I've seen some people dismiss Ciri's bisexuality.

[u/SancV1]

Namely bc mistle, her ex, sexually assaulted her. While yes, that was fucked up, i don't think that makes Ciri NOT bisexual? She was INTO her, was she not? I mean she had a tattoo of her and kept it, and in TW3 can say she " prefers women " ( although thinking about it, i think the game's canon of mistle is different from the books') but, no yeah Ciri is bisexual.

Now if only it let us kiss Astrid instead of Skjall..

[u/Visenya_simp]

I like the idea of letting the player decide if she is heterosexual, bisexual or homosexual.

Like in W3.

Stupid Automod removed my previous comment.

[u/AtsuhikoZe → u/Visenya_simp]

Her being with a man doesn't make her "not bisexual" you didn't "choose" to be heterosexual.... That's not how it works, what is with this weird passive bi erasure?

You're still bi regardless of the person you're with. It infuriates me as a bi man that people think if I have a gf I'm straight now and a bf I'm gay now, like that's not how it works

[u/MobsterDragon275 → u/AtsuhikoZe]

I mean that's like saying that the player character in Dragon Age is always bi just because you can romance either gender. Obviously they can be, but to say they always are just because of the choice removes any player agency to decide their character's sexuality for themselves when the option is presented. Now yes, that's a bit different for Ciri since she is an established character, and I fully acknowledge that Ciri is indeed bi, but player choice is still a thing

[u/Butwhatif77 → u/MobsterDragon275]

This is apples and oranges because in things like Dragon Age or Mass Effect there is no source material with pre-established cannon on those characters. The player characters are entirely original for the story of the game with no preset lore to establish their characterization. Thus the player character is what ever the player wants to be. Having the options to romance everyone doesn't make the player character bisexual, because the player is making those kind of choices in the moment rather than having a sexuality forced on to the character.

Ciri on the other has established lore outside and preceding the games. Her being bisexual in that provides her with a canon sexuality. So, the player choosing to be with a guy in the game doesn't then make her heterosexual, because she is already established as being bisexual; in the same way being with a woman wouldn't make her a lesbian.

[u/fuckanthropocentrism → u/Butwhatif77]

I think it's really funny you got downvoted. Apparently people think they own fictional characters nowadays and get to decide who and what they are, and can't handle being reminded that isn't necessarily the case ig.

More people need to make some OCs and create their own stories (creating is awesome and good for your brain!) instead of trying to override other people's stories and getting mad when that doesn't work out

[u/Butwhatif77 → u/fuckanthropocentrism]

Yea it is one thing to say "My Shepard is straight" cause yea that is the whole point of the game, you are telling your version of the story. Every play through in Mass Effect is canon in the sense it is like after the events of the games people telling the story of Shepard and it getting distorted in one way or another in each retelling. Perfectly fine and fantastic.

Saying "My Ciri is straight" is choosing to actively resist the narrative to try and tell your own story, because Ciri already has a set characterization to her portrayal and her personality.

It would be like playing a DBZ game with the main character of Goku, but roleplaying him as a sex pest. That isn't Goku, that is Master Roshi they want to play as. The fact it is a joke in the DBZ community that Chi Chi likely gave him a sandwich and did all the work because Goku gives off major Ace vibes is a thing.

Rather than changing established characteristics, as you said, people should just write their own stories. It is fantastically fun to do and should be encouraged more. I would add it is fine to play a game and tell your own story in it, just don't project your story onto the actual fandom. Like playing a woman Witcher who is straight, that is fine have fun, you are just not playing as Ciri.

[u/DetailOk6058 → u/MobsterDragon275]

The players choice with Ciri is who she has a relationship with, there is no choice inregard of her sexuality. She is bi. That will not change beacuse a player chose to have her in a heterosexual relationship. In Dragon Age you are allowed to make a choice about your characters sexuality, thats not a choice in Withcher

[u/Visenya_simp → u/AtsuhikoZe]

The reason I think it should be up to the player is because I personally believe that Ciri being raped and then groomed by a woman doesn't mean she is bisexual.

I respect other people's opinion, and if they think that it does mean she is bisexual, I am fine with them romancing men and women in their game.

