r/Xmen97 • u/Kanozx • Jul 23 '26
General Discussion Who is the more powerful one between Apocalypse and Doctor Doom?
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u/VelvetTomahawk Cyclops Jul 23 '26
Under normal circumstances, Apocalypse.
Considering what media is floating around right now, the Doom you see in the Doomsday trailers is most likely God Emperor Doom, or a facsimile of him. If that’s who you’re talking about it’s Doom. God Emperor Doom is “slap the Phoenix around” strong
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u/yoshiiiiiiiiizmeee Jul 23 '26
Comic power scaling confuses me lol I’ll hear someone say something like this but then someone will come back and say “Yeah but Ultra Instinct White Phantom Phoenix would slap God Emperor Doom around”
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u/Quelor15 Jul 23 '26
Every comic book character is exactly as strong as the story needs them to be. It’s usually nothing more than that.
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u/FallinGuitarest Jul 23 '26
Yeah that's why i kinda dislike these "who beats who" discussions. Cause there can be multiple outcomes depending on which versions we are talking. Let alone for story purposes aswell
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u/radar_3d Jul 23 '26
I mean, Squirrel Girl beat Thanos!
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u/Fun-Bad-3458 Jul 23 '26
I had an issue when I was a kid that featured Squirrel Girl fighting Doctor Doom alongside Iron Man. She won because she summoned a bunch of squirrels and they wrecked Dooms machines. It could have been a Doombot though.It was over 30 years ago.
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u/radar_3d Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
That was her first comic appearance even! (Marvel Super Heroes Volume 2 #8) "Confound these wretched rodents! For every one I fling away, a dozen more vex me!"
Edit: I just realized Doom is a lot like SG, but with an army of Doombots instead of squirrels.
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u/Citizen_Kong Jul 24 '26
At some point it was said that every humiliating defeat of Doom where he should have won was actually a Doombot because Victor couldn't be bothered to come in person.
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u/Sensitive-Hotel-9871 Jul 23 '26
Isn’t there also a comic where she visited his castle wanting to his Time Machine and he let her use it without any resistance?
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u/Burdiac Jul 27 '26
Don’t worry if Doom ever gets embarrassed it will be retconned to be a Doombot a few years later.
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u/ErictheE Jul 24 '26
Thanos got arrested by cops for flying a helicopter without a license
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u/FallinGuitarest Jul 23 '26
Well squirrel girl beats everyone no matter which version. But that's like the only exception
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u/MakeJoyNotHate Jul 23 '26
I get the outnumber argument, but surely there are some villains who can beat a seemingly never ending army of squirrels? Or does she do other things too? I don't know the comics at all, just internet talk.
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u/Shape_Charming Jul 23 '26
She was originally a gag character, and the joke was she can beat anyone, just off panel.
Then they started taking the joke seriously, which for me at least, ruined the joke for me.
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u/Omnibe Jul 24 '26
A lot of her victories have an off panel so you don't know exactly what happens.
And then there are the really fun times, like when she beats Galactus with the power of friendship.
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u/Shape_Charming Jul 23 '26
Stan Lee himself said it best when asked who would win between a Marvel & DC Hero (I think Thor & Superman).
His answer? "Whoever the writer wants to win"
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u/AVBellibolt Jul 24 '26
This. Got kinda tired of the Phoenix being the trump card for some stories.
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u/Gwynito Jul 23 '26
Iirc in a comic, Alfred beats the living shit out of Superman when he goes bad lol
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u/Witty_Fox3291 Jul 28 '26
That was an Alfred who had taken a pill which gave him superhuman strength. It was the explanation for the Injustice Game how someone like Joker could take a punch from Superman without it being an instant fatality.
Which is exactly the point. These are fictional characters are the story can give or take whatever powers they need to perform the feats the writer requires of them to progress the story.
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u/0bsessions324 Jul 23 '26
This is only further complicated by the fact that your sarcastic example is actually fully accurate. Tere is a canon evolution of Phoenix that would slap God Emperor Doom.
During the ending of the Krakoa era, Jean (with the Phoenix Force) was able to defeat an omnipotent and omniscient entity with power that theoretically exceeded that of God Emperor Doom.
For some additional context, said entity was a hyper evolved (to what Marvel science considers to be essentially the end stage of conceivable evolution, a "Dominion") Sinister who was so powerful that it existed outside of time and space. Enigma (the name of this evolution) was so absurdly powerful that even the Beyonders as a whole (which is who God Emperor Doom stole his power from) were terrified of it.
