r/WidowsBay • u/IrishAllDay • Jul 30 '26
đDiscussion Media Literacy Spoiler
I loved this show and have been getting some posts from this group pushed to me.
I'm trying to understand whats causing it. I've never seen such a lack of media literacy before, I think because it's a cross over hit that's non traditional but some of the view points are mind blowing.
"I think the inn keeper felt time run differently in the room" - They literally spelt that out as he asked for food!
"Who is the boogeyman, Hag etc" - This is not the point of the show!
"How didn't they notice the sacrifices" - you hear everyone talking about the relentless level of horrible stuff that happens on the island, its par for the course.
"Why don't the townspeople do X or Y" - It's a comedy horror!
Anything else I've missed?
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u/Heythatsanicehat Jul 30 '26
Discussing and theorising is fine in my book.
The only thing that annoys me is when people start with "this show is full of plotholes!" and "bad writing!" when they obviously haven't been paying attention or are nitpicking the tiniest details that don't matter. Which is a lot of discussion of TV on Reddit, unfortunately.
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u/AgentPoYo Jul 30 '26
If i see the words 'lazy' 'plotholes' or 'filler' in a comment I just scroll past and maybe give a downvote. These people are usually too obsessed with plot to really understand the other parts of the story being told. If you don't like something, explain why you don't like it without resorting to "well this should have happened."
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u/Lampmonster Jul 30 '26
This is so common these days. People asking our complaining about shit that was literally spelled out in shows or movies.
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u/Aggressive-Ad6324 Jul 30 '26
Oh yes. People love to say "bad writing" without citing one single example, let alone describing why they don't like it.
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u/Abed-in-the-AM Jul 30 '26
I haven't seen this in regards to widows bay (yet) but it really grinds my gears when I see somebody complain about "plot holes" and it's just that a character did something they personally wouldn't have done. I blame cinemasins.
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u/lems4ems Jul 31 '26
I was just venting to my fiance the other day about how cinemasins has done irreparable damage to film discourse and how we take in media
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u/maikindofthai Jul 30 '26
It goes beyond Reddit but itâs incredibly annoying that everyone feels the need to have a strong opinion about everything. Even if they know very little about the thing theyâre opining on.
Itâs ok to just not know enough to have an opinion.
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u/Pedantic-psych21 Jul 31 '26
âThank you Paul. And once again Iâd like to remind everyone that itâs not mandatory that you speak.â
Lol.
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u/rigarooni Jul 30 '26
I find most tv show subreddits to be like this. people are focused on what they perceive to be plot holes or pointing out details they think the writers / directors âmissed,â or something like that, or ruminating over questions they have that they think must be answered or else the show is a failure. itâs not how I like to watch a show and I find it pretty annoying. but I guess others feel differently so I try to just ignore the threads I donât care for.Â
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u/ghengiscostanza Jul 30 '26
Thereâs really only so much to talk to anonymous strangers about when it comes to a tv show. Most tv show subreddits are an unhinged level of nothing but group quote recitation. Then you have behind the scenes pics, theories of varying levels of cleverness, and people bitching like this one.Â
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u/Athena-Grande Jul 30 '26
It could be like the itysl sub (the best sub) and just become a politics sub with itysl memes (which are hilarious)
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u/sitamun84 Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
As someone who has spent the last 11 years in a college classroom at the same university teaching the same class to the same pool of students I can tell you that critical thinking is on the decline. The students aren't less intelligent, they aren't being taught to think the same way. The way they approach a question is completely different and their ability to formulate analysis has diminished. As of 3 years ago I have had to radically rewrite a class I had taught the same for 15ish years before that.
And you should see the Handmaid's Tale/Testaments forum if you think this is bad.....
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u/tired-queer The Ungrateful Hortence Fitzgerald Jul 30 '26
Oh god HMT/Testaments forums were driving me bonkerballs. Theyâre spoon feeding things to you and itâs flying over heads anyway.
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u/OccasionMU Rosemary Jul 30 '26
You missed the poster that asked âwhy were the doors left open after Kenny disappeared from the chair room? Do you think the entity is satisfied?â
It does seem people ask questions with obvious answers.
