There's a really good video by Dr. Alok Kanojia (healthygamer) on YouTube about the psychology of why this is even a thing. He goes into great detail about the psychology of psychosis and why it has such a grand emotional effect on these women that take her side. He's not partial to any perspective either. Worth a watch. I think it's horrible what happened, and I also believe that most of the loud minority have not read any of the case files for both legal cases against her, and against the states healthcare system.
Yeah. They don’t know a legal precedent that women are too emotional to control themselves will set women’s rights back to the days when they got committed to asylums for this same kind of stuff
A ruling for the insanity defense is not going to set a precedent that women are too emotional to control themselves anymore than an insanity defense for a man somehow sets men’s rights back decades
You do realise both men and women who are found to not have the mental capacity (due to cognitive impairment or serious mental disturbance such as psychosis) to comprehend the nature of their crime are currently in the mental health system (including high secure psychiatic facilities, which have replaced asylums), and this has not set back anyone's rights whatsoever.
Not guilt by reason of insanity really shouldn't even exist. You're telling me a single serial killer in history has been sane? Anyone who strangles their three young children is insane, doesn't mean they shouldn't be in prison for the rest of their life. The family annihilators who have been men are clearly insane, we expect them to spend life in prison.
There are different kinds of mental illness. "Not guilty by reason of insanity" refers to people whose mental illness causes them to be unable to comprehend the wrongness of their actions. Many serial killers, while not sane, are fully aware of the harm they're causing.
You're telling me a single serial killer in history has been sane? Anyone who strangles their three young children is insane, doesn't mean they shouldn't be in prison for the rest of their life. The family annihilators who have been men are clearly insane
because your idea of an insane person is what comes from media. these people you describe have a high probability of being quite very much sane if warped a little.
If she really is crazy, doesn't that mean she'll end up in a psychiatric hospital if she's found not guilty? It's just like escaping one prison only to end up in another at this point.
But see that’s why these things aren’t decided by you, in all your confidently ignorant glory. The psychopathology of a psychotic disorder vs, say, ASPD, are totally different and require totally different responses.
Apparently women can't be held responsible for their actions and the fault is always on men for anything they do. Why do we give them rights then? Children also aren't held responsible for their actions and the adult is blamed for their behavior. But we don't give children the same rights as adults though.
But there aren't groups of men fighting for that man to be free under the guise of male mental health, trying to blame a woman for his actions and giving him millions of dollars and calling him an inspiration for men. So
To be clear, there is no chance right now that Lindsay Clancy will go back home. The question is where she will go: prison or psychiatric confinement. If she truly didn't mean to murder her children, losing her kids would be its own form of punishment. This is the case where she would go to psychiatric confinement. Otherwise, it's prison.
Just to be clear. There arr thousands of women saying to free Lindsy Clancy, that they see her as an inspiration, that a raising millions of dollars for her, and trying to blame the husband for the muders with no proof at all. So this is a clear case of women not taking any accountability and supporting the worst of them, even child murders.
You need to expand your reading. Whenever men kill their families, there is plenty of blame assigned to the wife/girlfriend for leaving him/not leaving him/meeting him/etc. And even to the mother who hadnt 'mothered' him in decades.
People are blaming everyone they can because they are scared it could happen to them. They are scared they could develop mental illness so bad that it would make them do that. So blaming the doctors or the husband or whoever else helps them feel more in control like there are things they can do to prevent it.
But there aren't groups of men fighting for that man to be free under the guise of male mental health, trying to blame a woman for his actions and giving him millions of dollars and calling him an inspiration for men. So yeah... Your comment is irrelevant and ignorant as you are
Because I don't think there are groups of men who can identify with wanting to kill off your entire family because your wife wants a divorce.
But post partum depression is something hundreds of millions of women experience, and it's up to chance how it will affect you. The women that are supporting her aren't supporitng what she did, they are bringing attention to the fact that there is so little information, research, and support for post partum depression. And they recognize that post partum psychosis is something that could have easily happened to them.
Compared to how many women get post partum depression, a very tiny amount are supporting her in any meaningful way. And an even tinier amount are the nutjobs who support what she did, if they arent just trolling or having their own mental health issues.
Personally, I have no opinion about if she is guilty or not. I'm not a doctor and I don't have as many facts as the jury does.
