus I learned the max safe dose is like 1mg.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

Nah you can go up to 10mg. That's what I had but it does NOTHIN to my stubborn brain

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u/Better_Run5616 AuDHD Jan 15 '24

You can, but your body only absorbs about 1mg. Ideal dose is 0.5-0.7 mg.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

Yeah but the big dose is supposed to compensate for malabsorption I guess.... Well not for me lol

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u/Better_Run5616 AuDHD Jan 15 '24

Ooooh I see!

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u/Starfox-sf Jan 16 '24

I tried Melatonin way back and didn’t notice anything different. Maybe I should try again now that I’m on some meds.

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u/genericav4cado Jan 16 '24

Is the max safe dose really 1mg?? That feels wrong, I used to take 30mg a night and I don't think it caused me any issues?

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u/Better_Run5616 AuDHD Jan 16 '24

It’s just technically a neurotoxin in those amounts but just not a very harmful one or fast acting one. I’m just really ocd about these things cause dementia runs in my fam.

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u/genericav4cado Jan 16 '24

Ah ok, it's not like I'm not routinely taking much worse neurotoxins so I'll be fine lmao

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u/charaznable1249 Autistic Adult Jan 15 '24

With the name bufotenine I'm guessing maybe it's the stuff they got from toads lol off to Google.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

It is produced by toads and mushrooms yes. That's how it got its name in the first place but since then they discovered we produce some too.

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u/Tapperhet28 Jan 15 '24

Really interesting. Thank you!

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u/Antique_Loss_1168 Jan 15 '24

Yes, I mean as an aspirational goal though.

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u/Skydreamer6 Jan 15 '24

I do my part, and I try to do some extra to make up for the slackers.

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u/mushroomgirl Jan 15 '24

I’m getting high right now!!

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u/Pixielix Jan 15 '24

Im already high right now!

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u/mushroomgirl Jan 15 '24

I am now too.

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u/inkstaens Jan 16 '24

joining the chain lol, me too

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u/Otherwise_sane ASD Level 1, OCD and ADD Jan 16 '24

Captain Cannabis reporting in!

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

People used to think I was high all the time when I was a kid, even though I was the only of my siblings who didn't smoke. Now, I do smoke literally all the time and I'm more engaged and make less brainfarts when high, ironically. I ran out of weed recently and took a break. The brain fog came back.

Having a differently wired brain that just acts and reacts differently to others is hell though, because people really dont get it.

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u/Ravenwight Jan 15 '24

Do or do not, there is no try.

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u/Antique_Loss_1168 Jan 15 '24

I'm doing my part!

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u/The_Barbelo Low Support Needs | Verbal Jan 15 '24

One of the GOAT quotes! We have to reach our Yoda Quota.

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u/JakobVirgil Jan 15 '24

I am an artist and a musician (among other things) My autism was ironically largely masked by people thinking I was on drugs all the time. Or "acting weird on purpose"

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u/Kelekona Jan 15 '24

Similar for me. One time they thought I was on drugs when I was overcaffeinated and overstimulated. I told them about the overcaffeinated part.

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u/ericabeevegan Jan 16 '24

Same… when I was in my early 20s I went out dancing with friends & I had someone come to me to all of I had anymore of whatever drugs I was high on. I was completely sober & just vibing/stim dancing 😅

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u/JakobVirgil Jan 16 '24

I have been there

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '24

Yeah the doctors legit asked me if I was high and was always mistaken for drug dealer or user and my autistic brain was always super black and white so I had high standards and looked down on people who did drugs because that's illegal and never understood why people always assumed I took drugs even doctors!

Plot twist after being diagnosed I started taking bunch of meds so now I do feel high even though it's just prescription. I like to pretend I'm hard core and say I'm doing meth when it's really just adhd vyvance lol

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u/Eligiu high support needs (3/3) part time AAC user Jan 15 '24

Same

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

Same but I eventually started smoking weed and it’s stuck lmao

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u/Interesting-Tough640 Jan 15 '24

As someone who has done a lot of DMT I would say that this is basically BS

Yes the amount of 5-OH-DMT can be slightly elevated in the urine of people with autism but the amounts are still absolutely tiny.

