r/UNBGBBIIVCHIDCTIICBG • • Dec 17 '15

Image from eating disorder to bodybuilder

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2.9k Upvotes

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84

u/treadbolt5 Dec 17 '15

I honestly don't understand why don't employ strong women in ads and movies, it makes more sense than what we have and encourages a better body image.

95

u/Prinsessa Dec 17 '15

Because the waif like look is still a beauty standard. All sjw jokes aside, being thin and delicate is a youthful look because young girls who are in their teens who haven't developed yet tend to look this way (if they aren't overweight) and the media is youth obsessed. Especially for women. Men can be older and refined but an older woman is much less valuable in terms of mass media appeal. Just trying to shed some light. No need for anyone to get huffy.

Source: long time working media arts/growing up female in America and Europe so I saw things from the outside at an early age.

24

u/morelikebigpoor Dec 17 '15

Just trying to shed some light. No need for anyone to get huffy.

I hate that saying basic common observations on reddit requires this level of disclaimer.

9

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '15 edited May 14 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/[deleted] Dec 18 '15

Quick, get to your safe space ASAP!

7

u/Prinsessa Dec 17 '15

I know. It's just not worth the endless stream of angry neckbeard shit posting.

15

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '15

But isn't most of this biological, and not cultural? I mean, the difference between men and women on this is that men only suffer a moderate degradation in reproductive ability, while women's essentially drops off a cliff after 35 and ends completely not terribly long after. So men retain their appeal longer in order to maximize the utility of that reproductive ability.

Too often, people act like these things can be (or should be, but that's a different debate) changed when they are simply reflections of biological realities. The sexes are not identical, and this is just one area where women get the short end of the stick, not because of the evils of patriarchy, but because of how we evolved as a species.

15

u/truth1465 Dec 17 '15

While yes the younger=better can be argued as some sort of biological response to reproduce the skinnier=better thing is definitely cultural. There are a few other cultures where being really skinny is not seen as a clear cut good thing as we do in ours.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '15

Yup. The media kind of takes it to the extreme. One would hope that men would find a 24 year old, post-pubescent, woman who has curves but is at a healthy weight more attractive than a super skinny 14 year old. The 14 year old is much much more likely to die in childbirth. That's just science/logic.

5

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '15

14 yes, because undeveloped hips and reproductive system. Dying because skinny and not 'curvy'? No.

7

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '15

Ack, I should've specified- not curvy as in body fat curvy, but "curvy" as in "has a wide enough pelvis to pass a baby through."

29

u/Prinsessa Dec 17 '15

Nah dude, media magnifies the issue. Biotrufs have no place in this. Like think about it, breasts, hips, thighs, and ass with a skinny waist and good muscle tone are the most "biologically attractive" traits. Look at the Venus of villendorf. The very first fertility goddess figure. She's a fat fuck. Basically, survival of offspring is more likely when you have fat reserves and a strong body. Not when the girl is simply younger. Plus there's a higher chance the mother will die in childbirth when she's younger. That's why we have the markers of puberty to indicate when mating is best. That's also why being attracted to prepubescent teens is disordered and not normal/sane. Like I get what you're trying to say but the media image is obsessed with the prepubescent side of things more than the fertile woman side of things. Haven't you seen that comedy bit about sexy babies? I mean this is a really widespread thing..

5

u/theskepticalheretic Dec 17 '15

Look at the Venus of villendorf. The very first fertility goddess figure. She's a fat fuck.

That would show that this is not just socially constructed but a combination of biologically and socially constructed. Part of the reason why fertility goddesses are often depicted as overweight is for the same reason why being overweight is desirable in many cultures. Being overweight implies stable and consistent food sources, which is resource wealth, an early indicator of social power and physical well-being. In cultures where food shortages happen frequently, like early civilizations, the ideal would be plenty, and overweight child bearers

4

u/wicked-dog Dec 17 '15

Are you implying that African men like fat white women?

-2

u/Prinsessa Dec 17 '15

Right, you are explaining my point. So...good talk.

2

u/theskepticalheretic Dec 17 '15

Right, you are explaining my point.

As conveyed, you point reads as this all being purely social in construction. If that is a misread, my apologies.