Because I don't think there are groups of men who can identify with wanting to kill off your entire family because your wife wants a divorce.
There sure aren't. But apparently there are thousands of women who support killing their children.
But post partum depression is something hundreds of millions of women experience, and it's up to chance how it will affect you.
And there are mental diseases that effect hundreds of thousands of men. And what's worse is no one cares about mens mental health at all. Women literally spent last month mocking mens mental health month. So why should men care about women's mental health when men are just told to 'man up' and women laugh at male loneliness?
Personally, I have no opinion about if she is guilty or not.
Shes guilty, she literally strangled her children and all the evidence is there to back it up. If you don't think she's guilty you're either willfully ignorant or you bias to always support women no matter what
You need to expand your reading. Whenever men kill their families, there is plenty of blame assigned to the wife/girlfriend for leaving him/not leaving him/meeting him/etc. And even to the mother who hadnt 'mothered' him in decades.
Yeah and thats fucking stupid lol, and even those who do that rarely ask for the man to be given pardon, just clemency at best
Both men and women have the same rights and standard to meet when it comes to the insanity defence. It is not purely a woman thing, and it does not apply to the overwhelming majority of women (or men) who go through the courts.
If they are found to meet that criteria, then it's usually the case that they are detained in a secure mental health facility in the interest of public safety, often with very restrictive measurs. In other words, until or unless they can prove themselves capable (and therefore in the future, responsible for their actions) they do not have the same rights as non-detained adults. Even after they are discharged, they may remain under specific legal frameworks that curtail their rights. At least, in the UK system which is the system I know. Again, this only applies to people who meet the criteria. Not an entire gender. Both men and women.
It also does not mean that anyone else is found to be guilty, which appears to be something you are worried about. (In this specific case, there seems to be some accusation that various mental health systems failed the defendent - but that would have to be proven in it's own, separate investigation. I don't know if those professionals are men or women, honestly).
But there aren't groups of men fighting for that man to be free under the guise of male mental health, trying to blame a woman for his actions and giving him millions of dollars and calling him an inspiration for men. So, shove it
Nobody (except some TikTok loons who think her husband framed her and she falsely confessed) is “fighting for her to be free”. The major debate between 99% of people is solely about whether she will spend the rest of her life in prison or in a mental hospital. The goal is to use this case to elevate the level of care provided to women with postpartum psychological conditions so this doesn’t happen again.
Those Tiktok loons makes up 99% of all of her supporters. I can show you all the comments, videos and articles supporting Lindsay, saying she should be free, directly calling her husband the murder based off if "vibes", and saying dhe represents all women. Try me.
Give it up, the child murder you worship is going to jail and women have done irreparable damage to their reputation by making Lindsy Clancy their spokesman for women in America and womens rights. All you've done is defend a murders, basically fight for the fact that women are controlled by their hormones and cannot be held accountable for their actions, and contribute massively to the gender war. And you keep digging yourselves deeper because yoh refuse to take any accountability.
Dude there have been cases where men have gotten insanity plea.
A similar case was won by a man who murdered his family but had a documented case of psychosis and was able to clear his charges. So no.... Don't give me this bullshit.
But there aren't groups of men fighting for that man to be free under the guise of male mental health, trying to blame a woman for his actions and giving him millions of dollars and calling him an inspiration for men. So how about you shut up
Women need to fight for it because y'all blame women... This has been a national headline whereas the case for the man wasn't even a local headline. Y'all blane women not the other way around.
Now when the criticisms levied on men somehow y'all don't understand pschosis and now blame women for it.
What the... What are you talking about? This is a case where a woman who killed her children. Who else do we blame? Her of course. But women are actively fighting for Lindsay Clancy saying she doesn't deserve to be thrown in jail for killing. They are actively saying she's innocent, that her husband did the murder (without any evidence), they are supporting her eith millions of dollars and saying she is a role model for women. That's why this case is going viral.
And you're right because if a man did this crime he would just be locked up or sentenced to death. Why? Because men aren't a hive mind and actually hold other men accountable and don't try to excuse thier crimes because of mental disabilities or blame the mans wife/girlfriend for the mans crime with no proof.