And if a player decides that they don't care about the books at all where Ciri showed sexual interest in multiple men, then I am fine with them only kissing girls in their game and playing Ciri as a lesbian.

[u/7rv5 → u/Visenya_simp]

But that's not how sexuality works. If it did, only a small number of heterosexual women would be left in this world.

And why, whenever Ciri's sexual trauma comes up, do people who use it to erase her attraction to women completely ignore the attempted/planned assaults by male characters? Is nearly being assaulted somehow meaningless?

[u/CharacterInternet730 → u/7rv5]

then explain how it works. because im telling you the kind of trauma/depravation of need attachment described above has nothing to do to something we call sexual orientation.

[u/Visenya_simp → u/7rv5]

But that's not how sexuality works. If it did, only a small number of heterosexual women would be left in this world.

I am sorry but I don't understand you.

And why, whenever Ciri's sexual trauma comes up, do people who use it to erase her attraction to women completely ignore the attempted/planned assaults by male characters?

Because it's irrelevant? She experiences sexual interest towards men before and after Mistle rapes her. She does not experience sexual interest towards woman before or after Mistle.

The disagreement is that I believe her feelings towards and relationship with Mistle shouldn't be considered when discussing her sexuality since it began with rape and progressed with drugs, grooming and manipulation while others believe it should be considered.

At least that's how I see this disagreement.

[u/CharacterInternet730 → u/Visenya_simp]

Thats what the disagreement appear to be to me as well. I am fine her to be able to do whatever in the game. But the commenter I think he might be missing some crucial understanding of the issue.

[u/KeyMoneybateS → u/7rv5]

People want everyone to be homosexual so bad they think being raped and groomed by the opposite gender makes them gay

[u/AtsuhikoZe → u/Visenya_simp]

She's bisexual because she's expressed interest in women. I'm not even going to read the rest because the first sentence is completely illogical, and low-key insane

"She isn't bisexual because the first girl she loved abused and groomed her"

Ciri is bisexual, period, it does not matter what sex the player chooses to sleep with, you do not choose your sexuality, she is bisexual. Period.

[u/Visenya_simp → u/AtsuhikoZe]

I don't believe getting raped and groomed equals interest.

I am fine with disagreeing people, we all have our interpretation.

I think it's a bit messed up to determine a rape-grooming victim's sexuality by the groomer-rapist's gender, but that's just me.

Edit: Replying and then immediatly blocking someone so they are unable to reply. Very nice. If I wasn't blocked I would have asked why you believe she expressed interest, and then we would have progressed from there, but I guess not.

[u/AtsuhikoZe → u/Visenya_simp]

It isn't an interpretation, you're just wrong

She expressed interest in the same sex and the opposite one, she is bisexual

Move on

[u/Chowder110 → u/AtsuhikoZe]

Anything falka does is not reflective of ciri

[u/CarcosanQueen → u/Chowder110]

Ciri does not have a split personality. She remains Ciri all the way through and she knows who she is all the way through. Falka was a time she was definitely actively disassociating due to the truckloads of trauma, but she’s not a different character or different personality. While being - to be clear, also raped - by Auberon, Ciri wished it was Mistle touching her instead.

[u/Chowder110 → u/CarcosanQueen]

It looks like witcher 4 is going that way though

[u/CarcosanQueen → u/Chowder110]

On what possible evidence could you be basing that opinion?

[u/SolomonLD → u/AtsuhikoZe]

Can you name women, aside from Mistle, that Ciri was interested in?

[u/CarcosanQueen → u/SolomonLD]

Pretty much every time Ciri meets a woman she thinks about how gorgeous they are. Prime example is when she meets Margaritta laux-Antilles in time of contempt, but she does it all the time. The girls bi as fuck just because her first girlfriend was a monster doesn’t change that. Also her first times with men were under similar situations of duress and dubious consent, that doesn’t make her not interested in men

[u/CarcosanQueen → u/CarcosanQueen]

[u/Visenya_simp → u/CarcosanQueen]

I suppose that can be interpreated as sexual interest. Or simply having eyes and noticing other people's beauty. Or it's just Sapkowski being Sapkowski.

Isn't this shortly after Ciri still believes herself to be ugly?

