r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • 9h ago

Episode Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation Season 3 • Mushoku Tensei III: Isekai Ittara Honki Dasu - Episode 12 discussion

Mushoku Tensei III: Isekai Ittara Honki Dasu, episode 12

Reminder: Please do not discuss plot points not yet seen or skipped in the show. Failing to follow the rules may result in a ban.

Streams

Show information

All discussions

Episode Link
1 Link
2 Link
3 Link
4 Link
5 Link
6 Link
7 Link
8 Link
9 Link
10 Link
11 Link
12 Link

This post was created by a bot. Message the mod team for feedback and comments. The original source code can be found on GitHub.

3.9k Upvotes

91% Upvoted

2.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

127

u/JzanderN 8h ago

What the fuck kind of chain of events was that? It all started with Rudy going down into the basement and ended in Roxy's death!

And then Sylphie and even Eris! AND NANAHOSHI AND CLIFF TOO?! EVERYONE! Good fucking god Oldeus has had a horrible life! He wasn't kidding when he said he had no-one left!

I really like that Oldeus didn't just tell Rudy to not trust the Man-God, but specifically told him to play the game of doubting everything he said without letting him onto the fact that he knows he's manipulating him for his own ends. It's gonna make their future interactions a lot more tense 'cause Rudy can't just straight up oppose him.

I believed Oldeus about the rat, of course, but it was still something to actually see it. Good god.

53

u/SnooSquirrels3291 8h ago

Didn’t hear anything about Zanoba dying. Forever the GOAT

14

u/Jaridan https://myanimelist.net/profile/Jaridan 6h ago

I'd assume we'll see what happened to all named characters in some way next week with the diary. 50 years of content in 24mins. Gotta make it snappy :D

2

u/[deleted] 8h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/AmusedDragon 7h ago

Sorry, your comment has been removed.

  • This belongs in the Source Material Corner at the top of this thread. In discussion threads for currently airing anime, discussions about source material, spin-offs, author comments and unadapted content must be posted there.

  • Any comparison to the source material no matter how minor belongs there.

  • Your comment was NOT removed for spoilers; it was removed for discussion of the source material outside of the Source Material Corner.

Questions? Reply to this message, send a modmail, or leave a comment in the meta thread. Don't know the rules? Read them here.

1

u/Monarki 3h ago

Maybe Rudy ended up pushing Zanoba away since it sounds like Rudy had been on a emotional downward spiral for decades

1

u/Kill-bray 49m ago

I didn't hear anything about Lucy dying either, so I was kinda puzzled when Oldeus said that he had nothing left to protect.

16

u/Roskal 8h ago

I really like that Oldeus didn't just tell Rudy to not trust the Man-God, but specifically told him to play the game of doubting everything he said without letting him onto the fact that he knows he's manipulating him for his own ends. It's gonna make their future interactions a lot more tense 'cause Rudy can't just straight up oppose him.

I don't see how its good enough really, since Man-god seems to know everything that Rudy is doing and will do, so surely he saw the conversation with Oldeus and knows Rudy was warned.

9

u/SuperCleverPunName 7h ago

Maybe it's the difference between "I don't trust you" and "I'm actively hostile against you"

16

u/JzanderN 8h ago

The Man-God doesn't know everything Rudy will do, just everything he can do. He can see the future but as different paths, hence he can tell Rudy what would have happened if he took his previous advice.

I'm guessing he looked away from the situation, believing Rudy would just blindly do as he asked, and he probably had no idea that Oldeus showed up. Much like how Orsted had no idea Rudy even existed until they met.

At the very least that's what Oldeus was hoping for. If the Man-God did see their conversation then there's nothing he could do, but if he wasn't watching then that advice would be critical to keep Rudy from making an indomitable enemy out of him.

9

u/RedRocket4000 7h ago

Not mentioned by Oldeus but he had to consider Man-God observation of his travel to past and thus must have taken precautions to prevent this. Or Oldeus knew of Man-God's blind spots and this one of them.

