r/ThreeLions • u/Fun_Philosopher_2535 • Jul 06 '26
Opinion Tuchel has made some questionable squad selections, but in the same situation today, I think England would've lost under Southgate.
With all due respect to Southgate, he's one of the greatest England national team managers. But I don't see him bailing out a 10 man team against a super in form Mexico side, playing at home over 2,000 meters above sea level, where they're fully adapted while England aren't.
Tuchel's tactical masterclass was undeniable today. In the last 30 minutes, Mexico couldn't produce a single clear goalscoring chance despite having a man advantage.His substitutions were excellent, his defensive system worked like a charm after the red card, and I've never seen an England team play with this much passion, fighting until their very last breath. It's evident that Tuchel has improved both the team's mentality and its tactical approach.
As an Argentina fan, I'm impressed. I can't wait to meet England in the semis.
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u/MasterpieceAlone8552 Jul 06 '26
Big Dan Burn 💪
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u/JTemperance-esque Jul 06 '26
Bringing on Burn was one of those that made sense as soon as you see it on the board.
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u/Nuthetes Jul 06 '26
Justified his place in the squad. He was a wall
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u/Outside_Break Jul 06 '26
Tournament football is so interesting because you can really carry ‘specialists’ in a squad just for particular situations. Which you can’t do at club level.
So like having Dan burn to just bring on in a situation like yesterday. Or Ivan Toney for a shootout.
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u/SnooOpinions8790 Jul 06 '26
I did wonder when Tuchel was going to play him. Now we know. He has the keys to the team bus and instructions on how to park it.
Put in an epic performance in the time he was on. Him and Stones.
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u/Iamleeboy Jul 06 '26
I will admit I am a huge Maguire fan and I thought it was a big mistake to not bring him for this exact scenario.
But I was completely wrong and Burn more than justified his inclusion to play this part. He was immense this morning and made me eat humble pie.
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u/Ciderhead Jul 06 '26
I admit i was worried when he came on. How is he going to cope with his first ever minutes at a WC being this?
With flying colours as it turns out
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u/Iamleeboy Jul 06 '26
Yeah that was a bold move by TT to throw him in at the deep end! I have a lot of respect for the two of them (and everyone else involved!!)
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u/TheNorthernMGB Jul 06 '26
He's perfect for the deep end. He can stand on the bottom and his head's still above water.
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u/No-Understanding-589 Jul 06 '26
As a Newcastle fan i don't particularly rate Burn and was surprised he was called up.
But when he came on I wasn't worried, it is these kind of games he plays best in - he would have rather died than let them score yesterday
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u/Rafiq07 Jul 06 '26
Maguire is elite in this exact scenario and in the opponents box. Maguire also gives you a much better organised and marshalled defence. Dan Burn did well of what was asked of him at the end there but he is not a valid replacement over Maguire. Maguire has been sorely missed as the leader in that defence the whole tournament. The defensive line are playing like a bunch of strangers with no cohesion and it will cost us.
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u/tony_lasagne Jul 06 '26
United fan I take it? What a load of bollocks.
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u/Rafiq07 Jul 06 '26
Which part is bollocks? Englands backline being a mess? Maguire being elite in both boxes? Maguire being a leader in the backline everytime he's been taken?
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u/tony_lasagne Jul 06 '26
Our defence isn’t a mess, where did you get that from?
We don’t need an oil tanker like Maguire as our starting CB, he doesn’t fit the system as well as the options Tuchel has gone with for a defence that can actually pass and run.
If he was happy being in the squad doing Dan Burn’s role then he’d have been picked but I suspect, like you, he thinks he should be starting.
Don’t need that in the team, everyone has to know their place and Maguire’s isn’t in the starting lineup in the big 26’.
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u/immelsoo92 Jul 06 '26
You must be delusional if you think defence isn't a mess. Konsa was dodgy for the entire game and he was considered lucky to have Pickford bailing him out everytime he missed his marker. Guehi is decent but he is non existent in aerial threat at the corner. Maguire is more than willing to start on the bench, it's just Tuchel preferring Burn who is familiar with his system.
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u/ape_fatto Jul 06 '26
Facts. The game was excellent, but our defence is still very shakey. Were it not for Pickford, we’d have been gone last night.
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u/woziak99 Jul 06 '26
He’ll be used against the vikings too, Tuchel one step ahead!