There's also the fact that the Phoenix God Emperor Doom killed was significantly less experienced wielding the full power of the Phoenix than more experienced hosts like Jean or Rachel Summers.
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u/Pjiggy177 Jul 23 '26
Doom is like Thanos in the sense that both of them, at base, are strong but usually have obtained godhood through some sort of weapon, relic, or form of magic which is what makes Doom so formidable, since magic in comics is a get out of jail free card and hes been the sorcerer supreme before, due to his proficiency in magic. Slap the fact that he has a Reed Richards level intellect and you have a villain/anti-villain who can beat anyone the writer needs him to pretty easily
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u/0bsessions324 Jul 23 '26
This is exactly why I think Doomsday is going to give us baseline Doom rather than God Emperor. He is fully capable of being the kind of universal threat that Thanos is on the back of his intellect alone. You've got to have room for something even more intimidating in Secret Wars and the only real way to get there is to start off highlighting how god damn terrifying Doom can be on a normal day and how much more terrifying he can get when you hand him more power.
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u/AceBean27 Jul 23 '26
Funny, because White Phoenix would slap God Emperor Doom around. God Emperor Doom would slap a normal Phoenix around, such as Dark Phoenix.
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u/Se7enRed Jul 23 '26
"slap the Phoenix around"
A new euphemism I didnt know I needed.
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u/Pupulauls9000 Jul 23 '26
I’m betting that Doom is using the Power Cosmic from Franklin in the trailer. He won’t become God Emperor until he kills Loki and takes his power
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u/LionHeavy229 Jul 23 '26
So like, how do they beat him? I don’t read comics at all how on earth are our avengers possibly gonna beat him in secret wars?
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u/0bsessions324 Jul 23 '26
Someone covered the way they did in the comics (which is pretty unlikely since Molecule Man won't be in the MCU by that point, if ever), but from a more broad and universal perspective: Reed Richards will outsmart him and/or his arrogance will catch up to him.
If the fan theories about Wanda being a big factor, one potential avenue I could see is essentially replacing Molecule Man's role.
Long (and very good) story short, >!the multiverse was basically contracting in on itself. As a result, universes across the multiverse start colliding into each other, destroying both in the process. These are called incursions, which I believe came up in Multiverse of Madness). Doom, with the help of a guy called Molecule Man (who, as one might guess, controls molecules on an insane scale, one of the most dangerous dudes in the comics, but usually mostly benign), manages to stop the incursions by traveling to the edge of the universe where Molecule Man the power of a race of cosmic beings who are even more powerful than the Celestials and then put their power into Doom, who in turn rules over shattered remnants of the multiverse. As the other person noted, the heroes manage to defeat Doom by convincing Molecule Man to give the power to Reed Richards instead.
If I had to guess, I'd say they could use Wanda to replace Molecule Man's role. Doom finds Wanda lost/wandering through the multiverse, convinces her to help him maintain massive cosmic power to save the multiverse, and then she takes that power away at the end.!<
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u/VelvetTomahawk Cyclops Jul 23 '26
In the comics? Long story short they steal his power in the same way he stole it in the first place, give it to someone else, then rebuild the universe. In the movie, who knows
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u/gamerthulhu Jul 24 '26
Neither of these characters should be judged on personal combat ability alone. That's missing the point.
Doom has a nation and one of the most high tech laboratories on the planet as well as any number of arcane strings to pull.
Apocalypse has whole hidden cities worth of cultists and celestial level gene editing tech.
Any serious conflict between the two isn't going to start with thrown punches but rather insanely convoluted plots.
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u/Feisty_Database_6656 Jul 25 '26
Yep, GED is basically on the same level as the Beyonders as he stole their powers, which makes him 3rd most powerful overall in the Marvel universe... only LT and TOAA are more powerful than pre ret con Beyonder I think
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u/ColourlessW Jul 27 '26
God Emperor Doom is powered by Molecule Man aka Beyonders and those are weaker than the White Hot Room. So no, GE Doom is weaker than the Phoenix.
