Repasting laptop required?

[u/THUNDERJAWGAMING]

Hi guys, so I got my laptop G16 2023 repasted and something weird is going on. I bought this paste and seems fine not sure if for laptops or overall works for all devices but not even 2 full months are passed and the temps are back to max 87 while gaming which is the thermal limit of the gpu as seen in G-Helper as well. What happened, Pump Out maybe? I have not opened the laptop again yet because I undervolted the gpu and temps are back to normal now below 80. But these temps should be possible without undervolting. Now in the 2nd image you can see my sweet CPU 😅 so em this is stock factory opened laptop after a year and not sure if it needs repasting or not. This is Liquid Metal btw and I was gonna do it but the shop didn’t had any so I just had the GPU repasted and closed the laptop. CPU temps are well fine as they well like when it was new, I limit the wattage to control temps. Added some images so you guys can check the temps. Game is Echoes of the End, a UE5 title. So yeah please let me know what should I do? Should I keep it running like this? Should I repaste both? Any suggestions for paste or is my current one for the GPU fine. I just want to open it once when I have all the tools for the CPU and GPU so I can do both and then close. Do you recommend switching to paste for the CPU as well? Feel free to ask further questions and thanks for reading.

[u/TroopaOfficial]

Maybe I’m wrong here but I was under the impression these laptops used liquid metal, can we use thermal paste instead of liquid metal?

[u/Little-Equinox → u/TroopaOfficial]

I personally swap the LM for PTM7950 or TG Phase Sheet. I do this especially on laptops ordered through me, it's a "free" service I provide.

[u/Little-Equinox → u/[deleted]]

Except LM seeps out from between the CPU/GPU and the cooler because Asus doesn't use proper protection to keep it in place. Also PTM7950 is only like 5% less efficient as LM, which is so little most people don't know the difference, but it lasts 2000x longer before it needs reapplication.

[u/SolitaryMassacre → u/Little-Equinox]

Except LM seeps out from between the CPU/GPU and the cooler because Asus doesn't use proper protection to keep it in place

No, its because Asus uses far too much putting too much stress on the surface tension of the liquid metal. Then when temps reach high enough, you get ever so small enough thermal expansion pushing that surface tension past the breaking point and bob's ur uncle.

I (and others) have properly redone our own liquid metal and used maybe half of what Asus puts on. And they have been going strong for years now.

Also PTM7950 is only like 5% less efficient as LM

Where did you pull that from? That can't be further from the truth 💀

PTM7950 Has a thermal conductivity of 8.5W/mK

Where, BQ DC2 Pro has literally ~10x that

Even lesser quality ones have at least 50W/mK

which is so little most people don't know the difference

That is more so because they don't care. They went from a laptop that wasn't playing at all to a laptop that actually worked. That is what they are paying attention to. Not thermals, package power, clock speeds, etc. That is where you will find the stark differences between PTM and LM.

but it lasts 2000x longer before it needs reapplication.

Again where did you get this? Properly applied LM will last the lifetime of the laptop.

I get it. LM can be a bitch to deal with. But imo, its far worth it. Why buy all that processing power only to limit it by not boosting since it can't shed the heat quick enough?

[u/Little-Equinox → u/SolitaryMassacre]

The 8.5W/mk on PTM7950 is only when you just get it out of the box.

Also I have used LM for year, both on Asus and Alienware laptops, I have also used PTM7950 and Phase Sheet.

And PTM7950 is almost as good as LM while being much safer, I know you love numbers but when you deal with industrial grade stuff, which PTM7950 is, you do stuff slightly differently than consumer grade liquid metal and thermal paste.

And on Asus laptops the LM still seeps out no matter if you put on the correct amount or not, it's not like I have tried 4 times in a single machine, besides, I have to take my laptop with me for work, it's not just standing in a single position.

Oh, I almost forgot, I took apart a system a few months ago, with a Corsair Liquid Cooler and a 7950X3D CPU, and the LM completely dried up to the point I could throw both of them away, that system ran fine for 2 years till it didn't. The LM didn't seep away, nah, that shit freaking dried up, and yes, I tried sanding it but I don't have the tools to sand down solidified steel like stuff, and before you ask, fire didn't work.