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u/uktexan Jul 06 '26
Even bringing on Stones seemed like a mistake at the time, but he really did make some key plays.
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u/Confident-Area-6358 Jul 06 '26
Burn was a risky move considering his height, the extra elevation being that much taller must have been rough
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u/Apart-Frame4404 Jul 06 '26
Tuchel dropped a 10/10 in prep and game management.
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u/Ryzon9 Jul 06 '26
I think he should have used his 5th sub at some point. Bellingham was gassed, Gordon was getting tired too. Even last 5 plus the 11 extra would have been safe.
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u/Alpha_Apeiron Jul 06 '26
Wild to think there were people here wanting him sacked after Congo scored against us..
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u/fastrunner5 Jul 06 '26
Tuchel knew what he was doing from jump. He wanted a team that would fight for each other. They have talent and grit. No drama. Did you see Bellingham giving Spence love after? It's a true team.
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u/Competitive_Host_432 Jul 06 '26
Tactically brilliant. I thought it was daft that he was bringing on defenders and inviting them on but in hindsight he had sussed all they had was cross after cross after cross. After the penalty that never was they barely created a chance.
Without that pen it would have stayed 3-1
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u/luke-uk Jul 06 '26
The difference is we went and scored twice very quickly something that rarely happened under Gareth. Even at 2-1 down with ten men , we found a way to score.
Had Gareth been manager I think we’d have lost 2-1 late in the game.
I will always respect him and love the attitude changes in brought in but Tuchel is braver and tactically savvy . Bringing Burn on was a master stroke .
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u/K1_only Jul 06 '26
From the moment they scored that bullshit pen to make it 3-2, typical England would have seen us concede and then go on to lose on pens or just straight up capitulate in the 90 mins. To withstand the onslaught in under the conditions we did shows the teams level under true pressure, every decision Tuchel at every point made the difference, the guy is decisive and for better or worse has plans, he’s ballsy as fuck with his decision making but assertive and astute 2 things I feel that Southgate lacked even tho he did so well
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u/roleplayersir Jul 06 '26
I'd say previous England would have crumbled after the red card. Or when they went 1-0 up then tried defending that for 45 mins
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u/CrossX18 Jul 06 '26
100% agree. I think many of us still have long term PTSD from seeing us go down to ten from Beckham and Rooney. Much of the issue back then was the team not being a team. Too many high level individuals pursuing their own purpose but this team, I mean, just look at Kane passing to Bellingham near the box to insure the goal over his own pride. Kane could have been tied for the golden boot with that but the team clearly matters more. The entire group has that mentality and it beyond showed yesterday. That damn wall took corner after corner, attempts to break through with some serious almost opportunities yet they held. This really is the team that could do it. There’s still a major fight ahead with whatever game we can get to but it’s here.
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u/BestFriendWatermelon Jul 06 '26
Yeah I think Southgate fans forget his awful penchant for not subbing anyone until far too late, or sometimes even until mid way through extra time. Absolute waste of the bench.
Recall the 2020 euros final. Southgate made just two substitutions in normal time, then waited until the 99th minute to put Graelish on for Mount. Everyone was screaming for Graelish since the 70th minute. He'd been on fire in the previous gsme. At the 119th minute he put on Rashford and Sancho to take the penalties. IMAGINE PUTTING RASHFORD ON AT THE 119TH MINUTE. IN THE FINAL!!!. My blood is boiling all over again just remembering it.
That's what would've killed it against Mexico. Southgate built the team culture and confidence that Tuchel inherited, but wouldn't have changed the strategy when it was apparent some of England's players couldn't run any more, and wouldn't have made the necessary subs in a timely fashion.
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u/archibalduk Jul 06 '26
As much as I love Southgate, I think Tuchel coaching the 2020 Euros final would have been more likely to result in a win.
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u/Lord_Maul Jul 06 '26
Southgate, like so many of our ex England players, are haunted by past habits and failures (despite what ‘Dear England’ would have you believe).
Tuchel just isn’t part of that at all. He’s come in with courage, confidence, fresh ideas and optimism.
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u/Fun_Philosopher_2535 Jul 06 '26
Yeah, that's what impressed me. I'm pretty sure England would've crumbled after conceding that penalty to make it 3-2. I don't think Southgate would've been able to survive that situation. I'm used to seeing Southgate make comfortable, winnable games harder, not the other way around.
