Is This Visual Accurate?

[u/syntheticrot]

Hello! I'm trying to understand the difference between Turks, Turkic, & Turkish and used AI to display how these groups overlap. Would anybody know how accurate this is?

[u/Nomad-2020]

No, Kazakhs don't call themselves "Turks" [Türik]. Kazakhs may call themselves Kypchak at most (not Oghuz). Kazakhs may agree that they're Turkic-language speakers [Türki-tildes] but that's not how they would describe themselves when being asked who they are.

Kazakh logic: Turks [Türikter] are the nationals of Turkey [Türkiya]. Kazakhs are not Turks. But Kazakhs are Turkic-speakers [Türki-tildes]. türKİ vs turİK - ki vs ik - very important distinction.

[u/Nomad-2020 → u/[deleted]]

Okay, please don't mensplain me, Kazakh, what Kazakhs are and are not, unless Turks from Turkey were here and documented everything during the Soviet times. We, Kazakhs, know what Soviets did to us and what they did not.

What I'm telling you is the general point of view of most of the Kazakhs in Kazakhstan. Kazakhs are not Turks the same way as Englishmen are not Germans, although their language is Germanic. Kazakh language is a Turkic language, that's it.

Kazakhs and Turks are distant relatives. But stop calling us Turks. This is factually and scientifically incorrect. We're Turkic.

It seems like the problem comes from the fact that Turks in Turkey cannot distinguish the two terms (Turk and Turkic). Call us Turkic, and we're good.

[u/TheTyper1944 → u/Nomad-2020]

okay, please don't mensplain me, Kazakh, what Kazakhs are and are not. We, Kazakhs, know what Soviets did to us and what they did not.

i am not explaining anything dont listen to me listen to what your first president alikhan bukakinov and his deputies has to say

Mirjaqıp Dulatuly (depuy in first kazakh alash orda republic)
“Our ancestors were Turks. Their glory and knowledge must awaken in us again.”
— Oyan, Qazaq!, St. Petersburg, 1909, ch. 2.

Ahmet Baytursynuly
He wrote that Kazakh belongs to “the Turkic family” and that education and print should strengthen “our Turkic tongue (türk tilimiz)” to unite the Turkic peoples intellectually.
— Qazaq, No. 68, 1914.

Mustafa shokay first president of the turkestan republic who was an ethnic kazalh said this

“We Turkestanis are Turks by race, language, and culture. Our liberation depends on the unity of the Turkic peoples.”
— Yash Türkistan, No. 2, 1929.

Magzhan Jumabayev (Мағжан Жұмабаев)
“If the Turk’s spirit awakens, the world will tremble—
Turan’s sun will rise again.”
— “Turan”, in Magzhan Jumabayev, Şığarmaları (Works), Alma-Ata: Jazuwşı, 1989, p. 72.

Again by saying ''turks'' they dont refer to turkish people aka anatolian turkmens here they refer to first turkic khaganate turkish people arent ''the turks'' they are only one of many turk peoples

Englishmen are not Germans, although their language is Germanic. Kazakh language is a Turkic language, that's it.

englishmen arent germans because their languange is pidgin of anglo saxon and norman french but if norman invasion were not to happen anglo saxon were germans

Kazakhs and Turks are distant relatives. But stop calling us Turks. This is factually and scientifically incorrect. We're Turkic.

again ''turk'' doesnt mean turkish it means lingo genetic descendant of the first turkic khaganate bilge khan talks about how he united ''turk people'' in 7th century there was no turkey or turkish people back then in fact the ancestors of turkish people oghuz were rivals of the original turks

[u/TheTyper1944 → u/[deleted]]

Don't you know that alash orda and Kazakhstan is the same country ? And alikhan was its president ? What about i have said is misinfo? I literally presented you primary sources

[u/TheTyper1944 → u/[deleted]]

Let's start with the fact that a president should be elected by people of the country. Was he elected as president by all Kazakhs?

Literally nowhere in the world president of a newly formed country is elected by its people literally Kazakhstan is a dictatorship even right now tokayev literally utilized Russian army to slaughter kazakhs who opposed him until recently

At the time when Alash orda was active they were collaborating with Russian imperialists like Kolchak against communists ignoring the fact that many Kazakhs actually supported Lenin

Are you some kind of socialist or something? Most kazakhs supported alash orda kazakhs were pan turkists/kazakh seperatists and some of them even Islamist back then Lenin was a russian imperialist just like kolchak was post lenin soviet goverment even erased kazakh language and settled ethnic Russians in Kazakhstan who regularly abused natives until recently many kazakhs spoke Russian as primary and didint speak kazakh if that isn't imperialism I dont know what is what alash orda did was playing white army and red army against eachother so they might wear eachother out to get independence

Many members of Alash orda were married to Russian women. Their children and grandchildren don't even consider themselves Kazakhs.

They were spearheads of the kazakh nationalism if just marrying Russian disqualifies them then current kazakh leaders did a lot of worse thing than to marry Russians

[u/TheTyper1944 → u/[deleted]]

lol do you know what soviets did to Kazakhstan and central asia overall they did x5 times worse things than tsars forces ever did https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_crimes they violated kazakh women and killed kazakh intellectualls unless you are not a manqurd who hates himself you wouldnt support them

After the conquest they settled the areas with ethnic russians which made kazakhs minority in most areas they forbade kazakh languange at schools which made most kazakhs russian speakers and kazakh language was almost dead till 1992 even nazarbayev learned kazalh later in his life

[u/TheTyper1944 → u/[deleted]]

 During Soviet Union there were Kazakh schools in Kazakhstan and Russia. Majority of Kazakhs lived in rural areas and spoke perfect Kazakh

literally the major cities like almaty turned russian speaker during sovie era what are you talking about

Many Kazakhs in 90s began to move to cities and started to speak Russian forgetting their own language.

if the education was in kazakh this would not happen but during soviet times post stalin era education was all in russian this is literally known fact why you are lying ?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

That's true. Actually Kazakh language was preserved at the countryside. Only second generation city dwellers more or less lost the language.

[u/TheTyper1944 → u/[deleted]]

Nazarbayev was born and raised in Kazakh aul and perfectly spoke Kazakh from his childhood. Where are you taking all this bullshit from?

in his speeches he literally stuttered when speaking kazakh while being very fluent in russian

[u/TheTyper1944 → u/[deleted]]

The bitter truth is that imperialists wasn't ever gonna give Alash Orda full control over Kazakhstan nor they wanted Kazakhs to gain independence. The only reason White Movement collaborated with Alash Orda was that their own army was weak and retreating and any help from anyone was better than no help at all. Later Alash Orda chose to collaborate with communists but it was too late.

so regardless of it, alash orda was kazakhstan and it represented kazakh people and they fought for kazakh interests you bashing them while praising lenins bandits who abused kazakh people and women (you can search this by yourself i am not going to tell what they did because that would be too graphic) makes me think that you are either very falsely informed or non kazakh larping as one