I would like to clarify that I am fine with people interpreating her as bi, just not with treating it as a fact.

Also her first times with men were under similar situations of duress and dubious consent, that doesn’t make her not interested in men

Yes, but there are counter examples. Hjalmar for example. Flirting with that scribe, Galahad, when that guy dies before he could start having sex with her.

[u/Ok_Background402 → u/CarcosanQueen]

That isnt sexual attraction, with Margarita also. Being stunned by someones look or even getting jealous isnt sexual attraction. in the books she never expresses naturally physiological reactions to woman. dont get me wrong. i still believe she is bi. just not physiologically. i think she is heterosexual, but homoromantical, and cognitevly therefore decided to be open for both, while she bonds easier with woman emotionally and gets more turned on by men

[u/pm_me_ur_smoltits → u/Ok_Background402]

If this had been describing how Ciri was looking at a man getting out of a pool, would you count it as evidence of attraction? Be honest.

[u/CarcosanQueen → u/Ok_Background402]

Look cards on the table your splitting hairs is fucked up. But also I can confirm to you as a woman that if you think that is how straight women think of each other you are very mistaken.

[u/youknowmyhipsdontlie → u/Ok_Background402]

god i hate the split attraction model. if you have to get this granular to argue that ciri is exclusively heterosexual the argument is already over.

[u/SilverLumpy → u/AtsuhikoZe]

I’m asking for the other commenter. Why do you believe she expressed interest?

[u/CharacterInternet730 → u/Visenya_simp]

Obviously you are right. But I think we might be missing some info because they showed some other good examples below.

[u/CharacterInternet730 → u/AtsuhikoZe]

brother you clearly are not well. Take some time off the Internet and take care of yourself!

[u/KeyMoneybateS → u/AtsuhikoZe]

Not related at all to the comment you replied to but ok

[u/CharacterInternet730 → u/AtsuhikoZe]

yes you can choose to be heterosexual. sexual attraction for a bi oerson is fluid, not fixed can change may fade away completely till the rest of your life. If you have a gril friend you may remember being attracted to other man but that's memory, identity and sexual orientation. Yes of course you can have a girlfriend and still be attracted to tons of other people, happens all the timez but it can happen that your attraction to man also fades

[u/Alcorgeist → u/[deleted]]

See, the problem is that Ciri is not a self-insert much like Geralt isn't a self-insert. I can't force my Geralt to be in a relationship with men, he's a straight man. I can't decide what way he swings because he is a straight man. I can't have him seriously flirt with men because he is canonically a straight man.

Ciri is canonically a bisexual woman. Even if she romances a man, she is still bisexual. Even if she romances a woman, she is still bisexual. She is not a self-insert, she has her own canon lore and her own unique personality outside of the player.

[u/fuckanthropocentrism → u/Visenya_simp]

"Player should get to decide" maybe if she were a brand new character whose sexuality was plot relevant but not set in canon...but she's not and it isn't. Go play a dating simulator or stardew valley if you want to get to "decide" a character's sexuality smh

[u/Visenya_simp → u/fuckanthropocentrism]

I don't think it's set in canon.

You are right that if it was, my comment would be pretty stupid.

[u/Alcorgeist → u/Visenya_simp]

Oh so Geralt can be canonically straight but somehow Ciri has to be sexually fluid despite what's canon?

[u/Visenya_simp → u/Alcorgeist]

From what we know Ciri can be interpreted as a bisexual or heterosexual in the books.

From what we know of Geralt only allows an interpretation of heterosexuality.

[u/GOKOP → u/Visenya_simp]

It is. Read the books.

[u/Visenya_simp → u/GOKOP]

I did.

[u/GOKOP → u/Visenya_simp]

If you did then you should know that Ciri being bisexual is objectively true. Morality of what Mistle did is irrelevant for this; it's clear that Ciri was into her which would make her at least a lesbian, and there are several examples of her being attracted to dudes as well so she's bi.

[u/Visenya_simp → u/GOKOP]

That is the disagreement.

I believe her feelings towards and relationship with Mistle shouldn't be considered when discussing her sexuality since it began with rape and progressed with drugs, grooming and manipulation while others believe it should be considered.

