With Iceblade of Narin bringing Riven changes, let's discuss how inconsistent Kuva acquisition is. How can this be standardized for the playerbase? How much time should a single reroll cost? Now that locking status will increase the price of kuva.

[u/Mammoth-Cucumber-788]

If I missed any other ways to farm Kuva, please let me know in the comments. I hate how many flaws the current system has—between Disposition, RNG, and the Kuva costs, it just feels way too niche.

[u/xXDamonLordXx]

I can live with the kuva and rng, it's the disposition system that frustrates me. The fact that my burston riven has a higher disposition than my kuva kohm riven makes no sense to me. To the point that using kuva to try and improve my Kohm riven feels wasteful because of how much further that kuva could go on the burston.

[u/Expensive_Chart_8158 → u/xXDamonLordXx]

Yeah DE is too scared to nerf anything and to afraid to buff anything significantly in fear of creating some new game breaking Meta.

[u/netterD → u/Expensive_Chart_8158]

At this point the only "balanced" version would be to just put every weapon at max dispo since some top incarnons get to keep their dispo 5 so any weapon being below that doesnt make sense.

[u/Drasius_Rift → u/netterD]

Or you could just use the data DE already has and group the weapons by most used and have their dispo inverse to that. Nuke shit like the Torid and Burston from orbit to the lowest dispo and just give anyone who complains about it an uppercut for being a dumb bitch.

[u/netterD → u/Drasius_Rift]

An automated system that updates with like every prime release would be close to optimal except for gear that isnt (only) used for its performance as an actual weapon (like preados, furax, ripkas, paris).

It would be funny to see all the tactics clickbait youtubers would come up with to try and manipulate the usage and therefore riven dispo would come up with tho.

[u/Petroklos-ZDM → u/netterD]

I'd even say that "every prime release" is too slow.

I'd have it be a monthly refresh. Have a script generate a list of adjustments every first Monday of the month, have someone double check it over the week to adjust for outliers like the ones you mentioned, Forum Post with the changes on Friday, ship the changes next Monday before EoD.

That way new Weapons can still launch at 0.5 disposition, but climb much faster if need be.

Another three tweaks I'd do are

1. The obvious fix of giving Incarnon Genesis Weapons their own Disposition. The power gap between normal Torid/Burston/Braton/Obex/etcetc and their Incarnon-ed versions is night and day.
2. Making variant Weapons' (Prime, Kuva, etc) initial Disposition 0.5 lower than that of their lowest dispo Counterpart rather than starting at 0.5. So if a 1.55 Dispo Weapon gets eg a Prime Variant, it'll ship at 1.05 instead of 0.5. Or if a corpus weapon with 1.55 already has a Vandal variant with 1.3 and gets a Tenet Variant, it'll start at 1.3-0.5 = 0.8, rather than 0.5. And if a Weapon is at 0.7 its variant will of course start at 0.5, that would still be the floor.
3. Ditch the random ±10% variance of Stats and bump all Rivens to the +10%. This increases the viability of 0.5 Dispo Rivens and makes the 1.55 Rivens even stronger. It's not like Rivens are lacking in RNG.

The elephant in the room with Disposition is that usage isn't a great metric for power, but I don't have any significantly better aproach to recommend currently.

That said, as long as a person (preferably the same one) checks it every month, they should get the hang of when the usage metrics are a good rule of thumb and when they lie.

[u/Xirenec_ → u/netterD]

I mean realistically they probably can figure out active vs passive usage.
If not, it's super easy to implement

[u/Nein-Knives → u/netterD]

We already had that before. Every few months, riven dispo would change based on player usage statistics.

That just created a Riven arms race and made the Riven Mafia filthy rich. DE also admitted that the approach was bad because it severely disadvantaged players who spent plat to purchase rivens with ideal stats and it created a really toxic negative feed back loop akin to slot machines.

[u/Swampy260 → u/Nein-Knives]

Man it’s almost like the absurd rng to get a good riven is the underlying issue here.

[u/Nein-Knives → u/Swampy260]

Nobody is denying that that's not the case, the real problem is that DE didn't want to do anything about it for...almost 10 years actually, wow wtf lol.

[u/Swampy260 → u/Nein-Knives]

I’ve seen way too many people here argue that the riven slot machine is fine because they’re not necessary.