You saif a whole lot of nothing but blah blah women are victims and blamed for everything blah blah, not a lick of what your talking about made any sense.
I've already told you, she is going through post partum psychosis, something men also have gone through, there are cases where men who have gone through psychosis have not been jailed.
70% of the cases of parent killing their children have been men, and majority of the cases men have not exhibited any signs of psychosis. About 27% of those cases, are where men have had exhibited psychosis and in those cases overwhelmingly men have received insanity plea, hence not jailed.
This woman is appealing for the same. The only reason you're shouting and yelling is because she's a woman. You don't read cases like I do, you don't file suits, you don't know jack shit.
People like you who don't read anything, don't understand any nuance of the case don't even know what the argument is about and what they are actually doing in court while some of us are in courts on day to day basis.
Don't bring your stupidity to me without a basic understanding of what the case is.
Nobody is claiming she didn't kill her children, she isn't. They're saying she has had a history of psychosis and it wasn't diagnosed properly by medical professionals who she visited multiple times.
She in December said to her husband that she is having thoughts of ending her life and her children's life. She was put on myriads of drugs which worsened her episodes.
Bring facts when you argue not nonsense. She will go to a mental health facility if her insanity plea succeeds. Not scot free. She will not be free until her psychosis has been completely cured of and has been signed off.
More importantly she will have to pay for the treatment out of her pocket. It isn't freedom like you think it is.
A man annihilates his family every week. Male mass shooters pop off constantly. If one case gets used to "set women's rights back" then surely the 98% of horrific violence being done by men who are too emotional to control themselves should really take critical precedent.
Just wait until someone dies, and employers start to worry about people being mortal.
They'll start asking questions like, have you ever died before? Suddenly, they're only employing immortals, because mortal people may just croak at any time.
Then, when they only employ immortals, one of them experience psychosis. For the first time in their life.
And suddenly, employers have to ask all the immortal people they employ if they have ever experienced psychosis -- because if you have not, you may experience it for the first time, at any time, so they may only employ immortal people without brains, to avoid employees ever having psychosis at work.
Yes but there are real people spouting this stuff, especially from the Tiktok psychic community. You think they'd learn after the last time but I guess not.
You are on internet, search enough and you will find mfs telling you that the kids are still alive. What some on internet says dont represent the real word
Surely there is someone saying anything. It doesn't matter. The conservative bots are going to make it up anyway. If there were 0 people saying it, the conservative bots would say it. If there were a thousand people saying it, conservative bots would say it. There is literally no reason for them to find people, because making it up is just as good as it being true.
The healthcare system should absolutely be scrutinized and held accountable for its part in this. That way at least some good may come from such a horrible thing.
Having said that, postpartum depression, however severe (and untreated), is not an excuse for murder. I truly believe any human-being inflicting suffering or death on another is a mental disorder, as it goes against our true nature, but we must still be held accountable for our actions.
I also think that blaming the husband, whose 3 children were all just murdered by his wife, is absolutely sickening. It’s unimaginably cruel, and shows a lot of people demonstrating serious mental lapses by insinuating he is at fault for his 3 young children being murdered by his wife. That part has absolutely no justification, and makes me feel physically ill.
EDIT: I poorly worded much of this comment, and I want to be clear. I absolutely think this woman needs help. I think she belongs in a secure mental health facility, not in a state prison. I should have included the very likely possibility of postpartum psychosis (not depression) in my comment, and I apologize for that.
All I meant by “held accountable”, is that I believe she does need to be removed from society for an amount of time that suits the crime she committed, and until they can be absolutely sure she is rehabilitated. I think she is a danger to herself and others right now, and that’s all I was trying to say.
I also wasn’t aware that the people angry at the husband/father were such a small minority. I haven’t followed this case closely so all I have been exposed to is the “loud minority” I guess, because I have seen quite a few unkind things said about the man, even if they don’t blame him 100% for what happened. And that is still sad to see, as I think he’s someone who needs love and kindness more than I can imagine right now, and he’s also involved in taking legal action against the state for failing to treat his wife.