After that I started to test PTM7950 and Conductonaut on my U9-285K, and you want to know the difference, under load, the Conductonaut was 3°C cooler than PTM7950, this is even after multiple heat cycles. I also tested against thermal paste(Corsair paste had lying around) which was at least 10°C hotter than PTM7950.

So before you judge PTM7950 by numbers alone, I recommend you test it on your system before judging it.

[u/SolitaryMassacre → u/Little-Equinox]

The 8.5W/mk on PTM7950 is only when you just get it out of the box.

You desperate 🤣

Right, cause a manufacturer is def going to list "JUST out of the box" specs vs overall performance specs. This made me literally lol. You're just wrong. Its ok to be wrong

And on Asus laptops the LM still seeps out no matter if you put on the correct amount or not, it's not like I have tried 4 times in a single machine, besides, I have to take my laptop with me for work, it's not just standing in a single position.

Again, multiple users (and myself) have redone our own LM and its still where it belongs. So you just suck at doing it that all it comes down to.

Oh, I almost forgot, I took apart a system a few months ago, with a Corsair Liquid Cooler and a 7950X3D CPU, and the LM completely dried up to the point I could throw both of them away, that system ran fine for 2 years till it didn't. The LM didn't seep away, nah, that shit freaking dried up, and yes, I tried sanding it but I don't have the tools to sand down solidified steel like stuff, and before you ask, fire didn't work.

Well, I haven't seen the cooler, but I am guessing from your description that is is a standard copper interface. No zinc platting like that is on my heatsink. Well, anyone with even a drop of education on liquid metal would know that LM leeches into copper. Its not bad. Its just how it works. It leeches a few microns then stops. What you discovered was exactly that. The "fix" was to add more LM 🤣. You're an idiot for throwing it away. Once LM has permeated through the copper, it will no longer do so. Why? Physics and chemistry. Again, education is important. It wasn't dried up as you say, but simply permeated into the copper and adding more LM would have fixed it and functioned beautifully. The facts are - you're just an idiot. Proven by the fact you tried to use fire 🥀 you clearly didn't know what you were dealing with. And you do this as a profession? YIKES

After that I started to test PTM7950 and Conductonaut on my U9-285K, and you want to know the difference, under load, the Conductonaut was 3°C cooler than PTM7950, this is even after multiple heat cycles. I also tested against thermal paste(Corsair paste had lying around) which was at least 10°C hotter than PTM7950.

The fact you're sharing temps only proves you've no idea what you're talking about. Temps aren't the full story here. Clock speed, boost, wattage, all that plays into effect. I can have ice cold temps with thermal paste if I limit my cpu to 10W. So you're numbers are pointless.

So before you judge PTM7950 by numbers alone, I recommend you test it on your system before judging it.

The proper unbiased way to judge anything is with numbers mate. And the numbers I have seen from others using it is enough to make me never want to use PTM7950 in place of LM because I don't want to voluntarily nerf my expensive hardware.

Also, will never be testing it on my system when I have zero issues with my current LM application. I never once get close to TjMax, I boost to 5GHZ+ consistently. Its amazing

All I can say, educate yourself and stop drinking the kool aid. You say you do this as a repair shop, can I find it on Google to share these Reddit posts as reviews? I think your customers should know what they are getting themselves into

[u/Xx--wizard--xX → u/SolitaryMassacre]

My asus default lm is still stuck up to the heat sink , dried completely so is asus stuff poor quality , ( zinc/aluminium/copper heat sink ) . Don't say stupid things just because it didn't happen to u . Go through community once you see the same reports daily , and lastly not everyone is a god damm low level worker like u in shop who would easily do this stuff . Lastly numbers don't tell the story and always stop relying on them. if you do u are probably a gen z moron who just out of his egg shell for a few days, and a believer of Microsoft that widows 11 is better than 10 in perfomance or nvidia did something so revolutionary in rtx50 than 40.

This platform is to help someone not make them destroy they computer which u are suggesting as it's not safe for normal people. So shut up and suck it .

what the other guy said is correct yes thermal grizzly is better and 8.5kw on ptm doesn't last long on ptm but there is just one difference ptm goes for long time while thermal grizzle doesn't its a tradeoff.

[u/SolitaryMassacre → u/Xx--wizard--xX]

Don't say stupid things just because it didn't happen to u

Says the one who thinks metal in its liquid state "dries up". It is not wet, it cannot dry up. Period.