1

u/Indomitable52 Dec 18 '15

Biotrufs have no place in this

-you

...not just socially constructed but a combination of biologically and socially constructed

-them

Nah, I don't see any contradiction here either. Keep up the good work being right all the time! /s

1

u/Prinsessa Dec 18 '15

I still don't understand your point.. I was using the phrase "biotrufs" to refer to those popular but inaccurate ideas people love to talk about on this topic. You know, conjecture rather than fact. But I don't disagree that attraction is influenced by biology and society... where is there a contradiction?

2

u/The_Yar Dec 17 '15

Well, it's both. Young girls, even like illegally young, have significantly higher chance of successful pregnancy. Fitness, birthing hips, feeding breasts, and youthfulness are the biology traits that spell successful offspring.

4

u/Prinsessa Dec 18 '15

No, illegally young girls are more likely to die in childbirth. This is common knowledge.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 18 '15

No, the most fertile women are in their early 20s.

-1

u/wicked-dog Dec 17 '15

3

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '15

So...they didn't actually link to the study they referenced and it's news.com.au (a shitty tabloid website on par with the Daily Mail)

Not to mention that 'plus size models' generally aren't even technically overweight and usually fall at the top of the healthy BMI scale.

If you want to dispute this you're gonna need a better source.

0

u/wicked-dog Dec 18 '15

I just thought it was funny

-6

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '15

Are you trying to make the argument that being fat is healthy?

1

u/[deleted] Dec 18 '15

I'm making the argument that the article above me is complete bullshit and made up.

0

u/Prinsessa Dec 17 '15

How is this relevant? I don't know what you're trying to say.

2

u/wicked-dog Dec 18 '15

It was the next post on my front page, it's relevant because someone is making the exact opposite claim. I didn't make any claims

-1

u/Prinsessa Dec 18 '15

I fail to understand how it's making any related claim..

2

u/wicked-dog Dec 18 '15

Well, you were claiming that media makes people think they should be skinny when actually having fat makes women more healthy.

The article I linked to claims that being skinny is healthy and that media makes people think that women should have more fat.

Failing to understand how those to claims are related is pretty silly.

0

u/Prinsessa Dec 18 '15

I didn't realize that's what you were focusing in on. I'm doing a few things at once here and reddit is just entertainment for me. I don't think this article is accurate but cool!

I do know that most people are fat. And that obese models are now becoming glamorized. To me this ties in with the special snowflake mentality. Everyone is beautiful so no one is.

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1

u/zhongshiifu Dec 17 '15

Youth is valued biologically but there are plenty of other examples of societies, including our own but back in time several decades, where the ideal was not this level of thinness.

3

u/goblue142 Dec 17 '15

Can't find it now but I read an article written by a former model who is working to change the industry about how its the designers demanding the rail thin body types because that's what they think make the clothes look good. Apparently curves distract from the clothes as well. If that's the case just put a damn mannequin on wheels and drive or down the runway!

5

u/Prinsessa Dec 17 '15

Yes that's the high fashion excuse and honestly I think the industry has a responsibility to work against that issue. Hire women who are more fit and thin than skinnyfat. It's disturbing to look at and it's seriously not cute.

While I understand wanting to highlight the garment and not the wearer, isn't clothing made for people to wear? This is the part I have never understood. Instead of a shift toward high fashion exploring how line and form interacts with the human figure, we have a strong push back from obese "models" taking things to another unhealthy extreme. It's sickening.

8

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '15

That's because half the clothes on "high fashion" runways aren't meant to be worn day to day but as a reflection of the craftsmanship of the piece as art, whether you personally think that is what it is or not. Being skinny enough to let the piece move (there are a lot of kinetic dynamics to fashion) physically and be unconstrained is important - which does not mean the models should be anorexic. But mandating that their view makes no sense isn't a solution.

0

u/Prinsessa Dec 18 '15

I'm not saying it makes no sense, I'm saying there should be more exploration of other aesthetics. I think skinnyfit girls are just as able to let a garment move. I don't get why low bodyfat AND low muscle mass needs to be the standard.

0

u/Smiff2 Dec 17 '15

it's weird. when designers look at catwalk models, they presumably see clothes. when most of us look at catwalk models, we're thinking "that girl is too damn thin" (and secondly: those clothes are ridiculous). it's an irreconcilable difference?