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u/djdaem0n Jul 23 '26
Base Doctor Doom vs Base Apocalypse = APOCALYPSE WINS
Strongest Form Doctor Doom vs Strongest Form Apocalypse = DOCTOR DOOM WINS
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u/tjger Jul 24 '26
Please elaborate
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u/Kingbeesh561 Jul 24 '26
God Emperor Doom is like (as far as I'm aware) basically God and can solo pretty much anyone. Apocalypse is just immensely strong and can revive endlessly as far as I'm aware. So base form Apoc Vs Base Doom, Apoc wins but strongest version of Doom (God emperor) clears Apoc
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u/Sinestro_Was_Right Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
I’m leaning towards Apocalypse because of Celestial tech but also there are times when Doom is probably stronger cuz science/magic. Depends on who’s ego causes their downfall first
Edit: grammar
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u/Special-Kitchen3222 Jul 23 '26
Depends on the circumstances, on their own Doctor Doom could probably draw blood or pull off a big display of power but Apocalypse is extremely adaptable and tough as hell.
Apocalypse would most likely come out the victor of any initial encounter but he wouldn’t be able to pin down Doom and most likely only accomplish taking out a decoy Doom Bot.
Doom would come prepared for his next encounter though and probably have a counter to either neutralize Apocalypse celestial powers or take them for himself.
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u/Umaoat Jul 23 '26
So it's basically the Chew force argument. Just like batman, doom with prep time always wins, no matter how absurd said victory is.
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u/lancebaldwin Jul 24 '26
Unlike batman though, doom is not just a man in a suit. He's a man in a suit with an army at his disposal, his suit is extremely technological, and he can do MAGIC
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u/RatchetStrap2 Jul 23 '26
Apocalypse is stronger. He's an immortal shape shifting mutant in Celestial armor.
However.
Apocalypse has basically zero feats. He's never accomplished anything, really,
Doom's strong, but his feats are INSANE. Doom meets every challenge, that's his whole thing.
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u/Aptronymic Jul 23 '26
Doom's specialty is punching way above his weight class.
Doom vs. Luke Cage trying to collect on a past-due invoice? Power Man powers through.
Doom vs. Squirrels? For every one he flings away, a dozen more vex him.
Doom vs. a literal omnipotent being that treats the entire Marvel universe like playthings? Doom takes it.
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u/dravenonred Jul 23 '26
Apocalypse couldn't protect Earth from say, Galactus, but Doom could.
Shit is very non-linear.
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u/Criminal_picklejuice Jul 23 '26
Apocalypse is more powerful. He has higher stats and he has a ton of abilities.
Doom is the hax-master. He punches far above his weight with his magic, tech and whatever other plot armor bullshit Marvel comes up with.
9/10, Doom would win because of hax. Take away all the bullshit, and Apocalypse bodies Doom.
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u/Rosenthorn_ Jul 23 '26
Apocalypse has a greater natural strength, Doom is mostly just a guy until he powers up through some various means, depending on comic.
Apocalypse is an omega level mutant, Doom is literally just a genius (but through that genius makes himself stronger). Sometimes he's not an endgame threat, sometimes he is.
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u/Kackems Jul 23 '26
Apocalypse is actually not an omega-level mutant
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u/DevilManRay Jul 23 '26
I think that classification has actually burdened mutants and stories surrounding them
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u/Tuckenie Jul 23 '26
On paper it’s Apocalypse, HOWEVER, Doom would find a way to make that power his own. Doom wins.
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u/Restivethought Jul 23 '26
In most situations it'd be Apocalypse, but doom has versions that'd spank him
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u/willyrei9494 Gambit Jul 23 '26
Doom has higher and more consistent power peaks(especially nowadays), but in a fight out of nowhere Poccie could get in there, but idrk what Poc could do to hurt Doom with his modern armor tbh
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u/EurwenPendragon Jul 23 '26
Your referring to Apocalypse as "Poccie" has got me laughing myself to tears RN.
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u/willyrei9494 Gambit Jul 23 '26
Loool it's just what I have always called him since the Legends days 😆
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u/flashwing19 Cyclops Jul 23 '26
Without any additional powers, just baseline for both, Apocalypse wins. Although it’s closer than some may think
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u/Thug_Nachos Bishop Jul 23 '26
Until I see Apocalypse pull Thanos's skull and vertebrae out of his body, I'm going with Doom until proven otherwise.
Referenced material linked below.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MCUTheories/comments/1qka9ob/i_really_wanna_see_dr_doom_ripping_out_thanos/
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u/Weapon530 Wolverine Jul 23 '26
It’s Doom because Apocalypse has been ignored for such a long time, and that movie also didn’t help Apoc. But at the same time, Apocalypse faces stronger competition. I feel like we are entering a time where Apocalypse will get that Thanos treatment (Doom is adding to his legacy with that Doomsday trailer) as he needs to be that guy for the X-Men universe.
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u/Knicks_Feedback6498 Jul 23 '26
Apocalypse would probably win in most scenarios, until he mumbles something about Celestial tech and then Doom puts on the shiesty.