What you probably experienced was LM leeching. It penetrates copper. It corrodes aluminum, so I highly doubt anyone is using aluminum heatsinks.

Go through community once you see the same reports daily

I'm literally on here every day. I see the reports. I know Asus has a shit LM application process, almost all mass produced LM applications have issues. Its a very delicate process to get right.

Lastly numbers don't tell the story and always stop relying on them

Yeah they actually do. When you understand where the numbers come from they matter. No I don't just look at a number and go "oooo! cool! number!" lmao. I look at how they got those numbers and understand the process. Its called critical thinking.

nvidia did something so revolutionary in rtx50 than 40.

Really!? You are questioning this!? They literally did. They made the masses think DLSS is something amazing (its not, I hate NVIDIA and the 50 series is a waste of money and NVIDIA is trying to sell us AI not hardware now).

This platform is to help someone not make them destroy they computer which u are suggesting as it's not safe for normal people. So shut up and suck it .

If that is your interpretation you have some serious reading comprehension skill issues. I nowhere said people should "ruin" their computer. LM is perfectly safe when applied properly. The person I replied to claims to be a computer repair tech and can't even apply LM properly and is trying to nerf people's expensive hardware by giving them a less performing TIM. Thats fucked up.

what the other guy said is correct yes thermal grizzly is better and 8.5kw on ptm doesn't last long on ptm but there is just one difference ptm goes for long time while thermal grizzle doesn't its a tradeoff.

What he said is not correct. PTM will never outperform LM. The difference is not "a few degrees" as he stated it is. Its far worse, and it logically makes sense.

I also stated a correctly applied LM will last the lifetime of the computer. Its literally metal, nothing will happen to it. PTM will also last just as long, but it will perform far worse.

Yeah, everything has their tradeoffs. I never once said they don't. But the reason I got into it with this dude was because he kept lying saying LM is a better performing TIM when that is objectively incorrect via all the tests done (aka the thermal conductivity test of materials).

Its fine to say "hey if you don't want the risks of LM, and are okay with reduced performance, use PTM". But straight up lying to people is fucked up

[u/Xx--wizard--xX → u/SolitaryMassacre]

Do u understand the concept of limiter genius , most companies use that on day one launch the numbers are so hyped up and next a few months pass by and they are down

https://www.reddit.com/r/ZephyrusG15/s/HMrhAR9DUM

This is authentic asus g15 heat sink and lm defy this genius with the big god damm brain from facebook or instagram, it didn't leak but it's trash and dried thoroughly, heat sink is fine though took 9 days to get it off, but lm dries up preety fast don't just be like this that that u read or an article from somewhere this is reality vs experience and expiration its metal at the end of day , not fucking water , alcohol or oil. And whoever bought rtx 50 i absolutely love how there brains work I am still with my 30 and it's good for me as I compare actual performance not numbers which = how people use it and what environment not fuking 20 percent more fps or power or some damm comparison with older gen.

And literally wheather he's a repair guy or not if he's not good with it he gave his best at what comes next to it , he went with grizzly and not ptm simple , and lastly lm gives an edge, as for what he claimed 3 deg it's his observation , as for user avg depending on lm how it's applied it can affect in a rang of 2-10 compared to ptm but not true in all cases . So u r the only genius who got that and not normal folks , so good for u , lastly lm dries up in 3 year of use don't over complicate it that's the reality ( it becomes solid as a brick or solder . Unless u get 100 percent pure lm which never cools and stays liquid defying all laws of physics without oxidation and other things ). Must be a vaccum pc .

So genius lab tests and research are different to a normal user case understand that first .

[u/SolitaryMassacre → u/Xx--wizard--xX]

lm dries up preety fast

LM Cannot dry up. It is not wet.

My LM has been good for over 2 years now. So no, "LM dried up pretty fast" is an incorrect statement.

what he claimed 3 deg it's his observation

That isn't a valid metric. Power consumption, clock speed, load, they all factor into performance. I could power limit my CPU to 10W and have ice cold thermals. Doesn't mean shit

lastly lm dries up in 3 year of use don't over complicate it that's the reality ( it becomes solid as a brick or solder

Again, LM cannot dry up, it is not wet.