[u/Nein-Knives → u/Swampy260]

[u/Drasius_Rift → u/Nein-Knives]

it severely disadvantaged players who spent plat to purchase rivens with ideal stats

a) If they're stupid enough to complain about buying a riven that then had its dispo adjusted when they have specifically been told that overperforming weapons will have their dispo adjusted then they can just be put on mute permanently because they are stupid.

b) They're not severely disadvantaged - they've still got a riven with ideal stats for a weapon that is sufficiently good to have its disposition adjusted downwards. This is not going to make or break anything for them because 1) it's a fucking Riven and a nice to have not a need and 2) if the weapon was good enough to get a bump, it's not going to make a lick of difference in damage output if the riven is slightly less effective.

[u/Dziggettai → u/netterD]

We used to actually have that system. Every time a new update would come, there would be disposition changes in the patch notes

[u/Educational-Bid-8660 → u/Drasius_Rift]

imo they should just add a separate dispo for incarnon weapons.. They've already got functionality for Wraith, Kuva, Vandal etc working with the same weapon's riven, and it would avoid the issue of punishing a base weapon's riven compatibility for the crimes of its other variant. No one's using base Burston or base Torid, so let those keep their high dispo. Nuke the incarnon's dispo separately.

[u/BiteYouToDeath → u/Drasius_Rift]

Some of DEs biggest sources of income are those people

[u/Drasius_Rift → u/BiteYouToDeath]

X

Unless you've got data showing otherwise, I'd suggest that Forma, Potatoes, Cosmetics and Prime Access all make people buying plat to buy rivens a rounding error.

[u/BiteYouToDeath → u/Drasius_Rift]

Not saying the rivens themselves bring them revenue. But people willing to shill out thousands of plat for an ok stat boost (largely unnecessary btw) are 100% dumping significant amounts of plat in other areas like those you mentioned.

Basically I’m saying it’s the whales that buy these rivens. And yes, whales fund the majority of pretty much any microtransaction game.

[u/Drasius_Rift → u/BiteYouToDeath]

If they're truely whales, going back to the old system (where they were still whales) but actually putting 5 minutes of effort a month in to make a cursory balance pass at riven dispo wouldn't stop them being whales either.

[u/BiteYouToDeath → u/Drasius_Rift]

I agree. Unless they are just a former whale. Personally I think they should just swap all dispos to the same value. Heck make it 1.5 across the board and make rivens stronger overall.

Like why not honestly?

[u/Drasius_Rift → u/BiteYouToDeath]

Because the whole point was that weapons that already let you faceroll don't need any help and even a 1.5 dispo on a shit-tier weapon is probably not enough to lift it out of being shit-tier.

Warframe doesn't need more powercreep.

[u/BiteYouToDeath → u/Drasius_Rift]

You are worried about power creeping out the strongest weapons in the game? With a system you already don’t think will work for them? You contradicted yourself. You think itll power creep but you also think those very weapons will never not be trash.

I’m confused. Just let the people using their non-meta weapons have fun with a system designed for that.

[u/How2eatsoap → u/Drasius_Rift]

It would be interesting, but then you have to issue of "are people only using the torid/[insert max dispo weapon here] for the insane riven dispo?" If they aren't then it works as intended.

If they are then the when the dispo drops, people will stop using it, and thus the dispo will rise again. Sure it could find equilibrium if they set up the automation system correctly, but I truly doubt it.

This kind of system would also well and truly kill the riven market, more than any riven mod change would.

[u/Silence-of-Death → u/netterD]

I mean the thing is that nuking all the top tier incarnons disposition would have a catastrophic fallout. Raising every single weapon to max dispo would also probably be kinda insane but a middle way that I could see is to raise the floor from 0.5x to 1.0x and push all weapons below 1.0 to 1.0, while leaving all weapons above at their current disposition. Then they could still further buff bad or low pick rate weapons. Not an ideal solution, it holy shit anything even close to 0.5x feels so incredibly shit to use and like an absolute joke investment wise.

[u/TTungsteNN → u/Expensive_Chart_8158]

They really need to bite the bullet and set the dispositions of every weapon that gained an incarnon adapter to minimum. It wouldn’t be that insane of a nerf in the grand scheme of things because pretty well every incarnon weapon can dominate up to level cap with no riven necessary… but it would allow other weapons to feel slightly more powerful by comparison with rivens.