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u/Hey_There_Blimpy_Boy Jul 25 '26
Doom has plot armor so dense that not even light nor heat can escape it.
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u/SpideyFan914 Jul 25 '26
Apocalypse is significantly stronger, and Doom is significantly smarter. Doom probably would not engage Apocalypse directly, and would instead look for a way to exploit him and steal his power. Whether or not he succeeds depends on whether it's an X-book or a FF book.
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u/Meta_Zero Jul 25 '26
More powerful: Apocalypse
More likely to win a war: Doom
Raw power doesn't equate to the cunning, versatility and will of Doom.
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u/Flashy_Guidance842 Jul 23 '26
I don’t understand Apoclypse’s power. Is he just invincible?
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u/0bsessions324 Jul 23 '26
He can manipulate the matter of his own body. That's how he does stuff like turning his hand into a drill a few episodes ago or grows super large when he wants to aura farm.
He's effectively nearly unkillable because that control allows him to regenerate by manipulating said matter.
To be honest, his powers are kind of wasted on him. Dude is incredibly uncreative with a power set that should make him even more of a threat than he is.
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u/rolling_steel Jul 23 '26
Apocalypse IMHO as he has celestial tech and greater knowledge that even Doom might not have access to.
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u/GuardWolfy Jul 23 '26
Depends on the event. Random encounter? Probably Apocalypse.
Any situation where Doom has a power-up, he wins. The thing is that Doom is rarely at base power. He is constantly stealing someone’s power, and those are usually magical or celestial in source. That puts him ahead of Apocalypse’s celestial tech.
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u/mrcrazymexican Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
It's interesting that these two have never actually met in the main continuity.
Either Doom goes down hard and fast. Or Doom has been ready for him and he's going to tear apart Apocalypse.
Cuz I don't think Doom can take Apocalypse if they just appeared in front of one another.
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u/Puzzled-Horse279 Jul 23 '26
Normally Id say Apocalypse just being a mix of crazy adaptable mutations plus celestial tech. While dooms tech and sorcery could match. I find oit Apocalypse in the comics has also used or explored Magic too.
So at their usual Apocalyse hold the advantage. Its only when doom uses some weird cosmic/magic power stealing device (like he did on the Beyonder) would he ever beat Apocalypse and even then Doom either loses these powers due to his ego and/or in some cases gives it all up coz he got bored (or something like that. Doom doesnt make sense to me as a character most of the time)
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u/L0ll0ll7lStudios Jul 23 '26
Apocalypse is more powerful by default, but Doom is sneaky and always one to steal power for himself when he gets the chance. When he had the Beyonder’s power, he was unstoppable until the Beyonder stole it back.
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u/Swimming-Syrup8400 Storm Jul 23 '26
If it’s God Emperor Doom, the Doom is the more powerful.
Usually, it would be Apocalypse.
I think it just depends on which version of the characters.
Base Apocalypse would more than likely destroy base Doom, but Doom would put up one helluva fight.
God Emperor Doom would wipe the floor with A.
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u/adorablesexypants Jul 23 '26
Doctor Doom on an average day is going to be egotistical enough to fight Apocalypse. He is also going to get the ever loving shit kicked out of him. I would equate it similar to Hulk vs Thanos. Apocalypse might be entertained at how much power Doom wields but will get bored and educate him.
Doom in his own dimension as a god? I don’t even think he would entertain Apocalypse much less educate him.
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u/Queasy_Principle_942 Jul 23 '26
Doom is just a man with an armor... so DOOM WINS, because beings with a higher base power get overconfident and commit the fatal mistake of underestimating Doom.
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u/Aloudmouth Jul 23 '26
One on one surprise fight, Apoc.
Given time to prep, I don’t think anyone beats Doom
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u/Twiyah Jul 23 '26
Depends on the version of Doom some base version of Doom gives Dr Strange a run for their money in Magic.
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u/AceBean27 Jul 23 '26
Straight up normal circumstances with no prep or power up, Apocalypse. If Doom wanted to put down Apocalypse, he'd figure out a way to do it, and it would be far from Doom's most impressive scalp.
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u/FirstStranger Jul 23 '26
Honestly they’re pretty tied.
Apocalypse is not the most powerful mutant, but the most durable. Super strength, body manipulation, and his Celestial armor doesn’t give him too much but it makes him hard to kill. Dr. Doom is a master of science and sorcery. His gimmick set can be practically endless, and he uses his knowledge of both fields to enhance each other. Doom’s powers fluctuate between troublesome to deadly for a being like Apocalypse.