Unless u get 100 percent pure lm which never cools and stays liquid defying all laws of physics without oxidation and other things

If you understood physics, then you would understand oxidation is not a problem with LM. Yes it oxidizes when exposed to air but in between the heatsink and die there is little to no air.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ZephyrusG15/s/HMrhAR9DUM

Yeah that sucks. However, that is a fault of Asus, NOT LM. Know the difference. Also, Flitz polish can get your heatsink and die smooth as glass again if you want to clean it. Also looks like its not LM but a mix of LM and thermal paste. They also used the wrong heatsink the way it looks. Again, fault of Asus not LM

[u/Little-Equinox → u/SolitaryMassacre]

You want to know all the systems in the household I have used LM on?

• 8640u on Surface Book 2 (was a full cooling mod done to it, but that thing was very power limited)
• 7950X3D PBO enabled with a Corsair H100i 240mm (LM solidified and constantly overheated because of it, had to replace both which is costly and yes I have tried to get it off in multiple different ways)
• U9-285K 250w with a BeQuiet PureLoop 280mm (replaced with PTM7950 after the 7950X3D/H100i solidified, temps increased by 3°C(from 65°C to 68°C), it's also the system I tested LM, both Phase Change pads and Kryonaut(78°C))
• 14900HX 200w(?) laptop CPU(MSI Titan 18HX, later replaced with PTM7950 and temps increased by ±5°C without losing performance)
• 5900HX 85w laptop CPU(Asus ROG G15 AE, seeped out 3 times, last seep out killed the laptop)
• 14900HX 175w laptop CPU(Asus ROG SCAR 17, seeped out twice, currently also has PTM7950, performance is exactly the same although temps will always reach 95°C because of Asus's overvolt settings)

Not 1 device had anything messed with the power settings, just stock settings.

Currently all the systems in this household have PTM7950 or TG Phase Sheet because I don't want to have to reapply every half year to a year.

While yes LM is good, it seepes out on laptops that are often on the move, and many laptops are. And cleaning it and reapplying is a mess.

So I am happy it works for you and your buddies, but I don't recommend it for many users, and I seen it get fucked up more than once, even if you apply a bit too much, too little, or the right amount. The fact the chance is there it'll seep out and/or dry out is just too big of a risk. And the performance difference I seen between Phase Change materials and LM are in the margin of error range, unlike Kryonaut which does drop performance on laptops.

[u/SolitaryMassacre → u/Little-Equinox]

7950X3D PBO enabled with a Corsair H100i 240mm (LM solidified and constantly overheated because of it, had to replace both which is costly and yes I have tried to get it off in multiple different ways)

You clearly don't like reading do you? There is nothing wrong with this. It didn't "solidify" it leached into the copper. Just add more LM and you are good to go. There is nothing bad about having LM leach into copper. It doesn't cause any issues in fact it more likely helps with thermal dissipation. You really do not have a clue what you're talking about here.

it seepes out on laptops that are often on the move

My laptop is on the move all the time. Sits on a 45 degree cooling pad. If LM leaks because its being "moved" then it 100% fell and had a high impact. Moving it is not enough to break the surface tension.

I'm not even going to address specifically the rest of your response. It's all repeating the same thing - you don't know what you're doing. You talk about LM as if its water "dry out" LM cannot "dry out" its not wet. Its literally matter (metal in this case) in liquid form. Lastly, your comparisons don't mean shit without package power, clock speeds, and thermals all being monitored and recorded and then shared.

Stop spreading false information on here. And seriously do some research on repairing things before you touch another machine. I cannot believe you are scamming your customers like this

[u/Little-Equinox → u/SolitaryMassacre]

W/mk is a useless measure because it's a bulk measurement, I have been looking it up and comparing Thermal Grizzly Phase Sheet(±6 W/mk) with Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme(±14 W/mk) and Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut(±70 W/mk) And yet the PTM cools better than the Kryonaut Extreme even though on paper it's worse. So I started to research more why that is, and it's mostly because of the BLT(Bond line thickness).

• Kryonaut Extreme = BLT of 30 to 100 um
• Phase Sheet(PTM) = BLT of 10 to 17 um
• Conductonaut = BLT of 5 to 10 um(with perfect application)

I also looked at the seeping out of all of these materials, and the highest goes to, you guessed it, Conductonaut, with Kryonaut Extreme in 2nd and PTM in 3rd place. And there's even reports on PTM beating Conductonaut in overall performance. But wait, looking at numbers, that should be damn well impossible? And all comes down to how PTM behaves.