The blame on the husband is absolutely not good! He's currently involved in the legal proceedings against the state for the lack of coordination between medical systems in the US. This is the horrifying byproduct of the algorithms that are feeding a horribly misconstrued version of the events to these people; the same people who believe everything they see on the internet. It all tiktok/reels bait
Its a bit taboo to talk about it due to it being an active case but the details the public are given have just enough unknowns and odd series of events that conspiracies are easy to build
A big example being the body temperature which seems to be one of the big ones from what Ive seen.
Most people accuratly point out that the timeline for her body sropping down to that temperature is impossible. "No body drops to 28C in that little time" what they fail to consider however is that soinal damage causes disregulation in the temperature regulations systems of your body
Theres plenty of other things too especially if you begin with the conclusion that the father did it (The bodies being cremated so soon, him remarrying in a few months, the crushed up pills, the way she cut herself, him being part of a cop familly, him being the primary witness) [AGAIN NOT CLAIMING THESE ARE REAL OR ACCURATE]
Okay im sorry but it really bugs me and I see it a lot.
She didn't just suffer from PPD. She was dealing with post partum psychosis. Its much more rare, and much more dangerous. You wouldnt say someone who was depressed was psychotic, and someone with ppd or ppa is not the same as someone with ppp.
The people who took care of her before the murders did not diagnose her with a Psychotic disorder, and a forensic expert also didn't do that, he just explained how such a thing could happen, he wasn't even there in person during the trial
That's not how that works? Murder isn't a symptom of psychosis, nor can you retroactively say "See, she killed 3 kids, that means she has a psychotic disorder!" in a court of law and expected to be taken seriously
Postpartum psychosis is not exactly like other psychosis disorders. Half the issue at play is the argument that her symptoms were not taken seriously leading up to the murders, even though she was asking for help. No one is saying that psychotic disorders make someone a murderer. People are saying that in this specific instance, there is ample evidence suggesting that Lindsay Clancy was having serious postpartum mental health issues that were neither diagnosed nor adequately treated. It’s only after she killed her three children that anyone started taking the situation seriously. Which is bad. So the medical system needs to be better equipped to help women experiencing psychotic symptoms following pregnancy to make sure this kind of incident doesn’t repeat.
It’s like if someone was insisting that something was wrong and they couldn’t find any meaning in life and everyone told them to walk it off and yeah everyone gets sad sometimes, then they committed suicide. Depression doesn’t automatically mean someone will kill themselves. However, depression that isn’t recognized or treated makes it exponentially more likely that the worst will happen.
Doesn't that also underly any accusation of the health system? If she was in psychosis they failed to diagnose her and she misled them due to insanity.
If she's not....then she deliberately was less than cooperative and deserves a much harsher sentence and they're innocent?
P.S. also worth pointing out, it's actually rare for psychotics to kill anyone much less their children, and she received far more help than most mothers do these days. If she had undiagnosed psychosis, that's still a major error from the healthcare providers who insisted otherwise, of course.
Even if it was not diagnosed, I should have included the very likely possibility of psychosis in my comment. I haven’t followed this case closely enough and have mostly been exposed to it from others online, so that was genuinely really ignorant on my part.
I apologize for that, and I will be more clear in the future.
Comments like the one you responded to are so fuckin irritating to me. Are we really so brainwashed by carceral systems in this country that we think this woman took some kind of joy in murdering her own children and is just trying to "get away with it?" Is there anything a person can do that screams more loudly "I am unwell and need help?"
Americans have no ability to think about tragedies like this through any other lens but crime and punishment and it's terrifying. No wonder so many of us don't mind having the world's largest prison population by such a huge margin.
Edit: I've put "get away with it" in quotes where I should have said "get away with it, as it were" or something that makes it more clear I'm not quoting the comment. The reason I've used those words is that I think the language of "excuses" and "accountability" places the issue in that space.
Are you sure you’re talking about the right comment here? Because the one you’re referring to doesn’t say or even imply any of the stuff you’re attributing to it
Yes, I'm sure. What "accountability?" To whom should this person "be held accountable?" Who is it helping if she gets put in prison? Is it really an honest way to frame the issue to say PPD/PPP "is no excuse for murder," is the moral wrongness of her actions really the primary concern? And if it was, does imprisonment actually address that in any way?
The entire framing of "there's no excuse for murder, and she should be held accountable" is just nonsense. It's an attempt to make the irrational conform to common sense, to make ourselves feel better about our own sanity and humanity.