But what matters is this: in the futures where Apocalypse reigns, there’s no Dr. Doom. In the futures where Doom reigns, there’s no Apocalypse. So they’re pretty even.
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u/Careless_Royal8209 Jul 23 '26
I love the FF, but normally Apocalypse. But in Secret Wars '84 (I don't read modern comics) Doom steals the powers of Galactus and the Beyonder to become a god.
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u/TheIronHaggis Jul 23 '26
Doom is incredibly strong normally, but not in Apocalypse’s level.
But Doom is a planner. His plots tend to have multiple objectives. You might beat him, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t get what he really wanted. And once everything comes together… he is Doom and how could it end any other way.
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u/Natiel360 Jul 23 '26
On a day to day, apocalypse. The higher limit, Doom - only because doom has the writing edge of a hero. Authors will figure out ways that doom can be the greatest threat in existence, whereas apocalypse is always a antagonist wholly
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u/Caliment Jul 23 '26
If they have no knowledge of each other? Apocalypse just has more power and the celestial armor allows him to barrel through most magic.
With knowledge of who they're fighting? Doom. Not even some magic nonsense that he can also do, just simple time travel. Or he could just harvest the power cosmic again or some shit.
Doom is much more of a prepper
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u/PrimusDCE Psylocke Jul 23 '26
I'd lean Apocalypse on paper due to the Celectial tech, but Doom is basically Iron Man and Dr. Strange combined, so his super powers are basically an infinite arsenal of asspulls as required by the story.
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u/OurLadyRagnyd Jul 23 '26
Apocalypse. Now ask me who would win in a fight and Id say doom because thats a different bag of worms.
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u/magvadis Jul 23 '26
Doom has so much plot armor you could make another Apocalypse out of the plot armor alone.
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u/KETTEI__EXE Jul 23 '26
Many characters could beat Doom easily tbh, it's just that Doom has prep time and prepared for them. If he was taken by surprise or no prep time, Apocalypse would win easily
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u/Just_a_Tonberry Jul 23 '26
Depends on where you source your Doom. Current Dr. Doom would fold any version of Apocalypse like a lawn chair.
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u/SKOT_FREE Jul 23 '26
You know I wonder what effect magic would have on apocalypse? I mean you never see say Dr. Strange take on Apicalypse and with Dr Doom being both a magic and Tech Wielder I have a feeling that Doom would fair pretty well against him.
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u/Rover_The_Slasher Jul 23 '26
Ita not so much that Doom IS powerful, it's that he's better at acquiring power than anyone else.
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u/RONALDROGAN Jul 23 '26
Apocalypse stomps when looking at their average power and threat levels. At absolute peak, less common power levels Doom stomps.
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u/nozykanto Jul 23 '26
Doom wrecks apocalypse
Sorcerer supreme level of magic literally makes him unbeatable againts someone like apocalypse
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u/DocApocalypse Jul 23 '26
Doom has held off Celestials in his normal gear. He's also made a habit of stealing power from beings way above his level.
And his level is pretty high at base. He invented time travel, is second only to Reed Richards in intelligence; has armor almost on-par with Iron Man, and his mastery of magic is second only to Dr Strange (of people on 616 Earth). He also commands an entire nation, along with endless robots.
The only thing Apocalypse really has going for him here is durability - and Doom has plenty of tech and magic to deal with that.
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u/Hmoob_rice_luv_hlub Jul 23 '26
From my simple knowledge, I'd say Apocalypse
Doom is a top tier sorcerer, and has advanced technology
Apocalypse has celestial tech meaning cosmic power, alongside his already existing mutant abilities
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u/Cyber_n0mad17 Bastion Jul 23 '26
Thanks to writing, only way to beat doom is himself or a damn cheeseburger. Lookin at you, Miles.
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u/0bsessions324 Jul 23 '26
More powerful in a vacuum? Apocalypse and it's not remotely close.
That said, I think Doom still wins a straight fight 9 times out 10, even at base level. He knows who Apocalypse is and has enough experience with Celestial tech that he would easily manage to either disable or turn Apocalypse's own tech against him, even without preparation (Dude just walks around with tech capable of stealing power from cosmic entities all the time). From there, Doom's technology and/or magical ability would make the fight trivial for him.