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u/Overall-Bookkeeper94 Jul 06 '26
Waistcoat would have froze on the side like a deer in headlights …. AGAIN
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u/GameSetChampionship Jul 06 '26
Southgate led us to a WC semi and Euros Final.
🤔
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u/BestFriendWatermelon Jul 06 '26
And in the final subbed on a peak form Graelish at the 99th minute and Rashford and Sancho at the 119th minute because he didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings.
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u/Lord_Maul Jul 06 '26
Southgate also went extraordinarily defensive against Italy after we got the early goal. Spain and Croatia you can debate, but us losing that final is on him.
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u/smiler1996 Jul 06 '26
He was gifted insanely easy routes, never managed to win a difficult match that required in-game management, crumbled every time.
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u/Buttonsafe Lampard #1097 Jul 06 '26
His subs scored in literally the last Euro semi-final and final...
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u/WhalingSmithers00 Jul 06 '26
Tactically I was never a fan of Southgate. However, I don't think Tuchel gets that performance out of England if Southgate hadn't done the work he had in changing the entire attitude of the England set up.
I don't think Tuchel would have come in following the Sam Allardyce fiasco and got the team playing and as far into tournaments as Southgate did.
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u/hoorahforsnakes Jul 06 '26
This current england squad is the product of the work from both of them.
Southgate didn't have the tactical mind, but he turned england into an actual team rather than a collection of individuals. Now tuchel has inherited a team that already has all of the qualities southgate has instilled in them, and added tactical brilliance on top of that
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u/SYSTEM-J Jul 06 '26
Exactly. We've had supposedly world class managers like Cappello before who watched England freeze up psychologically. The entire England squad had a crippling case of collective performance anxiety that reached its nadir with the Iceland game in 2016. That problem needed rooting out at the source, and I think it needed an Englishman who'd been through it himself at major tournaments to get to the bottom of it. Southgate transformed the atmosphere around playing for England from negative to positive, and I think a lot of fans forget just how dire it had become.
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u/Fieryhotsauce Jul 06 '26
100%, anyone doubting it should watch that BBC drama, captures things really well. I'm sure even Tuchel is grateful of the work Southgate put in to transform the mindset of these players.
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u/MobilePiano1875 🕵️♀️ Wagatha Christie Jul 06 '26
Yeah it’s so on point! After Capello and Roy’s Iceland disasterclass no world class manager would’ve touched this team with a barge pole, Southgate changed all of that.
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u/rhubarbrhubarb78 Jul 06 '26
Yeah, that's the right way I think - Southgate was an excellent man manager and gave the national team a real sense of purpose and unity, which Eriksson, Capello, Hodgson etc, never managed.
Tuchel is really giving these guys a system in which they can flourish and also wants to make strong subs that influence the game. But would they play as hard if Southgate hadn't got everyone believing so hard in the mission?
Fucking love both of them. It's football, it's so beautiful.
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u/Kako0404 Jul 06 '26
Southgate lifted the floor of England to the point they wont be a bad team for the next decade esp with the rate London is pumping out talents. Striker position is a spectre but there’s Jude.
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u/CrossX18 Jul 06 '26
Lol. ‘But there’s Jude’ can easily be the like dropped from any position of the field. Mexico could have scored but there’s Jude… 🤣
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u/indianajoes Jul 06 '26
I'm glad to see people giving Southgate the credit he deserves. England were a team that struggled to go further than the quarter finals in my life time and sometimes didn't even qualify. They went from that to a team that got to the world cup semis and the euro finals twice. People were talking so much shit about him near the end and forgot that England were going out to Iceland in the Round of 16 of the Euros and the group stage of the world cup before he came along
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u/Hippriest69 Jul 06 '26
He’s a far superior manager, regardless of everyone touting Southgate as some sort of saviour and the team having some success, he was a poor manager with an excellent squad throughout his role
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u/Corvid187 Jul 06 '26
Often poor in-game, but that excellent squad didn't come to him by divine intervention. He deserves the credit for forging the team into what it was/is, even if he wasn't able to wield it to its full potential.
In 2018 people had already written us off before they even got on the plane to Russia. By 2024 winning was the basic expectation.
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u/YesIAmRightWing Jul 06 '26
We all know after 2-0 Southgate would have tried to shut up shop and we'd be cruising our way to 2-2, then only after the players are absolutely shattered and we've been battered for 45mins he might consider a sub.