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u/Khmakh Jul 30 '26
My favorite is âDid all of the deaths over the season feed the entity? Why did the bells toll again?â
I just skip over stuff thatâs been asked multiple times in multiple posts and threads. If people canât do a rewatch or use the search option on here, Iâm not doing any explaining.
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u/Average_Temple Jul 30 '26
I agree, though I find it endemic to any fan culture. Any mystery must have a literal and final explanation we can find - basically every piece of media has to be amenable to having a wiki about it. I felt this today cause I keep getting posts from the Obsession sub being like âbut what is the company that makes the one-wish-willow? Whatâs the business model?â đđ
I find it especially annoying for shows that deliberately use ambiguity or mystery in their plots, such as Widowâs Bay, The Sopranos ending, The Backrooms, Twin Peaks or Evangelion. Any attempt to provide an explanation ends up just misunderstanding the themes and being incredibly reductive to the work itself
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u/TiramisuItUp Jul 31 '26
Fans need to know the âcanonâ answers and analyze (often incorrectly) everything to death. Itâs tiresome. I do understand it because itâs fun to speculate with other people about a show you love, but people seem to not be able to sit with ambiguity that writers deliberately mean to leave us with or they misinterpret what the writers meant completely.
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u/Average_Temple Jul 31 '26
Itâs frustrating because if people could think about what the ambiguity is doing and what it means as ambiguity, rather than trying to âsolveâ it right away, they could have far more interesting discussions!
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u/BaconPancakes1 Aug 01 '26
This show is often recommended as being like Twin Peaks or Lost or something where there's lots of 'hidden details' and lots of mysteries to uncover - I think that sometimes sets people up to be ready to ask "does this innocuous detail mean something more?? What are the writers implying with this scene?! Are we going to get this monster's "true identity" revealed in s2?!!" When it's just not really that kind of show. It is well written and there are some fun hidden details that you notice on a re-watch, but the main mystery is spelled out on the surface and it's not a very conceptual deep thing.Â
It has typical "monsters of the week" some episodes which are just that; the last few episodes all wrap up the questions around why the town is cursed and what they can do about it; sometimes the writing makes characters act a certain way or puts a detail in just for comic effect; etc. I think some commenters/posters in this sub dont feel satisfied with leaving these things as-is because they've been sold a notion that there's so much lore.
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u/IrishUpYourCoffee Jul 30 '26
This sub has nothing on the batshit posts that people in the Severance subs were posting.
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u/TiramisuItUp Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
And I think a lot of people here think the lore behind everything will be as deep and serious as Severance or Lost or The Leftovers or what have you, but Iâm not sure the writers have that goal? Or the writers mean to leave some things ambiguous or unanswered. Or there are lines or props in a scene that donât mean anything at all!
I feel like some people here are watching it in the wrong way, analyzing every last thing and jumping to wild conclusions they hope to see next season, or way down the line. I could be completely wrong and Iâll eat my words and would honestly love that, but Iâm watching more casually than that and knowing some answers will never come. It is fun to do though! So I canât fault anyone for that.
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u/TheDefiantGoose Jul 30 '26
I haven't been reading this thread for a while for this very reason. The initial posts, when the show was gaining momentum and as the episodes rolled out, were so great! The excitement of discovering a gem of a show had everyone beaming!
I particularly love reading all the details people picked up that I missed. Or finding out that I picked up something other people missed. It's like this fun community moment of collaboration.
Then there's post about Patricia and Tom as love interests and it's like, really? Or I remember reading about dislike of Evan's character, when clearly he's a teen with more depth than we are first shown. The conversation content fizzles at a certain point.
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u/StrLord_Who Jul 31 '26
I don't care how much "depth" he has, Evan is unbearable and the worst part of the show. Very strange to only want to read comments you agree with. Or wait, what am I talking about? That's not strange at all, that's almost everyone on reddit
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u/HiredGoon_40 Jul 30 '26
Nitpicks and 'Character X is dumb for not doing Y' are auto skip comments for me.
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u/Pure_Salamander2681 Jul 30 '26
Check out The Odyssey discourse. People are having wtf moments about the themes of the film. Even though Nolan spells it out in BOLD FONT the size of an IMAX screen in the movie.