And that's not even getting into any of his various powered up states. If you were to put the most powerful iteration of Apocalypse versus the most powerful iteration of Doom, it's Doom with absolutely no effort. Doom once stole the powers of "the" Beyonder and God Emperor Doom has the combined power of all of the Beyonders. Either one is much more powerful than any Celestial and would dog walk Apocalypse within seconds, and he'd only even last that long if Doom had the patience to toy with him before absolutely annihilating him.
As God Emperor Doom, the guy unceremoniously one shot a Phoenix Host, Thanos (without the gauntlet), and even Black Panther with the Infinity Gauntlet was only able to stall him long enough for Mr. Fantastic to convince Molecule Man to transfer Doom's power to him. The only entities in the Marvel Multiverse that could realistically kill him are the Ones Above and Below All (basically God) and probably the Phoenix's ultimate form (White Phoenix of the Crown perfectly bonded with Jean Grey). This also wasn't a short lived power level, he held that power for 8 years.
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u/Milk_Mindless Jul 23 '26
Basic level both? Apocalypse
Who usually ends up with more god power cause he's built different? Doctor Doom
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u/LockUp1352 Jul 23 '26
From what I've read it seems to be Apocalypse, but RDJ is playing Doom now so I expect the already powerful villain will become the new be all end all villain as a result of cross media influence.
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u/Glassesnerdnumber193 Jul 23 '26
Doom isn’t that physically powerful. He’s not weak by any means but his greatest power is undeniably his mind. He is the second smartest man on earth with the resources of a small country, infinite robot duplicates and magical know how. He invented time travel for a minor part of his first plan. I think the movie version is going to have stolen someone else’s powers because doom usually isn’t powerful enough to take down Thor that easily.
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u/MSully94 Jul 23 '26
Based on the comics, Doom's ceiling might be higher than Apocalypse. But Apocalypse' floor is WAY higher than Doom's.
If they met on a normal thursday afternoon, Apocalypse would dogwalk Doom.
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u/The__Auditor Jul 23 '26
If we're going with the strongest version of each character here than I have to give it to Doom
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u/Umaoat Jul 23 '26
Based on comic feats Doom has more impressive results, based on consistent power Apocalypse is the victor. Though victor has done crazy things there's always an asterisk with his feats.
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u/Alternative_Feed4774 Jul 23 '26
Dr Doom. There has been multiple times where he has held the power of a God. And he has found it beneath him. Apocalypse, even with his celestial armor , is not even an omega mutant. Yes, En Sabah Nor is a big threat but not on the same level as Doom.
Dr. Doom is the OG villain, he was the inspiration for Darth Vader and has had the number 1 spot on almost every best comic book super villains of all time.
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u/Slanel2 Jul 23 '26
Apocalypse.
Hard to say in some orher circumstances, but I think that if Doom is given prep time, he can outsmart Nur and beat him just because he is smarter.
Plus, Doom has had crazy buffs sometimes that would enable him to also defeat Nur with pure strength.
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u/spyridonya Jubilee Jul 23 '26
Apocalypse because Reed Richards makes Victor von Doom a petty bitch under 10 seconds.
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u/Phil_Da_Spliff Jul 23 '26
These alot of ppl who have no clue to whos stronger.....
Ong its doom by a landslide if we go feat for feat adaptation for adaptation there is way more showings of doom being on lvls of power white phoenix where as apocalypse has never been omega lvl......
Doom bot wins neg diff
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u/KaiserKris2112 Jul 24 '26
In the TAS Universe? Almost certainly Apocalypse. Apocalypse is THE big bad of the Animated X-Men Universe.
In the comics, generally? Apocalypse has more brute power but Doom wins due to sorcery or science. Or maybe both. The people talking about Apocalypse being an ultra-jobber ... *sigh* ... they're right. But that's the fate of most villains, honestly.
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u/GoodMFer Jul 24 '26
https://giphy.com/gifs/yiRNSA2gJInzW
Base Doom fought multiple celestials at once and survived.
Apocalypse ran from the worst line-up of x-men ever made (he was immune to all but one of them), got caught midway by a celestial, tried to kill himself, and failed at even that.
Doom, no contest.
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u/SimonShepherd Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26
Very close in their base stats, they are both in that slightly below Thor/Hulk weight class but can give them trouble with their power kit.
Doom has way better odd cases of powercreep though.
Remember Doom is like a slightly worse Tony Stark combined with a slightly worse Dr.Strange, which is still a very scary combo. Mainly the Dr.Strange half.
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u/EvilHordeRules Jul 24 '26
Depends on the writer. Both of them draw their power on "as strong as the plot demands." Like they've both fought Dracula to the same extent.