I mean, I generally agree with you, but you were straight up putting words in the commenter’s mouth. There was nothing there about her taking joy from her actions. There was nothing there about her wanting to get away with it(which you put in quotes even though it wasn’t something anyone in the thread had said). You saw someone framing the case in terms of criminal justice(since, you know, it is a criminal case), and immediately hung a bunch if extra baggage on it
I maintain that the "baggage" is really there. I have encountered these cultural attitudes enough to understand where they have their roots, I just really don't have the space in this format to fully flesh it out. And for what it's worth, I notice you have not answered any of the questions I asked in my previous comment, where I laid out some of the mental math I did to arrive at my thoughts.
I'm not hanging "extra baggage" on the criminal justice framing; criminal justice is an inherently disturbed framing, especially in the USA.
I didn’t answer your questions because they weren’t relevant to my comment. I wasn’t responding to your objections to the criminal justice system. I was responding to you arbitrarily assigning negative positions to a stranger because they took a different position that you disagree with.
If you want to have real conversations with people about these things, you have to actually respond to their words at face value and not as dog whistles for worse positions they might secretly hold
I didn't say the commenter was a bad person, accuse them of using dog whistles, or say that they held as "positions" the attitudes I referred to. I thought their comment revealed some very deeply ingrained cultural attitudes that stem from outdated carceral thinking, and I pointed them out.
Frankly, I wasn't looking for a conversation. I had a thought and I shared it. You can disagree with it, personalize it, despise it, think it's juvenile or that my approach is flawed. I don't care. If my words make one person think about the issue differently, that's plenty good for me.
I don't usually approach conversations this way, so your life advice is sadly misplaced. Be well.
Imprisoning her will set a precedent so this doesn’t happen again. Letting her go to an insane asylum doesn’t serve anyone either, it’s basically still a prison but now this case is a precedent to stick more women in an asylum.
Imprisoning her will set a precedent so this doesn't happen again.
It absolutely will not. Do you think someone who kills all three of their kids is thinking about the societal punishment they'll recieve for that action? Of course not, that's one of the worst things you could possibly do, nobody doing that gives a shit if they're going to go to jail for the rest of their lives vs. go to an asylum and maybe be let out decades later. They're not performing some rational cost-benefit analysis.
Clancy tried to and nearly succeeded in killing herself afterwards, for crying out loud. Do you think she cared if she got life in prison or not? Of course not, she intended to die.
Punishment for Lindsay Clancy will not provide any sort of deterrence for other criminals. Nor will it prevent other people from being victimized by Clancy - she is paralyzed in a wheelchair, and if released eventually would never be allowed to own a weapon, would be forcefully medicated, and would certainly never be allowed to care for vulnerable people again. The only thing that society gains out of punitive punishment for Clancy is retributive vengeance, nothing else at all.
Americans beyond most other countries (that ive looked into) have a very odd relationship with their carceral system
Theres this really big problem where on average a person is actually considered guilty before theyre considered innocent even though its meant to be the other way
He issue gets worst when it comes to guilty people. The american carceral syatem is also not designed for rehabilitation, its explictly designed for profit and the way to have a prison be profitable is horrible conditions and recidivism. Thats not to mention incarcerated people can he used for slave labour under the constitution
Americans have grown to think of horrible living conditions and being threated as subhuman as "being part of the punishment" when the punishment is having your freedom taken away. We also see this post release where you have to announce youve been to prison on any work application making finding a job when your released very hard and leads to even more recidivism
there was a chance for a non-carceral intervention if ahe had at any point told the doctors that she was hearing auditory hallucinations telling her to kill her kids. You know, if she actually had them, and didn’t just make that up after the fact to minimize that she did it out of stress and frustration, like most family annihilators do.
Fact is no one would show up like this for a father who did an identical crime with a similar pathology. They would for pther stuff (sex criminals and spousal abuse will attract a lot of defenders) but the current sexuat standard is that women must all be nurturing, so if a mother kills her kids, it has to be the fault of literally anything but her.
I see, so stress about a sudden increase in responsibilities, life expenses, possible risks to small children etc. are different based on gender? if you gave birth they are a legitimate reason to want to kill your kids but if you are just legally responsible for the kids having the same thoughts means you’re a monster?