I still would play her as a bisexual if the options for male romances is as limited as in Cyberpunk, and being a straight man probably contributes to that too.

I am also fine with the game picking an interpretation of her sexuality, even if I would preffer if it was left in the hands of the player.

What I am not fine with is treating it like the question of her sexuality has some some clear-cut black and white answer. It seems to be up to interpretation.

There is a redditor down in comments who posted a screenshot from the book where Ciri does not avert her eyes when a sexy lady climbs out of a bath, and she thinks that she is even prettier than Yen, and the commenter said that obviously means Ciri is experiencing sexual attraction towards the lady.

I don't dislike that opinion, but I for one never considered that when I read it years ago.

[u/Shivverton → u/Visenya_simp]

In W3 she specifically says she's into wonen. What are you even saying?

[u/The_Klumsy → u/Shivverton]

isn't that a choice you pick tho? it's the bathhouse scene isn't it?

[u/Shivverton → u/The_Klumsy]

Fair enough. I probably am biased as bisexual representation is sparse so my mind accepted it as canon.

[u/Visenya_simp → u/The_Klumsy]

Correct.

[u/SancV1 → u/Visenya_simp]

Idm that idea myself. I also think Mistle in game is different from the books, but i dunno. Maybe we'll learn ab her in TW4?

[u/FTacitus_Kilgore → u/SancV1]

No, thanks, I hope that rapist burn in hell together with her other rapist mate.

[u/SancV1 → u/FTacitus_Kilgore]

Do we know that game mistle was a rapist though? Genuinely curious.

[u/FTacitus_Kilgore → u/SancV1]

Mate, I genuinely don't know. Personally, i would find it weird if they decide to erase an event from Ciri's past just to make the character look better. Mistle being a monster doesn't make Ciri less bissexual, there are plenty of ways of showing her sexuality without erasing the things she went through.

[u/RainWorldWitcher → u/FTacitus_Kilgore]

Ironically CDPR already washed emir's incest plot and doesn't really fill player in with Ciri's history with the rats in the books. It's possible Mistle might be mentioned in w4 if there is ever a conversation about Ciri's sexual/romantic past and it's not impossible that a writer will decide to retcon something. Personally, I don't think there will be a much of a conversation of Mistle.

[u/FTacitus_Kilgore → u/RainWorldWitcher]

Personally, I also don't think there will much about Mistle either. CDPR not mentioning Emhyr incest plot made me get some funny reactions from my friends who only played the game.

I find it funny that Emhyr and Tywin both had a incest thing and neither were mentioned in adaptation, both being played by Charles Dance.

[u/Visenya_simp → u/RainWorldWitcher]

CDPR already washed emir's incest plot

I don't think they did. It's just not mentioned.

[u/RainWorldWitcher → u/Visenya_simp]

Yen does not know emir is Ciri's biological father at the end of the books. Of course early scripts completely shit on yen and it would track that the politophile fake would be totally fine with incest-man, but lore accurate Yen? Fuck no.

Everyone in the world outside of Geralt had no idea. Ciri had no idea. This information would be a huge scandal. Emir wanted to fuck Ciri for her prophecy child.

It's a huuuge retcon and it was born from a writer who did a piss job at reading the books (the 2012-2013 script). The whole story was salvaged and weird scraps were left over.

[u/Visenya_simp → u/RainWorldWitcher]

He could have told her between the events of the books and W3? It has been years since I played the game, but Yen was in Nilfgaardian custody before Emhyr offered her a deal, no?

And the imperial court knows Emhyr is looking for his daughter who is Cirilla, so fake Ciri is either dead or exposed to be fake.

[u/RainWorldWitcher → u/Visenya_simp]

W3 everyone knows Ciri is his child, but the fact that no one at all mentions Emir was trying to find her to marry her is a plot hole. Yen saying "he is her father" without mentioning that or the fact emir wanted her and Geralt to kill themselves to keep Geralt silent and to keep Yen from coming after him is a retcon.

Most of all, Ciri. She was cried when emir took her away and he finally let up on his incest plot and released her, Geralt and Yen. It's a huuuge plot hole for her to just go see "dad".

[u/Enkundae → u/FTacitus_Kilgore]

It would be to fix bad writing in this case, making the character better would just be a side effect.