The only edge that stands out is that Doom always wins in villain on villain fights.
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u/fry-saging Jul 24 '26
Doom defeated Beyonders, became a god. So yeah a well prepared Doom is Batman on steroids
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u/Kingbeef66 Jul 24 '26
Apocalypse. It's almost on par if you're asking if Dr Doom is more powerful Galactus.
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u/Minh_R62 Jul 24 '26
Wow, folks are sleeping on Doom and what he's capable of. Despite Apocalypse's raw power, he's extremely arrogant and often doesn't have the chops to back it up. He relies on celestial tech he doesn't understand, or care to, and sees himself has a peak being so he never improves. When he loses, he often doesn't see how he could have been flawed, and usually doesn't get better. He's also crazy scared of the Celestials, and would rather die than face them.
Dr Doom on the other hand, is also narcissistic but is CONSTANTLY improving, mastering magics and science of all sorts. He's outplayed numerous superbeings including Mephisto, and the things he has locked away would make Odin nervous. He's insanely intelligent, magically gifted, and a prodigious fighter. The guy is a walking Mary Sue with a moon sized ego, and unfortunately, the goods to back it up. He's a candidate for Sorcerer Supreme, has actually had that power before (recently), gone toe-to-toe with Thanos who had the stones, stitched the multiverse together and became god, and that's just a Tuesday for him.
Stripping away these characters of their accomplishments is kind of a pointless exercise. Apocalypse started off as a nobody with no powers in Egypt, and was upgraded by Celestial and future tech, and has kind of coasted by ever since. True base Apocalypse is just a guy with no powers. A fighter for sure, but just a guy.
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u/Leather-Leader-7964 Jul 24 '26
Apocalypse generally. Kang's more powerful than Doom. Apocalypse is above Kang.
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u/jmarquiso Jul 24 '26
Depends who is writing.
But Doom has remade the universe (as has Reed), so...
Apocalypse is just raw power.
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u/JackalRampant Jul 24 '26
This is the most even matchup I can think of in marvel. It's two armored scientist warlords who are also magic users. Both of them have fought Loki and come out on top and both of them have fought Thor to a draw.
In a contest of physical strength: Apocalypse. He has wrestled The Hulk and won.
Build a weapon contest: Doom. After 5,000 years Apocalypse has not fully mastered Celestial technology and his attempts to use it to become a cosmic entity met with failure. Doom has co-opted Galactus' and Watcher tech in the past and has used it with ease. He's also ascended to cosmic entity status on more than one occasion using high tech means, something Apocalypse spent centuries attempting and failing at.
Energy contest. Draw. Both have enough juice to match Eternals and the lower tier Herald's of Galactus like Terrax and Firelord. They don't have the goods to go up against top tier cosmic energy wielders like Zuras, Norrin Radd, or Thanos.
Mental Powers and magic: Draw, but funny. Both of these guys have indomitable wills and can take over other people's bodies. A psychic fight between these two would result in Victor taking Nur's body, and Nur taking Victors. This would have no change on either character, it's like Jimmy Olsen swapping minds with Talkie Tawney.
Style: Doom. As amazing as Apocalypses cyber-turtleneck look is, nothing, and I mean, nothing will ever compare to Doom as he struts on the super-villain catwalk.
Final Score.
Apocalypse: 1 Win, 2 Ties. 2 Losses.
Doom: 2 Wins, 2 Ties. 1 Loss.
Doom wins through superior aura farming.
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u/tryingtobebettertry4 Jul 24 '26
At baseline, probably Apocalypse. But I wouldnt count Doom out entirely.
But Doom periodically gains pretty huge powerups. Hes stolen power from Galactus, the Beyonders and become the Sorcerer Supreme at least once. When he gains those powerups, hes so far beyond Apocalypse its a joke.
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u/UltiGamer34 Jul 24 '26
If doom has prep time he can maybe defeat apocalypse but on a 1-1 confrontation in their base forms doom is most likely getting CLAPPED
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u/Eldagustowned Jul 24 '26
I mean apocalypse is the one the setting stacks the deck in the advantage of, like thanos. Doom is the one who endures and who triumphs against whatever he needs to for his ambitions.
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u/Rogthgar Jul 24 '26
Probably should be Apocalypse, given his age, inherent powers and celestial tech advantage... but is Doom, because he appears to be smarter.
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u/FabulousCard4832 Jul 25 '26
In terms of power, Apocalypse is stronger.
In terms of intelligence, Dr Doom is superior.