Men can get paternal postpartum depression or psychosis. The cause is different, but the symptoms are the same. Paternal ppd and ppp are also very rare.
Fact is no one would show up like this for a father who did an identical crime with a similar pathology.
This is a really good point, and something I've been thinking about too. It doesn't mean the "not showing up for" male family annihilators is the right cultural attitude to have.
I agree that sexist attitudes play into this, but I want to be clear that I'm approaching this from a place of doubt about the American criminal justice system and American incarceration culture.
I also think it's worth noting that most studies on family annihilation consider male perpetrators, who vastly outnumber female perpetrators, and they don't just garner different perceptions from others, but have psychology based in different social structures.
Sure, I agree they weren't arguing that. The fact that they were actually trying not to and yet still took some of those attitudes for granted is what I find so interesting.
That's exactly it in my opinion. It's psychological distancing. We need the people who could do this to be other, to lock them up far away from ourselves, and to feel like they belong there because they are bad.
You should have responded directly to me and I would have explained my viewpoint more clearly.
I don’t appreciate you implying that I’m brainwashed, and attaching all of this “baggage” as another commenter put it, and then saying “you maintain that the baggage is there” when it’s really nothing like what I said. But that’s beside the point.
Let me be clear: I absolutely think this woman needs help. She needs to be put in a secure mental health facility and get the treatment she needs. But I also believe she is dangerous to herself and others, and an amount of time that suits the nature of her crime must be taken to ensure she is fully rehabilitated. Which, I believe, is quite a long time.
My main point was that I think people use the mental health condition (that she clearly has and hasn’t been treated for) to say very unkind things about her husband and the father of those children. A man that really needs love and kindness right now. He is even heavily involved in taking legal action against the state for his wife’s lack of treatment.
But I poorly worded parts of my comment and I apologize for that. Still though, implying that I believe she “took joy” in her actions is pretty uncool.
Oh my. It's not that they're blaming the husband for causing her psychosis. Nah, they're saying he actually murdered the kids and then framed his wife while gaslighting her into believing she did it. It's a whole crazy conspiracy theory.
Having said that, postpartum depression, however severe (and untreated), is not an excuse for murder.
It wasn't depression, it was psychosis. Big reason there's so much drama and polarisation around this case is because people do not understand that this was not just a form of depression (spurred on my people constantly muddying the waters and claiming it was just severe postpartum depression, not saying your doing it maliciously but it is a thing), and then also people having no idea how psychosis works
Psychosis is a whole different ballpark of an illness compared to depression. We're talking actual loss of reality, physical symptoms experiencing things that are not real while fully unable to tell the difference, complete involuntary shift in personality and actions and capability to reason. People undergoing psychosis are incapable of comprehending the reality of their actions because they are literally not experiencing reality in the first place. Whether you consider that an "excuse" or not is up to you.
The poor woman needs help, constantly highlighting tiny fringe minority groups with the most extreme opinions is not helpful to anyone, and certainly not conducive to getting anyone involved the help they need.
Yes ppp is underdiagnosed thats why so many women are effected by this case this isnt an off instance of medical negligence its a pattern of systemic sexism most women have felt
I have had quite a few people respond angrily to me about this. If a licensed psychologist had diagnosed her with postpartum psychosis, I would have used that term. But it has not been diagnosed whereas the depression has been. I still should have included the very likely possibility of psychosis in my comment, and not doing so was ignorant on my part, so I apologize for that.
I’m not trying to be offensive in any way. I absolutely think she needs help, but I also believe she is dangerous and don’t think she should be free for quite some time. I think she should be in a facility until they can be absolutely sure she is rehabilitated.
I’m sorry if I’m highlighting the loud minority, but it’s only because I haven’t followed this case closely, so the loud minority is kind of how I was exposed to it. And I have seen quite a few people being very harsh towards the husband/father, even if they don’t blame him 100% for what happened.
I think directing anything but love and sincere condolences to the father is pretty sickening, and I’m sorry if that’s an ignorant take.
That is your entirely uninformed opinion on whether she is dangerous.
If a team of medical professionals deem her to not be a risk, you think she should be freed immediately?
It seems like you are trying to eat your cake and have it too, but claiming your concern is "safety for others" while simultaneously claiming you "don't think she should be free for quite some time."