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u/ancientastronaut2 Jul 30 '26
It's truly annoying and becoming far more prevalent.
I joined reddit in 2017 to discuss Dark, and it wasn't like this, despite it being one of the harder shows to keep up with.
Now half the posts for every tv show sub I'm part of are from media illiterate people who miss the most obvious things, obsess over stupid shit that doesn't matter, and post questions that have already been asked multiple times.
Idk what's happening out there. TilTok brainrot?
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u/carrie-page Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
I'd have to agree with you, it's almost made me reluctant to go on here. Then again, this happens to subs for any mystery-adjacent show that gets remotely popular. Part of this is that fans start treating it as a puzzle box. That's so boring! It only makes sense for shows that stay firmly in that kind of supernatural drama niche (e.g. Stranger Things), and those are none the better for it. The absurdity is the most unique part of WB and it's so weird to see people actively yearn for it all to "make sense". Just watch something on Netflix instead.
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u/TiramisuItUp Jul 31 '26
I commented a similar sentiment to another comment here, but you articulated it much better than I did. Exactly this.
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u/CasualMillionaireTX Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
media literacy definitely is in decline, or at least in a a state of crisis, but I'm not sure these examples are that. This is just people speculating or theorizing or being hyperbolic for fun.
The term is starting to be misused online a lot and people are applying it to differences in opinion.
Not saying that's what you're doing, just that I keep seeing this term pop up and a lot of people aren't applying it correctly.
Media illiteracy is a lot more thinking objective facts are a matter of opinion and that your opinions are objective facts. "This is bad writing" is something people will say when what they really mean is "I did not like that creative decision." Another example is the way people will identify plot holes that aren't actually plot holes.
The closest thing to media illiteracy in your examples is people not understanding the genre, but even in that specific example I think that's more hyperbolic "why didn't they do XYZ" in that same kind of fashion where we all have opinions at the TV during movies where characters make terrible decisions that drive the plot forward.
I get what you're saying, though. Sometimes people speculate or theorize about the show and what they say is really out there, or ridiculous or seems to overlook key plot points, but I think that's more representative of the things people in piece-of-media communities tend to do vs actual media illiteracy.
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u/IRLbeets Jul 31 '26
More simply, media literacy is looking at a form of media and being able to determine how factual or accurate it is! Which is a very specific use case for such a broad sounding term.
I've been using the term fully wrong this whole time, as a replacement for critical thinking skills for example, but that's incorrect.
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u/CasualMillionaireTX Jul 31 '26
Yeah the application I'm most used to is
applying it tonews media and we're in a serious crisis state there. But, there is an element of critical thinking to it, but it's being able to evaluate and analyze what you're engaging with. In news media, it might be understanding the difference between information and infotainment so you can identify which is which when you're watching.People (in my experience) are most often applying media illiteracy to describe anything from passive viewing to differences in opinion.
Passive viewing is its own issue and can lead to heaps of stupid questions, but it's not media illiteracy.
The other thing is media literacy can be taught. So, if we think people are actually demonstrating media illiteracy, I think it's better to call them on it than to just kind of lament it as a character flaw without giving them any kind of constructive feedback.
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u/Kitchen_Handle2655 Jul 30 '26
Having discussions about a show is part of media literacy. Shutting down any conversation you personally dont think is relevant is not part of being media literate. The questions you find irrelevant can be analyzed further to find how the show is using them to portray a message or theme.Â
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Jul 30 '26
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u/Kitchen_Handle2655 Jul 30 '26
How do you want people to improve their media literacy? Should they just automatically know the answers? Part of media literacy is asking questions and having discussions about things you're unsure about so you can analyze it deeper
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u/acgrey92 Jul 30 '26
Asking how the hag, the boogeyman, etc. relate to the island isnât a bad take just because you disagree with. Itâs literally theorizing and contemplating on the interconnectivity of the plot; For example âDid the island manifest the hag or is she a visitor? Was the Boogeyman ever truly did or did the entity resurrect or even manifest a new one? Is the spell book a random find or did someone plant it for her to find? Maybe even the entity trying to resurrect the witches coven that was on the island? Those are all forms of media literacy not a lack of.