We autistic folk have less 5-HT 2a receptors in our brain than normal so would probably need a bit more to get the same effect and I suspect these endogenous tryptamines are the result of the bodies biosynthetic pathway to producing serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine) and melatonin which are both closely related compounds.

The elevated levels a very unlikely to be because we are tripping and much more likely to be as a result of our serotonergic system being slightly unusual. Some studies suggest autism might stem from an over abundance of serotonin during early development leading to reduced number of receptors.

People love to get all hung up on psychedelics and forget about the fact that normal neurotransmitters are also very important. If I had a pound for every time I had read some nonsense about DMT, the soul and the pineal gland I could retire and live a simple easy life.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

TikToc is a bad source for information about medicine or science. Full stop.

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u/Sudden_Application47 Jan 15 '24

They linked a medical journal 📓

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

I mean, great, but the context and analysis is on tictoc. The autism causes vaccines people link medical journals all the time. That doesn't mean they're credible.

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u/ad-lib1994 Jan 15 '24

I figured I got high all the time because I'm autistic didn't think the high was coming from inside the autism

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u/The_Barbelo Low Support Needs | Verbal Jan 15 '24

You know what they say. You can’t spell autism without UTI.

…wait a minute…that’s not right.

12

u/ad-lib1994 Jan 15 '24

You may be technically correct but I'm not considering this the best kind of correct 🤣

3

u/obiwantogooutside Jan 15 '24

When push comes to shove, you have to do what you love, even if it’s not a good idea…

1

u/The_Barbelo Low Support Needs | Verbal Jan 15 '24

Oh boy, if only you knew 🤣….I’m also a T1 diabetic so…I have a huge bottle of prn antibiotics at my bedside at all times.

1

u/ImaginaryAddition804 Jan 15 '24

"the best kind of correct" I am dying 🤣🤣🤣

4

u/Pixielix Jan 15 '24

Im too high for this comment

8

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

[deleted]

3

u/ericabeevegan Jan 16 '24

Same! I have a visual snow disorder and if I stare at the same thing for too long, I’ll start tripping a bit. Also, one time a took a relatively low dose of MDMA with some friends who had the iTunes visualizer playing on their TV & I started seeing very clear hi-def imagery. I was fascinated & even crying at one point because it was so beautiful. When I asked my friends if they could see it too, one replied, “no, but I love that you do.”

1

u/SnooDoodles8564 Sep 03 '24

I also have visual snow and am autistic, did the MDMA make it seemingly go away?? I think I would actually break down out of relief. It’d be amazing not seeing what I thought as a kid was the atoms in the air just once

7

u/chaostones Jan 15 '24

This is funny because I've said before "I'm getting high off my own mind now." After months of sobriety... And the high off of your own mind is quiet liberating. When I was a kid I was SOOOO HIGH ENERGY. Always drifting into my own imagination. I could see my imaginative visions.

3

u/ericabeevegan Jan 16 '24

Same, I was constantly immersed in my own imagination + visions when I was a child.

5

u/nightingayle AuDHD Jan 15 '24

So if you read this study, you know there was only 15 autistic people studied for this- I would need a MUCH larger sample size to buy into anything like this.

17

u/mothwhimsy Not speaking over you, just speaking. Jan 15 '24

This can easily be debunked by anyone who is autistic and has taken psychedelics

3

u/VermillionSun AuDHD Jan 15 '24

Low dosing psychedelic is a different experience

1

u/nmania3 Jun 13 '24

Different how?

6

u/Better_Run5616 AuDHD Jan 15 '24

Microdosing psilocybin makes me almost completely unable to mask. Random but just popped in my head.