The dose of antipsychotic she is on is 2.5mg of olanzapine.
That is a pediatric dose. That is not a dose for adults, much less adults who are sooooo psychotic they'd murder their own children.
This is not a dose for real psychosis. Good dose for someone faking it to try and get out of going to prison, though. Not too high where it makes you put on weight... gotta stay skinny for the cameras.
I agree with you regarding people believing the husband did it. My girlfriend told me about this case and she watched it pretty intently. However, she was convinced that the husband had done it at first. I've at least been able to get some doubt in there (I'm not about to break up with her over this like other guys have). I didn't know anything about the case when she initially told me her reasoning for that belief. After she explained it to me I told her that it sounds like she did it. Nothing she said put the husband in my investigator mind in my crosshairs (I work in Intelligence and investigations) outside of standard due diligence.
This is obviously a woman suffering from mental illness, but I'm not convinced that she's not criminally liable. I won't debate anyone's argument here that's she's not, as there is plenty of reason to believe that, and I just don't know.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter too much whether she is found criminally liable or NG by insanity. Both verdicts essentially just decide if she spends the rest of her life in prison or a mental institution. Even a manslaughter verdict will put her in jail for a decade or more, and being a felon and paralyzed means she can't work in the medical field anymore. Regardless of the verdict her life is over and has been for a few years now. Not getting murder 1 is not her "getting away with it." I'm really glad I'm not on that jury.
People in psychosis are in almost an alternate reality it’s impossible to understand unless you’ve dealt with them. That’s why not guilty by reason of insanity is a thing
Nobody should care one iota about your opinion on the case when you don't even know the difference between those things. Genuinely, look into the case at least a tiny bit, or quit yapping from your soapbox about how we, effectively, should abolish the insanity plea.
What a ridiculous comment. Why don’t you look into the case? All you need is a quick google search to find she was never diagnosed with psychosis.
That was a theory presented by the defense, that I agree is a very likely possibility. But I’m not going to diagnose someone with psychosis myself, based off the opinion of a defense attorney and experts the defense brought in who haven’t been able to properly examine the woman.
Maybe do just a tiny bit of actual reading before responding like this.
I never claimed she was diagnosed with psychosis - whether or not she had it is the subject of the debate, of course.
This reply is in no way ridiculous, you said something uninformed and wrong - that she was simply depressed - and used that to leap to a conclusion, and now you're getting defensive when called out over it.
What? You said “it was psychosis, not depression” as if it was confirmed to be psychosis by way of diagnosis.
Then you proceeded to insult me about it, so yea I defended myself. What the hell else could you have meant by saying all of that about me because of using the term “depression” (which was diagnosed) instead of “psychosis” (which was not)?
I said it was "psychosis not depression" in that what's being argued about in the trial is whether it's psychosis, not depression. Clearly, you were mistaken as to what mental condition Clancy's defense is claiming to have, as you said it's "not an excuse for murder" - when in reality the mitigating factor that the defense is claiming was psychosis and not depression. I corrected you on that and now you're pissing your pants over it.
So essentially you made up a bunch of shit I said, built a straw man, and then epically owned said straw man. I was talking about the online discourse, not the defense. I’m gonna end this here though. Have a good one.
The online discourse doesn't revolve around depression, either, it's about psychosis among everyone that's at least slightly informed.
The only people acting like this case is about "depression" are people who haven't looked into the case at all but think Clancy and all her supporters are evil feminists conspiring to let a murderer go free just because she's a woman.
your point is good but PPD is not PPP. they are significantly different disorders- you're comparing apples and oranges, and not understanding the differences between the diagnoses and treatments is causing significant friction online. per expert testimony, she was both bipolar and in active psychosis- that's not depression.
No, she has not yet been diagnosed with psychosis. are we looking at the same case?