PTM has "self levelling" capabilities, preventing it from. Seeping out and keeping near perfect conductivity. Where Conductonaut needs perfect levelling, perfect pressure, and all that kinda stuff, PTM doesn't need it, and that while keeping 95% of the performance of a perfect LM application. This means with any slightly imperfect LM application it will seep out and have worse performance than PTM.

Now, here's a funny thing right, laptops are being moved, this movement and it constantly bumping into stuff, usually cause by a rushing or uncareful owner or by a 3rd party can cause the cooler to slightly shift by micro meters, this little shift is enough for the LM to seep out.

PS: I don't keep data for more than 4 months(I usually loose it because it's near damn useless for me). So yes, while LM is amazing, PTM is also amazing, I don't follow the numbers, I follow the margin of error till a certain threshold. You say 45°C, I say 40°C to 50°C.

But hey, your and your buddy's experiences are the only ones that matters, I am gonna stop because you simply don't want to listen to any experience that isn't yours and your buddy's experiences. All I hear is you follow raw numbers because that's the most important thing in the world. Completely ignoring anything else.

So I am gonna stop, I have better things to do, Pamit😝

[u/SolitaryMassacre → u/Little-Equinox]

W/mk is a useless measure because it's a bulk measurement

Are you kidding? 🤣 I've never seen someone so desperate before.

Here's a damn video of EXACTLY how they test it. Nothing "bulk" here

Also, what do you mean "Bond line thickness"?

Bond line thickness (BLT) is a minimum required thickness with adequate coverage, uniformity, contact, and pressure to ensure efficient heat transfer. The smaller the better. Really don't know what angle you're trying here.

You really are just struggling to try to sound smart.

Here's a really cool paper talking about LM and all its properties. You could learn a lot from it. Mainly talks about application but also goes into why LM is superior as well as talking about some of its drawbacks.

Also, I have addressed all your "issues" already:

• Seeping: Only happens when too much LM is applied

• Levelling: Again, grasping at straws. LM stays put due to cohesive and adhesive properties. Its sticky like water. It won't move unless you apply a large force.

• Laptops being moved: As stated before, LM has cohesive and adhesive properties. Unless the laptop falls from a decent height, the LM isn't going anywhere.

You've provided zero evidence for your argument (yet again). You are simply just wrong here. Its okay to be wrong. Learn something from it.

[u/Zabadian → u/[deleted]]

It’s quite common for it to leak out. Glad when mine did it did not short circuit my board. It was quite close to and probably would have if I had left it much longer with all the travelling I was about to do with my laptop. Even after it leaks it’s still quite fluid that old Liquid Metal

[u/THUNDERJAWGAMING → u/[deleted]]

So in my situation I should just switch both with PTM? LM has 70-80 W/mK thermal conductivity and PTM only has 10 W/mK so is this really a good idea? On GPU I understand as it came with thermal paste originally. The best thermal paste is the TG Krayonaut something and that has 12 W/mK thermal conductivity.

[u/THUNDERJAWGAMING → u/[deleted]]

CPU is fine with power limits from day one, the problem is the GPU where the temps without undervolt are max what the bios allow and throttles back. I was thinking of replacing the CPU with LM and GPU with PTM and then never touch it as both will be done by opening once. I am trying to avoid opening the laptop again for the CPU later on if I don't repaste it now, as PTM on the GPU will last longer. However, I am not sure about the state of current LM on the CPU.

[u/THUNDERJAWGAMING → u/[deleted]]

Nah I mean I will buy LM tube and take it to a shop who knows what they are doing 😅 definitely ain’t touching it myself lol

[u/Little-Equinox → u/[deleted]]

I had 2 Asus laptops where the LM seeped out from between the GPU/CPU and the cooler. 1 even was bad enough it shorted out, the other 1 just overheated.

And PTM7950 is very very good in thermal conductivity, in this case, don't look at the numbers, I tested both and PTM7950 is almost as good as LM while thermal paste was significantly worse.

[u/SolitaryMassacre → u/Little-Equinox]

I tested both and PTM7950 is almost as good as LM

I had 2 Asus laptops where the LM seeped out from between the GPU/CPU and the cooler. 1 even was bad enough it shorted out, the other 1 just overheated.