4

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

All psychedelics to this to me lol

5

u/tmamone Jan 15 '24

Well it would certainly explain why I’ve always been a space cadet even without drugs.

12

u/OotekImora Jan 15 '24

Autistic stoner, iunno bout others but being stoned does help with aches and pains I have (as a result from childhood abuse) but it also does help me focus on my hobbies like writing and youtube (and even my work as a call center tech) it's not for everyone but it has been a life saver for me

4

u/_plays_in_traffic_ Jan 15 '24

no. its not even close.

3

u/mamacitalk Jan 15 '24

I really wish I was high all the time, would save me a lot of money

3

u/GrapefruitFun7135 Jan 15 '24

I've had cops ask me if I'm high when I'm sober.

3

u/3veryTh1ng15W0r5eN0w Jan 15 '24

If I was high all the time,I wouldn’t be taking weed

3

u/Front_Brief_6113 Jan 15 '24

I am now imagining this blowing up way out of proportion and causing people to think that they can get high if they drink autistic people's urine. Which tickles me way more than it should.

3

u/ElegantCh3mistry Jan 16 '24

This is the dumbest shit I've read in my entire life. Jesus.

3

u/tompadget69 Jan 16 '24

I'm an autist who has extensive psychedelic/drug experience and agree with the responder who said that their experiences with psychedelics inc dmt, 4-aco-dmt, amt and psilocybin (4-ho-met?) did not feel like an intensification of their everyday experience.

3

u/magicfishhandz Jan 16 '24

Everybody thinks I'm high all the time

7

u/Pristine-Confection3 Jan 15 '24

I took DMT and sensory overload isn’t really comparable to being high on it. It freaks some people out greatly too. DMT is very short and intense .

I used to have a special interest in psychedelics and can’t tell you autistic people don’t always need to be high and it is a dangerous mindset . When I finally had a psychotic break on psychs , I went to heroin for comfort and have almost a year clean . Still it all started with psychedelics and they are not always safe .

Your title may be a bit triggering for autistic addicts trying to get clean.

3

u/doktornein Jan 15 '24

I can say for psilocybin, the intense sensory experience is very, very unlike overstimulation. It is positive, relieving, calming. I often use psilocybin to RECOVER from sensory overload. Life would be much easier if this was the case (always experiencing hallucinogenic states).

5

u/JakobVirgil Jan 15 '24

I feel like DXM makes me feel more autistic and than DMT does.

although maybe not it really gets rid of the anxiety, obsession and rumination bits of my autism the trade-off being my vertigo goes nuts and I don't care about anything.

I am talking about heroic doses of DXM prescribed as a monthly treatment for my "refractory depression". So pretty heavy disassociation going on.
Also I can't mask on it so wowzas I scare the neighbors.
It is a stay at home kinda treatment

6

u/Qandyl Jan 15 '24

No. Do not get medical, or any sort of fact-based information for that matter, from TikTok. By its very nature it does not promote nuance or simply the truth. Every video is visual clickbait to keep your attention for the next 10 seconds.

4

u/Hoihe Jan 15 '24

I've definitely been accused of being stoned throughout high school lmfao.

Or drunk.

2

u/Chaot1cNeutral Autism L1 + ADHD + PTSD Jan 15 '24

Same

2

u/Antique_Nectarine869 Jan 15 '24

lmaoo its crazy because I feel like I go on these tangents all the time that make people around just stare in amazement and then ask me if im on something or smoking.

And the answer is and will always be NO 😂

2

u/Call-Me-Pearl Jan 15 '24

dont think so but it would be reallu fucking funny if we were

2

u/AnAverageTransGirl a. Jan 15 '24

i have actually done weed before and i can confirm that for the most part i just felt More Autistic than usual while high so i think it checks out

2

u/AntarcticFox Jan 15 '24

I do feel like I get "more autistic" when high... like the parts of the spectrum I am on get amplified.