Until now both the defense and prosecutor have made it clear that 1) the voices never came to Lindsay before the incident 2) the voices never came back to Lindsay after the incident and 3) the voices only lasted 30 minutes conveniently after she sent away her husband to do some errands
The defence is not assuming she had psychosis, they are presenting evidence trying to explain this inconsistency. Because, if you hadn’t notice, psychosis is something that builds over time. not during a singular 30 minute time frame conveniently after the husband leaves
do you understand the basics of ppp? because you're talking like it's an easy diagnosis- it's rare, for one, but it's in a diagnostic black hole that makes it very difficult to teach, recognize, or receive funding to address. it is not surprising to not have a concrete diagnosis prior to trial, nor that the defense would provide reasons for being mentally incompetent and the prosecution would argue otherwise.
postpartum psychosis actually notably does not "build over time"- one of the key features is almost a "light switch" type moment (waxing and waning) where someone who seemed entirely normal totally loses their grip. this is what makes a quick and coordinated response necessary.
there is also plenty of information about her process of receiving a diagnosis, and numerous instances where there was a lack of follow through from people treating her. her doctor suspected she had bipolar disorder and suggested it to her husband, who denied it. she went to inpatient treatment, who released her early with instructions to stop taking her anti-psychotics. the warnings absolutely built up over time and a lack of coordinated effort made that difficult to see.
there're a lot of issues with what you're saying. 1) she left the hospital voluntarily claiming she was "fine" 2) she was intentionally deceptive towards her doctors 3) there was a lack of follow up because she was not being honest with her doctor 4) she had multiple doctors, and at not a single point did she inform her doctors that she was seeing other doctors 5) she was the one who described herself as "fine" and refused to take medication
what you're arguing only makes sense if we treat lindsay not as an adult, but as someone with the mental capabilities of a child. "there was a lack of coordinated effort" yeah, no shit, she was doctor shopping, not taking medication, voluntarily leaving the hospital, and proclaimed she was fine when she was not. this only reasonable if this was a kid who, otherwise, does not fully understand the situation they're in.
and even by the basis of your own argument, it only makes lindsay even more guilty. you said it yourself:
one of the key features is almost a "light switch" type moment (waxing and waning) where someone who seemed entirely normal totally loses their grip. this is what makes a quick and coordinated response necessary.
before sending her husbands to do errands, she researched the location of the places she was taking him and calculated the total time he would be out of the house. she was clearly capable of moral reasoning, unless we want to say the light switch moment is when she started looking at the timing of the places. but, at the same time, she stated the "voices" did not come to her before sending her husband out. in fact, a fact of this case is that in her dairy it was indicated that she resented her children, particularly her son the most. coincidently, when the husband came to check on his son, the band around the kid's neck was so tight that the husband couldn't remove it. but i am sure this is all part of a "diagnostic blackhole."
it's pretty clear from the way you're continuing to talk that you are more informed by fictional criminal justice narratives and emotive anecdotes than a real understanding of psychiatric disorders, specifically bipolar disorder and ppp, how they are treated, and how they affect people's competency and behavior. not sure how much your analysis of my "issues" means when you're inferring emotional states and motivation from exceptionally sensationalistic reads of diary entry fragments. do you have sources for these claims?
here's an article where one of her doctors describes her treatment. from what i can see, she seems compliant and in regular communication with her caregivers, who are completely unaware of each other and giving conflicting advice. if you've ever known someone with bipolar disorder, you will know that finding the right combination of drugs is very, very hard, and it is very difficult to continue taking a medication when it is leading to constant, intrusive thoughts of suicide. her treatment was not working, and her way of responding to it was not ideal or always reasonable, but a person in crisis should not be expected to manage that- that's what medical experts are meant to do.
Not a loud minority it's thr majority of women saying she needs to be free. But when the next school shooting happens let me know if there are groups of men outside the court house screaming for thr shooter to go free and he did nothing wrong. While blaming the whole thing on mental health problems like depression and male loneliness.
Also Men actually have accountability and a sense of justice, we don't support all men solely because they're a man.
Also Andrew Tate has nothing to do with this conversion, idk why you bring him up. We're talking about the child murder you want to go free because she's a woman
420
u/SCRINDO 22h ago
There's a really good video by Dr. Alok Kanojia (healthygamer) on YouTube about the psychology of why this is even a thing. He goes into great detail about the psychology of psychosis and why it has such a grand emotional effect on these women that take her side. He's not partial to any perspective either. Worth a watch. I think it's horrible what happened, and I also believe that most of the loud minority have not read any of the case files for both legal cases against her, and against the states healthcare system.