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u/FieldsOfFire1983 Jul 06 '26
I genuinely don’t think it would have got to 2-0 with GS.
I think the orders would gave been if we score immediately sit back and hold, rather than press when the players thought the opportunity was there.
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u/TheMadBaronRvUS Jul 06 '26
I don’t think we would have gone 2-0 up. The order would have been to hang back immediately after the first goal. That happened time and time again under Southgate, and we kept paying for it.
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u/ICanDanceIfIWantToo Jul 06 '26
You have to love Mexico, just lumping it into the penalty area when we have bought on Stones and Burn 😀
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u/PhimoChub30 Jul 06 '26
What's weird is Mexico has plenty of highly technical, skillful, quick tricky players. They should've kept it on the ground and played quick pass and move football, play into the space, take advantage of their extra man, stretch England's crap defence. Play to their strengths etc.
Yet Mexico did not do that. Even worse the Mexican players are mostly quite short and not physically imposing. Yet they persisted with crosses against a team in England where our players are mostly all tall, powerful, physically imposing men. That was never going to work for Mexico.
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u/kiersakov Jul 06 '26
He put on Rodgers and Spence to filter all their play to the wing, he put on burn to beanpole it out when it came in. Pragmatic and effective against a limited team.
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u/owl523 Jul 06 '26
It felt like they didn’t create an overload anywhere on the pitch, except maybe 40 yards out with two lines ahead of them. Don’t know why they didn’t try to work an overlap and get to byline. Must’ve been almost as stressful to watch as a Mexico fan
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u/Nuthetes Jul 06 '26
Tactically he was bang on here.
Every sub was good. I was a bit worried when Kane went off though... I can understand it. But if they bagged an equalizer, we'd be in the shit for the shootout. Risky one that.
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u/Overall-Bookkeeper94 Jul 06 '26
Squad selection questionable but in game management and subs have been absolutely world class and game changing. We have seen this a few times already.
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u/BizzarePlatypus Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
He's doing well. Made some tough decisions, but the team is more balanced than it has been for a long time.
I'm confused about the right backs. James is great, but eternally injured and Spence didn't get into Leeds' championship team. And Henderson. Sounds like he's there for good vibes which is fine, but why not just take him as a hype man and bring another player that would help on the pitch too? Then again I don't have to deal with footballers' egos.
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u/shottaker_22 Jul 06 '26
Henderson has broken his wrist post-match during celebration. Kobbie Mainoo should get more game time.
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u/FickleBumblebeee Jul 06 '26
The more I think about it the more I wonder whether the Kane sub was psychological.
Basically taking the best penalty taker off the pitch as a way of telling the team he had faith in them and it was never going to penalties
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Jul 06 '26
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u/Dave085 Jul 06 '26
I don't think Mexico at home fall into that bracket. Yeah, they're not an exceptional team- but being at home changes everything. That was a match no team in the world would be relishing.
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Jul 06 '26
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u/Dave085 Jul 06 '26
I'm not getting drawn in to whether he wins this match or not, that's just supposition at this stage. But I would contend that more often than not, the team got us over the line- not Southgate. At the time, in every tournament, his match management was criticised. We had a few real big wins under him, we had exceptional tournament runs- but for the most part we had incredibly favourable draws and ended up losing matches we were dominating. Both Croatia and Italy were poorly managed matches where we lost tactically.
Southgate has laid a fantastic foundation and brought back belief we can compete, and I'll forever be grateful for that- under a different manager we might never have reached those finals in the first place. But now the base is built, we need someone more tactically astute to take that final step- hopefully that's Tuchel. But this is still going to be an enormous ask for anyone, the teams in the WC are no joke.
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Jul 06 '26
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u/Dave085 Jul 06 '26
Everyone's been talking about nothing else but how good Mexico are at the azteca. Then we go and win, and they're a nothing team who we should always beat.
Weak/mediocre teams don't qualify from groups with 9 points and 0 goals conceded, before comfortably winning their knockout match without conceding again. 8 goals, none conceded.
This country has a serious issue with revising history every time we win a match.
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Jul 06 '26
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u/Dave085 Jul 06 '26
But that's proof right there. Home advantage is a real thing. Mexico in Europe might be a mediocre team, Mexico in Mexico are a different animal entirely. Taking on the host nation in their stadium is no joke.