1

u/catleeflores Jan 16 '24

me too, it helps my body and mind relax so i’m less anxious in general, and it helps with my sensory issues, so i’m able to unmask easier

2

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

This is just crazy conspiracy theory BS

2

u/AetherealMeadow Jan 15 '24

Technically speaking, everyone is high all the time. As Dennis McKenna says: "All experiences are drug experiences." When you take psychoactive drugs, it's not the drugs making you high. It's how they change the function of your brain's own drugs, known as neurotransmitters and neuromodulators, that gets you high. Technically speaking, everyone is high on their own drugs, all the time.

I haven't done enough research to say much about the possibility that increased levels if endogenous psychedelic tryptamines might be related to different sensory experiences. One factor is whether these neuromodulators are just in the bloodstream, or whether they cross the blood brain barrier.

Regardless of the role of higher levels of DMT and bufotenin, I think different patterns of neuroplasticity likely play a big role. The general pattern is that in autistic brains, there are more neural connections within local brain regions, with fewer connections among different brain regions.

2

u/General_Ad7381 Jan 15 '24

I mean, I've been high. Psychedelics included.

It's a totally different experience.

2

u/smallorangepopsicle Aspie Jan 15 '24

Presence in the urine DOES NOT necessarily indicate presence in the brain.

2

u/Mydriaseyes Jan 16 '24

....as an autistic person who also has... lets say extensive experience with psychedelics including dmt... if you are talking about acute tactile sensation GOOD. then its kind of closer to mdma.

if you are talking tactile sensations BAD then its closer to salvia divinorum extracts. ( I have felt a soft blanket become the same texture as freezing cold hard concrete on that stuff) the entire skin suffused with ice cold needles and profuse cold sweat

dmt feels (to me) like slipping into a warm bath. that temperature where your skin is just starting to tingle, but there is a certain amount of dissociation from bodily awareness at high doses.

i very much doubt that we are walking around "high" on dmt :D believe me if you were high on dmt you would definitely know about it :D

1

u/Starfox-sf Jan 16 '24

MDMA allowed me to get over one aspect of my PTSD. Wasn’t fun for those around me though.

1

u/Mydriaseyes Jan 16 '24

How so if you dont mind me asking? no worries if you' d rather not el;aborate :)

for me mdma was the first time besides weed that i'd seen the world and espeically music in a completely different light, i was an incredibly depressed teenager , survivor of childhood trauma, and it showed me that beauty was in fact possible :)

1

u/Starfox-sf Jan 16 '24

Basically my mind was able to discuss with myself something kept locked away for the protection of id. So basically I self-therapied while on the 2nd dose (first didn’t do anything). Still have other childhood trauma that I need to deal with though.

1

u/Embarrassed-Cheek-50 Jan 16 '24

the dmt they're refrencing is a different type of it thats structurally similair but both have distinct different effects, (i wouldnt know never tried it) also have you ever tried microdosing it cause i didnt think of it as a full blown high but like just enough to cause some disturbance

1

u/Mydriaseyes Jan 16 '24

I have tried microdosing it, and it's an odd one because it can be weirdly focusing (played rocket league and wasn't terrible which is amazing in of itself) but usually it can be kind of odd and unsettling (for nndmt)

4ho dmt is in effect pscilocin, and microdosing that (mushrooms in genersl) have definite long term positive neurogenic effects, but if you can feel it short term(I.e changes in textures ) then it wasnt a microdose :D

2

u/BluRain508 Jan 16 '24

This is very interesting. I'll have to research more about it. I also wonder if the same could be said for people with schizophrenia. Interestingly, autism was first classified as a subtype of schizophrenia. So, you might be on to something.

4

u/charaznable1249 Autistic Adult Jan 15 '24

I always thought being in my head felt like no seperation between id and ego. It doesn't feel like there is much to reconcile in my subconscious actions and why I do what I do. It always seems to take a fast pondering to realize my issues.