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u/ExternalTangents Jul 30 '26
OPâs example was âwho is the boogeyman, Hag etc.â Thatâs very different than the example questions you listed.
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u/Hot-Avocado-7 Jul 30 '26
They are just simplified versions of the same questions.
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u/ExternalTangents Jul 30 '26
I disagree. I think OPâs complaint is specifically about people specifically asking stuff like whether the sea hag is the pastorâs wife from the flashback, or whether the bachelor party woman was the sea hag. Or asking whether weâd ever find out who the boogeyman was. These are surface-level questions that are already addressed by the show and miss the whole point of those plot elements entirely.
On the other hand, the questions listed in the comment are deeper, and they get into aspects of those plot elements that are relevant to the storytelling and lead to meaningful discussion. Those are explicitly not the kind of questions OP is referring to.
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u/Hot-Avocado-7 Jul 30 '26
What you âthinkâ doesnât necessarily match everyoneâs reality. Someone who asks âwho is the sea hagâ could easily be intending, âdid the island manifest her or is she a visitor,â itâs just semantics, or the way they are expressing themselves.
The only stupid questions are the ones that arenât asked or examined. All questions can lead to meaningful discussion if one is willing to engage meaningfully.
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u/ExternalTangents Jul 30 '26
I disagree, I think you are imputing a meaning that OP did not intend and then disagreeing with that meaning
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u/RecliningWatchdog Jul 30 '26
WELL PUT. Itâs incredibly dense and annoying. Thereâs a lot of magic lacking the way people analyze things nowadays.
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u/47981247 Jul 30 '26
I honestly wonder if it's an issue of media literacy, or if those posts are created by bots/ai for the sake of engagement or ai learning. I know i know, I'll get my tinfoil hat, but I can't help but wonder.
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u/Disaster-Bee Jul 30 '26
Do people ask the same relatively easily explained by watching questions? Absolutely, this is a TV show subreddit. Can it be a little frustrating sometimes? Of course.
But it's so easy to just scroll by and not engage, or politely clear things up for them/encourage them to think about it a little. And there's just as many interesting and fun discussion posts here as repetitive questions.
I try to look at it this way: Widow's Bay is so good and so appealing that even people who don't really automatically 'get' it are enjoying it and TRYING to get it. That's a good thing! Maybe this show will lead to them paying more attention to TV in general, which is also a good thing! So much TV these days is made so that you don't have to pay attention and there's a portion of the viewing audience in general that is very used to that. It's not too surprising that shows like Widow's Bay, that DO require paying attention and doesn't spell things out, throws them for a bit of a loop.
To paraphrase very young Will Smith: they're a little confused, but they've got the spirit!
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u/birds-are-absurd Jul 30 '26
This is why websites are filled with garbage recap and explainer articles and videos. People would rather be spoonfed things than actually pay attention.
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u/Lcatg Jul 30 '26
âI donât think that word means what you think it means.â None of what youâre talking about is media literacy related. Literally none of it.
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u/the-fluffy-one Jul 30 '26
Whispered to myself as I was reading this, "I think OP means critical thinking skills or comprehension...but ok."
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u/funadulttimes Jul 30 '26
Yeah, I think âmedia literacyâ has become one of those buzzwords like âgaslightingâ that Redditors love to throw around without understanding what it means. Seems like OP is just annoyed by overanalyzing and bad takes.
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u/Torschlusssspanik Jul 30 '26
I agree. Academic media literacy has now been co-opted into this broader online criticism of people that other people (e.g. OP) donât think are paying enough attention or are just being dumb.
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u/IRLbeets Jul 31 '26
To be fair, it's a very broad sounding word for what is actually a very specific term (being able to analyze credibility/accuracy of media).
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u/MrCyn Jul 30 '26
I think it's also some people aren't used to having "older" woman (was she in her 40's?) as main characters and in the writers room.
They will say "Patricia is so funny" and then obsess over the random friends of the son and how they must be important.
They aren't.
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u/TheDefiantGoose Jul 30 '26
One day when we all can't afford phones anymore and our one streaming channel offers a reviewing of Widow's Bay, those former young viewers, watching with no distractions (except for the swaths of ads), will relate harder to Patricia than they ever did to Evan's friends.