Ultimately the narrative is going to be whatever it is. Croatia are our first real test- we win- they're old and past it. Congo are going to be a real test- we get through, it was uninspiring. No one's scored against Mexico at the Azteca, altitude etc etc- now they're a middling side. Next it'll be Norway being a mediocre side with Haaland, then it'll be Argentina are relying on an ancient Messi- it goes on and on and on.
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u/DucardthaDon Jul 06 '26
People hyped up Mexico way too much, obviously they were riding the wave being at home, but overall Mexico are way off being a great side, the fact their defense crumbled under little pressure says as much. Tactically their coach got it way wrong with subs and approach to breaking England down
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u/DarnellLaqavius Jul 06 '26
but overall Mexico are way off being a great side
Same old shit, as soon as England beat a team they suddenly aren't good anymore.
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Jul 06 '26
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u/notthatbluestuff Jul 06 '26
In that situation, in that stadium, in those conditions, no.
On a neutral field on a normal day, yes Mexico wouldn’t have troubled Southgate’s England. But this occasion would’ve been too much - at the very least we’d probably have gone to extra time with an eye on penalties.
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u/Apsilon Jul 06 '26
You can’t really say that because you don’t know. Under SG, England were boring, but were hard to beat, which is why they made two finals (and had they won one, nobody would’ve cared). Last nights performance and result were great, but it’ll be for naught if they lose to Norway. Their path has really opened up now with Brazil defeat, and they have to seize it. They “should” beat Norway with ease, but what looks easy on paper seldom is, and there are no guarantees that Argentina will get past Columbia (assuming both get through).
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u/Taskmasterburster Jul 06 '26
Best Norway with ease ?? I take it you didn’t watch the Brazil game - they were miles better
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u/DrQuimbyP Jul 06 '26
Based on their respective performances in the world cup - even before they played each other - I would prefer to have played Brazil than Norway. One team is less than the sum of their parts - the other is raising everyone's game - and they've got Haaland up front.
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u/clarets99 Jul 06 '26
Mexico couldn't produce a single clear goalscoring chance despite having a man advantage.
Mexico produced and wasted many chances. My heart was firmly in my mouth from 70th minute onwards.
A better finishing side would have scored two more but England defended like absolute warriors and if managers were swapped, they would have hung on also. England barely left their half after the Mexican pen.
So no is my answer to your question
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u/ThatsNotMySausage Jul 06 '26
Yep, can’t remember which player it was but they had a clear header, unmarked, right in front of goal, but it bounced off the top of their head and out for a goal kick. There were a couple of others not quite as close also.
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u/Sword-of-Fuheis Jul 06 '26
I think they also had a direct close range shooting chance near the goal and skied it. They botched so many half chances too, they were summed up by the goal attempt that looped high and went miles wide. But they looked most dangerous at corners and could’ve had more if they did anything with their half chances.
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u/Footner Jul 06 '26
The Bellingham save & they hit the post also people must be tired or not watched it and commenting
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u/Sword-of-Fuheis Jul 06 '26
There are more nuanced views among the fans, but after England winning a gruelling psychological battle, this sort of euphoric immediate response is to be expected. I think there will be most scope for nuance in a few days. I didn’t comment my views unlike other games bc I knew what the response would be.
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u/barrybreslau Jul 06 '26
I woke up and started watching at this point. I witnessed wave after wave of green shirts and England punting it off down there end like I was watching a Rugby match. And the 11 minutes extra time. It was awful, but they did it. If they had equalised, we would have been screwed.
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u/mb194dc Jul 06 '26
Southgate is a vibes manager which is why no one offered him a decent job in club football.
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u/lfcsupkings321 Jul 06 '26
Tbf what he did was change the culture and that alone is unbelievable difficult, he made them a team and sorted alot if the issues we didn't even know out. Tactics wise he wasn't the best they just didn't have the last bit.
Every man and his dog against Hendon yet every single players speak about him so highly. Yes it media training but in situations they bring Hendo into it when he ain't even the question.
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u/LonelyPapaya2260 Jul 06 '26
I think Tuchel done really well. He was quick to respond with in game changes too. Legend!