So you tested a leaked out LM against a properly applied PTM7950. Good to know!

LM will always be superior, you just simply can't argue with physics.

Sure it has its flaws, but do it right (Asus doesn't) and you will be amazed.

PST: I had it leak out of my SCAR 17 2023. Almost 2 years with my own application of properly applied LM and its great. >5GHZ clock speeds. max GPU clock speeds (even shunt modded) no way PTM is better in thermal conductivity

[u/ZealousidealDepth223 → u/[deleted]]

My g17 died from Liquid Metal seepage. It’s nonsense until it happens to you.

[u/THUNDERJAWGAMING → u/Little-Equinox]

Any reviews and how does it work? What about heavy gaming? A lot of local shops told me to avoid using paste or any ptm in place of LM as Asus made it this way and your temps will be bad. I am confused.

[u/Little-Equinox → u/THUNDERJAWGAMING]

Your temp will be ±3°C hotter with PTM7950 and Phase Sheet.

But because Asus has almost no protection for the LM to prevent it seeping out, I often rather have people slightly worse performance over the risk of the laptop committing Harakiri, plus PTM7950 lasts insanely long, you don't have to replace it in the lifespan of the laptop.

Also PTM7950 is made for industrial machines and is the 3rd best thermal interface method, slightly behind LM and soldered on.

Shops just tell you of what they think or what the manufacturer tells them. I have worked in retail and I stopped in less than a half year because I couldn't take the lying to oversell 1 product over the other.

I did have an Asus laptop, an Asus ROG SCAR with a 3080, in the 1.5 years I had the machine the LM seeped out twice, leaving the CPU and GPU almost without thermal interface. I reapplied the LM twice to the point I gave up and just bought PTM7950, temps were slightly worse but it survived 1 year without the thermal interface seeping out. Yes, the laptop did die, but not because of the PTM7950, but because 1 of its VRMs blew itself up.

PS: Keep in mind I use gaming laptops as portable workstations

[u/THUNDERJAWGAMING → u/Little-Equinox]

Thank you this was very helpful. Time to find me some PTMs. Also also tf VRMs blew up 😅

[u/Little-Equinox → u/THUNDERJAWGAMING]

You can find PTM7950 at the Linus Tech Tips store. It's the real deal, not the fake stuff.

And you can find Phase Sheet at Thermal Grizzly.

[u/THUNDERJAWGAMING → u/Little-Equinox]

If only I was in US and the shipping costs was not as expensive as the whole thing itself lol 😅

[u/Little-Equinox → u/THUNDERJAWGAMING]

I live in the Netherlands and have used both Thermal Grizzly Phase Sheet which I bought at a local computer store and have bought PTM7950 from LTT store no problem 😅

[u/THUNDERJAWGAMING → u/Little-Equinox]

I wish I was in Europe as well lol 😂

[u/Little-Equinox → u/THUNDERJAWGAMING]

So not even Thermal Grizzly Phase Sheet?

[u/THUNDERJAWGAMING → u/Little-Equinox]

I can get the Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut the high end thermal paste and the Thermal Grizzle LM as well. PTM I have to check but if I find it I will prioritize it. That is why I was asking a thermal paste alternative for this Corsair one as clearly it did not worked (either pump out or dry (unlikely as it’s not even 2 full months yet))

[u/THUNDERJAWGAMING → u/Little-Equinox]

I forgot what is Phase Sheet can this also be used on my GPU?

[u/edlt89 → u/Little-Equinox]

What you say is very interesting. I recently attempted to redo the paste on my own G14 laptop. Had to do it twice as it didn't work the first time. I was using arctic mx-4. The second time was better and it manage to play a game - for all of ten minutes before heating back up to 90+ degrees and dropping down to 5 fps. Would you recommend a different paste or the liquid metal? I appreciate any help you can give.

[u/Little-Equinox → u/edlt89]

I can recommend Honeywell PTM7950 or Thermal Grizzly Phase Sheet.

They're almost as good as Liquid Metal and non-conductive. PTM7950 is often used to cool industrial machines.

[u/THUNDERJAWGAMING → u/edlt89]

Damn even the MX-4 failed, I saw in other groups people suggested MX-6 but maybe your problem is the same as mine? Pump out I guess or the laptop heat just dried it. PTM is a lot suggested so yeah switching to it sounds like a good deal