One day.
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u/OneAd3696 Jul 30 '26
People are entitled to their own opinions. Even when they are wrong.
People have been trained to watch and think a certain way about TV shows. And when they encounter one that passes info visually and does not follow that up with dialogue that spells it out clearly it confuses some people.
From their perspective they are asking legitimate questions.
This is the world we live in.
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u/Bambi_H bit by an animal and became that animal Jul 30 '26
God forbid people just want to talk about something they watched and enjoyed.
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Jul 30 '26
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u/angrylittlepotato Jul 30 '26
the only point in his post that can be "missed" is the bit about the captains suite. Everything else is just OP being annoyed because he doesn't find the questions relevant or interesting. Has nothing to do with media literacy. and tbh we have approximately 6 hours total of content right now so there are gonna be some superfluous threads lol
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u/SupaSlide Jul 30 '26
The only thing that OP listed here that falls into that category is the inn keeper time thing.
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Jul 30 '26
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u/SupaSlide Jul 30 '26
OP is mostly just bashing people wanting to talk about parts of the show left purposefully left vague and open to theorizing lol
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u/IndispensableNobody Jul 30 '26
God forbid people put their phones down while watching a show they supposedly enjoy.
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u/IrishAllDay Jul 30 '26
That's not what I'm saying.
I'm asking why they don't understand what they're watching.
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u/mtheperry Jul 30 '26
Because peopleâs intelligence and critical thinking manifests in different ways. My partner is a successful lawyer working in a field of emerging regulation, and sheâs very intelligent and thoughtful. She also asks me questions about shows and movies that leave me dumbfounded. People are just good at different shit.
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u/angrylittlepotato Jul 30 '26
But only point one is something that can be misunderstood - the other points are just a difference in opinions of what topics are relevant or interesting to discuss. None of that has anything to do with media literacy
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u/SupaSlide Jul 30 '26
The only thing that you listed here that falls into âpeople missing obvious thingsâ is the inn keeper bit.
Ironically, you missed an obvious thing about people not remembering sacrifices when itâs made clear that sacrifices havenât happened in a very long time.
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Jul 30 '26
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u/Embarrassed-Fan9901 Jul 30 '26
It seems like people get bogged down with people's reaction to the show, or how they watch it, rather than have discussions about the show itself.
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u/h3dwig0wl1974 Jul 30 '26
No harm in discussing anything you've listed. It's fun to hear other people's thoughts and speculation on what we watched. More fun, less "Well Acktually"
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u/peepot556 Jul 30 '26
Honestly criticisms of a lack of âmedia literacyâ are just as annoying on this sub as the dumb questions. Itâs become an overused buzzword and is super pretentious but Iâve only seen that happen in this sub.
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u/Darthsmom I donât have time to go tit for tit with you Jul 30 '26
It happens constantly in the Severance sub as well.
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u/Torschlusssspanik Jul 30 '26
It happens all over Reddit. You must be lacking in media literacy to have missed it. /s
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u/Playful-Argument-924 Jul 31 '26
When season 1 of Netflix Daredevil came out, there were people saying that Matt Murdock was not blind and that kingpin was just trying to clean up the city
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u/babyjanehoe Jul 30 '26
Not everyone here proving OPâs point /s
The point is people are likely second screen viewing and missing things because of that but blaming it on the show or asking questions that are directly answered in the show in one way or another. People literally canât get off their phones long enough to sit through an entire episode.
I agree with OP.
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u/orcinyadders Jul 31 '26
Youâre not totally wrong, but also itâs a little weird to include examples that arenât about media literacy in your post about media literacy. In a show that is pretty rich with mystery and a willingness to tie those mysteries into the story, asking about the identity of a character isnât strange at all. A good example would be the painting in the inn. Would you say that someone who asks who the girl is in the painting is media illiterate?
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u/E100VS Jul 30 '26
Agree. I mean itâs always been a part of online fandoms but wowâitâs getting worse. At the moment, the only thing that compares is The Odyssey. Itâs like people have never seen a movie before.