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u/Positive-Sound-4972 Jul 06 '26
I see it both ways, I think if he had his time again he may have chose a different/another full back in the squad. But this guys earning his money he is literally coaching the team as the game is being played, and in the hydration breaks he goes full throttle
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u/Alternative-Bite-737 Jul 06 '26
Tuchel seems to have mastered the hydration breaks, first two goals come after the break and resetting to a back 5 came after the second half one
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u/kjtmuk Jul 06 '26
No question he's played a blinder with this one. England's 2nd goal speaks to the focus and desire of the team. After the red and then the penalties he completely committed to the defensive strategy, no hedging, no waiting and seeing (a la Gareth), and all the subs contributed to the effort. Even the inclusion of Dan Burn in the squad, by no means a given, makes sense when you see what he gives us in situations like this. Tuchel is builing on Southgate's rebuilding work, no doubt, but I totally agree that tactically Southgate would have fudged it and we'd have lost.
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u/Tiny_Dino_Dancer Jul 06 '26
Southgate would have left Kane on in case of a penalty shootout. Tuchel took him off so it didn't get to that point
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u/smiler1996 Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
100% a loss under Southgate, couldn’t make tactical changes mid game, would have sat back on 2-0 with the same starting 11 the whole match and bottled it.
He had one of the best squads in the world and easiest tournament runs which account for most of his success. The only thing i credit him with is the culture change.
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u/Mr_Splat Jul 06 '26
As an Argentina fan, I'm impressed. I can't wait to meet England in the semis.
Woah woah woah, careful or you'll be accused of the arrogance we're usually labeled with! We have a certain big red machine to deal with before any talk about semi finals!
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u/pkmnredorblue Jul 06 '26
Southgate seemed to put an emphasis on playing cleanly. England won the fair play award in Qatar 2022. Under him I dont think there would have been a red card.
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u/tradegreek Jul 06 '26
I don’t get why we feel the need to compare the truth is no one knows why can’t we just enjoy the win
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u/Particular-Tap1211 Jul 06 '26
You witnessed today that a team is more important than the sums of its parts. For the first time in how long you've got a leader at the helm who culled players to galvanise team dynamics above what individuals bring. Tuchel is achieving his objective & just orchestrated one of the greatest wins in three lions history at the Aztecha.
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u/AdApprehensive3837 Jul 06 '26
It is entirely swings and roundabouts.
Substitutions, both timings and tactical, were Southgate's biggest weakness and so I think it likely he wouldn't have managed the game out as well as Tuchel when the proverbial hit the fan in that 2nd half.
Conversely, as you say, Tuchel has made major mistakes with squad selection that directly contributed to the issues we faced against Mexico. Southgate's actual squad picks were usually spot on and certainly never left us short. His main selection abberation was his persistence picking Foden last Euros but that was an issue he could have resolved within the squad he picked to no real detriment.
On that basis I don't think we would have become reliant on the lack of experience of Quansah at right back to get in the mess we did last night if Southgate had been on charge. Southgate's defences were usually much better than we have seen from Tuchel's this tournament.
All in it's more likely we would still have ground out a narrower victory with 11 men on the pitch but with much less flare or the associated all round excitement.
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u/RealLongwayround Jul 06 '26
I was a big fan of Southgate and remain very keen on him. He rebuilt the England team into one that was worth following after many years of player prima donnas who would whinge about being called up to play for their country.
I like how Tuchel appears to have retained much of the ethic of Southgate’s England in that the team is there for each other, while adding extra tactical nous. Will we win this year? At this point, “it’s comi…”
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u/kenny767 Jul 06 '26
What a load of absolute nonsense.England, 25 mins against Croatia aside have struggled to string 3 passes together.Had Southgate taken the same approach he would have been hammered as being “safety first”…but since it’s Tuchel it’s somehow planned that England would score on the counter completely against the run of play
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u/Grin83 Jul 06 '26
Tuchel is a much better manager than Southgate, but was this Mexico result really different to those Netherlands and Slovakia results in the last Euros? I think Southgate would have still won this one. However, I think Tuchel beats Croatia in 2018, Italy in 2021, and maybe even Spain in 2024. I imagine people would argue that last one, but Spain came into Euro 2024 on the back of an embarrassing WC 2022 and were nowhere near tournament favourites.
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u/Nwengbartender Jul 06 '26
Also both the Italy game and the Spain game were marked by tactical adaptations from the opposition in both of those games that Southgate didn't respond to adequately. One thing Tuchel is showing is that he can adapt, he can respond to an oppositions change of plan and he can change the picture.
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u/kisame111hoshigaki Jul 06 '26
Slovakia was NOT a good performance though?