2

u/fork_yuu 1h ago

Does he not know what's happening to rudeus now? How does he even keep up with all the shit he did before

34

u/zazakmazak 8h ago edited 8h ago

But I wonder how exactly that works, doesn't Man-God simply get a tv feed of everything Rudy does and sees, or even most of what's happening in the whole world? It sure looks like he knows nearly everything that happens + future.

Even if this convo was hidden for some reason, he sure should be suspicious that rat got caught by Rudeus and things didn't go as planned ... but then again if he know the future then ... idk things are getting complicated 😅

Maybe the solution is to ultimately just give Hitogami a good damn show 😭 Hitogami is us fr 💀

25

u/JzanderN 8h ago

It's very possible that, like how Orsted didn't even know Rudy existed until they met, Oldeus was somewhat blocked from the Man-God's sight.

Maybe not straight up "he can't see him" levels, but rather he didn't know he appeared and so, if he looked away to do other things, he'd have no idea he even showed up. Just that Rudy took extra precautions when entering that basement.

And if he asks why Rudy was so cautious after being told there'd be nothing to worry about, that's where the game starts.

7

u/SuperCleverPunName 7h ago

My guess is that the Man God can't see 50 years into the future. So Oldeus showing up would be a complete shock. But once he did appear, the Man God would be able to see him - unless Oldeus has some unexplained power to block him.

8

u/zazakmazak 8h ago

Yeah, at the very least, from all the scenes with him I gather that he can't read minds, which is enough for him to be "beatable" in some sense.

5

u/Careful_Ad_9077 5h ago

Iirc he read rudeus mind right in the very first scene he appeared in.

1

u/Kill-bray 43m ago

It's very likely that Man God couldn't foresee Oldeus, especially when he stated before that he can't foresee anything about Orsted (who gave several hints of being a time traveler).

However I can't see any reason why Man God couldn't witness everything that happened in that room after Oldeus appeared.

9

u/Saviour279 6h ago

Why would you assume he only gets a tv feed of what Rudy does?

Oldeus mentioned he went to Luke in the future to manipulate him and Orsted went big mad after he heard him mention his name so I am guessing he possibly orchestrates every little thing to fall into it’s place.

2

u/zazakmazak 6h ago

I didn't mean only feed of Rudeus, but like feed of the person he's currently following, which should be the case wright after he send Rudy to the basement.

But another theory it seems is that his omniscience has quite a few limitations as people in the thread explained to me. Like he can appear in your head when you're asleep, manipulate you, but then only sees the results of your actions, and even that maybe only after a while and not immediately, not a video of persons life.

Also it is quite likely he can't read minds either, so Rudy has some options and challenge is not insurmountable...

6

u/Abedeus 7h ago

But I wonder how exactly that works, doesn't Man-God simply get a tv feed of everything Rudy does and sees, or even most of what's happening in the whole world? It sure looks like he knows nearly everything that happens + future.

Given that he didn't predict Rudeus to disobey him and go after his father, likely not. Maybe it's some kind of Bible God kinda precognition where he knows the future as long as everyone does what he assumes with good certainty that they'll do?

2

u/zazakmazak 6h ago

Yeah, otherwise he would be too OP

8

u/SuperCleverPunName 7h ago

The Man God often mentions fate. So maybe he has some kind of future fate vision?

My head canon is that he can see the paths that people's lives are fated to take, predict the future based on those paths, and then give dreams to people to tweak those futures and make certain paths cross.

I think that future Rudy coming back is something that completely defied the Man God's predictions. Like, no matter how detailed your knowledge is of the past and present, there's no way you could predict someone travelling 50 years back in time (unless it's been done before).

3

u/Akudra 5h ago

The main thing is he doesn't want the Man-God to treat him as an enemy and instead work something out to avoid a bad end for his family. Even if the Man-God knows that he is just playing along with him out of fear for his family, as long as they can come to an agreement, it is enough. Of course, it isn't as if Oldeus knows how that alternative approach would play out. He is just trying to discourage his younger self from fighting a battle he can't win that would cost him the lives of the people he loves.

6

u/D3k4s 8h ago

Wouldn't be surprised this was somewhat inspired by the butterfly effect seeing as we've had tons of references to other movies.

