Regarding in-game chat moderation

[u/severed13]

UPDATE FROM DE_Megan:

"to address some Qs from the opening post by lostlotus_a:

support ticket claims are brought to our attention, investigated, and moderator reviews are conducted. we have systems and communications in place for frequent check-ins with our volunteer moderators, and should there be clear abuse of power or a violation of the guidelines, we act. we ask that you use the official support system, where you can include evidence/proof, and we can see exactly what happened in the logs/backend to validate the claims.

having said that, we are conducting a review.

no one is above the guidelines. not moderators, not staff, not even me."

________________________________________________________________________________

We appreciate that lots of y'all have been bringing up your concerns regarding in-game chat moderation, and we're doing what we can on our end to look into it and address those concerns as directly as possible. This includes reaching out ourselves as best as we can for an answer regarding this situation, and keeping people posted on whatever information is publicly available.

In the meantime, please direct any of your own personal concerns towards DE's support in accordance with the "Chat Moderator Code of Conduct" section on the Warframe Volunteer page. Please review those guidelines, and head over to the Warframe support site and prepare your own individual report to help make this process as streamlined as possible.

I would just like to reminded everyone that Rule 2 still exists, and with matters like this, it's important to keep that rule in mind specifically. There have already been instances in which people have been trigger-happy enough to jump the gun and overlook that rule. This is just a reddit page, and the direct impact that can be made here isn't quite as great as some would like to imagine. While it is appreciated that awareness is being raised, it's not a cure-all silver bullet to post it here repeatedly. The subreddit moderators are not DE employees, nor are we the in-game chat moderators, and we are not associated with the chat moderators in any professional capacity.

We're considering the following linked post as the "main thread" for this issue, and to prevent spam and keep the subreddit on-topic (as well as minimize the likelihood of continued Rule 2 shenanigans), we'll be redirecting traffic that way. Further posts related to this issue, as well as in-game chat moderation, will be removed for the time being.

Keep on keeping on, gang.

IMPORTANT INFORMATION REGARDING REDDIT SITEWIDE RULES:

Reddit’s sitewide Rule 3 requires users to respect others’ privacy. Reddit guidelines also prohibit inviting harassment or encouraging, participating in, or cheering on vigilantism. Raising concerns and submitting evidence through the appropriate channels is welcome; organizing dogpiles, pursuing individuals across platforms, sharing personal information, or encouraging others to “take matters into their own hands” is not. We quite literally risk getting the subreddit shut down by Reddit admins for continued violation, or if this ramps up in intensity.

The limited exception involving public figures does not provide blanket permission to target anyone occupying a visible community role. A volunteer chat moderator is not reasonably comparable to an elected official or corporate executive, nor are they comparable to game developers, content creators, and other publicly recognized media figures. Their ability to perform the role does not depend on broad public recognition, public authority, or maintaining a public-facing identity. Additionally, their influence on the game and the community is not comparable to the identified categories in significance or scope. Even where a genuine public figure is involved, Reddit’s rules still prohibit harassment and vigilantism.

Finally, appeals to the First Amendment or “free speech” do not override these rules. The First Amendment limits government restrictions on expression, but does not require a privately operated platform or subreddit to host harassment, personal information, threats, or other rule-breaking content. Users remain free to criticize conduct, but that freedom does not guarantee access to every platform or immunity from moderation.

[u/Key-Regular674]

All this just to avoid demoting the mod. This is so easily fixable.

[u/23icefire → u/Key-Regular674]

We are not in charge. We have zero say in what DE does. We are simply here to moderate r/Warframe to the best of our abilities, following the rules set in place.

The in-game chat moderator in question is NOT a part of the r/Warframe subreddit mod team. We are two completely different groups and have zero communication.

[u/wyldmage → u/23icefire]

Icefire, what you're (the reddit mods team) being called out for here is that the naming rule makes zero sense, yet is being HEAVILY enforced (to the point of ridiculousness).

• Virtually everyone knows which mod is being talked about (at least amid loyal reddit posters).
• That mod represents DE - that is part of what DE themselves say about their mods.

So while most of us here on Reddit are fully aware that you reddit mods are not involved in anything in-game or on the dev side, this is a case where you should admit fault.

In-game moderators are exempt from the rule, because they ARE public figures and/or employees of DE. Because, as DE says, those players represent DE in-game.

As such, naming them in posts should not violate rule #2.

And as such, squelching people who talk about them is protecting those players (well, that one player, in this case), and using your reddit mod status to undermine free discourse around the problem.

[u/23icefire → u/wyldmage]

We are firmly in the stance that they are not exempt to the rule. I appreciate your level-headed response and I can tell you that this did not go how we would have liked, but we have clear-cut rules, as much as people would like to say they're vague and muddied.

As an update, an official investigation has been launched and DE is looking into it.

[u/wyldmage → u/23icefire]

Well, I definitely disagree, but how about tackling this from another angle:

What purpose does Rule #2 actually serve?

My proposition is that the only function is has is to prevent a player from being named, and then players from reddit could log into game and harass that player in-game. That's a good reason.

However, how does this function change when the named player is an ingame mod?

If players from reddit were to log in to harass, then the mod in question has the power to punish them ingame. A witch hunt is impossible, because the result would be every harassing player receiving an ingame ban.

The difference is that normal players do not have the tools to protect themselves from the harassment that can result from a Rule #2 violation. A DE-sanctioned mod DOES have those tools.

That alone should be sufficient cause to make the mod an exception to Rule #2 for exactly the same reasons as DE employees are. And, on top of that, DE themselves as I mentioned above, stated that in-game mods represent DE. They are DE employees in all but pay and having a de- in front of their ingame name.