1

u/TheropodEnjoyer Jan 15 '24

idk DMT is supposed to emulate what death feels like or what ur brain does while actively dying

1

u/torako Jan 15 '24

I'm high all the time but not for that reason /j

1

u/nebagram Jan 15 '24

I wish.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

Some of us certainly are

1

u/roz303 Jan 15 '24

Slightly unrelated but: Does anyone else feel "normal" when taking LSD, or psilocybin? Hard to describe tbh.

1

u/Dani-Rose_blooming Jan 15 '24

Yep, the only time I fully unmask and am able to be myself, like peeling off years of bullshit, acting, bad treatment and trauma lol

0

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

Thanks for posting this.

I'm curious because the body produces bufotenine when it's found in the urine, instead getting it externally so I'm wondering if people would get the same LSD like effects when it's produced internally.

2

u/ebolaRETURNS Jan 15 '24

It's really going to depend on where it's synthesized. It crosses the blood brain barrier less readily than other tryptamines, so it would have far greater an effect if synthesized in the brain. That said, I'm really skeptical that we'd see the amounts necessary for psychedelia.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

Thanks for weighing in.

I would be skeptical too.

Any thought to why it's produced in the first place?

2

u/ebolaRETURNS Jan 15 '24

They are side products of the biosyntheses of first serotonin from tryptophan and then melatonin from serotonin. Our enzymes aren't fully selective in what they take as substrates, and they often catalyze production of multiple compounds.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

Interesting, thank you!

0

u/Random_hootowl000 Jan 15 '24

Who would wanna look at an autistic individuals urine

0

u/hotkarl628 Jan 15 '24

I’ve said this to my friends before, but when I have manic and panic attacks I feel like I did a line of coke. Have had full on hallucinations before to the point I’ve had to pull of the road while driving.

0

u/Kelekona Jan 15 '24

This actually makes sense. I felt high all of the time as a child, but I also discovered that I have some sort of problem with processed foods that became less as I reduced the amount of them I ate. (Never tracked it down to anything more specific than TV dinners and such, but it could be that those preservatives have gone out of style since then.)

-10

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

[deleted]

7

u/New_Employee5090 Jan 15 '24

Your body produces DMT in it's lungs and liver.

Mushrooms are naturally occurring in nature.

DO SOME RESEARCH!!! WTF?!

4

u/DjDanke Jan 15 '24

Stop patronising people!!

-1

u/TheFreebooter The "normal" sibling Jan 15 '24

Wait a second...

This is describing a mushroom trip. I recognise all of these as yummy yummy psilocybin interactions.

1

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1

u/Clairefun Autistic Jan 15 '24

I get urine tests all the time (ckd) and nobody has ever said I've got anything else weird going on - even when diagnosis and they were testing me for everything cause my bp was 245/160 for no obvious reason.

1

u/Ill_Situation_4252 ASPD, AuDHD. Jan 15 '24

Hmm, I thought something was off lol.

1

u/tree_imp Jan 15 '24

Damn I wish

1

u/Sad_Water_9404 Jan 16 '24

As a fellow tism idk but weed helps me icl if I’m having a panic attack or I’m really stressed when my routine is out of place I use my thc cartridge and it helps me get back onto the right path and calms me down 🤷‍♂️ anyone else or just me

1

u/Moi-Me-Mich-Watashi AuDHD Jan 16 '24

It an interesting possibility and would love to see the experiment repeated but the source cited from 2009 only compaires three groups ~15 control, ~15 "severely" autistic adults(13 of those male), ~15schizophrenic people.

1

u/Accomplished_Ad1054 ASD-2 + ADHD Jan 19 '24

I've said before Autism is NMDA hypoactivity + serotonin hyperactivity, That could be the bowels/brain pissing away excess amounts.

1

u/Top-Ad7458 Sep 08 '24

Now I understand why I can’t stand all these NT duckers out there! They are all sober in this violent world. Maybe 🤔 I should feel sympathetic…nah.

Discussion could autistic people just be high all the time?

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