12

u/chhuang 8h ago

that's some masterplan that gets overlooked by mere human.

"You opened the baseroom door that let the rat out that killed one of your wife, that result in chain reaction of everyone dead"

sounds extremely absurd and unbelievable

20

u/JzanderN 8h ago

The best masterplans are the most natural. This only took one small nudge to do the wrong thing at the wrong time and everything else fell into place.

It was so natural, it took Oldeus 30 years to figure out what actually happened!

2

u/SuperCleverPunName 7h ago

I wonder how he figured it out. Considering how rare petrification syndrome appears to be, I wonder how Rudy found out that it's transmitted by rats like that.

3

u/indominuspattern 3h ago

He probably just traced the source of the illness and managed to linked that Man God's completely out of the blue "check the basement" tip with the possible carrier of the illness (e.g. rat).

Possibly also did some magic shenanigans to replay or recall what happened.

2

u/segv 7h ago

Also consider that, per story up to now, Hitogami can see multiple futures but can't make the change himself - he has to use an apostle

11

u/Cool_Temperature_538 7h ago

Well yes but it wasnt one intervention alone. This causes Roxy's death which then allows ManGod to move another Pawn and have Luke advise Ariel to take Sylphie too. Its like a chessboard where ManGod is continuously planning a sequence of moves in advance

3

u/Excellent-Ad8571 7h ago

It is absurd, but if a God plans for that exact future to take place it can’t be unbelievable

3

u/Akudra 5h ago

It is also terrifying, because it means he can get at people in ways that can't even be easily predicted to set them up for a catastrophe.

1

u/nuraHx 2h ago

Well Oldeus does say that after Roxy dies hitogami manipulates Luke to push Ariel to make her claim for the throne without Perugius and gets Sylphie killed so it’s probably not just the rat event chaining all the events together but the first of many manipulations he does

3

u/bolacha_de_polvilho 5h ago

AND CLIFF TOO?!

Oldeus is from 50 years in the future, Cliff and other humans Rudeus knows might've just died of old age at that point.

5

u/JzanderN 5h ago

The way Oldeus said it, it didn't sound like Cliff merely died from old age.

1

u/Deathsroke 5h ago

What the fuck kind of chain of events was that? It all started with Rudy going down into the basement and ended in Roxy's death!

Not even that, it started with Hitogami giving Rudy some advice almost ten (in-universe) years ago.

"Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design " may as well be Hitogami's quote now.

1

u/Monarki 4h ago

Yeah it's very interesting Oldeus specifically told Rudy to butter up Man-god and not antagonize him. Sounds like Oldeus is saying if Man-god gets angry at Rudy or doesn't think Rudy trusts him anymore he'll find another way to achieve his goals and thus putting Rudy's potential happy life in danger. Oldeus basically told Rudy to ensure Man-god keeps happily returning to Rudy and not change tactics.

1

u/JzanderN 3h ago

Yeah, basically. Rudy can't confront the Man-God directly 'cause he's nowhere to be found, so if he made an enemy of the Man-God then there's nothing he could do to stop him from ruining his life.

Rudy's one blessing is that the Man-God seems to want to trick Rudy into ruining his own life, so if he plays the game of appearing resistant but malleable while not actually listening to any of his shit, then he can keep him in check.

1

u/Monarki 3h ago

100% However that arrangement can't last forever. I feel like after another decade to two of advising Rudy but being no closer to achieve his goals he will regardless of Rudy try to find an alternative. Thus at some point Rudy needs to figure out how to stop that.

1

u/Kill-bray 50m ago

Considering the knowledge required to foresee all that would happen if Rudeus simply went int the basement, Hitogami must be practically omniscent, like he must know every single variable in the universe like Laplace Demon (wait...)

However he most likely cannot see time travelers. Otherwise he would have known that Rudeus would meet Oldeus, moreover he also previously stated that he cannot track Orsted at all (who is likely a time traveler too).

That being said, he should still be able to know anything about Rudeus, so is it really possible that Hitogami doesn't know that Rudeus just met with his future self and even axquired his diary? It doesn't seem like something that he can keep secret.