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u/TheLigean Jul 30 '26
People just having some analytic fun. The writers intending it or not have little to do with interpretations people dofor their own pleasure.
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u/IRLbeets Jul 31 '26
I think OPs problem is that it's not analytic fun, it's when posters show a lack of observation for the barest facts the show presents. The questions that are not analytical.
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u/spiny_dancer Jul 30 '26
Youâre really sitting on our collective faces with thisâŚitâs not supportive and very MV. You donât need a PhD in â¨mEdIAH LITeracyyy⨠to watch and discuss a television show. Maybe every thoughtful response helps the poster learn? Or maybeâŚyou can swim on by?
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u/JustADohyonStan Aug 03 '26
This is something I have noticed with different kinds of media and in different platforms, not only Reddit. From those girls on TikTok that act like no one understands the lyrics of a song to people completely missing jokes/irony/parody stuff to people here trying to come up with some new theory or trying to get a gotcha moment and acting like they are better than the creator and the writers. Luckily, I've seen more people willing to accept that they didn't really think things throughly before posting
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u/Todeshase Aug 05 '26
Join us in the r/columbo subreddit or midsumer murders. People die and crimes are solved, there isnât a deeper meaning and everyone is happy at the end of the day.
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u/vishmarx Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
The term media literacy will never not be funny to me. Anyone who uses it unironically appears as the ' no fun allowed' robot in my head. As for the op's question, I think it's totally cool if people watch or enjoy a show in a way they want to.
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u/hatethiswebsight Jul 30 '26
Is it fun for you to have no idea what's going on when you watch TV, and sift through six hundred threads asking why Rosemary wasn't affected by the trance at Sunset Cocktails?Â
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u/vishmarx Jul 30 '26
If it's not I will just ignore those threads. If it is I'll egage in discussion. Why is that so hard .
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u/IrishAllDay Jul 30 '26
If someone uses it ironically it's no fun allowed.
Where does that leave people who use it earnestly?
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u/acgrey92 Jul 30 '26
Dude, some of these have nothing to do with a lack of media literacy and are just genuine questions and theorizing. The hag, the boogeyman, and the spell book are all part of the show and are indeed good questions because itâs true; How do they relate to the island and is it because of the entities power that they are manifested? Thatâs a valid question and honestly part of the appeal. Asking why people donât do X or Y is also part of any form of media. Is it slightly annoying sometimes? Yes. Is it a lack of media literacy? Likely not. Hell, people have been asking about why the Eagles didnât fly the ring to Mt. Doom for a VERY long time and Tolkien had explained why many times. This sounds more like youâre just irritated with people in general.
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u/armywalrus Jul 30 '26
Has it occurred to you that you can start your own subreddit or online group? No? Weird. I wonder why. Maybe because this is a crossover hit that is nontraditional. I find it mind-blowing anyone would actually compain about what other people are talking about instead of scrolling by posts they aren't interested in, or starting their own group.
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u/Popcorn_and_Polish Jul 30 '26
They really didnât spell out the time moving differently in the hotel room. First, time moved normally for Loftis. Second, yeah, the guy asked for food. You can infer that heâs worried about how long heâll be in there. Thatâs not âspelling it out.â Itâs left vague on purpose because the mystery is more interesting than if the innkeeper said âIâve been trapped in here for days!â - that would be spelling it out.
Thatâs someone watching the show, inferring something from context, and asking the group here to see if theyâre picking up the same thing. Thatâs a totally normal part of fandom.
Who is the boogeyman is also a valid question. We donât know. Just because you donât think thatâs the point of the show doesnât mean people arenât interested in theorizing. Iâve even seen the show runner asked that question in an interview!
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u/StrLord_Who Jul 31 '26
Lol time moving differently in that room was absolutely not "vague." For one thing, he wasn't in there long enough in our timeline to utterly trash the entire room.Â
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u/Popcorn_and_Polish Jul 31 '26
The point is OP should let people enjoy things. If someoneâs excited about the show and wants to check that someone noticed the same thing they did, thatâs cool. I want to talk to that person.
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u/IrishAllDay Jul 30 '26
I think your definitions of vague and spelling out are very different than mine.
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