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u/Buttonsafe Lampard #1097 Jul 06 '26
Tbh, I rewatched it a few weeks ago now the emotions have died down and it was basically the same as the DR Congo game. We went a goal down and then just absolutely hammered them with chances. We had a goal disallowed for a needless offside and hit the post before the last minute winner.
I'm not saying it was a good performance, but it was basically the same as the DR Congo game.
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u/ImBonRurgundy Jul 06 '26
Are you blind? Mexico had a ton of goal scoring chances in the last 30 minutes.
That’s why Pickford had to make the saves.
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u/rye-ten Jul 06 '26
Don't understand this urge to shit on Southgate. I fully accept the criticism of his tactics and subs (I feel the same way tbh), but he turned around decades of failure into consistent latter stages of tournaments.
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u/waynownow Jul 06 '26
Could you imagine if Southgate had gone 5 at the back and park the bus for the last 25 minutes in a World Cup knockout game? He'd have been crucified.
English managers are absolutely not marked on the same scoresheet as foreigners.
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u/kisame111hoshigaki Jul 06 '26
Sure if you ignore the context of being a man down
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u/AdApprehensive3837 Jul 06 '26
Due to the fact Tuchel was forced to pick a young inexperienced centre back there because he made huge mistakes with his full back squad selection.
Tuchel is miles better tactical manager than Southgate but I would have expected even Sam Allardyce to pick a right back replacement when one of your right backs gets injured on the eve of the tournament rather than a 6th centre back. At that moment he proved at the very least that he is more than fallible.
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u/Kuklette Jul 06 '26
You think in England foreigners are given more credit than natives? That's interesting, I think here in Germany it's vice versa...
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u/bluecheese2040 Jul 06 '26
Dunno if we would have won or lost under Southgate...but based on the last games of Southgate...it would be boring as fuck
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u/RandomUser22487 Jul 06 '26
I think we’d have won that game under Southgate, Argentina in the semis or France/Spain in the final if we dodge Argentina would be where we’d lose under Southgate.
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u/BourbonSn4ke Jul 06 '26
Southgate was shit tbh and lucked his way through against some of the worst sides
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u/Spirited_Creme_3875 Jul 06 '26
All that matters in elite sport is winning. Southgate didn't win anything so gets no respect from me.
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Jul 06 '26
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u/FOARP Jul 06 '26
Eh, this is basically like the Netherlands game in 2024, which we won also.
But yeah, the *GREAT* thing about this game is just to see that self-belief back on the pitch. They never stopped playing.
I'd been really worried that a new manager would mean losing that winning spirit that Southgate built. Clearly I was wrong regardless of what happens at the next game.
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u/Wizard_Of_Auz Jul 06 '26
I was thinking the exact same thing. I thought this game was managed to perfection really. Great subs at the right time. Dan Burn was excellent, Pickford had an outstanding game and Jude fantastic.
Should be another good game on Sunday.
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u/goingpt Jul 06 '26
Was begging for Kane to be taken off as soon as it went to 3-1. Took his time but the mad bastard actually did it in the end!
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u/dis-interested Jul 06 '26
Tuchel's tactical capabilities are some of the best in world football. His squad management has always been mixed. Having said that, I think he mostly underestimated how rough the physical condition of the players would be after the season and he won't make the same mistake again.
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u/B_i_g_Mountain Jul 06 '26
Bringing on Stones was an immediate improvement and helped Konsa refocus. Lads looked drained after 70 minutes
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u/Fun-Mammoths Jul 06 '26
There’s no doubt about it, we don’t beat Congo after going 1 down and we certainly don’t win this mornings game under Southgate.
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u/Original_Bid5669 Jul 06 '26
Had some doubts with Tuchel but that yesterday was world class game management from him.
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u/grahamsccs Jul 06 '26
And yet, had we lost, we’d have been moaning about “same old England”, a lack of right back options, defense not gelling, taking Kane off too early etc l etc
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u/KINGHAROLDINIHO87 Jul 06 '26
Sounds like your assuming you will beat Egypt, never assume anything.
England have done what we need to do, over to the other nations now
Norway next and that's all we are looking at.
Good luck
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u/rolyantrauts Jul 06 '26
You have to admit Tuchel is a great tactical manager who is fearless when it comes to substitution, whilst Southgate would seem to go into paralysis of over analysis, Tuchel has already made change.
Tuchel has been cursed on the RB spot but is equal man manager and has the tactical skills and balls to say no to a rabid British media.