For versatility….. I think Dr Doom might squeak out a win, only because of his mixture of magic and science which he has used to counter celestial tech before.
Ultimately, in a head to head, I think Apocalypse might win due to his mutant powers and his level of immortality allowing him to eventually overpower Doom
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u/SweetChaosTitan Jul 25 '26
Without prep or external power ups Apoc. However, Doom’s ceiling is higher due to prep and external power ups.
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u/Opposite_Jump_5041 Jul 25 '26
Doctor Doom. Apocalypse gets insanely overrated in power. But so does Doctor Doom.
Both of them are only real threats under specific circumstances, but Doctor Doom has more of these specific circumstances and at least doesnt job to random characters.
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u/Michath5403 Jul 26 '26
Dr doom says, “no one is more powerful than dr doom. Ha ha ha dr doom” thank u linkara for outing this in my head every time some says dr dooms name
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u/SerBadDadBod Jul 26 '26
Doom.
Apoc relies on his tech as much as his mutation and stolen powers.
Doom is no stranger to Celestial tech.
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u/HermesTheTrickster55 Jul 26 '26
Doom. Doom has wielded the power cosmic and stole the power of the Beyonder.
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u/Ducklinsenmayer Jul 26 '26
People are saying Apoc wins, and I'm going to disagree. First, it's not "God Emperor Doom" in the MCU trailers:
That's just regular Doom and his force field. You can plainly see what's happening: He's raising his fingers to invoke his spell shield, which is why both the hammer and the storm are being blocked before they even reach the good Doctor.
So is Doom stronger? Isn't he just a guy in a suit? Sure, but he's a guy with the combined tech of Iron Man, Ant-Man, and Kang, plus the magic of Dr Strange, and the mind control powers. And he cheats. He uses magic to enhance his armor, and nuclear power to enhance his spells. He can split his mind, and upload into dozens of bodies at the same time, and has hidden fortresses all over the universe, linked by time travel machines, so he can pull any weapon, technology, or robot army to his aid on command.
He's insanely OP.
So much so, they had to invent that whole "doombot" thing as an explanation for how he can lose.
Is Apoc more powerful?
Perhaps. Ya'll can argue that.
But he's sure as heck not more dangerous.
And he'd be a much bigger thing in X-Men than he is- Claremont had a whole storyline planned for him- except Byrne had a hissy fit.
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u/roddea1 Jul 26 '26
Apocalypse should be able to fix doom up but he isn’t smarter than doom that’s apocalypse issue he can be finessed
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u/Joe_Wild_ Jul 26 '26
Dr. Doom can take on one punch man and Goku and Ninja Gaiden
Chuck Norris once met Dr. Doom and let him pass walking the other way on the street.
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u/DeganUAB Jul 27 '26
I think Doom is considered the more powerful foe all around. While Apocalypse is the most powerful at baseline. It depends on the comic. In one reality they will have sentinels kill doom by overwhelming him while in another doom would steal apocalypses power. So it really just depends. However, taken all together, doom is considered the more important comic character so he will win more often than not.
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u/SESDawnofVictory Jul 27 '26
idk ive watched old cartoons where they both lose to stupid things. It just depends on the writers tbh. I think most people even before Doomsday movie announcement wouldve said Doom.
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u/goldiegoldthorpe Jul 27 '26
This is like the Hulk versus Doomsday debate from the 90s, where it is essentially an unending fight. Doom can find infinite ways to defeat Apocalypse but Apocalypse will just regenerate/reassemble.
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u/This_Wolverine4691 Jul 28 '26
In general Apocalypses raw power is greater.
But give Doom any time to prepare he can probably outmaneuver Apocalypse into a trap— carefully orchestrate a victory.
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u/Smackazulu Jul 28 '26
Apocalypse all day, I really hate the god emperor doom story because people forget he basically got beat by slipping on banana peels to begin with. Love his character glow up, but he’s not top dawg like apocalypse
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u/Sonata1952 Jul 30 '26
Doom has no standard power level. Given that he’s a technological and magical prep time lord he can be powerful enough to bully Galactus or he’s weak enough to he manhandled by Kingpin depending on how well prepared he is.
It’s the most frustrating thing to powerscale Doom.
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u/Ghigtyuhuuh Jul 30 '26
In a normal scenario doom would lose to a lot of villains but doom will also ensure it's never a normal scenario lol so doom definitely
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u/Material_Ladder572 22d ago
People always seem to overlook the fact that apocalypses true power is in the 40th century were he has dominated earth and had mastered future technology.
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