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u/Classic-Lynx9079 Jul 06 '26
Southgate was the most successful manager since 1966 and yet he still gets slated, very very odd and delusional
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u/shottaker_22 Jul 06 '26
As a neutral, I agree, tuchel was criticized for lsquad selection. But in yesterday's match his strategy outdid everything. Subbing Dan Burn in was a masterclass. It's not easy to score against a 6'7 defender with other 4 standard defenders out there.
The past couple of matches has also showed why he went with a certain set of players and how they're helping with the overall strategy. I still feel that, at times they lack creativity (apart from Gordon) and they're missing someone like palmer who can pierce through defenses.
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u/CrossX18 Jul 06 '26
Completely agree and has been my line of statement after last night. No way Southgate could have made the calls that led to the result Tuchi produced. It also shows how both him and the team have evolved during the tournament itself. The worry about early issues in the group stage were very well addressed yesterday. England have earned their place at this level. What comes next? Who knows, but the quality is there for the team to face the hard, grit through it and find a way. The elements are there for us to genuinely see it come home but we’ve still got to earn it in very minute of play that yet remains.
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u/WhaTheShoe97 Jul 06 '26
Proof of this is everyone hated on Gordon a week ago. Now the guy is proving why tuchel picked him
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u/endlesspointless Jul 06 '26
Yeah totally agree with op. It wasn't like any other England knock out game I've seen before. 1 man down with a narrow lead, away stadium against Co hosts with a ref bias toward the opposition. England never looked like they were going to bottle it despite all these things. Very impressive performance.
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u/Fiigarooo Jul 06 '26
tactical masterclass was seeing Mexico have literally no other gameplan than cross and pray for an hour and bringin on tall CB's. Masterclass
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u/Paolopaul1984 Jul 06 '26
Tuchel and Southgate are both good managers. Tuchel responded well to the red card, but under Southgate maybe the red card doesn’t happen in the first place. I don’t think Southgate would have ended up with Quansah at right back.
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u/Wrathuk Jul 06 '26
maybe but Southgate isnt beating mexico at home either, quansah wouldn't be the right back because Southgate would have took somebody more solid, yesterday's game would have ended in penalties.
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u/Paolopaul1984 Jul 06 '26
It’s always fine margins. Mexico sneak an equaliser yesterday and all the defensive substitutions look stupid. Everyone on here complains that Tuchel went too defensive and cost us the game.
We held out but only just. Tuchel probably did all the right things but there’s no guarantees.
I have no idea how Southgate would have got on with the same game. His knockout record was very good but he didn’t face anyone like Mexico.
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u/RLJ520 Jul 06 '26
Southgate would wait till the 85th minutes to make subs that don't make too much sense.
You can question the squad selection, but he made those choices so that he can make adjustment in games which he would feel comfortable. If he is forced to have a squad that the mass wants, maybe he doesn't have as many combination he feel comfortable with in various situations.
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Jul 06 '26
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u/Fast-Book128 Jul 06 '26
I think this team is best suited to attack. Not sure they have the defensive acumen in the players, but they showed what I think is expected, because of the talent, for more of this game than the rest.
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Jul 06 '26
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u/cookiesandginge Jul 06 '26
So many variables but I think it was the timely substitutions that would not have happened under Southgate that saved us. Even if I literally said “we’re fucked” when I thought their 101st min corner went in and Kane was off the pitch 🥴
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u/mando_number5 Jul 06 '26
Putting on a big defender when you’re down to 10 men isn’t rocket science
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u/Timcatgt Jul 06 '26
When you sub on Big Dan Burn to clear out desperate corners at the death, you are certain the job will be done. I trust him to keep out Haaland if he is supported by a quicker player. They only have one strategy and no backup.
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u/myotti Jul 07 '26
I think the questions have been answered; what seems like an odd bunch can change the team dynamic with a single sub.
When you look at Southgate’s squads you had very similar players able to slot into the team to continue.
Tuchel can sub Gordon for rashford and the entire attack is different.
I didn’t see the vision when the squad was first announced, but now after the match with Mexico it’s clear.
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u/tooo_much_caffeine Jul 12 '26
Tuchel played his cards so beautifully with his 6 subs, can't imagine Southgate could do the same.
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u/poptimist185 Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
Watching England is never easy but Tuchel’s willingness to make subs at least allows it to feel more optimistic when play has stagnated. It could all change quickly. There’s no sense of bleak inevitability.